Why is Toronto Canada's subway system so fucking terrible?
Pic related is the current subway system in Toronto. There are FOUR LINES. One of them (the blue one) isn't even a subway, it's an LRT, or light rail transit, basically a smaller, slower, above ground train. And that purple one by the top, can you really even consider that a subway line? It's only 5 km long. There is currently one more LRT line under construction, but it's going to be shit when it's finished five years from now, and in the meantime, traffic on the roads in the areas of construction is a total fucking nightmare.
The system is so bad, there are dozens of people online that have created "fantasy subway maps", basically some fake map based on the existing infrastructure that actually has a decent amount of subway lines.
Toronto does have a pretty decent bus system that works in conjunction with the subway and LRT, as well as streetcars that operate in the downtown core, but those still have to deal with the traffic on the roads, and in most cases do not come as frequently as they should.
The city of Toronto has the worst traffic congestion in all of Canada, and probably most of the US as well.
Could be worse.
Is the purple line heavy rail transit or LRT? IMO the Canadian gov should just splurge money on the subway for a massive expansion so you won't need to keep spending a few billion here and few billion there every few years to meet the growth.
>>897572
>Could be worse.
Toronto has the highest commute times in the developed world, so I really dont see how it could.
The Eglinton thing is supposed to be done in 2020... so in reality it'll be 2022 with we're VERY lucky.
Too many wops in charge of the city/TTC desu
>>897577
Well you could be LA or Miami
The commute in those cities have driven people to suicide
Because too many retarded mayors who see public transit as a favor to doll out to neighborhoods where his core supporters live.
>>897571
Because no council wants to bite the bullet and dig subway tunnels under heavily developed areas. It would be hella expensive-even though its definitely worth it-and no mayor or councilor (other than based Ford bros) wants to bring it forward at the risk of alienating their constituency. Its fucking retarded. I hate it.
Just like I hate driving on a jammed 401 when I know the 407 is fucking empty but its the most expensive toll road in the world. God that fucking rustles my jimmies holy shit. WHO SELLS A ROAD THAT WAS MEANT AS RELIEF HIGHWAY FOR A CITY WITH 1 HIGHWAY RUNNING THROUGH IT EAST-WEST???? WHO!?!?!?!?!?!?!??!
>City is poor
>Province is near bankrupt
>Spent all our shekels on Pan Am and UP Express nobody uses
What the fuck do you want them to do? We can't afford a subway system unless we privatize the TTC
CONGESTION CHARGE
Toronto transit has been fucked since mayors and councillors can cancel plans already in the works and put in pet projects They should just listen to planners desu so that things would actually get done. Fuck rob ford for cancelling transit city.
>>897635
Transit City was a stupid fucking plan though. Would you rather waste billions on that or do it correctly?
We need to hire an independent consulting firm to take over this process, give them full access to the numbers, the ridership and everything else and have them formulate a system that actually serves the GTA.
>>897653
>We need to hire an independent consulting firm to take over this process
How do you think Transit City was planned you goddamn retard?
>>897653
>Would you rather waste billions on that or do it correctly
At this point, anything is better than inaction. This city was built for 2 million people, not 5 million who commute here everyday from buttfuck nowhere.
>>897571
>streetcars that operate in the downtown core, but those still have to deal with the traffic on the roads, and in most cases do not come as frequently as they should
I am an outside observer, but why don't you just turn your streetcars into complete light rail systems and expand them to the rest of the city? I mean, it looks pretty good already.
>>897809
Are you going to ask this every single thread? It makes no sense to expand a network that is at capacity (the 501 and 509 are grade separated and have also reached their capacity) in a CBD that is only getting denser. High density corridors require transit that can cope with that kind of demand and you aren't going to get that kind of capacity with a streetcar system that can (at best) accommodate for 6 car trains and has to cross multiple intersection.
Modern streetcar systems are being built in the areas of Toronto that have the density that justify such a system:
>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ion_rapid_transit
>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BLAST_network
>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hurontario-Main_LRT
>>897824
>>897822
I've never been to these threads so this is the first time I have asked it.
>>897827
Sorry for the double post and the tone. I thought you were that Spanish anon who wouldn't shut up about Zurich.
>>897585
no one sold the 407. It was built by SNC Lavalin. Govt was happy, they didn't have to pay for it and they don't have to pay the upkeep.
>herp derp Toronto's public transit is shit
you've got a good streetcar system
>but streetcars have no capacity and are slow and bad and terrible
you're just not really taking advantage of them, you should turn them into LRT
>yeah but, no but, yeah but, that wouldn't work because they still don't have capacity and you can't just put a ROW on a streetcar line
How do you know it's not enough if you've only tried to ROW a few lines?
>b-but Toronto is muh megalopolis and needs subways not streetcars REEEEE
jesus fuck why don't you just make a thread called
>I want more subways in Toronto
>>897836
The streetcars run on two lane streets that cannot be expanded.
If they made the centre lanes streetcar ROW, there would be riots.
>>897838
>If they made the centre lanes streetcar ROW, there would be riots.
God damn just exile the suburbanites to Florida,Texas, or California or some shit.
>>897822
How long could you have your streetcars?
BoStrab says 75 meter vehicles can still pass as a road vehicle.
Is there some legal vehicle lenght related problems that are keeping the American and Janese streetcars too abysmally small?
>>897877
And how that's done in Germany and other places: two about 35 meter vehicles are run in dual configuration. No literal 75 meter cars, except that one monster in Budapest.
BoStrab has no power outside Germany but has been treated as a good desing guideline across the EU.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JD382v6AheA
It might help to improve/modernize and electrify commuter rail.
>>897838
>two lane streets
with another lane for street parking that's TOTALLY necessary
>>897877
You do realize how long the stations would need to be, right? It doesn't help that some intersections along the major boulevards (like Spadina ave) are spaced less than a 100 meters apart in some sections so that would only further complicate things.
So no, there aren't any legal barriers but rather technical ones.
Also, by what standards is 28 meters "abysmally small"? That's a fairly average size by European standards.
>>897887
That's the plan.
>http://www.gotransit.com/electrification/en/default.aspx
>>897634
>CONGESTION CHARGE
this basically - take all the money from that and pump it into public transport / bike lanes.
>>897653
Transit city was pretty decent, though. Upgrading surface lines is low cost for high impact.
Even if you plan on heavy subway investment later, you still need good surface service. Hell, you can integrate the two and have mostly surface lines to the 'burbs with subway sections to bypass bottlenecks where needed.
>>897913
>All those exposed power lines and poles
wew lad
I'm so glad Chicago created alleyways early in it's history so they can prevent power lines from uglying up the city.
>>897925
The suburban city councils would murder people if such a measure were put in place. Metrolinx needs to come up with a a comprehensive regional plan (something that Joe Sixpack can understand so they don't get the same backlash they did with the Big Move blunder) and get a social license for it before that kind of measure can be past.
>>897960
>LE EBIN TRAINGUY MAYMAY
Fuck off.
>>897585
>other than based Ford bros
Yea its just to bad that your so called based Fords subway ideas were beyond retarded.
>replace the Scarboroug LRT plan with a subway extension even though every transit expert out there has said its a colossal waste of cash.
It's a heinous waste of $4 Billion that will spur literally no development because Scarbrough wants a Subway but won't let the gentrification it brings happen.
>Tries to get the Finch West LRT replaced with a Subway.
If you think replacing the SRT was a leap in judgement, lets look at the fact he honestly thought we could put a Subway down a street with a bus route that only sees 2,000 people an hour (fyi A subway needs at least 15,000 an hour to be warranted).
>Honestly believed the Private sector would put up the cash to extend the Sheppard Subway
>Tried to get Council to spend an extra $2 Billion on the Eglinton Crosstown to bury it east of Leslie.
>Tried to take credit for the Subway extension to Vaughn, Eglinton Crosstow, and new Trains even though that was all done under Miller.
>Believed that we should expand the Subways into the suburbs before building the DRL.
Ford was just as big an idiot as the rest of council. They all for some reason seem to have a hard-on for pandering to the burbs that they all seem to ignore that fact that the Subway system is bursting at the seams downtown. We have a huge bottle neck in the system and a street car line downtown that is carrying 54,000 people a day (more than the Sheppard Subway and SRT). Ford was a moron, Council was and still is full of clowns, and the suburbs are entitled cunts.
