>67km of track
>4 lines
>24 stations (potential 5 more)
>5.5 Billion cost estimation
This is the biggest public transportation infrastructure project in Montreal since the last major Metro extensions (Orange line extension, blue line construction)
This is an automated light rail network that will exclusively serve the suburbs. Rather than expand the network of commuter trains and increase service, they are building light rail into the suburbs. There are clearly darker machinations happening behind closed doors because there aren't enough numbers in the world to justify these new lines.
The principal funder is the corrupt Caisse de dépôt et placement du Québec (Quebec Deposit and Investment Fund) and they expect to recoup their operational and CAPITAL costs. The idea that they will be able to recoup capital costs on a rail line is laughable. Maybe if 500,000 people use it a day and the fares are 10 bucks a pop.
The project is being lauded by suburbanites while the opposition party in Montreal is criticizing the city for not spending the money on the urban core where public transportation usage rates are actually high, and the current network is stresses beyond capacity.
When will this progressivism meme end?
>>947795
They will be constructing a hard link between the Montreal Trudeau airport and downtown Montreal. The very successful 747 shuttle bus operated by the STM has roughly 1.3 million passengers a year, more than the Toronto-Pearson UP, but the operational costs are negligent (its a bus) and the capital costs are non-existent, naturally. For this line to actually travel from the Saint-Laurent Technoparc to the airport, it would have to travel under hundreds of metres of tarmac. The construction cost of this tunnel will drive up the budget, undoubtedly.
The idea that suburban cagers will abandon their cars in favour of this train is laughable. Once again urban dwellers are being cucked in favour of suburban commuters that want everything.
This is complete madness. Montreal should look towards north american cities with robust commuter rail networks like NYC (Metro-North, LIRR) and Toronto (GO) that work to complement the dense urban network of transportation that serves the city core, while the commuter lines bring people into the city.
I'll follow up with street view of the areas surrounding these new stations so you can get an appreciation for the level of density these lines will be serving.
Pic related, Montreal's current commuter train network. Outside of rush hour, the service on these lines is horrible, with maybe 1 or 2 trains passing in each direction between the morning and afternoon rush.
>>947801
Kirkland, Quebec.
Not actually part of the municipality of Montreal, this sleeper community is one of the communities that will be served by the new train.
Pic related is a street 5 minutes from the proposed train station.
You can't even make this shit up. You can even tell from the construction that this is your typical North American boomer/cager/urban sprawl 1950s development.
>>947797
It's not progressivism, it's the mafia. This is Montreal after all
>>947939
mark my words SNC will get the contract
Unless they're proposing irregular headways, the stated rush hour frequencies are complete BS. Pairing 3 western branches with one eastern branch even surpasses American levels of stupidity. The Deux-Montagnes line, even though it's by far the busiest line in the AMT system, will be capped at a 1/3 to 1/2 the frequency of the 12-km Brossard line.The project would be a lot more justifiable if the new Champlain Bridge service was only connected to Train de l'ouest as I had assumed. There is zero fucking justification for the new airport branch because Technoparc is served just as well on L'ouest, and the current Dorval station is only a mile from the terminals that somehow has no plans for a straightforward people mover.
Even the new Mascouche line is fucked up for building a roundabout U-turn to the terminus (and ridiculous blast shield tunnel) instead of just planning to use the existing line to Mascouche while also serving eastern Laval.
>>947806
AMT's current lines get pretty good ridership for their complete lack of usuable off-peak service, and all suburban-regional services in N America pretty much serve an identical kind of suburbia. But when a metro region doesn't plan transit well and stick to a focused priority list of balanced core capacity and expansion projects, then special interests can easily hijack the process, as is the case all over the US.
Looks like the biggest problem is that two of the three transfer stations to the Metro are "potential" stations, not planned.
Bringing up the fact that usage rates are low in under-served areas is a backwards argument. If the service is non-existent or shitty, of course the usage is going to be low.
Headways are ambitious, but it can work with irregular scheduling.
>>947993
ake a look at the picture I uploaded. Not a single house without a car parked in the drive. Indeed, the one i focused on had 2 cars. These people do not own opus cards.
The original plan was to build alongside VH line, but the turcot work delayed things. They should just wait and not build along the 40, the end of the new line is retardly close to the vh line.
Headways seem impossible. pic related, the Deux-Montagnes line is at 100% capacity with commuter rails and this is its week day rush hour schedule.
Projet Montreal (the opposition) made the argument that no public consultation was done and that the decision to expand into DDO, Brossard and Laval at the expense of Montrealers was unfairly forced upon the taxpayers.
>>947795
>using cuck for no apparent reason
Get meme'd faggot.
>>947795
>Outremont
>St-Laurent
>suburbs
>literally converting the existing electric commuter line to increase frequency
Torontard detected. Keep crying for your elusive DLR faggot. At least we actually have a subway system that serves the downtown properly.
>>948121
>the Deux-Montagnes line is at 100% capacity with commuter rails and this is its week day rush hour schedule.
>he didn't read the technical documents
They can't lower headways without adding a second track at certain chokepoints. Replacing the massive rolling stock with LRVs also means they won't be wasting money dragging around empty cars off peak.
>the opposition crying about there being no public consultations
>documents literally state there are going to be public hearings by next year
>>947795
I don't get how people living in cities where commuter rail or public transit has a lot of leftover potential can be ok with new projects like this which are multi-billion dollar investments.
ffs, FIRST you get all you can out of what you have, THEN you start building new shit when you see that your existing infrastructure isn't enough. It's not fucking rocket science.
In my experience, 99% of cities in north america have lots of margin to improve commuter rail service, and yet they do shit like this. It's beyond me. I sometimes feel that I live in a zoo surrounded by retard animals and no way out.
>>948180
>he actually believed OP
>being this retarded
They're going to improve service on an existing line (the Deux-Montagnes line) and serving areas which aren't presently serviced by commuter rail (the municipality of Brossard notably) with this project. The only 'redundant' stretch is going to be the part that's going to be on the West Island but they're building a redundant line because they can't squeeze out more capacity out of the Vaudreuil-Hudson line that runs on CN's mainline (and there's no way in hell CN is going to prioritise commuter trains over freight).
>>947962
That is what has happens here, so suburban mayors greased the construction mafia's hands and all these bullshit lines were approved with what was the first chance in 30 years to revitalize the metro network.
Im very butthurt. about the whole affair. Heres what I think we need for montreal desu. pic related.
>>948150
We're being cucked by the construction mafia.
>>948154
>outremount
>served by this project
Its a potential station.
Also st laurent is huge and lots of it is actually pretty suburban, but regardless this project is retarded they could just buy more rolling stock and maybe build one more track for increased service on deux montagnes.
>>948155
If they're adding track they should just keep the electric commuter train rolling stock. I doubt their light rail will travel as fast as bombardier commuter train.
>documents literally state there are going to be public hearings by next year
I'll give you a million dollars if the plans change in any significant way and that the contract is awarded to some corrupt Quebec construction firm.
>>948183
The Brossard line is the only sensible line. The 3 line trunk leading to the Mount royal tunnel is beyond retarded. They simply need to build extra tracks alonside Deux montagnes and Vaudreuil-Hudson.
>>948190
Tram du Montagbe, tram that goes around the mountain on cote st catherine, sherbrooke, parc and Jean Talon
Connection with AMT Saint jerome, Mascouche and Deux Montagnes lines and STM metro blue line (Cote des neiges and Parc)
>>948192
>I doubt their light rail will travel as fast as bombardier commuter train
>I doubt a small EMU designed for urban networks will be faster than a fuckhuge EMU designed for slow commuter systems
K.
>The 3 line trunk leading to the Mount royal tunnel is beyond retarded. They simply need to build extra tracks alonside Deux montagnes and Vaudreuil-Hudson.
>they simply need to magically add two tracks to a quad track mainline that crosses loads of old neighborhoods
You do realize the new line is going to be built along the little used CN Doney Spur that branches off the Deux-Montagnes line, right?
It will be far cheaper to purchase and rebuild that line then to try to add or upgrade the clusterfuck that is the CN/CP/VIA mainline that the Vaudreuil line uses. There's a reason the original upgrade plans for that line got dropped for this one.
>>948194
>building a tramway that will be completely redundant and serve an empty park
Tremblay's shitty little tram network plan was scrapped because for these reasons.
>>948254
>not knowing about the mafia
>laughingginos.jpg
>>948259
The bombardier trains can go 160km/h in DMU config and 200km/h in EMU config, I'd be very surprised if this lightrail train will be pull off such speeds.
Also, you're a fucking idiot. The 165 and 80 bus are two of the most used lines in the entire STM network. They're both articulated 10 minute max bus routes, and building a tram on Cote st Catherine (165) and Parc (80) would be heavily utilized. This tram loop would fill in the gaps of the metro very nice for the mile end and cote des neiges areas.
>>948278
>implying I don't now about corruption
It's not like RDI had the Charbonneau commission playing constantly or anything. Here's the thing though, the mafia is involved in construction no mater where you go.
It really doesn't take away from the fact that the Laval métro extension was one of (if not the) cheapest subway construction project in North America while the Second Avenue line in NYC has blown past the 1 billion per mile mark and the Spadina extension in Toronto has blown past the 200 mil per mile mark.
>The bombardier trains can go 160km/h in DMU config and 200km/h in EMU config, I'd be very surprised if this lightrail train will be pull off such speeds.
The top speed on the line is currently 65mph. Top speed really doesn't mater on urban transportation, acceleration is far more important. Just ask the Japanese.
>Also, you're a fucking idiot
K. Thanks Mr Transport Planner. Read the goddamn reports made by the city on the tram proposals. They make no goddamn sense and the corridors would at best require a BRT corridor.
>>948278
If it's anything like Northeast US EMUs, then acceleration and speed profile is already comparable to Euro-japanese models. The real problem is that a 4-car 600 person LRT set is not a meaningful substitute for 10-car 2000 person mainline set, even at headways decreased from 20-30 to 6-12 the effective capacity is totally negated. The Japanese don't do this. The only reason why an LRT solution is even being proposed at all is because it was assumed the default mode spanning the new Champlain bridge, and that it's a catch-all meme marketed as an all-purpose solution when the situation dictates otherwise. There is no reason why the new railway couldn't be designed to mainline standards (if it's all elevated anyway), and/or that articulated Stadler EMU sets could be introduced on the AMT system.
>>948194
Crucial arterial lines arbitrarily cut short at the corners because it's a geometrically retarded loop. There's a reason why transit is designed as grids and not as circles.
It does seem pretty expensive.
>>948297
I never complained about the Laval extension. Also those corridors take tens of thousands of commuters a day, enough to justify a rapid transit line so a tram is a valid method to de congest these routes.
>>948352
FLIRT or heavy commuter rail is the only solution. This LRT system will be a failure.
And pic related, redesign. includes 100% of the 165 and 95% of the 80, minus a couple of blocks north of Parc. Connections with Gare Mount Royal, Parc and Station Cote Des Neiges, Parc, Place Des Arts and Guy-Concordia. Also line on St-Laurent to fill in urban core transit.
>>948435
>I never complained about the Laval extension
I brought it up as a counterpoint to the "mafia jacks up construction costs *100 times" bullshit that people bring up on a constant basis and you just replied by repeating the bullshit.
>Also those corridors take tens of thousands of commuters a day, enough to justify a rapid transit line so a tram is a valid method to de congest these routes.
No shit. Problem is your loop line would add unnecessary transfer points for bus riders thereby driving down the number of partons. If you're going to convert bus lines then you have to convert the whole line back to what is was prior to bustitution.
>literally proposing tramways that would run parallel a block away from each other
You make Denis Coderre look like a genius in urban planning.
>FLIRT or heavy commuter rail is the only solution. This LRT system will be a failure.
>La Caisse is throwing money into a pit despite them studying the project for nearly a year. Why? Because I said so! And I'm an autodidactic genius!
>>948697
>trams cannot exist in close proximity, even parallel to each other
>what is Vienna, Hong Kong, Toronto, St. Petersburg etc.
>being this retarded
All that matters is the raw number of people that patronize the transit line. Every single 10 minute max bus in Montreal could be converted into a tram if we had visionary public transport policy. In addition, all of the cities I mentioned have both heavily used tram networks and rapid transit.
pic related, these lines are so heavily patronized that not only do they require two, 10 minute max local, articulated bus routes, they also require another articulated "express" line that in fact is simply a relief line for commuters on the axis. A tram on these lines would be a stunning success, but there is a lack of political will to carry out these projects.
And yes, la caisse is throwing money into a pit. If you think this will recoup operational costs, youre a moron. If you think it will recoup capital costs, you're mentally ill.
>>948753
>what is Vienna, Hong Kong, Toronto, St. Petersburg etc.
>literally all first-gen networks who have shrunk significantly since the 1950s
You pick the best examples.
Show me a second-gen system that operates lines that operate a block from each other.
>Montreal could be converted into a tram if we had visionary public transport policy
You're so clueless about how second-gen tramway systems are built that it's funny. Even the most ambitious second-gen systems in Europe don't aim to do what you're doing.
>And yes, la caisse is throwing money into a pit. If you think this will recoup operational costs, youre a moron. If you think it will recoup capital costs, you're mentally ill.
Oh look, he's an economist on top of being a transportation planner. You must be one of the top minds of 4chinz.
>>949174
Yes but all also have heavily patronized rapid transit just like montreal. Their profiles are the same, the parameters work, Montreal once had one of the most extensive tram networks in north america.
Manchester 2nd gen network with 92km network. First line 1992.
Trams in Ile-de-France 2nd gen first line 1992 105km network
Pic related manchester built a 15km tram line with 30M CAD.
Montreal is building a 13 km BRT for literally 10 times that. 300 million. That's just the estimate.
Pie-IX BRT= 23 million per km
Manchester Tram= 2 million per km
The 15km line serves 90,000 people a day and the Pie-IX monstrosity is supposed to serve 70,000..
So fuck off, it can totally be done. You're just a defeatist shitter that will submit to retarded urban planning by corrupt organizations.
>>949625
> lines that run in parallel a block apart from each other
There are 5 blocks between Parc and St-Laurent
>look at all these lines in the downtown
The inner core of Paris is already served by one of if not the densest rapid transit network in the world. These tram lines are being built to complement the already existing transport infrastructure.
Here is my plan for transit in Montreal. Look over it and tell me how bad it is.
Several notes: The service addition for the AMT cover the Deux-Montagnes line, the Vaudreuil-Hudson line (the original target of the Caisse project, before the work on the turcot) and a rail link to Brossard. The only thing missing is a rail link to the Airport which could be accomplished with a rail spur from the VH line or a people mover from Dorval station. Or we could just keep the 747 bus since it works fine and the Toronto UP express was a disaster. All of the things I've included are cheaper than the Caisse project and accomplish the same thing. The 470 has a daily ridership of 11k versus VH line which is 16k. Increase service on the VH and DM lines and make the west island buses act as feeders to the two and you've just improved the west island's transport situation considerably, without the need to spend billions.
>>950160
Im not even hellbent on the construction of a tram on St-Laurent. Trams aren't even that expensive. Streets in Montreal are ripped up all the damn time, what would it cost to add guideways? The only discernible cost is rolling stock, and we'd probably go for flexity like the TTC.
>haven't read a single document on the SLR proposal
I can't find any on the internet. I can only find articles talking about this damn project.
How can you possibly justify the construction of new track into the west island when both the 470 and Vaudreuil-Hudson lines have a combined daily ridership that's lower than quite a few of the 10 minute max bus lines in the urban community of montreal only served by buses. The metro needs to be revamped. That is the number one priority. pic related
Electrify Mascouche, Build track on VH, Expand service on Deux-Montagnes. Spend billions on making AMT and metro a great service instead of splitting the funding between two competing services (the connections to city stations will most likely all be waived away. The're "potential" stations.
and for your information yes i am an anglo and i attend dawson college which was my first educational exposure to francophones... and at dawson there are weird amount of provincial type peppers that are getting their first whiff of the city.,,
>>950160
I'm not familiar with the line, but it doesn't seem unreasonable to extend two outer tracks on the sides of the CN mainline (south tracks), or that freight traffic could be accommodated just with more crossovers and passing sidings. Running doublestack under wires has always been possible, yet everyone automatically assumes this can't be done.
>>950160
Here i've used Google Earth to illustrate a point. That rapid transit facilitates and accelerates growth. The metro has allowed for a cluster of high density dwellings and high transit share commuters to live in areas that would otherwise never experience such development. And they are connected, via trains that travel millions of people a day through the city. The Metro is the back bone of the city and more it that sees it the better everything will be. Infrastructure encourages infrastructure. And we dont want to be encouraging urban sprawl.
>>950532
Electrification of Mont-St-Hilaire and through-running Deux-Montagnes increases headway capacity and expands frequent service at the same time, ahead of adding track. Of course the diesel lines need passing sidings at minimum but electrification is the true enabling modernization there as well.
Mascouche is less than two years old and is still missing many viable stations in northeast Montreal; its density alone warrants electrification and not the use of those overweight sluggish dual-modes.
SLR in its current form *adds* to chokepoints on D-M precisely because it adds not one, but two branches to the mainline, halving or potentially cutting its maximum headway to 1/3 (because everything is planned to terminate at Central Station). Again, I'm totally supportive of SLR as a tram-train from West Island to Brossard, but the unnecessary and careless scope creep hinders operations and ultimately makes it less financially viable to build. There is no reason why high-performance 10-car EMUs need to be switched out for 4-car LRTs; JR does not do this (or Paris for that matter).
>>950534
I've looked at it. North of Dorval the combined mainlines are 6 tracks on a 33m wide RoW. South of Dorval the RoW widens to 39-45m from the uppermost track to the powerline adjacent A-20, with a 12m margin between the two mainlines. Even without taking grade elevations into consideration, I cannot see why adding more track is immediately nonviable.
>>950552
In any case here is my fantasy Montreal plan, from the perspective of an outsider. AMT becomes a true RER/S-Bahn with full through-routing.
https://www.google.com/maps/d/u/0/view?mid=1oyn49EhgfjrIJOUYLsNSPGUR204
>>950466
Well, really, what's the -point- of a tram on that corridor? Surface trams are not magic, or even particularly better than busses; somewhat higher capacity at a much higher cost. Is this corridor actually overloaded? Either way, trams would be a pretty marginal improvement. Long term plans need to include some kind of grade-separated transit to get any real gains in capacity.
>>950555
Bretty good. however, here are a few critiques from a montrealer . There's no immediate need for the Green line to be extended east or west. Also, there's no way the yellow line would be expanded into the city, and if it were to, it would definitely not travel through Westmount (most affluent municipality in Canada) to terminate at Snowdon. In addition, your western terminus for the blue line makes no sense. The Montreal-West commuter train station is a very valuable transit node and the more logical terminus for the blue line. When you take into account the Candiac, Vaudreuil-Hudson and St-Jerome commuter lines and 51 and 105 bus ridership (which both terminate at the station) this pushes the number well beyond 60k DAILY.
Also I can't find any ridership info on the 162, 138, 104, 103, 102 and the 420 express which the westward blue extension would draw its passengers from. I imagine daily trips in the 80-100k ballpark are realistic for NDG, Montreal-West, Cote-St-Luc area. The montreal-ouest extension would draw a lot of its passengers from the rest of the blue line: students. The blue line between jean-talon and snowdon is mainly patronized by UdM students. Within 500 metres of Montreal West Station there are 4 secondary schools (3 english, 1 french) and 1 english university campus.
Concordia university has 45,000 and quite a few of them use Loyola Campus, at least 10-20%.
Royal West. Loyola, Kells, St-Luc annex secondary schools: 1800 students
>>950634
I'm not suggesting the tram would be mixed with traffic. My ideal situation would be a tram running in a centre median, and station platforms with cross walks for pedestrians to reach the real sidewalk. The 80-165-435 (They're treated as one service by the STM) is the most heavily used bus route on the island. Over 60k use those 3 routes daily, compared to the 40k that use the 139 and 505 on Pie-IX which is getting a 300 Million dollar BRT project.
cont'd 1/2
>>950532
You electrify Mascouche and increase station density to 1km between stations to service St.Michel and Montreal-Nord. The original plans for the metro called for a line under Pie-IX and heading east to Montreal-Nord.
Its stupid to spend billions on now infrastructure that just competes with existing transport infrastructure and devalues Vaudreuil-Hudson rolling stock.
Why does the expansion of service on the deux-montagnes line need to exist as an SLR project? Why can't we use our electrified rolling stock, with very high passenger capacity?
Also the Airport extension is useless. The 747 is much much cheaper and accomplishes the same thing.
>>950552
It is a better idea to maintain and expand our current commuter EMU fleet while expanding AMT infrastructure, not building competing infrastructure. The idea of a city wide tram-train that services primarily suburbs with atrocious public transport usage doesn't even make sense.
>>950742
The RER won't even connect with the metro thats the point. The stations are all "potential" stages which probably means they're not happening.
We don't need to diversify Greater Montreal's transportation. Metro for the Island, Commuter rail, with better headways (and whatever it entails to achieve such headways) and maybe BRT with a cheaper model along major arteries. Tram if we are feeling extra good about public transport.
There are higher priorities than DDO and pointe-claire.
The NDG, CSL, Hampstead and Montreal-West area has 100k people, and higher ridership levels than the west island.
The blue line desperately needs expanded east to Pie-IX at a minimum to serve as an efficient connection to the BRT and west to Montreal-West station to serve NDG.
Also the Orange line needs to connect with Bois Franc and form a loop to Laval in the future.
From 1966-1985 we built a shitton of metro stations. The economic recessions have sapped funding but Le Weed Man said he wanted to splash billions on infrastructure so we'll see if Montreal can secure some nice transit solutions to its core, not suburbs,
>>950684
I cribbed the Yellow Line extensions directly from the Wikipedia page citing past plans to extend into Longueuil-Boucherville (through cheap cut-and-cover I would assume) and to McGill west. The Yellow Line is ultimately the best and highest option as far as core capacity relief; as of now it is little more than a shuttle from U. Sherbrooke.
>>950738
>tram-train system on a mainline that is at capacity
And is the SLR plan not built to an even greater scope, with 2-3 min headways on the mainline? How is SLR not necessarily going to be a tram-train given the Mascouche branch? A unified, robust signalling system as found in Germany is absolutely necessary to ensure either my plan or CDPQ's is actually workable.
Overhead electrification of freight mainlines for pax use is prevalent throughout the world, and N. America in New Jersey, Philadelphia (>>950478), and Connecticut. It is not a operational nightmare moreso than actually running frequent service would necessitate better signalling and passing sidings in line with world standards; GO Transit only now realizes this. I don't know who would pay for it, but electric infrastructure is fundamentally not a major cost driver and is fairly cheap, while offering indomitably greater performance, enhanced by AMT's very straight track geometry.
Ottawa is ordering Alstom's Citadis Spirit; their longest 4-car model holds 340 passengers max. CDPQ states 150 pax per car for 600/4 cars, which is pretty close to what the MR-90 currently offers and hopefully means something more substantial than a greenfield LRT. But right now, with their figures, at rush hour a 4-car set can only match, not surpass the current MR-90 effective capacity, with headways decreased from 20-30 (not 40) to 6-12. If you really think they will order enough trainsets to couple multiple sets together at rush hour then you're more optimistic then I am. We just don't have enough definitive information.
cont
>>950738
There's no definite info, but the Youtube video heavily implies terminating at Centrale. Even so, a three-to-one branch pairing is heavily imbalanced as D-M needs much more than 1/3 the frequency of Brossard. To solve it one must add Mont-St-Hilaire to the equation or realize that a Kirkland-Brossard line does perfectly well on its own; D-M can be independently handled and improved by AMT as is needed.
And again, V-H track addition looks just as possible on the ground as it does aerially; you have not given me an iota of reasoning why it's not.
>>950742
Um, there doesn't exist an alignment dropping straight down into the Dorval terminals. This two-station (really one) underground extension is the purest definition of waste and is detrimental capacity-limiting branching at best. It's also a substantially longer route to downtown than either the 747 or V-H line.
>>950895
Building everything to the same standard is always going to be more efficient and easier to maintain. Sure, the New York Subway and all the other old metros work just fine, but they're consolidations of many transit companies. Nobody would build a system like that from scratch. So, if you're building new stuff, why not keep it consistent?
>>950792
Buses serve the density needs of Longeuil residents. The yellow line gives them access to the entire montreal metro network. They're quite plugged in as far transport integration is concerned.
>>950895
It's not an obsession with sticking with existing systems. It's common sense. Had the MTA been in charge of the rapid transit lines since day one they would have used the same rolling stock throughout. They've tried to integrate as best they can with what they've been forced to amalgamate (2 systems with a total of 3 networks) But that doesn't mean we have to start dividing capital investment between modes in this day and age. The actual connections with the montreal metro are "potential" the chances of them all being built are next to none.
>>950555
Looking at your map your extension of the yellow line into the downtown core is a bit redundant because with that much through running on the downtown section of your S-Bahn system it would provide the relief the orange/green line downtown segments need.
