>>48001
Hopefully. This EU mass censorship of the internet needs to be opposed by everyone.

>>48020

The UK is censoring its internet wonderfully on its own, it doesn't need the EU to help with that.

If the UK leaves at least it will be interesting to watch from this side of the Atlantic (at least until the economic reverberations hit us). The pound might drop in value, the Scots will vote again on leaving, if the UK wants to stay in the economic zone they'll still pay a bunch of money to the EU like Norway does and the problems the UK is facing won't simply go away and the citizens will need to look for a new scapegoat on who to blame for the problems associated with neo-liberalism. At least it will hand Cameron his ass who is a dipshit who seems to hate the shit out of anyone who lives off of wages and loves those who live off of stocks and owning tons of property.

Not to mention it will be amazing to see what Germany and France do to the UK on its way out. Will they play nice since the UK is still an important economy in the region or will they come down hard on the UK to scare anyone else from leaving.

>>48068
What a passive aggressive bitch you are.

>>48068
>Not to mention it will be amazing to see what Germany and France do to the UK on its way out. Will they play nice since the UK is still an important economy in the region or will they come down hard on the UK to scare anyone else from leaving.

My guess is the second, they can't afford any more eurosceptic parties to gain momentum, as far they can see it the gain of punishing the UK is more than the downside of losing its economy. There is also the incentive of stealing London's "financial centre of Europe" title.

I've been pretty active on social media with a remain leaning. I would be curious what you folks think about my position that if both sides are lying then the most terrible thing we can do is enact change based on false pretences.

Consider the precedence that would set for this country.

>>48086
It's weird how they don't want any Eurosceptic parties to gain more power while forcing the invasion of rapefugees and passing draconian mass censorship laws.

They are their own worst enemy.

>>48068
The UK imports considerably more from Europe than it exports, any attempt to fuck the bongs will just hurt the yuros much more than their target.

>>48088
Independence? Self-determination? Like what we as humans are supposed to do with our lives? You mean, like those kind of things? /sarcasm

I've seen much more lying with the remain people. The Brexit film actually has a lot of good points, but even if it didn't, it's better to go down with the ship as a free(er) man than live longer as a slave.

>>48100
>a free(er) man than live longer as a slave.

Britain indisputably has at least equal de facto power in the EU as any of the most powerful other nations. The EU is a system of law like any other that facilitates cooperation/trade and mediates conflict. It's not even close to slavery.

Unless of course you think all government and law is slavery, which I guess at this point you probably do.

Every fucking relevant economist and diplomatic expert agrees Brexit is a bad idea for everyone. This shit about not trusting experts has to stop -- there's a reason why we have experts, who spend years studying issues like these, in the first place.

>>48085

Your comment is insightful and moved this thread forward. Thanks keeping /news/ a shit tier board.

>>48110

>This shit about not trusting experts has to stop -- there's a reason why we have experts, who spend years studying issues like these, in the first place.

The abuse of expertise has got to stop.

There are a seemingly ever increasing number of "experts" in a wide variety of fields who don the various frocks and hang the various degrees but seem to mostly want "engage" the general public instead of advance their field. They are political wolves in academic sheep skins.

The real experts are either too busy b to address the matter. Public trust isn't a part of their work. It doesn't go in the paper, or the schematic, or whatever other artifact they produce. And if not the real experts, who can call out or cull the weak or outright frauds?

So trust and respect for a field is usurped seemingly without consequence. Public trust erodes, because the very public claims and predictions from the weak and the frauds are tested, fail, and remembered -- even if not consciously. Respect erodes because it was allowed to happen. Insert localized "bad apple spoils barrel" colloquium here.

If you're legitimately worried over trust for your field, you'll have to clean it up.

>>48202
>The real experts are either too busy b to address the matter
Are you saying that any people with proper insight into the matter have chosen to stick their heads in a hole because they're too busy with "papers" and "schematics" to try and convince their fellow countrymen to take the right decision in a vote that is virtually impossible to ignore?

"The REAL experts are hiding! The ones who are saying loud and clear that leaving the EU is a terrible idea are just the PUBLIC FAKE experts,"

Fucking poppycock and you know it.
Stop glorifying ignorance because it vaguely fits with whatever your ideology may be.

>>48068
>The UK is censoring its internet wonderfully on its own
They actually arrested the guy below, because teaching a dog the Nazi salute is illegal hate speech.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SYslEzHbpus

I think Trump's an idiot but the regressive left is fucking terrifying, if Trump is what it takes to keep this bullshit from infecting the US any more then so be it. London's mayor should spend less time bitching about Trump and more time trying to fix his own bullshit country.

>>48110
>Britain indisputably has at least equal de facto power in the EU as any of the most powerful other nations

You stupid fuck.

>>48113
The irony of this post is palpable.

Please post more passive aggression.

>>48206
So what sort of abuse did you endure as a child to make you hate yourself so much? It isn't healthy to have this much of an inferiority complex and a worship for the "superior" foreigners.

>>48110
This is an EU shill, they are all over /int/and were caught out yesterday.

I would post the archive screencaps but you can't post images on this image board. That's probably why they are trying to shill on this board.

>>48001
Since the eu is now Big Brother, fuck it.

>>48215
It's not about foreigners, freedom of movement will be virtually unchanged in the years post-Brexit if the government will want to maintain movement privileges for UK citizens in Europe (they certainly do).
Foreigners are the populist chip, because they scare people. It's about the money, and the whole point of this conversation is that ALL the economists, financial experts, etc. inside the UK and out are saying loud and clear that Brexit is a horrible idea and would likely see the pound plummet and the UK's international trading power hit an all time low.
The people pushing the hardest for Brexit are well off enough to not care about a recession they're either interested in the ideology of sovereignty (Farage) or political gain within their party (Johnson, Gove). The fate of UK citizens does not concern them.

>>48233
I hope you enjoy your 30 pieces of silver.

>>48241
Please save the irrelevant one line zingers for /b/

It's great how Great Britain always seems to fuck off when things go less than perfect

>>48233
>Giving away SOVEREIGNTY
>for muh econoomy,muh 0,10$ cheaper bread and sweets
Jesus fucking,kill yourself

Also
>2016
>economists being right about ANYTHING,ever
pick one and only one

Economists are fucking useless,accountability has higher worth than their entire Ph.Ds in economy

>>48251
Freedom of law (something that the UK has in the grand majority of cases, and only really forfeits when it comes to trade definitions) is important. But idolizing complete independence from other nations is to pretend globalization doesn't exist. Brexit is effectively a step (or an attempted step) back to a time before commercial travel and the internet.
It's a silly statement in all and non of Brexit's pushers have put forward tangible benefits (that aren't £135m-sized falsehoods).

In any case, you can't trivialise "economy" by prefixing it with "muh". And yes, I would trust the word of career economists millennia before career politicians when it comes to the economy.

>>48246
I'm glad that you admit defeat with that post.

>>48251
>Actually humouring the EU shills

You are voting to leave, I am voting to leave and there is nothing they can do about it so they can just stew in their own impotence.

>>48254
I just ticked leave on my postal vote thanks to you.

>>48254
Globalisation is a cancer and should be stopped.

>>48275
To admit defeat would imply that the guy I replied to made some kind of coherent argument. He didn't.
I genuinely mean it when I say that it's disappointing to see people clearly passionate about their country unable to string 2 sentences together because they think they will get more attention via ad hominem and meme spouting. It doesn't have to be that way, if people put their point forward legibly, then people will read it, and eventually respond with their genuine views.
Lurkers, posters, it doesn't matter. Talking like a human instead of a meme machine will get you noticed.

>>48282
It's nice that I motivated someone out there to do what they believe is right. What I said is only my interpretation of the situation in the UK, and you don't have to respect it simply for existing.
Let me just mention that the pound sterling is already slipping against the dollar
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/pound-plummets-against-dollar-as-polls-suggest-brexit-and-cameron-warns-of-economic-bomb-a7067541.html
because people are losing faith in the UK's ability to be relevant when it comes to trade

I don't intend to sway people outright, but to let them know what the other side of the coin is when otherwise there would be little else than back-patting and circlejerking.

I'm not trying to astroturf or tell you what to think, and /pol/ related discussion isn't why I started browsing this site. However I do love my country and I want to at least try to get people to read the other side and, even better, articulate why they think the other side is wrong.
I hope you agree it's better than festering discussion with only one type of opinion, and only single-sentence "gotcha"s in place of argument.

>>48283
Even if you genuinely believe that, perhaps for some environmental or nationalistic reason, I can assure you that if nobody has come close to stopping or decelerating globalisation since the New World was discovered or since the Silk Road was established, I see literally zero reason to believe that the UK sticking its head in the proverbial mud would slow it down in any sense of the the word.
It would only mean that UK misses out on the benefits of the vast global network it itself had a major role in establishing, and has reaped the rewards from.

>>48287
They can at least put a brake on the EU's totalitarian power creep and wake people up to the downsides of centralisation and globalisation.

>>48085

He is right, you know

>>48289
Downsides like what? Economically developed countries only stand to gain from globalisation. Unless you primary concern is the welfare of Chinese factory workers, in which case, bless your bleeding heart.
And of there is an overwhelming problem that the UK citizenship has with the EU they have yet to properly articulate it. EU subsidiaries have kept UK farms afloat for decades and EU guidelines have supported workers unions for decades.
A vague sense of losing control (which I've yet to be convinced of) to the EU isn't justification to leave the table completely and forfeit everything that has been built. On the contrary, it's incentive to pressure our leaders into negotiation.
The UK in the EU has a veto and our leader should be pressured to use it once in a while, lest we leave and be like Norway who is still at the whims of EU policy and STILL has to pay into the system, purely because it's geographically and economically inevitable, but has no voice at the table.
It's a sorry fate and there is no point in risking it when the UK stands to gain little more than a badge that says "I quit".

>>48096
But the point is that they might be willing to take that hit, because it'll still damage the UK as well (they have to start paying more to import things, creating a drag on the economy) which will still scare off euroskeptic movements.

>>48292
Go and fuck yourself.

>>48298
Why in gods name would they want anything to do with people that petty? If anything that is exactly why they should leave that nest of vipers.

>>48294
Yeah fuck sovereignty, I too enjoy the pleasures of cuckoldry.

>>48315
not him, but sovereignty is a quaint idea, now a days a state is beholden to the global market, no country is self sufficient, and political decisions can have local and global repercussions, not that it will stop people from leveraging the idea for personal gain.

>>48351
That's circular reasoning. Sovereignty is stupid because we're increasingly globalised. So you should give up more sovereignty so you can become more globalised? How can you not see how stupid that sounds?

>>48479
you've yet to tell anyone why globalisation is a bad thing for a first-world country like the UK

It also must be emphasized that there is no reason to associate EU membership with a loss of sovereignty. How has or does the EU lessen the UK's sovereignty in a manner different from any other alliance, treaty or pact?

>>48494
via the creation of EU laws and guidelines that the UK government has no say in, created by judges that they did not elect

>>48286
You're a braver man than I for trying to have a reasonable discussion on 4chan.
If you want to engage with people you would be better off doing it in almost any other way.

>>48494
People who post the exact same things after being answered hundreds of times already are nothing but shills, like this post, this is an EU shill.

They were confirmed to post on /int/ a few days ago thanks to the archive and them being the laziest shills around.

>>48001
[USER WAS JAILED FOR THIS POST IN VIOLATION OF EU THOUGHT CRIME CODE]

>>48287
>proverbial head in the mud
Im sick and tired of these stupid "gotcha" phrases being used instead of facts. All you fucks do is appeal to authority fallacy nonstop and then you wonder why you cant convince anyone. Pathetic.

>>48110
>>48110
Wow what a brainwashed nob you are

>>48206
Fuck off and die goebbels.

>>49615
It's a shorter way of saying "The UK will be unable to have any input into EU decisions that will affect the country whether they like it or not, due to their geographical and economical relations with the countries of the EU keeping them intrinsically tied to the establishment whether they are a member of it or not". I'm sorry you didn't take the time to parse that.

>>49615
The other person is an EU shill just doing the usual shame tactics, like the first reply he gave you, hilariously pathetic.

What's the most recent poll?

>>49615
An appeal to expertise is not the same as an appeal to authority.
To call out a fallacy where it doesn't exist only weakens your argument. Instead of searching for flaws in the style of argument, try to address the points of the issue.

>>49699
http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-eu-referendum-36271589

>>49718
There is nothing to refute, you EU shills post nothing but fallacies and get called out on them. Case closed.

>>49807
But we both know that merely pointing out fallacies all day (whether they are there or not) does not help in proving the counterargument wrong.
Since you like fallacies, I'll point out your own https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argument_from_fallacy

>>48220
Jesus Christ, just post a link to an imgur album or something

There are so many possible ways around the image ban and you idiots never do it, as if your anonymous comment holds some kind of clout. It's not fucking hard.

>>48233
>ALL the economists, financial experts, etc. inside the UK and out are saying loud and clear that Brexit is a horrible idea

Funny how these experts can't seem to predict the constant financial fuck-ups within the last ten years.

Fuck your Appeal To Authority.

>>48294
>Economically developed countries only stand to gain from globalisation.

Really? Because every interaction with Europe and America has fucked over developing nations more and more and more as they just rip their pound of flesh from people who can barely afford to grow a fucking yam.

Unless you mean a Chinese dominated globalism, because at least they're building some infrastructure in Africa, unlike Westerners who just flood Africa with free food to get their Feelgoods, meanwhile pricing the last remaining farmers out of business because they can't afford to compete with ABSOLUTELY FREE!

>>50126
why do you care about developing nations?

>>50128
I don't, but when you claim that entities destroying them are actually benefiting them, you better believe I care about calling out your stupidity.

>>50131
the post said
>Economically developed countries only stand to gain from globalisation
>developed
not developing
learn to read before running your mouth

>>50126
>a Chinese dominated globalism, because at least they're building some infrastructure in Africa

Yeah the west built all of the infrastructure that they allowed to decay to the point that the Chinese have to rebuild it.

Le happy Chinese imperialist calls the Africans out on it in Empire of dust.

>>48202
non academic spotted

>>48251
>>48251
>Economists are fucking useless
i'm pro-brexit, but jesus christ what a stupid opinion to have
That's like saying physicists are useless at physics
the world is such a complicated place, of course they're wrong a lot of the time, but that doesn't mean we should discount their opinions (and take the word of some anon on the internet)

>>48220
Just read the same post on Reddit. Defo an EU shill. Also will shill for money.

>>52522
link?

>>52522
I'm not even surprised. I just want the Brexit vote to hurry up so they all fuck off.

>>52527
He's bullshitting.

Burger here, I thought it would be heavily onesided. Is it actually that evenly split?

Do people even discuss the pros and cons calmly, or is it mostly shouting and avoidance of people you don't like?

>>52571
Leave side acts like it will sharply reduce immigration within years and stop cheap labour from entering the country. As well as start a new age of independence for the UK where the government will make all the right decisions for the country that the EU failed to. They also argue that the money put into the EU for subsidiaries and trade deals could be better spent internally.

Remain side acts like there will be a crash in the economy and an immediate lack of interest from foreign investors, as well as decades of rebuilding a comfortable trade network with the rest of the world. They also argue that the UK will be affected by EU policy anyway because of how economically linked they are to other EU countries, so they might as well stay in the EU and have a veto on those policies.

I've tried to summarise both views in the nicest terms. But in reality, discussion isn't calm. There's lots of exaggeration and lying from both camps.

>>48206
> This.

Leaving the EU is one of the stupidest ideas that has ever been floated because there are literally no good reasons to do it, and the Brexit campaign has had to resort to flat out lying just to scare people into voting with them.

Virtually every expert across science, industry, economic and politics had sais leaving is net bad for the UK.

>>52573
Thank you for that informative reply. Honestly I think Leave might be the better idea, but it would require a lot of work. People seem to think leaving will magically solve all problems, when it would be more like a stepping stone. EU definitely needs a reality check.

>>52567
Shill.

>>52576
Here is your (you).

>>52573
The most objective post i've read about this issue on 4chan. Thank you based anon.

>>52573
Looks like the UK picked a side
It's a bit early to tell, but I think they fucked it