DC Streetcar
>Over a decade
>$200 million spent
>Only 2.2 miles
>Opening Day: Sat. February 27th, 2016
Any projects you're still waiting on, /n/?
My city has had a plan to build a 6 mile bike/ped trail looping around the downtown core since 1912. It's currently scheduled to be finished by 2018.
>concept first described in the 1870's
>fully mapped out and planned in 1912 as the city's "emerald necklace"
>partially finished as part of the city park system, but then we had major floods, economic changes, car-infra became a top priority, and the downtown area nearly died after WWII because a swath of the city was bulldozed to make way for an Interstate highway and the federal government subsidized sprawl
>plan revived in 1992, a few more sections that connect to nothing were finished before funding ran out
>plan revived in 2012, nothing accomplished
>plan re-revived in 2015 with stable funding
>2018 scheduled completion...
obligatory Seattle Tunnel Project post
it'll be fucking sweet when it's finished though
we have a streetcar opening soon but our subway was halted in the 1920s. Our subway line is still abandoned.
No one has yet to have a good idea for use of the cincy subway system.
>>928174
How the fuck does that cost $200 million?
How the fuck does the US even function?
>>928180
Ha. HAHAHA. Yeah, we'll see.
Unrelated to Bertha: Anyone ever heard of Honolulu's light rail project?
>>928195
Mystery.
Just one part time of the story, the cars were produced on time that means somewhere in 2009. D.C. still didn't have a depot to put the cars into so firstly they paid the producer to store the trams in the factory and then they built a whole temporary depot in the D.C. I mean, the depot has everything, it's perfectly equipped but it's only temporary. They basically wasted a lot of money on unnecessary things like this just to feel good.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/trafficandcommuting/how-dc-spent-200-million-over-a-decade-on-a-streetcar-you-still-cant-ride/2015/12/05/3c8a51c6-8d48-11e5-acff-673ae92ddd2b_story.html
>>928196
>Honolulu's light rail project
>light rail
We had a past mayor call it "light rail" because that's what the cool cities like, but our project is 100% grade separated like a heavy rail project.
>>928195
It doesn't. Our infrastructure is fucked. Everything preexisting is left over from WWII era and we can't afford to replace it. All mechanisms related to getting shit done is just broken. It needs a complete overhaul but there's no will to get it done.
>>928174
Extension of the YUS Line into Vaughan
>Started in 2008
>Was supposed to be completed by Spring 2015
>Work at York University station is halted for 6 months due to a worker being killed
>By 2015 project was 150 Million over budget
>Contractor building York University station gets replaced
>TTC fires almost every supervisor on the project
>Hires Bechtel to take over management of the project
>As of now every station except York University is about 90% complete
>York University is still only 65% complete
>By 2016 project is now $400 Million over budget
>Entire project is being held up by one station
>Opening day is end of 2017 as of now
Obligatory Barcelona tram
>2nd gen network started in 2004
>29.1km divided in two separate systems
>both systems are to be connected along this one avenue which runs right through the city center
>connection is left for a second phase so that politicians don't have to deal with NIMBYs right away
>10 years pass, tram is great success even though it lacks access to city center and only works as subway/suburban train feeder
>previous mayor remodels part of said avenue in an obvious attempt to make it harder to later put in the tram line
>old mayor gets btfo, new mayoress wants to finally get this tram done
>cost to be about 120-150m€ for 3.8km
>half the city is up in arms bc hurr durr muh waste of money and hurr durr muh traffic problems
>other half doesn't give a shit even though they'd likely benefit from it
>city hall has ordered studies on doing this connection and will base its decision to pull through on the results
>studies will likely be favorable to do this connections since they studied this already 10 years ago and the only thing that's changed is a short part of the avenue which was slightly remodeled
JUST NIMBY MY SHIT UP SENPAI
the "Metro 5" of Budapest
>being planned for almost 20 years
>there wasn't even any concrete plans about how to do it
>no resources for the project because the disgrace called "Metro 4" needed everything
>the plan is to connect 3 from the 4 suburban railway lines under the surface
>the fourth would be connected with the Metro 2, which has a common terminus with it
>it'd be ~5 km long
>but since the Metro 4, everybody hates any plan about undergrounds here
>both projects are standing in the cupboard of the planning bureau
>now we have that sucking 2024 olympics competition, which we have no chance to win it cuz LA comes in the continent order
>the shortest suburban railway's line is in the way of the planned new olympic stadium
>so it is expected to be abolished and replaced with FUCKING TRAMS
>so since the plan came out, it just became worse as it seems
>Hungary, I love you that way
>>928195
Building the maintainance facilities is going to hit you. Especially on tiny networks, they are expensive in relation of the rest of the project and are always going to be underused, which makes such networks questionable. Unless there are fixed expansion plans
The tram in Aubagne in France was €124 million for the initial 2.7 km line.
While a planned extension, that would have more than doubled the track lenght would have cost €42 million simply because it wouldn't require any further depot work.
The extension is now cancelled though, so the investment is pretty much wasted.
>>928186
dayum man, so creepy
why nobody wants to finish it
>Wisconsin
and to a lesser extent:
>Michigan
>>928174
>Any projects you're still waiting on, /n/?
There is a town near us where it became obvious a bypass would be needed in the mid 1930s. It still hasn't been built, 80 or so years later. The traffic is worse, and it is still pushed through ordinary city streets. The fuckers keep zoning buildings on the approved routes and praying for Santa Claus to approve a tunnel under the whole lot...
>>928212
Is there even such a thing as light rail without overhead wires?
Well, I guess the DLR doesn't have them. But other than that is there any LRT system without overhead wires?
Second Avenue Subway
New York City Subway
>Second Av Subway Line first proposed in 1919 or 1929 (depending on who you ask) making it literally almost 100 years old
>First phase of construction supposedly going to open in December 2016
>Construction on the first phase began in April 2007, so almost 10 years (not counting reused tunnel segments built in the 1970s)
>1.5 miles of new line (over 2 miles including reused old tunnel segments built in the 1970s) built at a cost of $4.45 billion, making it one of the most expensive subway lines in the world (along with other NYC megaprojects)
>The full Second Av Line is currently planned for 8.5 miles to built over four phases; phases two through four are not funded and have no timeline, the whole line will likely cost $17-20 billion because NY has a gigantic cost issue
Please kill me.
>>928178
didn't know there were others from 719 on here.
>>928359
Why would you build a fucking 5-stop extension of a subway line in an area of the city where there's already a shitload of subway lines? Do you really need fucking 5-6 lanes for cars on any street that you can't put down a few tram lines, or even have some damn bus lanes? Why is it that for some people anything that isn't shitexpensive subways on top of other subways is no solution to transit problems?
>>928356
Isn't there some places in murrica with diesel light rail?
>>928367
I guess there are a handful of diesel LRT systems, but they are small and extremely uncommon.
>>928359
What is the main rason for the cost issues? Boring tunnels shouldn't cost much less or more than 100 years ago.
Do they have to pay massive royalties for all the land owners on their route, for all traffic disruptions they cause or something?
>>928383
well it's NYC so they have to pay adventurers to clear out the dungeons and seal the Void Gates and that shit gets expensive.
>>928360
Well then there are at least 3 of us now, are you in the Springs too?
>>928365
The picture I posted in >>928359 is actually only the first phase of the Second Av Subway. The full line is planned to have 16 stops and run from 125 St in Harlem to Hanover Square (near Wall Street in the Financial District). First I should point out that the green 4/5/6 lines that run north-south on the East side are crushloaded and really need relief. That trunk line is the most crowded line in the system. The other lines are east-west lines that run between the west side of Manahttan and Queens and don't really help. Also, the 63 St line (including the Lexington Av-63 St station) was originally built in the 1970s partially to connect the planned Second Av Subway to the Broadway Line (the yellow N/Q/R lines), so it's not really an independent line per se. The segment from 57 St-7 Av on the Broadway Line to Lexington Av-63 St was also built in the 1970's and isn't actually new. Actually, construction on the Second Avenue Subway started in 1972 but was halted in 1975 because NYC was going through a big recession. Only the 63 St line was actually finished.
And yeah, NYC really has a car problem but even bus traffic is struggling. The M15 bus that runs on First and Second Av (the same street the new subway line will run under) is the busiest bus route in the entire city in terms of ridership. It's very busy. It also has bus lanes. The M15 is also a Select Bus Service route but it's still pretty slow (Select Bus Service is basically NYC's attempt at bus rapid transit)
>>928383
Lot of reasons, like union work rules, incompetent management, corruption. A construction head for the MTA said that featherbedding is a serious issue. For example, a tunneling operation in a foreign country might use 9 workers at a time, whereas that same operation in the US might use 25 workers because of staffing requirements.
>>928388
More things I want to add: The Second Avenue Subway is planned to be built in four phases. Only the first phase (from 63 St to 96 St) is under construction now.
>>928383
More things I should add: Second Avenue Subway construction got held up by a lawsuit. At 86 St station, the MTA planned to put two of the station's entrances outside a residential building (pic related), and the building residents sued the MTA.... twice, delaying construction. Thankfully the MTA came out on top.
Also, in terms of corruption, one subcontractor indirectly tried to scam the MTA. A whistleblower said that a subcontractor tried to rip off a contractor for the project by taking apprentice workers (who make maybe $23 an hour) and passing them off as mechanics (who are very skilled and make maybe $90 an hour). The whistleblower said that this kind of corruption is not uncommon when it comes to MTA construction projects.
>>928388
Thanks for all the info. Looking at it the way you put it makes more sense. But if those few stations are costing an arm and a leg, how are they going to pay for the rest of it?
Also I still wonder why NY doesn't put down a couple of LRT lines within Manhattan to replace overloaded bus lines and relieve subway lines. Streets are wide, and the grid makes it easy to lay efficient lines. It's not a definite solution, but it would surely help a lot...
>>928174
nah
Los Angeles' Purple Line
previously in LA, we used to have a public transportation system in place with the Pacific Electric Railway prior to the construction of our freeways in the 50s. With the push for the car/car culture, the PER system was removed and LA was without a proper public transportation system until the late 80s when construction of the on-grade light rail under the name of the Blue Line was opened from Long Beach to Downtown. The next one to open in phases was the Red Line/Purple Line, from Downtown to Hollywood to North Hollywood in the mid 90s (you can see the under construction subway in the ending of the movie Speed).
The Purple Line and Red Line share the line from Union Station to Wilshire/Vermont, where the Red Line continues up north to Hollywood and the San Fernando Valley, while the Purple Line was terminated at Western due to a methane explosion in the 80s on Fairfax, which subsequently led to that zone be made a methane zone and a ban passed by Congress to kill the Purple Line's original route to Santa Monica.
The Red Line has provided enough ridership from people living in the San Fernando Valley going to work in Downtown LA. While the traffic congestion has worsened, the Red Line continues to do its job alleviating some of that traffic. The Westside of Los Angeles has progressively become worse.
Construction has resumed in phases to a new terminus in Wilshire/La Cienega, and for future phases in UCLA/Westwood area, but Beverly Hills has put up resistance through litigation citing methane under Beverly Hills High School, which the route of the Purple Line passes under to reach the future Century City station (cheaper alternate, desirable station location, avoids a fault), though the EIR had already proposed to solutions to the methane problem with state of the art technology.
It is also a combination of rich folk not wanting hobos potentially having an easier way to get to Beverly Hills.
>>928391
>$90 an hour
That's seems a ridiculous wage even considering you guys need to pay your own pension fund and insurance.
>>928393
Too many double parkers and trucks loading and unloading. In the past Manhattan streetcars couldn't run on catenary,they ran via a conduit between the track. There might be a trolley running on the waterfront in Brooklyn and Queens but it's still talk.
>>928415
Nowadays trams without catenary have become more commonplace again, and the whole doubleparkers and trucks thing shouldn't be an issue if you have a decen ROW.
I've heard about the Brooklyn and Queens proposal, would be interesting if it ever got off the ground. I think there's way too much prejudice about large cities with subways having trams as well. Precisely if a city is big it ought to have tram lines in addition to bus lines, for places where demand is too much for a bus and there's no subways closeby or they're all full to the brim.
Massachusetts South Coast Rail Project
Not only was there already a line from New Bedford to Boston in the past, but it will be 40 years in 2020 when the project is finally completed
>>928365
>thinking a tram will suffice in a neighborhood that has a density of 46000 people per sq km
The one line running through the neighborhood gets 1.3 million people a day, which is more than most entire systems.
>>928417
>Nowadays trams without catenary have become more commonplace again
It may be my suppressed autism speaking, but I'm not entirely happy with the current generation of APS systems.
I'd heavily hail for wireless technologies, particularly something that could be as passive as possible. Initial complexity of manufacture (say, linear induction motor stators) is lesser evil than many components that introduce irreliability and heightened maintenance costs.
Resonant coupling has been studied to death for electric bus charging and other road applications but it seems that the efficienly (=coupling) just can't be made good enough.
Linear induction motor's stator could be too maintenance-heavy in mixed traffic. I like the idea, though can't understand why anyone could choose that over third rail in fully segregated system.
>>928426
I did some further reading. I knew about Alston APS and was vaguely aware of Bombardier Primove, but our best friend Ansaldo is rushing to the rescue with Tramwave. This is ingenious.
>Have a conduit, with insulated well and conductive roof, roof diveded into sections.
>Have a loose electric conductor in the bottom of the conduit.
>Magnet in a tram lifts this bottom cable, completing the connection.
>>928195
>less then 100 mil a mile
That's about on par with what it costs overseas.
>>928218
>wahhhh muh freeways
Go to Germany or some shit. The infrastructure in the US isn't nearly as bad as you think it is.
>>928253
Isn't the York University stations being built in a field? How the hell did they fuck up so badly on an open cut segment?
>>928388
>muh unions
Keep sucking corporate dick, maybe they'll give you a piece of candy for all your hard shilling.
>>928425
Now riddle me this: Do buses run through those neighbourhoods? Why?
Check mate.
>>928442
Yes. They act as supplements, nothing more. A tram would make a suitable supplement, but it would not make a suitable primary mode of transport.
>>928438
The stations aren't open cut, they are underground. York University has been a problem since the original contractor was terrible, and a worker died there. So while York U has been going through shit every other station was moving a normal pace.
All the tunneling is done, its been done for a year now. Tracks are ready to be laid down but York U station is so fucked up at the moment we can't do shit.
>>928253
I sometimes wonder what were they (TTC and everyone else) were thinking when they thought "elaborate and fancy" station designs is a good idea
>>928466
Well I would assume that it's because it's just kind of how Subway stations are built now. Pretty much every major subway infrastructure project around the world attempts to design stations to stand out and be unique in some way. Some are more minimal than others but they all try to achieve the same result.
>>928398
I think there is a ballot measure for a bond to accelerate the project to be done by 2024.
Atlanta Multi-Modal Passenger Terminal. Supposed to bring together buses, streetcars, subway, commuter rail, state intercity rail, Amtrak, and highspeed rail in one massive central station in the heart of the city.
They were supposed to be breaking ground this past year, but we haven't gotten a peep out of the state about the project ever since the arcitectual rendering video leaked a couple of years ago.
Atlanta commuter rail. First line was supposed to be built in 2006. The feds even gave the state a ton of backing money for it. The state fucked it up, didn't do shit, and the feds took back the money.
Now MARTA is trying to get that first stretch built by 2025.
>>928386
I do live there, though I am at Boulder studying currently.
>>928497
Good master plan but ridership projections are too high. Someone figured that out before the state started making acquisitions. That means its not justifiable as an expense. Makes sense that, especially in a republican state, this concept would never be realized.
>>928497
Jesus Christ, how many counties are there? It must be a bureaucratic mess
>>928506
The full commuter buses traveling into the city along similar routes would beg to differ. The demand is certainly there. While the 2006 numbers might not have been right for right then, by now they could easily be getting similar ridership.
Infrastructure isn't only for the immediate, it's for the future demand on its way, and induced.
>>928558
Depends on what you consider the metro. There are 5 core counties, where MARTA is supposed to operate. Three of these counties fund MARTA. One is on the tipping point. The other has a bad case of 'we don't need no crime trains'.
Fulton, DeKalb, Gwinnett, Cobb, and Clayton were the five original counties when the Atlanta metropolitan area was first defined in 1950, and continue to be the core of the metro area. These five counties along with five more (Cherokee, Douglas, Fayette, Henry and Rockdale) are members of the Atlanta Regional Commission, a weak metropolitan government agency which also is a regional planning agency. The ten ARC counties and five more (Bartow, Coweta, Hall, Forsyth, Paulding) are part of the Metropolitan North Georgia Water Planning District, created in 2001. The 14 counties listed above with under 60,000 residents are usually not included in any other metropolitan definition except the OMB/Census Bureau's CSA. Hall County was originally the Gainesville, GA Metropolitan Statistical Area, but with astronomical growth to over 180,000 residents, is now part of the Atlanta CSA.
It gets worse when you consider that a lot of tax-payer funded projects require the consensus of all the towns / cities in that county. It is a right cluster fuck trying to get anything in the way of central planning to be taken seriously, and it often doesn't get adhered to. The City of Atlanta is only ~450,000 of a 6+ million metro. The city is the core, and really the heart, but lots of the surround towns/counties like to ignore that fact.
>>928365
The tunnel was originally proposed to replace an existing elevated line. They tore down the el in anticipation of the subway, and then the subway got delayed for a century. Oops
>>928423
South Coast Rail is such a boondoggle, spending $3billion on a single track line.
>>928174
Ottawa Confederation Line
>building a tunnel in the downtown for trams was proposed in 1915
>modern plan starts in the 60s
>planners explore different options (subways, that weird thing the SkyTrain uses, PRTs, LRT)
>they go with BRT
>tunnel gets dropped when the mayor says that the "money is no object" (or something along those lines) at a meeting which created a shitstorm in the press
The weirdest thing is that the actual alignement for the tunnel hasn't changed all that much over the years.
>>928200
This doesn't sound right.
>>928342
What is even the fucking point of building a 2,7 km tram line? And don't give me the "planed extension" bullshit. Why not doing it outright? The extension itself was about to cost a third of what the first part did and I believe it could go even lower if done at the same time.
What does a 2,7 km tram line achieves? Does it even have a stop between the ends? Is it fast enough to outrun a pedestrian? WHY GODAMNIT WHYYYYY?
>>928417
It would have to be a separate ROW. With a concrete divider. I've seen too many cars use the ROW for the select buses. In Philly one of the reason that the trolleys were gone was some of the streetcars ran on narrow straight streets. One double parker or ill parked truck .screws up your commute.
>>929209
>Traditionally, heavy rail refers to actual train(freight, commuter and interurban train)
uwot?
Heavy rail is usually also used to refer to heavy subways, even if they're closed systems.
>>929216
>What is even the fucking point of building a 2,7 km tram line? And don't give me the "planed extension" bullshit. Why not doing it outright? The extension itself was about to cost a third of what the first part did and I believe it could go even lower if done at the same time.
>What does a 2,7 km tram line achieves? Does it even have a stop between the ends? Is it fast enough to outrun a pedestrian? WHY GODAMNIT WHYYYYY?
2nd this (minus the autism). There's no way to justify tram lines of less than 5km in length. Just use a bus, there's no way a 2.7km long line will get enough ridership to justify a tram line.
>>929240
That definition difference is between transit buffs and foamers.
>hoohoo, not hauling coal or crude, what a toy train!
>Projects that are TAKING too long
I-35 highway expansion along Austin to Dallas corridor. Holy shit, Texas State Gov't is the worst at fund allocation. The Project has taken years because every year they allocate all Road tax funds to the project and then run out in 5 months and wait for the next fiscal year to start back at it. In the process creating a boom-bust cycle that just makes a decades long money pit.
Conservative Republican leadership is inherently at odds with any public infrastructure. One day Texas will be blue again and NIMBY whiners will be lined up against the wall.
>>929264
>One day Texas will be blue again and NIMBY whiners will be lined up against the wall.
lol, you wish
(the NIMBY part, not the blue Texas part)
>>929248
>That definition difference is between transit buffs and foamers.
No it's not. There's no clear definition for where heavy rail ends and light rail begins, neither among rail buffs nor among engineers.
>>929280
I do wish, you probably do too if you're on /n/. Honestly I think people will just get fed up with how texdot is forced to allocate funds and there will be a large demand for better transportation between major cities within 30 years. Texas's government has historically been generous to railroads at one point giving them something like 25% of the state's land for next to nothing in the eart 20th century. Granted that was for freight but the RR lobby is still a presence now.
Hartford - New Britain busway, the CTFastrak. They built a full 10 mile BRT from Hartford to New Britain (the two most ghetto towns in New England) on half an Amtrak ROW and half an abandoned railroad, Amtrak still has the land rights and will likely tear up the busway in 2030/2040 for the new HSR route
>>929209
> Plenty of light rail transits use third rail for power.
Like where?
Merika
The land where they think a single short streetcar in the gentrified downtown will fix all their transit problems in a sprawling city & suburbia
>>929541
In all fairness, Washington DC has a decent subway system.
>>929535
Basically any transit system that use bombardier innovia rolling stocks as well as LRTs in european and asian countries
>>928393
That's the big question. Considering how much construction projects cost in NYC, where is the MTA going to find the money to finish the Second Avenue Subway?
>>928439
Hey, I like unions and think they help provide workers with protections they need, but the corruption needs to stop.
Don't take it from me, take it from the whistleblower:
http://nypost.com/2015/04/06/whistleblower-prompts-probe-of-second-avenue-subway/
>“There’s a common saying down there — the MTA is the ATM. You get money if you’re standing,” disgusted whistleblower Alexander Maack told The Post about contractors’ attitudes toward big projects. “Just show up for the day and you make the boss a profit.”
>Maack said a foreman pressured him to present himself as a mechanic to an outside construction manager — even though he was still a student at the Nicholas Maldarelli Training Center.
>A first-year apprentice makes $34.19 an hour, but a mechanic makes a staggering $94.11 an hour — a difference of $60 an hour per worker. He alleges that his company billed the contractors E.E. Cruz and Tully the higher rate.
>Maack, who received an apprentice paycheck from Celtic Sheet Metal, said he was able to avoid lying by telling the construction manager to ask the foreman what his title was.
>But the situation escalated when his supervisor tried to bully him to lie again to a Department of Labor rep in January, he said.
When I mentioned the article before I said apprentices made $23 per hour, it's actually $34. My mistake.
And while I'm not too familiar with construction projects overseas, the fact that NYC's construction projects are much more expensive than similar projects abroad is not sustainable. We need to do something about that if we want to see the city's transit expand at most than a snail's pace. And if construction projects here are staffed by twice or thrice as many workers at a time compared to projects abroad, we should look at that.
>>929559
Yeah from what I can remember from my time in DC the area in question is underserved by mass transit, I had to book a hotel there once because everything else was taken (inauguration) and I had to take cabs a lot.
>>928367
Surprisingly, in Canada
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/O-Train#Lines
>>929610
>the area in question is underserved by mass transit
No. The H street corridor where the streetcar is running is already served by one of the busiest bus lines in the city.
The X2 bus gets you where you need to go quicker than this streetcar.
The DC streetcar as built brings absolutely nothing to the table here.
>>928344
Who the fuck designed the cab on that train? Lmao
