Whats the big deal? Dont people know Shimano is better?
>>913607
ShimaNO is evil.
First of all, to work on a ShimaNO bike requires different tools for cartridge bottom brackets, freewheels, and freehubs. The Campagnolo tool lets you do all three with the same tool.
ShimaNO created new standards, like changing the size of cable heads. ShimaNO shift cables won't fit classic downtube shifters, but Campagnolo ones will.
ShimaNO freehubs have short splines, so they have to be made from heavy steel or expensive titanium, or if they're aluminum they will notch.
That's only a few things off the top of my head.
>>913607
Some people like it better. They're both bretty gud but the ergonomics differ.
>he uses fishing equipment on a bike
>>913607
They are the same people who think campagnolo invented;
indexed shifting
STI levers
Rapidfire
And a million other things those sugoii japs invented
Face it;campy is the apple of cycling,except nowhere near as popular
>>913613
>Supporting a company that doesn't
>make hydraulic disc brakes
>facilitate downshifting under braking
It's the CURRENT YEAR, come on!
Campy hoods feel so good
>>913635
>make hydraulic disc brakes
Implying that's good. Shimano fanboys are the worst. Campy comes out with 10 speeds, Shimano shills say that's too many speeds until they can come out with 10. Same for 11. Sram comes out with hydraulic brakes and people make fun of them, until Shimano does it. The idiotic thing is using Shimano making something as a standard of if it is good or not.
>facilitate downshifting under braking
It does this just fine. You brake with you index and middle, and downshift with your ring.
>>913640
>Implying that's good
What could be better?
>Implying using two fingers to brake is desirable
>Implying holding onto the bars under high performance conditions with just your thumb and pinky is acceptable
campfag delusions, my friends
Downshifting under braking on a bicycle is a meme
What common scenario in road bike racing exists where a rider needs to be braking while shifting gears, where he or she is still upright enough and stable enough to softpedal to move the chain?
>>913607
its old european, therefore it is classy, cultured, attached to history, beautiful, artistic and has a soul, unlike that imperialist japanese cheaper high quality garbage japan makes
>>913649
>shimano shill doesnt know how a brake lever works
>>913649
>brakes bein so weak you need hydraulic discs and a full fist of death grip to shop
>shimano
>>913629
kek
>>913684
>still doesnt know how brake lever works
>>913684
>sram
>>facilitate downshifting under braking
u wut
>>913684
>Road bike racing is the same as any other type of racing in this respect.
I know that rev-match downshifting works extremely well for high-performance driving, but bicycles and automobiles have VERY different operating styles that makes some techniques useful in motorsports useless in bicycle sports.
Bicyclists don't have to worry about unsettling weight transfers when they start pedaling again while exiting a turn like a car would be unsettled by a sudden change in power to the wheels. Bicyclists ease off the pedalling before they start braking for a sharp turn, especially for any riders that aren't at the very front of the pack. Bicycles also don't have to worry about operating a clutch or matching engine (leg) and wheels speeds when shifting because they operate at relatively low RPMs, so a properly adjusted bicycle can downshift several gears near instantly even under moderate power.
I don't know if you have raced road bikes or not, but my preference in criteriums is that the shifting for a hard corner exit is done right before braking. Unless the corner can be taken at very high speed, the entire corner entry up until at least the apex (or even after if the bike has to stay leaned over for a narrow corner exit) the bicycle is coasting.
For corners with a less significant change in speed from corner entry to exit, shifting can be done during the corner exit with no real loss.
Bicycles are just so simple, low-power, and low-speed compared to automobiles that shifting while on the brakes doesn't offer enough (if any) advantage.
>>913728
>rev-match downshifting
change that to
>rev-match downshifting while braking
I'm talking about heel-toeing, of course
Nevermind this fucking meme thread.
I ride campy, and to me, it is the ultimate group for someone who just plain loves bikes. It's well made, I feel good riding it, I feel good cleaning and working on it, and it's built to last ages.
If you're anti-Campy, then you're just lying to yourself. Or maybe your experience with Shimano has been so awful that you're basically turned off of cycling and are well on your way to becoming a cager. Either way, I feel sorry for you.
>>913732
I ride everything and the problem with campy is that it doesn't work the way it should half the time. Shimano is pretty much bomb proof and if something is broken, its easy/cheap enough to figure out what it is and replace it if necessary. I've never had a campy grouppo without some odd quirk on a perfectly setup bike using brand new parts.
>>913735
Please consult the Park Tool website for detailed instructions on the installation and maintenance of your Campagnolo™ components. Thank You.
>>913738
Real men dont need instruction manuals.
>>913735
Are you that guy who we told that your shop fucked up the set up, and you refused to believe us because your guy was a pro, and eventually he admitted he fucked up, but you still held a grudge against campy?
>>913775
Yes. What's your point?
>>913775
Nope. I actually like campy but that doesn't mean that they're immune from criticism. My point is even proven by the number of reredesigns campy has released of their 11 speed grouppos, that aree incomptabile with their older 11 speed groupsets.
>>913776
If youre me? Then who am I?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hlxoyw_8I7I
>>913777
> My point is even proven by the number of reredesigns campy has released of their 11 speed grouppos, that aree incomptabile with their older 11 speed groupsets.
You mean one?
>>913780
One too many.
>>913781
It wasn't done because there were problems. It was done because Campy needed it to look like there was an actual update, because they were worried they'd look too old fashioned when Shimano had their long arm FD and 4-arm crank, and apparently, Campagnolo hasn't worked out 12 speeds yet.
>>913783
Also, Shimano has redesigned 10 speed 3 times.
>>913787
You don't have to say Shimano if your retard argument is braking and shifting.
>>913607
>better
What is heritage?
>>913787
>>>Not attacking in the turns
>This is why I have respect for but a few road racers.
Isn't that a really good way to cause a nice big pileup?
>>913629
>His group's manufacturer best product is a cork screw
I didn't want carbon all over my bike, so i went with Dura Ace instead of Chorus
>>913792
OP here, that's not me. You're right about the bait though ;^ )
>>913794
Most of the time, yes. As a racer you should be looking to exploit any opportunity that presents itself though, and that often includes corners.
>>913630
>apple of cycling
so like a company who took existing inventions and refined and improved them albeit at the slight expense of customizability?
>>913783
Revolution is an actual update, though. Shifting performance is way better, particularly in the front, although I imagine that some people will miss the old front shifting action.
The original Super Record 11sp had a weird problem with certain frames with internal cable routing. Campy fixed that in, what, 2010? I forget. It was one little part change in the shifter.
>>913806
Of course. They're Italian. Would you expect different?
>>914355
>Revolution is an actual update, though. Shifting performance is way better, particularly in the front, although I imagine that some people will miss the old front shifting action.
For the front, but that has nothing to do with the fact it was 11 speeds. That was just hopping on the bandwagon.
>The original Super Record 11sp had a weird problem with certain frames with internal cable routing. Campy fixed that in, what, 2010? I forget. It was one little part change in the shifter.
I can tell this is bullshit because you;re singling out SR for having a problem with shift internals.
>>914364
>campy moving to 11sp was hopping on the bandwagon
Campy was first to market with 11sp. Revoution is the big update to 11sp.
>singling out SR
It was SR and only SR. The 2008-mid 2010 SR had problems with the rear shifting. They fixed it with a running change in 2010. The specific problem had to do with a ceramic cable bush that they replaced with a plastic bush.
Cable routing was also an issue for early Campy 11sp in general, in some cases when it caused more cable friction. Campy fixed that with a running change to the plastic used for the cable guide that reduced friction enough for shifting to be really good.
>>914365
>campy moving to 11sp was hopping on the bandwagon
That's not even a quote. It's clear I wat talking about the front. You know, because I said
>for the front
>It was SR and only SR. The 2008-mid 2010 SR had problems with the rear shifting. They fixed it with a running change in 2010. The specific problem had to do with a ceramic cable bush that they replaced with a plastic bush.
Bullshit.
>Cable routing was also an issue for early Campy 11sp in general, in some cases when it caused more cable friction. Campy fixed that with a running change to the plastic used for the cable guide that reduced friction enough for shifting to be really good.
You say this like it Shimano has not done the same exact thing. Yes, literally, they also made a running change on their shifters from ST-9000 to ST-9001 to reduce cable friction, and 10-speed cables under the bars suffered even more from being touchy due to the shorter cable pull.
>>913635
>Road disc memer
Get the fuck out of here casual
>>914503
>Get the fuck out of here casual
better go back to spoon brakes amirite? :^)
>>914341
>c grade shitter with no race etiquette detected
>>914505
>muh anyone not embracing discz is a retrogrouch
I didnt say i dont like hyrdro discs, theyre great. But wanting them on road racing bikes points you out as a filthy casual.
They work well for commuting and offroad disciplines where sharp stops are the norm, but i cant think of a single race that i have been in on the road where more immediately powerful brakes would have been an improvement
If you like discs, good on you buddy, but keep to your sunday bunch rides and "endurance" frames and stay the fuck away from bikes actually intended to be raced
>>914367
>Bullshit.
The part that was replaced was EC-SR060/SR061. The info comes from Graeme of Velotech.
>You say this like it Shimano has not done the same exact thing.
Of course they have. It's a common thing in all industries. Please stop acting like a persecuted minority.
>>914584
>The part that was replaced was EC-SR060/SR061
You claimed it was SR specific, was present prior to 2010, and changed in 2010.
>Of course they have. It's a common thing in all industries. Please stop acting like a persecuted minority.
Then why bring it up like it's an issue unique to Campagnolo?
>>914508
>being able to stop is bad
>brakes are for modulating your speed
Why not just drag your fucking feet on the ground you stupid mongs
I can't believe people are still defending campy's luddite bullshit in present year
>>914599
>10 speed introduced
>HAS CAMPY GONE TOO FAR?
>no hydraulic brakes
>LUDDITES
Shimano shills ain't gonna be happy unless Shimano does it.
I have a pre-2014 campy groupset would it be worth upgrading to the 2015 super-record groupset?
>>914595
It was SR-specific. The part in non-SR levers was made from black plastic. SR originally had ceramic. Here's what Graeme had to say about it, a little more than midway down: http://weightweenies.starbike.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=72473
This was a known problem with SR. The highest-end groupsets are often the ones with the most problems because of the measures taken to save weight. For a long time, Dura Ace bottom brackets had a habit of failing because their bearing cages were made of a shitty lightweight plastic that liked to break, so everyone ran Ultegra BBs. And don't get me started on the 7700 shifters.
>Then why bring it up like it's an issue unique to Campagnolo?
I didn't. You're reading too much into things and getting triggered.
>>914601
CX is growing fast, and Campy has been trying to get a piece of that action. The UCI will allow them for road races. Disc brakes are important, and Campy will outfit Astana and others with hydros, and hopefully release the system this year. They filed a patent for a hydro system that's hidden in handlebars, and another in shifters, and the brake itself may be made by Brembo. The handlebar systems are interesting because you can put a larger master cylinder in them, increasing stopping power so that you can endo off a cliff even faster.
http://www.cyclist.co.uk/news/364/the-future-is-hydraulic
>>914631
>2010
And you're still wrong.
>I didn't. You're reading too much into things and getting triggered.
The entire implication of this thread is Campagnolo vs other brands. It's like saying "Campagnolo chains get dirty"
>>914631
This is ironic because Campagnolo made the first disc brake for a mass produced two wheeled vehicle in 1963.
>>914634
>And you're still wrong.
Mid-2010 is when the fix was integrated into the manufacturing line, from what I recall.
Exactly what is your problem? Daddy jam a Tiagra reel up your ass one too many times?
>>914636
Except the 2009 parts catalog says otherwise. You sure seem on a mission to try to take the most trivial issues with Campy and pretend like they make Campy suck.
>>914506
>no race etiquette
The only etiquette racers should have is trying their best to win and not intentionally crashing to other riders. Thankfully we've been seeing lately more riders who go by that. If you can't stay on your bike or build a bike that lasts for 300km in one piece you don't deserve to win.
>>914508
In any racing the fastest way to go is braking as hard as you can for as short of a period as possible. That doesn't magically change for bicycle racing. Having good brakes with better modulation can win you a lot of time in long descents. All of the current rim brakes can throw you over the bars but the advantages of discs is that it's easier to be just on the edge of endoing or locking your front wheel thus making the overall braking distance and time required lower.
Just as long as it isn't ASS RAM groupset.
>>914655
>All of the current rim brakes can throw you over the bars
Sure, in perfect conditions. The nice thing about discs is it can do this in all conditions.
I find it hilarious how being able to slow down fast is "ungentlemanly", what's next? Being able to accelerate too fast is also ungentlemanly? You shouldn't climb too fast or the other riders might get jealous?
>>914692
Yeah I kinda forgot to even mention that. Discs are the way to go and after UCI stops acting like a bunch of retards and allow them for all races that's what everyone will be on. At least it seems like they're coming to their senses and we'll see more discs this year.
It might take a few years before wheel, brake and frame manufacturers have equipment that can be used in racing but once manufacturers have them they'll be pushing them for marketing reasons and because teams want them.
Personally I'm waiting for SRAM to release hydror etap system.
>>914696
Mate there is already plenty of race ready disc stuff on the market, doesnt change the fact that its really fucking dangerous, especially in lower grade amateur racing where people dont know how to brake properly
>>914718
>better braking is dangerous
Just no. Shitty riders are dangerous and they're dangerous no matter what bike they're riding. If anything disc brakes improve safety.
Yes there is race ready disc brake stuff but there are still plenty of manufacturers still missing race ready disc stuff.
>>914730
>better braking isnt more dangerous
>razor sharp burning hot metal wont slice and cauterise human flesh like a hot knife through butter
Yeah bro alright
>>914837
FUCKKKKKKKKKKKKK NIGGA FUCK
WTF, CENSOR THAT SHIT NIGGA. SFW SFW
>>914837
Fuck, reported. I am really stressed right now. I am actually trembling and hyperventilating and having an anxiety attack
>>914848
Kek reality is harsh, disc frothers
>>914837
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pkl3JPUp63g
>>914837
>disc brakes are the only thing that will fuck your shit up if you happen to crash in a peloton travelling above 50 km/h wearing nothing but a thin layer of lycra.
At least that's cleanly cut and can be easily fixed with a bit of glue/stitching. Can't say the same for losing fingers to spokes, getting impaled by a broken carbon frame, or just breaking multiple bones. Not to even mention the road rash.
Disc brakes help you stop better so you can possibly even avoid some of the accidents that you'd get into without them.
>>914945
>Disc brakes help you stop better so you can possibly even avoid some of the accidents that you'd get into without them.
How so? Block brakes already make the wheels lock, how are disc brakes going to help braking? You'd need anti-lock brakes, then.
>>914982
Better modulation helps you break closer to the limit without going over it. Also being able to instantly break in wet weather is pretty good.
>>915031
>my fat fingers can't into dexterity so it's impossible
I've tested it on multiple motorbikes and with all of them braking so that the ABS doesn't engage lets you stop faster than just deathgripping the brake lever and letting ABS handle it for you. The results are even more in favor of not using ABS when you're on gravel.
With bikes(both motorised and pedal powered) modulating brake power is easy since they've usually got good brakes that give you great feel. With cars it's harder since most of them have shitty brakes because cost reductions.
Camp&YOLO
>>915031
You don't need any dexterity when breaking, you fool. Brute strength is more applicable in such cases.
>>913607
yes a lot
>>914837
https://youtu.be/JplymlruPZ8?t=2m51s
Implying as fuck, my friend
>>914348
>>913654
>high quality
>garbage
Pick one, faggot.
You really are assblasted aren't you. Would it make you feel any better that Campag's policy of waiting until Shimano bring out their new lines of components to gauge how and where they should focus their efforts only underlines Shimano's superior position in the industry?
At least Sram has the foresight to be compatible with Shimano parts.
>>920100
>SRAM
blastig dubbelcrap shifders :DDD
>>920100
Campy focused on 11sp before electronic shifting because 11sp was a much safer bet, so they were first to market there. They had been laying the groundwork to launch EPS in 2005, but they decided that they needed to redesign the system to be completely waterproof, even against pressure washers (Di2 initially required you to heat shrink sleeves around the connectors for waterproofing, but Shimano solved that with Ultegra Di2). Then it took a backburner to 11sp.
For disk brakes, Campy was waiting for the UCI to start moving towards approving them. Plus I'm sure that they had to work out a way to do it that wasn't patent-encumbered. Shimano's been doing hydraulic disk brakes since at least the 1970s, so I imagine they have a ton of patents there.
>>920100
>10 speed
>11 speed
>waiting until shimano
>>914506
>The only tactic in my arsenal is pedalling faster than everyone else
Perhaps you should stick to road time trials.
>>914508
>The only - or even primary - advantage of disc brakes is absolute power
This is the real meme.
>>914601
>If you don't like Campag you must be Shimano shill
I envy you: life must be so simple when you can dismiss anyone who proves you wrong so easily.
>>914635
Not only that, but they were the first to reveal a proper drop-bar hydro system. I wonder why we never heard any more of their collaboration with Formula?
>>922090
>I envy you: life must be so simple when you can dismiss anyone who proves you wrong so easily.
How was he proven wrong? Also SRAM shills are worse than Shimano and Campy shills, and retrogrouch shills are just shit.
>>914848
Kek
>>914837
Ur pic makes my dick hard
SUNTOUR MASTER RACE
>>924832
i luv muh sontour super bee
