Post news, pictures, videos of trams or light rail.
>Pic is an Alstom Citadis 402 in Tours, France.
The EVO1 by Pragoimex, is being tested out in Prauge.
http://www.radio.cz/en/section/business/prague-transit-company-looking-for-feedback-on-new-evo1
The NBA All-Star Game happened last Saturday (February 14), Nike operated a sneaker store inside a streetcar.
http://www.blogto.com/fashion_style/2016/02/this_is_what_riding_nikes_streetcar_shoe_store_is_like/
>>924508
Bombardier did a good job shitting themselves with these.
CAF Urbos in Budapest
Dublin LUAS on 9 arches bridge
>>924525
In Edmonton, Bombardier won the contract to build the trains for the Valley Line. They will be Flexity Freedoms.
http://globalnews.ca/news/2514102/bombardier-says-it-has-been-awarded-part-of-edmontons-valley-line-lrt-project/
Bombardier NGT12DD in Dresden.
Apparently based on Flexity Classic XXL trams but modified for use in and around Dresden (able to make tighter turns and go up steeper hills according to Wikipedia).
>>924533
Way more interesting in Dresden though are these blue Cargo Trams.
VW built a factory for luxury cars (Phaetons and Bentleys) in Dresden and heavy truck traffic would have been problematic so VW instead decided to work together with the public transport provider in Dresden and now operates these Cargo Trams on their network.
Addis Ababa, Ethiopia.
The vehicles are made by a Chinese company, CNR Changchun.
>>924534
Too bad the factory in Downtown Dresden will stop producing this spring and thus make the Cargo Tram unnecessary.
Caen, France.
Not a tram, but a guided bus.
It will be converted into a tram network by the end of 2019, due to its unreliability.
http://www.railwaygazette.com/news/single-view/view/guided-bus-to-tram-plan-confirmed.html
Actually it is supposed to reopen in 2019 so they will probably just keep using the CargoTram then.
Trams in the Hague
>>924525
>Bombardier did a good job shitting themselves with these courtesy of shitty Mootxican-made parts and Bombardier being Bombardier
FTFY
>>924530
And according to the other TTC thread in /n/ it will be used for the Eglinton Crosstown and Finch LRT as well, and speaking of which do we even have a working prototype?
>>924565
Has a single major manufacturer in the West not shit the bed recently? Every major rolling stock builder have screwed up big orders recently.
>>924508
I love the design dissonance of that system.
>we're paying a premium for APS in order to preserve the historic beauty of an area
>oh yeah we're also using rolling stock that looks like it was pulled from Tron
>>924508
I've got flashbacks from my childhood and my modern trams I used to draw as a little kid.
Basically I thought about an all black flat shiny fronts way before it became cool thanks to iPhone.
Düsseldorf will open a tram tunnel the coming weekend. Unlike the previous tunnel lines, this one will be for lowfloor cars.
> non-grade-separated rail
>>924565
>do we even have a working prototype?
No. Metrolinx was expecting one last year since the ION in Waterloo is practically done. Bombardier is late.
>>924632
>autism
Bybanen in Bergen, Norway.
Uses Stadler Variotrams.
>POV from Nesttun to Byparken (27 mins)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9O1KvY9uk5U
>>924694
Not at all. It's a practical consideration. Rail that shares right of way with auto traffic is objectively inferior.
>>924733
you still sound like an autist
>>924733
cars are inferior, just try
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3bNd82tbdIc
>>924748
You still sound like an illiterate nigger who denies reality.
>>924748
Were you going to bother saying something useful? I mean, nothing you've said has any relevance here. It's not exactly controversial to say that rail with its own right of way is preferable to rail with shared right of way.
>>924749
Gotta love those American style TV news.
It's not even some backwaters local UHF-station, it's freaking CNN.
An Ultra Low Floor tram in Vienna, Austria.
CAF Urbos in Stockholm, 3 and 4 car models being used depending on route.
>>924992
what are those CAFs like?
TW 3000, Hannover
>>925007
wow that's one ugly ass tram you got there.
>>924917
All trains in Austria now have blinking lights and beeping above closing doors.
It sucks.
A Flexity Outlook Cityrunner tram in Vancouver, BC.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vancouver_Downtown_Historic_Railway
Kinki Sharyo Type 7
Boston
>>925007
Why aren't those single ended like the previous generation?
![Skuska-zeleznicneho-rozchodu[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/229kuL8.jpg "Skuska-zeleznicneho-rozchodu[1].jpg")
A curiosity from Slovakia's capital Bratislava.
There's a tram system in Bratislava with narrow 1000mm gauge. There was a decision during socialist times that all tram systems in Czechoslovakia would become a standard 1435mm because there would be only one tram model produced and also it was supposed to have some other minor advantages. Well, nothing has been really done to rebuild Bratislava's tram system to 1435 gauge, it would cost a lot of money and honestly, I don't think it would really make much sense.
But, the decision was still there and some influential people still wanted to make this happen until this times.
So, when it was finally decided to build a new line to Petržalka district a few years ago, it was also decided that the line would have 2 gauges - 1000/1435 mm. The official reason - there will be some sort of tram-train operated on the line in the indeterminate future. The unofficial reason - some old influential technicist nerds wanted to make their dream come true and have finally a 1435 gauge tram in their home city.
So the new line which will be put into service in few months now has 4 rails in each direction from which 2 will stay useless, probably forever. The project was changed during the construction and the tram-train idea has been abandoned. Mainly because the European officials which are providing a lot of money into this saw it as a waste of money, which it is.
But, the 1435 gauge nerds didn't want to give up so easily. When there will be no tram-train or re-gauging, then put the standard gauge into use at least once. Once in their lifetime they want to see their dream - a 1435mm tram in Bratislava! And so they enforced that on both gauge tracks a test run had to be executed so the line would get an approval of service.
Ladies and gentlemen, I introduce you an absolutely rare and unique sight - a 1435 mm gauge tram in Bratislava, for the first and probably also last time in history.
This test run happened yesterday night.
>>925117
![Prejazd-normalnorozchodnej-T3-po-srdcovke-s-doplnenou-kolajovou-konstrukciou[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/HofSPvr.jpg "Prejazd-normalnorozchodnej-T3-po-srdcovke-s-doplnenou-kolajovou-konstrukciou[1].jpg")
>>925117
there had to be done some temporary changes at junctions which were not prepared for the service on the standard gauge
more pics at link
https://imhd.sk/ba/galeria/update/9861/skuska-rozchodu-1435
>>925117
Well, one would think a line as long as that would require some new rolling stock, will that be in metre gauge?
Are there depots that can handle 1435?
>>925152
No, nothing apart that single double gauge line. It's connected to the network which is 1000 only so even though there were new trams required for this line, they were made narrow gauged
>>925167
Now that gauge conversions are in the talks, can you clarify what exactly is happening in Liberec.
I read that the Jablonec line has been closed for major repair, more long sleepers installed?
Also I managed to dig so much that double tracking has reached to Lékárna, is it dual gauge or at least long sleepers?
>>925167
spainfag here, I feel ya slovakbro, around these parts politicians are also constantly making some bullshit projects just because they feel like it. Our 2nd gen tram is split in two separate systems since it's inception in 2004 (I bet there's not many cities with two separate unconnected tram systems), because our previous mayor was a backwards asstard who didn't like trams so he did everything he could to keep the two systems from being completed. Our new mayor is trying to fix this, but a lot of damage has been done, that other tard remodeled the avenue along which the tram should run so that more people would be against ripping it up again. He also bought three biarticulated buses which cost more than twice what regular articulated buses cost, even though they have only about 20% more capacity, with the idea that buses like that should replace the intended tram line. Now we have three of those monsters, which makes them basically useless since they're not enough for any line to use exclusively biarticulated units. Also they've had many issues with reliability, on one occasion one of those buses broke down blocking the tram tracks. Also since the city isn't laid out for large vehicles they can barely maneuver, so they can only run on very few lines which don't have any sharp turns, and they handle awfully. It's like all the disadvantages of buses and trams combined. The most pathetic part of these buses is how they tried to make them look like trams.
thoughts on the gothenburg tram fiasco?
>>925179
>I bet there's not many cities with two separate unconnected tram systems
Paris has like 8.
>>925185
>AnsaldoBreda.
>>925178
as far as i know:
double gauge still only from Fügnerova to U Lomu stop. Long sleepers should be installed on the whole last year repaired section from U Lomu to Vratislavice, výhybna and also from Jablonec, měnírna to Jablonec, Brandl.
Also the section from U Lomu to Lékárna got double tracked.
Check here:
http://boveraclub.drat.eu/index.php?page=home&read=2015071521411513
http://boveraclub.drat.eu/index.php?page=home&read=2015070722450713
http://boveraclub.drat.eu/index.php?page=home&read=2015070723064713
>>925179
czechbro actually
Thouse double bendy buses have always been expensive because their production is not "serial" and you can always sell them away after all.
>>925190
Moscow has 2 separated parts as well I think.
>>925179
The two lines of Luas in Dublin are separated, but they are building an extension on the Green Line so it can intersect with the Red Line.
>>925202
Possibly St Petersburg too. I'm not sure if the trackage at the city center is still navigable.
>mention that my city has separate tram systems which few cities do
>unleash storm of autism
I love this board
>>925209
I guess so. Still it will require some bigger investments as long sections are integrated into road and covered with tarmac.
There was also an idea of connecting tram to railway and operating a tram-train system but this was abandoned.
>>925249
We love you too :^)
old ones (still in use)
>>925262
also in use
>>925263
newest ones
the city is belgrade, serbia
>>924705
it looks upsidedown lol
PCC in Antwerp, Belgium.
>>925179
>I bet there's not many cities with two separate unconnected tram systems
Rome.
>>925265
Designed specifically to not allow anyone escape from under it.
I'm going to give you a dump on me city's trams.
No 1 will be the oldest ones in use.
These bad boys were the first ones to be introduced after the war AFAIK (alas I might be wrong, not much of a tram guy). What I know for sure is that they're nicknamed "kabanosy" (sort of a sausage or whatever).
>>925337
No 2 is the second (I know, right) model of the post war era that I am aware of. They used to be the most common back in the day, nowadays not so much.
Nicknamed "akwaria" ("aquariums") thanks to their large ass windows. Also, not very handicapped friendly.
Curio: they used to have a hard cast plastic seats that were surprisingly very comfy, even on longer trips.
>>925339
With number 3 the future entered the city. Partially low floored but still pretty fancy with them high-raise front and back-end segments. Also loud as all fuck.
Nicknamed "pancerniki" ("dreadnoughts") because they looked menacing and bulletproof.
>>925340
Now this is some sick hybrid, sleek and modern and yet still high floor with separate carts. Overall pretty nice.
Nicknamed "delfiny" ("dolphins") because of, as the rumour have it, the words of praise coming directly from the City Trams Company's director - apparently he said that "they move gracefully like dolphins".
>>925341
The newest ones come from the PESA company and not only are cart-less (or whatever you call them, one long cart) and completely low floored, they also very spacious, comfy and have nice AC systems (which most older ones lacked). Apparently there is a few models that basically look the same (run of the mill modern sleek thing) and the pic related as the only distinctive one.
I am not aware of them having any sort of nickname other than people calling them Pesas (derived from the producers name).
Heard they were supposed to be used in Berlin too, so feel free to confirm or call me a moron.
Also, upon further research, I learned that there was more specific models than just those 5 (six if you count the Pesa ones I mentioned but not posted), but on me defence I'll say it's supposed to be a shortened overview of different looks of them trams used here, so there's that.
Cheers.
>>925339
I just found a picture of that seat.
I know it looks like ass, but they were really comfortable. The seat itself was shaped so that there was a ""dale"" thing for your asscheeks (sloping down towards the back) and the backrest gave a very good support (note the line in the middle which offered a refuge for ones spine, so that the whole back could be rested and you wouldn't risk grinding your spine bones on the hard ass plastic of the seat).
However, if you wanted to sit in any way other than the designed one it would be almost impossible and very uncomfortable.
Over and out.
>>925344
I remember that seat from my visit of Poland very well. It felt like something tried to pull my spin out, lol
How much should a tram driver be paid?
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/luas-strike-what-are-the-demands-of-employees-1.2538756
>>925337
>kabanosy
I'm going to make you sad by telling that Finnish marketmen stole that name for a completely generic "grill sausage".
>>925343
>cartless
You mean articulated design or no fixed axles? Seems to have turning bogies at least.
>>925364
You were using it wrong.
>>925369
>You mean articulated design or no fixed axles? Seems to have turning bogies at least.
It has it all, just a uni-body design with them joints. Whatever.
>generic "grill sausage"
>kabanos
They're not even similar looking!
>>925368
It definitely depends on the working environment and the ammount of hazard they put themselfes into. I mean, a tram driver in bloody Gmunden has it easier than a tram driver in Vienna, right?
I think that in Prague they are slightly over average income which means about 1,000 Euro/month. I guess that is OK.
>>925373
>You were using it wrong.
Please, tell me, how could I use a damn seat "wrong"?
>>924575
The rolling stock industry has problems getting on with the times. When winning a contract they basically reinvent the wheel over and over again and allow the customers to change the design too many times and way into production. The rolling stock industry has a lot to learn from the automotive industry where they keep reusing platforms and share it between different brands.
Oh and internal politics and nepotism is ensuring incompetent people stay in leading positions and get promoted. And it doesn't get better with the site rivalry undermining and trying to get the other sites closed and ineffective outsourcing used as a tool to achieve that.
>>925343
>Heard they were supposed to be used in Berlin too, so feel free to confirm or call me a moron.
They do kind of look similar but the Berlin system uses Bombardier (ADtranz) Flexitys.
Bielefeld tram autist reporting in.
>four lines
>a little over 30km
>disappears underground in the city center
>high floor
>meter gauge
There's a whole bunch of nonsense going on at the moment.
>newest tram model is so fat that it can only be used on lines 2 and 4
>other lines and rushhour reinforcements are only served by older vehicles
>line 1 goes right through a busy street with parking spots on both sides
>people park on the tracks sometimes and cause extreme delays
>>925190
Depending how you count Seattle has like 4
Tacoma Link
Central Link
SLUT
And the new Capital Hill Streetcar
Also, the monorail.
Although I think there are plans to build a line through Downtown to link the SLUT and Capital Hill into one line.
>>925461
pic related is the street where people park on the tracks.
>line 2 recently got an extension
>1 km
>two stops
>from nowhere, through nowhere, to nowhere
>terminus now named after a part of the city which it doesn't even serve
>>925464
Pic related is the station in the middle of nowhere. It's called Buschbachtal (bush creek valley) and it sure looks like it.
>>925461
>Advertisement in English
Bielefeld conspirators are really not putting in the effort these days.
>>925467
It's the title of a show which was ripped directly off an American one IIRC
>>925461
Does Bielefield traffic authority have its own quick response vehicle?
Helsinki "pioneer vehicle", its main job is to remove misparked cars, hence the menacing name and appearance. They used to have just a normal van, but the road authority simply isn't fit for such rush orders.
85€ a pop.
Coupling rush trailers.
Sweeper car at work. Converted from 1930s two axle cars. Preservetionist associations are lusting over their trucks and controllers.
Little railgrinder on its way to somewhere.
And a lost ballast tamper.
A learner driver managed to get stuck into a neutral section.
>>925479
I don't know actually. I guess the fire brigade or police takes care of such issues.
A couple of weeks ago, some idiot driver managed to steer his car onto the tracks in a place where the tram has its own right of way and a separated track bed. I have no idea how you pull that off.
>>925497
Lol, noob
A tower car that's rail-enabled.
Wintage tower car repairing war damage.
Rail enable tower car is an important thing, this will allow cheaper vignole profiled sleeper track construction in the future.
A heritage unit. Foamers call it "replica" because it was restored from such a poor condition, so few original parts were available plus several things that really would have needed better touch were made quite cheaply. The bogies example are just boxed hidden bogies from a 50s vagon.
Another heritage unit, ASEA model wide spread throughout northern europe. With open trailer that also was brought back from beyond death.
The car actually has motors from a 20 year younger asea, because the original motors were used for something else when the car was withdrawn.
>>925546
This is the trailer before restoration.
Not much original either, but the important part, that is the truck and most metal parts were salvageable.
The deluxe charter unit of transit authority, the above train is actually owned and operated by a private company.
They also have this 50s bogie car and a trailer, more suitable for tours. The longer one is more like for presentations and such. The private company also has one of these.
Phew, quite a big prestige fleet, I'd say.
There are also several units in static display that are more or less driveable and city museum's collection has more that are "in found condition".
>>925368
>Posting a link that doesn't mention how much they earn
derp
http://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/luas-drivers-very-sorry-about-strike-says-union-spokesman-721139.html
The figures quoted are the pay scale they are currently on.
>>925469
Yeah I know. That doesn't excuse it in my eyes.
Stadler Tangos in Basel, Switzerland.
Their tram network extends over into France and Germany.
>>925179
Lines 12 and 21 survived the massive teardown in 1967.
Line 7 was resurrected in the early 1990s.
Line 22 came to be in the late 1990s and was gradually extended northwest to meet line 12.
Lines 12 and 22 are connected, but requires a home-run through the depot. Initial plans had them merged as branches, but NIBYs didn't want their island polluted with rail, so the trams have to sneak under a motorway and only graze the island. The same NIMBYs now ask why the tram only stops so far off from everything on the island.
Line 22 is being extended east to meet but not connect to the lines 25&26 interurban. There are ideas to convert the interurban to use the same rolling stock as the rest of the standard gauge light surface rail.
Line 7 will get a branch towards line 21 to share facilities.
Metrolink, Manchester UK
>>925629
and route map
>>925631
cute
>>925620
>Line 7 will get a branch towards line 21 to share facilities.
Is that still so? I read from SkyScraperCity the project would be "dropped".
Also
>tvärspår från Sickla till Värtahamnen
Does this mean as in from Solna or or under the sea from Sickla?
>>925636
I'm not certain what you've been reading, I mostly ogle the Swedish Tramway Society's forum every so often.
I only get it to the usual delays, and a random exclusion from the latest national infrastructure investment program.
Then there's an idea to build a rail tunnel next to the oft proposed motorway tunnel that would complete a ring around Stockholm. So it would be an underwater tunnel.
>>924508
it's like an old computer on tracks
beautiful
Alstom Citadis 302s in Reims, France.
Built in 1907 as a regular streetcar.
Still going strong.
Where is the line drawn between trams/streetcars and light rail?
>>925773
Nowhere. The parameters of transit terminology in English are very vaguely defined. Everything from a little at-grade streetcar system to an extensive light-metro system can be defined as "light rail".
>>925773
depends on your local politicians and their prefered terminology
>>925773
Even worse, you didn't even include the infamous "interurban". Some were little more than tramlines extended to nearby country side population concentrations and some were essentially local train systems with full grade separation, especially the most documented ones that saw the 50s and 60s.
Only thing I see in common with most systems, is the inclusion of cow catcher in the motor coaches.
Do American streetcars need to comply to some sort of road legislation governing their lenght or something?
>>925773
>trams/streetcars= shared row
>light rail= own row
>>925842
Well I guess you don't have much experience with any of them, Mr. Internet expert
Protip: see San Francisco
>>925773
There are even heavy rail trams like in Karlsruhe.
>>925842
What if there's stretches with shared row and own row?
B T F O
T
F
O
>>924535
Either the niggers don't have foresight or they've gotten raw deal from the chinks.
Not only that they use tram for mass transport in one of the biggest city (more like oversized slum) in east africa, the viadicts themselves cannot support heavier rolling stocks for proper metro transit
>>924733
Trams are quite diverse. From a single-car streetcar that is essentially an oversized bus (like most streetcars in Japan and Hong Kong), to a proper light rail that has it's own signalling system and frequency(thus, passengership) rivalling the subways
For trams everything is possible. This is a hybrid tram. It can run as an ordinary electric tram. And can with just flipping a switch it becomes an diesel electric rail-bus. To run on tracks also used by some cute tourist steam trains.
This bickering is pointless. Tram is just a different way of referring to light rail, and vice versa. Light rail refers to any rail transport with low capacity, and that's just what a tram is, a rail line with small vehicles, not very high speed, at times not grade separated or even no row, and thus low capacity.
There's a certain inflection to the word tram/streetcar of something more similar to traditional street railways, with no ROW or ROW with no grade separation (exclusive tram or tram/bus lane for example), while light rail is often used to refer to newer systems with more grade separation. But all this is just splitting hairs, like >>925988 said one line can turn from typical non-row street-running tram into row'd line.
and there are also tram-trains
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tram-train
>>925947
Eh, they're just starting out with any means of public transportation at all. Takes time to build up experience and shiet.
De Blasio is proposing this tram between Queens and Brooklyn, and, predictably, the cagers are all whining about "but we won't be able to park on the rails"
>>925986
This pleases my autism
A Spanish public transport woe:
Here's a Citadis 302 on the unused Jaén Tramway.
It was completed in 2011, and was briefly opened to the public for a trial; though it was never used for regular service.
Also here's a POV:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gZmPh3b6yfM
>>926128
Its current use.
>>924508
>tfw from Tours
>traffic in the center of the city paralyzed for over a year
>when it should have been 7 monthes
>a quater of the stores in there had to close due to lower passage in the streets
>tram covers the north-south axis, that was very easily covered by busses due to road configuration
>still a lot of bus lines going north-south, only a couple going either center to east or center to west, none that does a complete run along the Loire
>municipality still in buttloads of debts
>not getting any better as few people actually use the tram on a regular basis since there are bus lines closer to them and their workplace and because of the price
>traffic put on hold for monthes after some retards set fire under a bridge during new years eve
>these cringeworthy announces at every station
Don't let its pretty face fool you, this thing singlehandedly ruined periurban life in the city for 10 years and counting
>>926147
>diminution de l'activité du réseau quelques allées avant le début des travaux pour économiser un peu, suppression de plusieurs lignes scolaires et lignes distantes, ainsi que d'une large partie du service de soirée et de nuit
>diminution du trafic de l'ouest/est vers le centre pendant les travaux tout en maintenant le trafic nord-sud assuré par le tram
>conservation du même modèle après la mise en service du tram
Je me souviens d'une époque lointaine où on pouvait prendre le bus à 21h pour quitter la ville et rentrer chez soi. Maintenant, du moment que tu n'habite pas en centre-ville, le dernier bus est à 19h30 ou 20h au plus tard.
>>926152
Waouh, c'est sérieux ça!
N'ayant jamais visité Tours je ne connais presque rien de la situation politique; Pourrais-tu expliquer comment vous êtes arrivé à cette situation?
>>925947
Subways are AT LEAST 10 times more expensive to build, yet the capacity of a decent light rail system can be up to about half of a subway line. Even an elevated will likely be many times as expensive as a tram.
For poor cities it's a much better choice to invest in light rail, you can spread your investment further (albeit thinner), and you can get good results in a reasonable time frame.
Would heavy rail be more effective? Sure, but it would set those people back such amounts of money that investing in light rail will allow much more results (even if not as good results) than investing in heavy rail.
I think this aversion some people have to light rail in large cities and implying that only heavy rail is a good choice is an obsolete mentality which comes from times when trams weren't as efficient as modern light railways.
>>926144
Buses are often operated by private companies as concessions, and bus lobbies have a lot of influence. This is an inheritance of Franco's dictatorship, where the bus industry was built up to quickly cover transportation needs not being met by ageing tram systems. I don't know why they bet on buses rather than trams, my guess would be that it was a more readily available technology.
In the 1960's bus builders already started pushing for quick closure of tram systems so they'd sell more buses, and over time their lobbies have retained a lot of leverage.
I'm familiar with the case of my city, which bought second hand PCC cars from Washington DC in 1963 and 1965, and closed down the last line (excepting a heritage line) in 1971, when some of those PCCs had seen only 6 years of service. In the day, those PCCs were the most modern tram vehicle that had ever run in Barcelona, and together with PCC-inspired spanish trams from the 1940's they were able to improve the public perception of the tram system, which all the way into the 60's was using wooden vehicles from the 1920's. The mayor who had always been against trams was considering keeping some lines outside the city center, but in the end it was the bus lobby's pressure which was responsible for the decision of shutting it all down.
Pic related is one of the PCCs we got. Note the twin headlights. The mayor didn't like how "tram"-y they looked with the single headlight, so he had two lights installed. I do like the look they got from it, tho.
>>926155
The distinction between 'heavy' and 'light' rail is complete nonsense anyway. If the system has its own right of way and has long platforms to accommodate 4+ car trains then it might as well be considered a 'heavy' rail system. The vehicle type used on a system really doesn't mater for classification; if it looks like a metro it is a metro.
>>926161
Pretty much true, although one key difference can be priority at intersection. Heavy rail has absolute priority at road crossings, while light rail generally doesn't.
>>926159
>Buses are often operated by private companies as concessions
Oh for fucks sake, why? What is it with Europeans and bidding out bus operations?
>I don't know why they bet on buses rather than trams, my guess would be that it was a more readily available technology.
I'm guessing there was also a Spanish company that built buses whereas trams had to be imported from abroad (thus why the PCCs used in Spain were built like the American ones)?
On the subject of tram system closures: how worn were the systems by the time they were retired? While I don't mean to ignore the role of the lobbies that were pushing for 'bustitution' of networks, I'm curious to know if the networks were also closed for technical reasons. In the US, plenty of networks were abandoned due to the poor state of their infrastructure.
>>926163
That depends on the system. I've seen several 'light' rail systems where vehicles have absolute priority over all other types of traffic.
>>926168
>Oh for fucks sake, why? What is it with Europeans and bidding out bus operations?
No idea, but desu I see more of a problem in a general lack of a unified public transit agencies rather than bidding out operations. In Barcelona it's the tram which is run by a public operator, but together with the commuter lines owned and operated by the regional government they're the best working public transit operations. It's the lack of a unified agency which generates this absurd competition between different operators and transport systems, because they all think they can get a bigger slice of the pie and there's noone with the authority to tell them to fuck off.
>I'm guessing there was also a Spanish company that built buses whereas trams had to be imported from abroad (thus why the PCCs used in Spain were built like the American ones)?
Pretty much this. There had been tram-bulders in the early days, but after the civil war the country was pretty fucked up, likely there was more bus-making infrastructure available than there wasfor trams. I know some people who know more about this, I'll try to find out more details.
>>926168
>On the subject of tram system closures: how worn were the systems by the time they were retired?
So-so. A big problem was always getting more vehicles. In Madrid they bought Fiat trams from italy in the 1940's, while Barcelona had some trams made locally by a subsidiary of the tram operator. These were designed and built entirely in Spain during ww2, the order was placed in 1940 and they entered service in 1944.
I think after that the only "new" trams that still entered service where Barcelona's PCCs.
The infrastructure itself wasn't in too bad a shape, when by the late 50's and early 60's the economic situation was becoming less dire they had enough resources to reasonably keep up tram infrastructure. They didn't really have much of a choice, since subways hadn't been able to build many extensions before that, so despite everything trams where still the backbone of transportation in many cities. Funnily, Barcelona saw new stretches of tram line open as late as 1965, and a new tram line (along existing track) opened in 1970, and ran for less than a year.
So long story short, due to dependence on trams, infrastructure wasn't too shabby, so it wasn't a significant reason for the closures.
>>926179
Aux dernières nouvelles, ils essaient de limiter leurs dépenses de fonctionnement en rendant les lignes extérieures moins rapides et moins fréquentes, et rajoutent à la place des bus scolaires (vu qu'une grande partie du trafic sur ces lignes vient des lycéens et étudiants des zones rurbaines/dortoirs).
Du coup, ça va toujours relativement mal.
et pendant ce temps, Angers prévoir une deuxième ligne de tram.
>>926174
frenchies taking over ENG threads?
>>926172
>It's the lack of a unified agency which generates this absurd competition between different operators and transport systems, because they all think they can get a bigger slice of the pie and there's noone with the authority to tell them to fuck off.
Who even regulates the system then? Does the regional or municipal government set up the bids? What is the limit of their power over the operators (ie: do they control fares, routing, frequency, etc.)? I'm surprised that there isn't at least something resembling Transport for London to oversee operations.
>I know some people who know more about this, I'll try to find out more details.
Thanks.
>>926176
>So long story short, due to dependence on trams, infrastructure wasn't too shabby, so it wasn't a significant reason for the closures.
Interesting. Based on what you said in your post I'm guessing the Madrid and Barcelona subway networks only started to get these big expansion projects in the 70s?
>>926176
That's the Spanish case, I'd say most places the systems were neglected from around mid 50s onwards and then closed in phases. Many had substantial maintenance debt after the war years, specially as you say, in rolling stock.
Germany exculuded, where they essentially had to rebuild the systems due bombing damage.
>>926185
Not really, but when you visit the local forums you unedrstand. The discussion is mostly English until a huge flamewar breaks out between the natives.
>>926186
>I'm surprised that there isn't at least something resembling Transport for London to oversee operations.
I wasn't quite clear, sorry. There usually are some type of organ which oversee public transit, it's just that their power is often very limited. Fares are generally set by these agencies, especially in larger areas where there's more than one transport system and integrated fares. But that's mostly it, bus lines are set by the operators, so they focus on lines which have high demand and make them money, while offering only the bare minimum of service on other lines (often more than 30 min. frequency in urban areas).
In Barcelona this has lead to the local bus operator competing directly with the tram system, with lines that are almost exactly parallel to tram lines, but reaching into the city center which trams can't for lack of tram line. Transit operators also make money proportional to how many riders they get, so the incentive is for offering too much service for some lines, and too little on others. In large part our two tram systems haven't gotten the central part done because it's a street where the bus operator makes a shitload of money, thanks to buses being full to the brim, and so frequent that they actually slow down due to bus lane congestion. A situation which logically calls for an upgrade, like the planned tram line, instead becomes an attractive asset for the bus operator, which makes money by fucking over bus riders.
In Madrid this problem isn't as big, since there's only bus and subway, and they're both public operators governed by the same agency. But again, level of service varies widely according to how profitable corridors are.
To all this, it's obviously not like you need to get the same level of service on lesser travelled routes, but it's just that the variations are way too much, like I said there's cities where purely urban services have frequencies ranging from under 10 minutes to more than 30.
>>926186
>Interesting. Based on what you said in your post I'm guessing the Madrid and Barcelona subway networks only started to get these big expansion projects in the 70s?
There were some expansions in the 50's-60's, but subway growth exploded in the 70's-80's, eventually going into full overkill mode, especially Madrid, which now can barely pay to keep up this much subway and gets rush hour frequencies of 7-8 minutes.
>>926199
>That's the Spanish case, I'd say most places the systems were neglected from around mid 50s onwards and then closed in phases.
Yes, I was referring specifically to the spanish case, which was a bit atypical due to the fascist dictatorship leading to a closed economy and lack of marshall plan gib moniez.
>>926209
Thanks for the detailed write up. So who are the main 'players' in this fight? Are they multinationals like Transdev or are they mostly local companies with influence in the council?
Also, was there ever a serious proposal to nationalize or at the very least reform the bus system in Barcelona? I would be surprised if no one had proposed extending public ownership to them considering the public sector already operates the railways.
>>926222
>Thanks for the detailed write up. So who are the main 'players' in this fight? Are they multinationals like Transdev or are they mostly local companies with influence in the council?
Nah, it's all local battles. Dunno if any big bus makers have any influence, but it doesn't look like it. Alstom is behind our tram system, and their spanish branch is hanging by a thread and doesn't have much slack to enter into these issues.
>Also, was there ever a serious proposal to nationalize or at the very least reform the bus system in Barcelona? I would be surprised if no one had proposed extending public ownership to them considering the public sector already operates the railways.
Bus system in Barcelona is publicly owned and operated, only the tram and some secondary bus operations are private, also most (if not all) interurban buses.
The bus network is being reformed as we speak, they're reorganizing lines accordin to an orthogonal scheme. In fact on the 29th another phase of this is put in service. This reform however has been painfully slow, this is like the fourth phase since the project began like two years ago. With every phase only a handful of lines have been implemented. However, for the orthogonal scheme to work you need pretty good frequency, otherwise transferring between bus lines just doesn't work. And since the city has been too fucktarded to take some serious measures to have better average speeds on buses (It's at 12-13km/h atm), this means that these new lines need lots of buses, and other less important lines have seen their frequency cut to 30 minutes or more in some cases. Also they've been revising the new lines as they went along, so there have been some sudden yet significant changes, one of these being that two horizontal lines cross each other, thus ruining the system of progressive numbering for each line.
>>926249
>Bus system in Barcelona is publicly owned and operated, only the tram and some secondary bus operations are private, also most (if not all) interurban buses.
Ah. I'm sorry but I'm getting confused. Who exactly is competing against the tram and lobbying the construction of the connector? The public bus operator or one of the companies which runs under the banner of the public agency?
>>926249
>Bus system in Barcelona is publicly owned and operated, only the tram and some secondary bus operations are private,
That's insane, I tell you.
Usually the dynamics are other way around. The city is having it's trams and or metro at the center and is doing anything it can to prevent private bus operators running direct lines to the center, as usually they would be going inside about in the same corridors as the rail.
>>926259
Sorry, I express myself awfully.
The public bus operator which operates the main bus system competes with the privately operated tram, and lobbying against the connection.
Or at least it was like that until a few months ago. We now have a new mayor, and the public bus system gets a new general manager. Luckily, this time the party in power is pro-tram, but their majority in city hall is very narrow.
>That's insane, I tell you.
>Usually the dynamics are other way around
I know, the whole story about the tram system in this city is completely surreal. Lately there's been lots of noise about this because the new mayor has the tram connection as a high priority, and NIMBYs are up in arms about it. It's really depressing when you learn the retarded opinions of people on this. I mean, you can be anti-public transit, w/e, but lots of people pretend to be pro-transit and yet say bullshit like this tram is unnecessary and a waste of money, even though it gives rail coverage to several conurbated towns that lack metro or commuter rail, and buses along the avenue where it should run are always packed to the brim. And those same people will defend wasting 16bn on a fuckhueg subway line half of which is unjustifiable.
>>926276
Thanks for the clarification. So why was the tram not just operated by the bus operator from the start?
>It's really depressing when you learn the retarded opinions of people on this
Have the people backing the extension tried convincing them by showing them examples of how trams elsewhere have massively raised property values?
>>926277
>So why was the tram not just operated by the bus operator from the start?
I don't really know. I think they bid out the full concession for building, maintaining and operating the tram so they wouldn't have to deal with it on the technical level, since they'd have to have gotten a full tram crew and it's easier to just subcontract it. It's the only reason I can think of other than bribes (which are likely).
>Have the people backing the extension tried convincing them by showing them examples of how trams elsewhere have massively raised property values?
You don't seem to know how a spaniard works. If for some reason your average spaniard where convinced that the sky is green it's not as simple as showing them the blue sky. Actually, I think there'd be no way to change his mind. Spaniards, or rather latinos in general, are the most insufferable people I've ever known in this regard (and in many others). They're patheticly insecure, and this in turn makes them unable to ever accept that they're wrong. They're like irl 4chin anons. And many of these are convinced that since we had trams once and got rid of them that must mean they're bad.
There's this woman who is like a spokesperson for the shopowners along the avenue in question, and she goes out of her way to make up bullshit about why trams are bad. She always goes on about trams having ruined some avenue in Brussels (which they haven't), she insists that no city is building trams into the center anymore because they're only good as feeders, she says that a tram is like a "barrier" (this avenue has 6 lanes and 2 bus lanes but the tram is the problem), all kinds of bullshit like this. Recently she even said that trams are bad because they pollute when braking. Problem is that this whore has a lot of influence among right-wing politicians, and she gets a lot of coverage from right-wing media, while nobody cares to listen to people who actually know what they're talking about.
>>926282
Sorry to keep yammering on about the administrative hierarchy but Is till find it bizarre that a public transit system would 'compete' with another. They're building a subway line in my city with a 3P agreement and the pubic bus operator is not going to compete against it. Is there some sort of rivalry between municipalities or government agencies that might explain why TMB was so hostile towards the idea of the tram extension?
>You don't seem to know how a spaniard works
Jeez man calm down. Your comment borders on outright ethnic hate. NIMBYs are everywhere and they act like morons wherever they are. No need to tag every individual of Spanish descent as human filth because of a bunch of NIMBYs screaming at a few kilometers of tram tracks. One thing is for certain, you won't convince any of them if you talk to them with that attitude.
>>926300
>you won't convince any of them if you talk to them with that attitude.
I don't care about convincing anyone, I'm just being honest about my opinions, which I can be in few places, this being one of them.
Just look at the sorry state that Spain is in. Look at how they keep fucking up and how more than 50% of spaniards are voting for ridiculously corrupt politicians. Spain has absolutely everything going for it, and yet they fuck up in ways that you can barely fathom. I wish it was just NIMBYs screaming at tram tracks, but that's just the tip of the iceberg, an allegory for how this country works. Spaniards are rude, ungrateful and entitled. I'm sick to the death of people constantly behaving like they're martyrs because they have a shit job, but instead of trying to get ahead in life they just do the bare minimum and in a half-assed way, then complain about how bad they're off and how unfair everything is. Precisely today the subway is going on strike at the same time that the Mobile World Congress starts, because earning 29k€ (at the very least) clearly isn't enough to sit on your ass all day, in a country with an average wage of about 24k, a minimum wage of 8.5k and 20+% unemployment. To top it all off the consensus on the street is that all of Spain's problems are somehow the EU's and Germany's fault, while they leech off bailout money without which the country would be bankrupt. And what do they do with EU money? Build the 2nd largest HSR network in the world (most km of HSR per capita), build the largest highway system in Spain (with more area and half the population of germany), or build the largest subway line in Europe into the 11th largest city in Europe.
The one thing that baffles me is how people still defend this sorry excuse of a country.
>>926306
>but instead of trying to get ahead in life they just do the bare minimum and in a half-assed way, then complain about how bad they're off and how unfair everything is
Absolutely bootstraps.
Rand and Rothbard would be proud.
>The one thing that baffles me is how people still defend this sorry excuse of a country.
You sound rich enough, why not move out?
>>925385
>Please, tell me, how could I use a damn seat "wrong"?
As I said, if you weren't sitting like a model on a propaganda poster, you would be uncomfortable.
[spoiler]And also, I wasn't completely serious.[/spoiler]
>>925460
Not look-alikes tho. The real PESA's.
Whatever. Maybe it was some other tram-enabled German city.
>>926139
>so the trams spend their nights on streets
Riding or just standing there?
Maybe 24/7 service would be viable there?
>>926168
>>926159
>>Buses are often operated by private companies as concessions
>Oh for fucks sake, why? What is it with Europeans and bidding out bus operations?
Same thing here in Warsaw (they all work under one name and with single ticket/fare system tho, just subcontractors running them bus lines).
Bet it is cheaper than having a gargantuan, gov run company, so prone to bleed money.
>>926323
>You sound rich enough, why not move out?
How do I sound rich? I'm bitching and moaning about public transit, if I were rich I'd drive a car or take taxis kek
I'm thinking of moving out, but it's really not that easy when you're all settled down. I've lived here most of my life, and don't really want to leave, it's just this shit situation which is getting ever more unsustainable.
>>926337
>Bet it is cheaper than having a gargantuan, gov run company, so prone to bleed money.
Also it makes it harder for the employees to pressure with a strike, since private operators usually hire workers with less secure contracts which make it easier to fire and rehire people if they start screwing around, and bc having different companies means that the workers can't stick together as easily. In my experience large, public operators end up paying way too high salaries because workers can run a hard bargain by going on strike.
I used to think that it's better to cut out the middleman and have all public transit be publicly owned and operated, but seeing how shit's going down with the workers strike these days, how those people are earning more than decent salaries, and how the tram works like a charm, I'm not so sure anymore if public operators are really that much better in practice, even if they are in theory.
>>926337
>Bet it is cheaper than having a gargantuan, gov run company, so prone to bleed money.
>having a bunch of small private operators with redundant administrative structures is more efficient than having a single administrative structure
So how long have you Europeans been drinking the liberal kool-aid?
>>926398
Yes, because the SNCF works so fucking well.
>>926398
Since the 90s recession and macrofinancial deregulations.
>If it weren't you lefties and your "workers" "rights" the economy would have had time to adapt!!
Like excuse me, how is it my fault your bank has no money and only bad assets in it?
>>924508
It's the niqab tram!
Eurotram in Porto, Portugal.
>>926335
Standing. Like in a depot but outside.
24/7 service wouldn't be viable as there is very low demand for anything like that. One night bus line is enough.
>>926464
Not bad, looks comfy but not too ostentatious. I do find the grassed track a bit ridiculous within a station, though. Dunno why, it just looks wrong.
>>926413
>national transport company
>configured as a private for-profit company rather than a service provider
>forced to waste billions on ridiculous LGVs in order to please nobodies at the AssNat and EU bureaucrats
>told constantly to reduce its debt
>surprised when it acts against its users
Gee wiz, I wonder why service is so shit. Maybe you should do like the Brits and sell everything. That worked out great for them.
Škoda 03T in Brno, Czech Republic.
>dat quad track.
>>924508
It looks like a phone turned on its side.
Or a prototype combine engine
Makes me so sad, hopefully we'll get an expansion soon.
New Addington Tram Terminus.
Seaton Tramway
>>926691
Basically, although it's actually used by the local communities. There was initially plans to link it to main rail back in the 1960s when it was built (on a BR trackbed that was scrapped under Beeching) but BR didn't let them get the land and rights up to Seaton Junction.
>>926691
It's not a very big city, really. Only 100k population. The tram system is 116 years old so it's not like they built it all from scratch recently. As I said, there really isn't demand for night lines ( basically between 00-05). There used to be 3 bus lines but they were reduced to 1 going more frequently. Well actually there are 2 another night bus lines but they go only once during the whole night.
>>926729
What city? Also do you have many problems with vandalism, leaving the tram on the street? Here in Spain you leave any rail vehicle unprotected over night and the next day it'll be covered in graffiti. We even once lost the only preserved diesel railbus to a fire caused by vandals.
![343326[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/py1PbhW.jpg "343326[1].jpg")
>>926871
There's CCTV watching the track where the trams are parked so not much problems with vandalism. Another public place where the trams spend the night is fenced.
>>926693
Ah, that peculiar heritage operation with 1/2 scale models.
Given they used mostly old railbed, what was even the motive to use scale models - built from original cars, no less. Just the gimmickiness-value?
Crotram TMK 2200, in Zagreb, Croatia.
>>926938
>da-ba-dee da-ba-die
>>926871
fun fact, the historic Vandal tribe responsible for the term actually lived in Spain.
>>926986
kek. makes perfect sense.
Here, have the O-Train. It's Ottawa's really small light rail system, with only one north-south line, running a measly 9 km and five stops, called the "Trillium line". However, they're expanding it to an east-west line (called the "Confederation line") with fourteen more stops. That expansion is expected to come online some time in 2018. And there are already plans to expand the Trillium line after the completion of the 2018 project to include another four stops to the south of its current terminus.
I rode it last Saturday during a day trip to Ottawa. It was quite good. There was a train every 10 minutes, right on the nose, and they were very clean, and very comfortable.
The current units in use are Alstom Coradia LINT 41s.
>>924526
erdosh
urbosh
pesht
sh
shshshsh
Electron (Eлeктpoн) T5L64 in Lviv, Ukraine.
>>927284
Back end.
![16atmhd[1].png](https://i.imgur.com/ygTBQxc.jpg "16atmhd[1].png")
>>927286
Turkish Durmazlar SilkWorm
Notice the same back end
I wonder how this happened
>>927248
Those are in use as regular "heavy rail" DMUs in europe actually. Both the LINT 41 and the Talent.
The diesel-mechanical version of the Talent shifts a bit hard in my opininon, haven't ridden in the other version or the LINT yet though.
>>926880
The tramway originated as a hobby by this chap in London who's factory built electic battery powered milk floats. He then started taking it around the country to church fairs and so on before deciding to make a permenant attraction of it in North Wales. Then he moved the line down to the South West to take advantage of the Beeching Cuts, population density and tourism. The rails weren't the original rails of the line. They were ripped out; they had to make their own.
>>927324
So the decision to have the trams the size they are originated partly from the fact that a lot of the rolling stock was designed to be portable and also because it was built by a small team.
>>925461
That's sort of the failure of the whole Stadtbahn-concept:
>Have a tunnel in the center to free up space for cars, makes building and maintaining fucking expensive although service is good here.
>outside the center can't afford tunnel runs overground
>as city grows there's more traffic here so the trams get stuck in traffic anyway.
>And since you planned for traffic from the beginning you can't attain a true modal shift.
>Also as you expand lines you have to deal with high platforms
Cities like this need to go full-on planning in favor of public transit. You have infrastructure in place but its capacity is being wasted.
>get better priority for trams
>reduce road and parking space in the center
>faster trams + shittier driving = more people take the tram
>???
>profit!
why is this so fucking hard to understand reeeeeee
>>927384
>Believing 'them' on the most paltry constructed evidence
Of course it doesn't exist.
>>927403
>as city grows there's more traffic here so the trams get stuck in traffic anyway.
Literally a non-problem when dedicated RoW is created from the beginning, which is precisely far more easier to do in the town periphery than in the town center. People need to understand that the induced demand concept directly implies that modal split is a function of infrastructural determinism. There's not much more than top-level decisions that really influence mode share, which means that you haven't actually proved the Stadtbahnen are a failure.
>>926691
>Sorry for asking, and if it sounds a bit rude - no offence intended, but what kind of city has trams
>yet is OK with only one night bus? Or rather, what kind of a zig-zagging, snake-vidya monstrosity
>of a bus line is this?
A night bus is non-existent in the 5th most populous US city (Phoenix). The entire system, bus and light rail, shuts down at night Monday through Thursday. The light rail runs Monday -Thursday about 01:00 AM and reopens about 04:30 AM but all the bus routes stop about 00:00. In my case, I like to go to live music events downtown but the last bus that will take me home passes through the Central Station at 22:30. I either have to take my car or leave some shows early.
Oddly (to me), on Friday and Saturday nights the light rail runs all night to 04:00, the buses stop running about 20:00 on Saturday night. In auto-centric Phoenix the light rail Friday and Saturday schedules are planned/designed around "park and ride" parking lots.
>>927457
>the buses stop running about 20:00 on Saturday night.
That tells you who it is run for the convenience of.
Mind you, it's not as critical as for the main commuter rush, where lowering the peak traffic flows helps a lot. Just wish people were more thoughtful about what they can do with infrastructure.
Of course, it isn't like outside the US always has a stellar record. After about 21:00, your chances of getting a bus here (suburban UK) are about zero despite there being two bus routes. I'd have to walk half a mile to one of the main arterial routes.
>>927451
They are a failure in their conception, which benefits the automobile more than anything else. Not having ROW at all times when running at surface level is part of that failure.
As I explained, there's measures they could take which would remedy these design errors (ROWing, mostly), but the original concept of the Stadtbahn, which includes too many considerations for automobile traffic, has failed.
>>927496
Mind you, I'm referring to the Stadtbahn-concept from the 1960's, which was mostly based on tunnels in the city center, high platforms and larger vehicles. It was sort of a forerunner to the modern light rail concepts. It's not that the infrastructure is bad or trams are bad, it's just that very concept which didn't work out as planned, since it ended up favoring car traffic too much, which in turn hurts tram operation. These systems also have lots of problems with maintaining the tunnels, since they can barely afford the expensive maintenance. These systems now need to modernize to become part of a conception that favors public transit thru infrastructural determinism as you so well put it. When I say that the Stadtbahn concept has failed I'm talking in a purely historic perspective, I'm not saying that those systems don't have lots of potential despite the flaws in the original concept.
>>927499
Isn't stadtbahn concept failed even from that standpoint that only something like Hamburg and Stuttgart have went the full transition from "tramway" to "metro" and the rest of the systems hang in various states of this weird hybrid "pre-metro" limbo, originally meant to be only temporary?
But believe me, you are much better well off with extensive stadtbahn systems compared that you would have built just a single, even more expensive heavy, metro line and either dismantled your tramways or neglected them for 60 years.
>>927309
Weren't a few Talents prepared to run on Aachen's never-to-be-built tram network? Like pic related
>>927513
>Isn't stadtbahn concept failed even from that standpoint that only something like Hamburg and Stuttgart have went the full transition from "tramway" to "metro" and the rest of the systems hang in various states of this weird hybrid "pre-metro" limbo, originally meant to be only temporary?
Yes this could be, and evidently wanting to build full heavy rail/metro systems in such small towns was nonsense, it wouldn't have justified the cost of a full system, and these cities are already heaving problems with the upkeep of the tunnel sections they have.
>But believe me, you are much better well off with extensive stadtbahn systems compared that you would have built just a single, even more expensive heavy, metro line and either dismantled your tramways or neglected them for 60 years.
I agree, but just the same it would've been more effective to not put the trams in tunnels (or just very little), getting decent ROWs (which means restricting car traffic) and keep the low platforms, which is essentially the basic modern LRT concept. Examples of this aren't too frequent, Zurich did this, Vienna kinda, Munich. These are basically un-upgraded 1st-gen systems which get better ROWs and priority at intersections.
Basically it's just that these mixed surface-subsurface systems are just not a good idea. Either go full Metro, or have a good modern tram/lrt system (or both)
Still in regular use.
Tatra T3 in Riga, Latvia.
>>927499
>>927521
Here's a picture that tell it all.
>Fixed infrastructure costs: metro / tram / train / bus.
Metro is growing from 21 km to 35 km. Tram has been 45-50 km (depending how counted) for the longest time. Train just got 18 km km of mostly tunnel track to its previous 55 km of private network.
>>927650
The cancellations that you made in early 90s wreck my heart.
>>927899
>trolleypoles
based af.
Why do your new trams not have poles? Also how does wiring work that allows for both poles and pantos?
>>927993
If you want new trams with poles then see Daugavpils. Daugavpils is also great as it has a genuine Russian feel with ticket selling ladies while being in the EU. It also shows how small Russian tram systems could look like with more money for investments.
>>927993
>Also how does wiring work that allows for both poles and pantos?
All frogs neet to have "pantograph-friendly" guides besides the grooves, allowing trolley poles to go in their slots and pantographs to slide below.
All wire hangers must have enough clearance for pantograph to go below, that is no the usual vaulted construction.
Straight runs must introduce sligh stageering to the wire.
Where this is not so, pantograph cars must either coast through (frogs) pantograph lowered or a speed rectriction is imposed (straight sections).
>>927650
I might have to go to Lisbon.
![876383[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/JIsaJWZ.jpg "876383[1].jpg")
>>927994
The city has a Russian majority population, but Russian language is not official so you can see it only rarely. However, if you want to talk with the ticket selling lady you better know Russian.
![878586[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/d1wsOOu.jpg "878586[1].jpg")
>>928021
These new cars are common for the main line 1 which runs quite frequently and runs the whole length on double track.
![786277[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/0l3M6nO.jpg "786277[1].jpg")
>>928022
But lines 2 and 3 still have that "soul". Mostly you can see there running KTM-5 cars.
>>927296
I don't see a raised pantograph. Where is the power coming from?
>>928017
I know they are upgrading the wiring in Toronto to be Pantograph-friendly for the new streetcars while maintaining its use for Trolley Polls as well since they are still used on the old vehicles (and the news ones for now). So I guess that's how they are doing it here aswell.
>>928128
Probably one of those systems where they run on battery on some stretches to preserve the scenery. It's this ridiculous and tacky fashion to obsess over streetcars without catenary because a wire you can barely distinguish apparently doesn't look nice in this natural and organic citiscape.
>>928137
>tfw you'll never experience Toronto with streetcars under trolley poles
why live
>>928141
You've got till 2019 at the earliest to experience this before trolley polls are phased out. You can thank Bombardier for the delay
>>928141
>trolleypoles
>good
Fuck off.
>>928143
The switchover has nothing to do with vehicles dumbass. The CLRVs and ALRVs were designed to be converted to pantos (the ones leased in Boston when the Boeing LRVs failed even had pantos installed).
The electrical network on the streetcar network is massive and can't be converted overnight.
>>928140
>Probably one of those systems where they run on battery on some stretches to preserve the scenery.
Muh bridge :(
Solaris Tramino on the Fast Tram in Poznań, Poland.
>>924508
Škoda 25T, Miskolc, Hungary
>>928149
>implying I said anythin about poles being good or bad
the autism is strong with this one
>>928149
actually, they're not that bad for tram systems. They're way cheaper than pantographs (a pole costs a couple hundreds, a panto a couple of thousands), the overhead catenary will need frogs, but in exchange won't need to zig-zag like with pantographs, and it doesn't need to be so well tensioned.
>>926306
>Spaniards are rude, ungrateful and entitled. I'm sick to the death of people constantly behaving like they're martyrs because they have a shit job, but instead of trying to get ahead in life they just do the bare minimum and in a half-assed way, then complain about how bad they're off and how unfair everything is
Just like any socialist country.
>>928345
Is that inside the new station they've been building so long?
And hows the Roundabout, done yet?
>>928493
>>Is that inside the new station they've been building so long?
My mistake... I'm not from Poznań (or anywhere near Europe), I just post pics of trams.
Perhaps the station you're referring to is Dworzec Zachodni? (pic related)
The station I posted here (>>928345) is not apart of the fast tram, but is the Piaśnicka/ Kurlandzka stop. Though, the route of tram in that pic (16) runs through the fast tram portion.
>>And hows the Roundabout, done yet?
If you're referring to Rondo Kaponiera, it's not completed.
Sneltram (Dutch for fast tram) in Utrecht, Netherlands.
They are currently building a new line that runs from Utrecht Centraal to Uithof (a university campus). It will use low-floor trams (CAF Urbos 100).
>>928745
What makes a sneltram different from a normal tram? Does it just skip some stops or does it run a completely different route?
Is the ride in the low floor trams comfortable?
>>928840
Sneltram is just another name for LRT (further stops, with priority). Utrecht doesn't have a "regular" tram system.
As for the ride quality of the low-floor trams, I don't know. The new line and new trams are expected to be in use in 2017.
>>928513
>If you're referring to Rondo Kaponiera, it's not completed.
Typical Poland.
>>927650
I was once in Lisbon and tried to get in one of those but there was just this massive queue with tuk tuk taxi drivers shouting on the side of the road. Maybe it's not like that everywhere.
>>928854
well, the Tram in Olsztyn was completed without much issue... And works well, except for a couple of rail joints cracking in -20*C, the tram time schedule being around 30% too optimistic (so a couple of new trams have to be ordered), and the netire system taking 45 instead of 27 months to be finished.
>>928848
Though Utrecht has some express services during peak times. Are these called Snel Sneltrams then?
>>928868
I needn't to say how many things are late here (and how many of those were supposed to be ready for the _previous_ Euro footy cup).
BTW those Scania buses are shite.
>>928993
true, they might run ok, but they get noisy as fuck. So loud is their cracking in fact that people were actually calling inspectors to the transit authority.
They're replacing them with picrelated
>>929011
They run like the engine is about to choke, rattle like they were about to fall apart, are loud inside and most of all, they're mighty uncomfortable - little space to stand, narrow seats and very little space for legs.
Also, I don't know what's with the ones we have here, but they suffer a plethora of minor defects that are annoying as all hell (like the headlining ripping, doors being ill-fit etc).
They were either donated from a scrapyard or someone got a pretty penny on the bid deal.
>Solaris
The newest ones are fucking sick! Really great.
Also, the Solbus ones (funny thing, I thought they were the same company, even the logos are similar) are great too. Yours are fitted with AC? And most importantly - do they run the AC at all?
Cheers.
>>929014
I'm not form Olsztyn but when I went there to check out the tram and the new Solaris buses.
The AC works, the tram and the bus are really neat and comfortable. Though the bus looks a bit too modern for me. And the fact that Solaris wins most tenders is a bit worrying, i don't want other manufacturers to enter "pls buy anything" mode.
Speaking of Solbus - We've got a couple of those in my town, they're really good, and from what i heard from the drivers they aren't bad quality either. And AC works in them too.
>>929016
>posts about Poznań
>not from Poznań lol
>posts about Olsztyn
>not from Olsztyn lol
>posts about Biała Podlaska
Ain't fallin for this one, mate.
The paintjob looks nice, tho.
>>929025
Heh, I'm not the guy who posted about Poznań. And actually you're right, I'm not from Biała, i live nearby though (already in Mazowieckie however). Yep, the paintjob is nice, represents the town's flag. It looks better than the old one (pic related)
But we're going offtop. Back to trams - PESA, Polands largest tram (but also train) producer somehow managed to deliver the trams ordered by many Polish cities as part of the EU programme. They had 140 to deliver at the end of November. Still paid some delay fees.
>>929052
polak potrafi
>>929052
>And actually you're right, I'm not from Biała
Fucken KEK.
The old paintjob looks weak and resembles the Gdańsk one (curio: Warsaw had a few buses in this colour scheme that were, if I am not mistaken, bought from there).
As for PESA, they're great, but AFAIR they had some schedule problems in Warsaw too. But all is fine nowadays.
>>924508
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j7ruLqU_ndw
>>929204
yup, they had to deliver 30 Jazz trams (pic related) but they managed somehow to dleiver them before 31 dec 2015. They're cute and neat inside, the line that goes by my flat in Warsaw got some of them.
>>929221
>They're cute and neat inside
They sure are.
I like the "heavy head" ones best.
>>929224
Kind of like these. Too bad they are shite.
>>929224
Well, I personally don't like those, they look like a Fiat Multipla's mother-in-law.
Too bad the Wroclaw's tram manufacturer is going bankrupt - that's because they can't participate in any tender for low decked trams because they have no "experience" and they can't get any "exp" because they can't get any tender.
>>929226
Yup, they look alike. Why are they bad?
