What bike would /n/ recommend for a 240 lb ish rider looking to commute daily around 8 km to work and then back home again?
Pic (possibly) related
>>928557
Buy something with an actual warranty.
>>928557
LHTs make for a good commuter. My 2005 frame has been suffering under my 115kg for years without complaint. For 16km a day though, you could really get away with many solutions.
Let us dispel this fiction, this poster knows exactly what he is doing. He is systematically fucking up new bikers by implying people unironically recommend Surly.
Surly is garbage.
Rigid 90's MTB with slicks, 8km is not terrible far and does not require a fancy bike to arrive
Also 26" wheels will work better for 240lb especially 36 spoke wheels
>>928567
Why are Surlys so bad?
OP here
>>928568
>Overpriced
>3 year warranty
>Better options in price range from other companies (with lifetime warranty because this is 100% common with any quality manufacturer)
>>928560
This guy said it too
>>697699
This guy too and makes a valid point about the warranty claims
Most manufacturers offer lifetime warranty and still have a small amount frames that actually go in for warranty repair (Small amount when compared to how many frames were sold by said manufacturer)
Surly (much smaller company, much smaller clientbase) has a lot more warranty claims than competitors and if you understand that these failures/defects have to happen within 3 years for an actual warranty claim to happen
Surlys fail more often than other bike manufacturers, those other bike manufacturers give you a lifetime warranty too in case the frame does fail, ever. Surly hopes that it fails right outside of the warranty so they can make profit off another bike sale and to avoid an even higher number of warranty claims
>>928568
Poor component selection, which works, but is basically the minimum level of adequacy, except the rear derailer, because if you put a bling derailer on it it is suddenly a XT level bike. If you don't need the quirks, like 26" wheels, or you don't have a need for their specific version of touring geometry, it's expensive for a bike as a generic-durable-touring-bike, compared to other similar offerings. It also has a relatively high failure rate and short warranty. Surly reports a warranty rate of ~1% despite only having a 3 year warranty, and they are not liberal about warranties at all and will generally find a reason to reject it. You might not realize it, but the marketing is atrocious hipster fuckwit shit. They appear on the surface to have very little marketing, and go by word of mouth. The problem is they're actually fairly active in getting their word of mouth out there, so they can appear to have a low marketing presence, but you actually pay the same marketing name brand mark up as major brands. You can check out their 'spews' blog and realize Surly shills say the exact same things, and they've created a cult of surly, just like Grant Petersen did with BOB and later Riv to justify his ass backwards designs. You realize they're full of bullshit when they refuse to put a kickstand plate on because they're too cool for kickstands, and a kickstand plate would supposedly damage the weak thin tubing on their weight optimized frame which is actually heavy as ass and in general their justification for not having a kickstand plate is because they don't like kickstands.
>>928573
And here's the blog post on kickstands
http://surlybikes.com/info_hole/spew/kickstands_on_long_haul_truckers
>Occasionally we hear from someone who has installed a kickstand on their Long Haul Trucker and crushed the chainstays.
Not having a kickstand plate causes damage to the bike.
>If they had asked us before they installed it we would have led off with the self evident advice that a bike which is lying down can’t fall over.
Because un/loading panniers (it's fucking touring) makes a lot of sense with the bike sideways and on top of one of the bags.
> But we know there are times a kickstand is a pretty nice thing to have, like when you have a heavy, loaded touring bike.
Oh, like the LHT, which is what the blog post is about entitled "Kickstands On Long Haul Truckers"
> This is because the chainstay tube walls are not super thick. You can crush them or flex them to death. The LHT chainstays were chosen to optimize the strength-to-weight ratio for the task at hand --hauling gear various distances-- while minimizing unwanted torsional flex in the rear triangle.
Suddenly the LHT is a weight weenies bike with super delicate chainstays, despite being being atrociously heavy and using thick generic steel.
>Thicker stays could be used, of course, but there would be a performance penalty, and we are not willing to sacrifice ride quality for the sometime-convenience of a kickstand.
And now suddenly, it goes from optimizing high stiffness, which needs thicker stays, to ride quality as an excuse, not that you would notice the difference in ride quality anyways
>Why don’t we just add one of those kickstand mounting plates under the stays? Because those plates introduce more weld heat to an already sensitive area, meaning we'd likely have to go to thicker walled stays
Because it simply replaces the chainstay bridge, which is an absolute requirement for mounting fenders, and now we pretend the LHT is a super delicate weight weenie bike.
>>928577
>And anyway they're fugly.
Here's the real answer. A tiny plate with a hole in it is uglier than a tiny tube with a hole in it, in a place on the bottom of the bike hidden away behind the crankset and wheel where you can't see it.
>Some people prefer rear mounting kickstands which usually clamp around the non-driveside seat- and chainstays. They won't work, sorry. This type do not work on most Long Haul Truckers because of the placement of the spare spoke holder in conjunction with the shape of our proprietary dropout.
Also we will deliberately fuck you over if you want a kickstand workaround because fuck kickstands
>What happened instead was that it brought a spate of alarmed emails ranging from anger over our anti-kickstand stance (we're anti-kickstand? I don't recall saying that)
But guys, we aren't anti-kickstand I never said that
> If none of this suits you, then our answer must be: Forget it. DON'T use a kickstand unless you know exactly what you're doing.
KICKSTANDS ARE FOR EXPERIENCED CYCLISTS ONLY
> This is never a good conversation –for you or us—but almost no one thinks that installing a kickstand is worth asking about beforehand, so most people contact us only after they have just destroyed their frame.
IF YOU DAMAGE YOUR BIKE WITH A KICKSTAND WARRANTY VOIDED
>>928571
QBP is pretty big.
Also behold the hideous kickstand plate on sister-brand Civia's (also QBP) bike which seems to have no problem welding one on.
>>928580
Forgot my pic
>>928568
Because Surly sells to people who actually ride, whereas trek/spesh/cdale/etc sell to weekend warriors. So when something goes bad, it seems like a high percentage of Surly bikes have problems, whereas in fact it's because those bikes are actually getting used, which, shockingly, is when a bike can develop problems.
The vast majority of treks and so on get used twice a year when it's nice out. And when something does go bad, the user isn't smart enough to use the internet and bitch about it
>>928585
Surly rejects warranty claims if you "actually use" your bike
> It applies to the original owner only and covers manufacturing defects only - not horseplay, racing, crashing, or other unauthorized tomfoolery.
It only covers manufacturing defects on bikes ridden in "authorized" ways. The abused bikes from people who "actually use" their bikes are rejected, just like race bikes are not warrantied if raced. So "actual use" doesn't count against Surly warranty rates.
>>928587
>buying a heavy steel touring bike with barcons and discs for racing
Yes this is Surly a realistic scenario
Are you one of those people who buys a laser thin Japanese chef knife, uses it as a hammer, and then bitches on the internet about chipping?
>>928585
>My favorite meme company has higher rates of failure and lower rates of backing up its products than its competition
>Heh...must be because we're such real riders. Reel like our steel breh, git fucking gud like us
You've got to hand it to them, the folks over at Surly are fucking marketing wizards. The spell they've got their customers under is astonishing.
>>928589
Can you actually read or do you suffer from brain damage like most Surly owners?
Wow surly is truly a memebike
>>928601
I don't own a Surly, I just think it's hilarious how a few people on /n/ rage so hard at them, and it pleases me to watch you have a nervous breakdown when someone points out how unreasonable you're being
>>928568
They aren't. Surlys are great. They aren't fast or playful, but they're durable and can handle pretty much anything. Great commuters.
>>928557
look at the Fuji touring - it's pretty much on par with the LHT but considerably cheaper.
>>928557
LHT is over priced.
Fuji makes a good steel framed bike like that. For about half the price.
>>928610
So you project that Surlys are raced because lel trolling?
Surly would probably say you raced it if you rode it on a sportive or a brevet.
>>928557
Best bet is a 26' rigid MTB set up w/ 36-spoke wheels & semi-slick tires, upright (not flat) handlebar, sprung saddle, and full fenders.
>>928631
>So you project that Surlys are raced because lel trolling?
Please go back to meme school because that phrase doesn't actually make sense
>Surly would probably say you raced it if you rode it on a sportive or a brevet.
Surly would probably come to your house and kick ur dog lmao surly is teh suxx0rz (holds up spork)
>>928643
>>buying a heavy steel touring bike with barcons and discs for racing
That's what you said.
>>928653
You implied people buy such bikes for racing and are frequently denied "warranty claims" (I guess you confused "crash replacement program" for "warranty")
>>928657
No I didn't you illiterate fuck.
>>928663
>just like race bikes are not warrantied if raced
>just like
>race bikes
You are illiterate.
>>928665
So what are you saying then? Either you think that Surly should offer a ridiculously generous "warranty" that encompasses damage from stunt riding, racing, and so on, or you think that their definition of reasonable use is actually unreasonable.
Actual use for a commuter = commuting. Not "getting into a huge pileup in muh sportive which is not technically a race because I wasn't trying to get first place pls gieb free bike plox"
>>928670
The LHT is not a commuting bike, not do you seem to have any understanding of how things work. The no racing provision lets a manufacturer get out of honoring their warranty for "people that actually ride(race)" even if the damage was caused by a defect, not a crash.
You must own a surly to be this retarded.
>>928672
>he actually thinks most people buy LHTs for riding across Uzbekistan while blogging
I bet you think most people on fixies are actual bike messengers too
>>928674
>surly owners actually ride
>surly owners actually dont ride
>hurrrrr
Actually I believe that most Surly owners don't ride much contrary to your prior assertions. That being said, it's marketed as a touring bike.
>>928677
Touring bikes are commuters. It amazes me that someone who knows just enough about bikes to know what a sportive is (although not enough to know the difference between a crash replacement program and a warranty) takes marketing euphemisms at face value.
But sure, let's say credit card touring is actually what most LHTs are used for, and your bizarro world is real. Oh wait, I guess then we'd have to accept that doing BMX style flips at the skate park is "reasonable use".
>>928679
>Touring bikes are commuters.
No they aren't, and the CC and Stragler are marketed as commuters in addition to whatever shit they're also marketed as.
>t amazes me that someone who knows just enough about bikes to know what a sportive is (although not enough to know the difference between a crash replacement program and a warranty)
You're the moron projecting about crashing.
>takes marketing euphemisms at face value.
You wat.
>But sure, let's say credit card touring is actually what most LHTs are used for, and your bizarro world is real.
It's a loaded touring bike, not a CC touring bike. There's nothing stopping people from using it as a CC bike, but it's designed as a loaded touring bike.
> Oh wait, I guess then we'd have to accept that doing BMX style flips at the skate park is "reasonable use".
Surly's warranty exclusions are unnecessarily vague, in addition they tend to be very bad at honoring their warranty, which is short. You made the claim that Surly had a short warranty and high apparent warranty rate because they were actually used, and now you're backpedaling the fuck back from that, saying most Surly owners don't actually ride, and they just commute, and blathering on about crash replacement and flips.
You must be trolling at this point, and purposefully trying to be wrong in every way possible as bait.
>>928573
Not defending Surly--what have you got against Riv bikes? Ass backwards designs? So? The bicycle is an ass backward movement in transportation period. The 'safety bicycle' design is old-as-fuck, so why do you still ride it? Go ride a recumbent, trekfag.
>>928681
I didn't make any claims about whether Surly's warranty was long or short, that's either you or someone else. Please remember that on an anonymous image board, it's easy to confuse different posters. The person who was claiming that it was too short of a warranty was someone who hates Surly. I don't have any personal feelings on Surly one way or the other, besides finding it amusing how people rage about it on /n/.
I said if they have a higher rate of claims it's because they're used, which would make sense given that their marketing purpose ("touring") is pretty similar in real life to their actual purpose (commuting), unlike certain other brands where some fat guy buys into a fantasy of barreling down mountains all the time, but in fact just rolls slowly around the park on his knobbies twice a year.
Any manufacturing defects in a product that actually gets used are almost certain to become obvious within a year or two. Three is already approaching the point where failures due to normal wear and tear are going to be the main issue.
>>928685
>Any manufacturing defects in a product that actually gets used are almost certain to become obvious within a year or two.
Not on steel, no
> Three is already approaching the point where failures due to normal wear and tear are going to be the main issue.
Which explains why everyone else can give lifetime warranties on metal frames
>>928621
Seconding this. The Fuji Touring is a no-nonsense. off-the-shelf, ready-to-use touring and commuting bike. The price is nice. If you have a Performance Bike shop near you, take advantage of the free shit they offer.
>>928632
Bumping my own post for OP's benefit
>>928621
yeah the Fuji is a seriously good value
my favorite off the shelf touring bike is the Novara Safari, because it has decent dick braeks, dat trekking bar, fatass tires for shitass roads and trails, and is well-built. for about $1.1K that's not bad. I wish it had thru axles though.
>>928557
>Bars level (possibly even higher) than saddle
Oh sweet Lord no.
Buy a hybrid with compact gearing to get your fat arse up hills.
Take it from me, I was 242lbs not but a few months ago.
>>928749
I'm sure having all those hand positions is great for touring but having the brakes and gears in the same place as a flat bar really puts me off a trekking bar.
>>928756
Why the fuck should a commuter bike have slammd stemz yo? Please be trolling.
>>928573
what's the matter?
did a surly fuck your girlfriend or something?
>>928756
what's worse is that the hoods are angled upwards, with the drops angled down.
>>928766
>The frame may be good but fucking hell the components for the bike with the parts are fucking SHIT
People buy anything other than the frame?
What the fuck are you people?
>>928782
I'm sure not everyone wants or knows how to build a bike m8
>>928783
I don't. Twelve years ago I went into my lbs and asked them about my needs while riding my solid axle pos. Then they built me an LHT. It fit my needs when steel frames were rare in my small local market.
>>928783
MGTOW DIY cultists believe that if you ride on wheels you didn't build yourself, you're literally a walking LBS shill by which I mean you take money from LBSs in exchange for promoting the incorrect notion that wheelbuilding isn't for everyone on the internet
>>928795
HOL UP
Maybe a MTB like the Troll or even the ECR. I've got an ECR and that thing is like a super LHT.
>>928749
Ching-chong shit.
It's funny how poorkids have such a cognitive dissonance over their inablilty to afford anything better than a dumpster-dive OTS.
>>928690
>muh steel
This is going just like
>muh garbon
Really? So you say a steel bike is practically indestructible?
>>928785
>Suddenly building a bike is only wheelbuilding
Sure, m8
>Implying all conmuters (or even tourers) build their own bikes
>>928799
>surly
>made in republic of china
>>928805
Their inspirational bike is a brand new expensive (O)TS.
>>928621
cool,a tyre without a valve
>>928890
tries shouldn't have valves
>>928767
You can move 'em around, tho that means recabling. Or, more likely, change everything. Trekking bar cockpits always seem to wind up having setups that are, um, unique.
Jones loop bar is the best touring bar.
>>928557
I'm only interested based off of how it's the only 26er I've seen on the market. All other big name companies hold 27.5 as their smallest.
>>930167
I used to be a traditionalist stalwart, but I would never buy another flat top tube bike again. I have had a cross check for over a decade and while it has been an awesome and reliable bike, you can't beat a MTB for comfort and fit. Bigger wheel clearance, better standover means taking that that out of the fit equation.
Get a troll/ogre/ecr. Troll takes 26, 27.5, even takes some 26+ and 700x40c!
>>930441
BUT MUH AERO
Seriously, anon, that's another reason why the LHT is so appealing. Road geometry + 26er makes for a good combo, but now I'm reconsidering it based on your post. And I don't think any MTB out there can haul as much in weight as the LHT does, but then again I haven't tried it, I'm going by /n/'s suggestions from old threads.
>>930632
You can get plenty aero on Jones bars, which come standard on those Surly touring MTB. The geometry of those bikes is also optimized for touring, especially the ECR which is a sled. Put 2+in road tyres on the ECR and that is the most awesome road tourer. How about you do some research outside of /n/, which is mostly OTS riders and shotafreds.
Workman
>>930632
>upright position
>wide touring drops
>aero
>>928557
Pro DIY option:
> 1990s rigid MTB from craiglist ($150)
> Sunringle Rhyno lite XL wheelset ($150)
> Schwalbe Marathons ($100)
> Kool Stop pads + V-brakes ($75? if levers needed)
> SLR TRK saddle ($75)
$550 for a killer clydesdale road bike that can handle your weight and won't be constantly getting flats / needing maintenance
>>928557
I weigh 240 right now and I still ride my Schwinn Le Tour that I found under a tree with a free sign on it.
>>930842
They were saying the tree was free, you fiddy bike thief. I hope you get run over by a cargo ship.
>>930829
>road bike
kek
>>930847
That was a typo
>>930832
Be careful of taking analysis on this anonymous board, which has known marketers on it as well as a couple of well known framebuilders. The story is totally different elsewhere when posters have to put a name to the post.
Surly bikes get a lot of hate on here, but universal praise elsewhere, I wonder why that is...
>>930862
Because the Surly intern only posts on 4chan once every few weeks because he's too busy doing "social media outreach" on websites with actual userbases.
>>930822
>upright
LHT has drops, and yeah I know they're touring drops but it still beats MTB geometry forcing you to go upright with flat bars. Unless you use Jones bars like that other anon said.
>>930829
All those parts together come out to be more than 550.
With all this Surly hate, why aren't you telling him to get a Rivendell
>>928577
>>928578
Just looked at the surly warranty and had some keks.
If they were an Australian company they'd get rekt for selling touring bikes without kickstands, it'd just take the company one pissed off customer calling the ACCC on them and a lawsuit.
USA refund law has really cucked you guys, if a product doesn't do what the manufacturer says it's built for: e.g. a tour bike being useful for touring, the customer has a case for a refund and once a precedent like that goes public the company will either be forced to change or suffer a serious PR shitstorm.
>>930829
What is an slr trk saddle?
>>928571
Planned obsolescence is the term in the business world.
Op don't spend too much money, You're likely not going to commute for long
>>932114
did you even try to do math?
>>932308
oops. my bad, anon. not sure why i got 650 last time
>>932287
wtf is this shit head doing on /n/
OP go on bikes direct and get a steel frame road bicycle. You might have to replace the wheels at some point but it'll last you a while if you maintain it.
Surly LHT or 90s rigid mountain bike on craigslist
>>>/n/bbg
>>930829
what is that front rack?
>>932518
I think it's Topeak
