>browsing heat treated steel frames
>browsing titanium frames
>browsing stainless frames
>hurr durr i wont tell you the weight
>its a custom hand built frame
>its better because voodoo bullshit
>if you are about weight go buy carbon
Literally, why would I buy a super exotic metal frame without knowing the weight?
Why would I not just get traditional butted steel if they're going to be like that?
Expect a minimum 3lb frame. Any lower and it's prone to cracking
When you compare ti to carbon, the weight might put you off
Even a lot of carbon frame manufacturers stopped giving frame weights years ago.
One of the reasons why is this: manufacturer A will make 50 frames, weigh them all, then list the lightest one they weighed as the weight.
manufacturer B's marketing team decides that in order to compete they need to claim their frame is a few grams lighter than A's frame, so they do.
Manufacturer C's marketing team sees this B's weight claims and goes lower, without even knowing what their frame weighs.
Next year A has a "New design" that is 20% lighter, but it's not or they'd get sued because of the thing falling apart.
A few years ago I ordered an Alpina Fork for my Track bike and it came in weighing over 120 grams heavier than what they claimed. Just the fork, 120 grams. I chose the fork based on it's rake, I would have returned it if it were flexy. It worked fine.
If some salesman tells you what the weight of something is I wouldn't believe him. What's the point of asking a snake oil salesman if snake oil works anyways? Look for customer reviews and pictures of the product on a scale post sale.
>>917466
>Even a lot of carbon frame manufacturers stopped giving frame weights years ago.
Most of them give frame weights for their light weight frames, and except for a few brands, they're usually spot on (if you remove the hanger, cable guide, screws, and anything that can come off)
>>917460
>Literally, why would I buy a super exotic metal frame without knowing the weight?
there is no reason to know the weight
>>917472
The entire point of super exotic frame materials is the weight. It's stupid to think the weight doesn't matter.
On any build, you want to know the weight of parts on any bike you are going to put DA, Ultegra, SR, Record, Red or Force on. Because there is no practical difference except weight between them and 105, Chorus and Rival respectively.
Knowing the weight doesn't mean obsessing over the weight and sacrificing ride quality or durability for weight. You do want to know what you are paying for over a plain old double butted steel frame, just like you would want to know the weight savings by upgrading groups.
>>917473
>The entire point of super exotic frame materials is the weight.
Get a carbon frame. A carbon frame is for you.
>>917476
I had a laugh there too and then stopped reading.
>>917476
>Get a carbon frame. A carbon frame is for you.
Your argument is retarded. If you're paying the premium for a super light steel frame, or a Ti frame for any reason but having a shiny unpainted frame, you should know the weight.
>>917478
jokeoverhead.jpg
Stainless Steel custom frames are about being a fucking dickhead, not about weight
But agreed they should at least give an estimate. Problem is the type of guy who buys a $2,000 custom stainless frame is the kind of guy who has a metaldown over 100g above estimated weight
>>917478
That's a little better. These materials that don't require paint to keep corrosion at bay allow the craftsmanship to be shown. Good welds can be showcased and the owner doesn't need to worry about chipping paint or clearcoats. The problem with how your framing your question is that you only want one answer (and it happens to be the wrong one). So here you are asking qualified people for an answer to a question and getting upset when the you give you the correct one. IF ALL YOU CARE ABOUT IS WEIGHT YOU'RE DAMNED RIGHT THE BEST FRAME FOR YOU IS CARBON. You basically came right out and said all you care about it weight. Numerous people point you in the direction you should be looking, and then you spin right back around. Stop insisting on wasting everyone's time. You're being a cunt.
>>917478
Just get a chromed 4130 frame. All the bling for a fraction of the cost.
Custom frames are for snobs like >>917496, or malproportioned mutants. They throw money at things not because they're better, but just because they cost more. You're better off saving the few thousand bucks you saved buying an off the shelf frame and spending it on better components.
>>917528
There are reasonable arguments for paying a bit extra for local skilled labor vs whatever you can find for the lowest price.
> Just get a chromed 4130 frame. All the bling for a fraction of the cost
You didn't just recommend a walmart bike did you? :D
>>917547
I could spend $3000 on a custom frame, or I could buy a $500 frame and write a $2500 tax deductible check to the charity of my choice.
>>917528
>the only possible options are a Chinese Wal*Mart BSO of unbutted 4130 and to have Andrea Pesenti's zombie finger your butthole and personally make a frame based on the strength of your sphincter muscles out of Columbus Max using his bare hands
Are you actually serious?
>>917551
Brilliant! Send that $500 to China and then help the US homeless steelworkers by buying them some Chinese made blankets to keep warm when they sleep on the streets so you don't have to pay taxes. Everybody wins!
>>917554
That way you can help 10 Chinamen and 10 US steel workers instead of just supporting a single hipster who decided to make a hobby his job.
>>917567
>anyone who doesn't hate their job like me is a hipster
MUSA products rule and Handmade bikes are sexy as fuck
Fredly stainless steel bikes are for rich dudes that have never heard of 4chan. Aluminum taiwanese blob-weldered shitboxes are great for 99% of cyclists.
I'd get a handmade frame just to get mentally fellated talking about "I want this, I want that, Paint it like this! measure my inseam AGAIN BABY"
>>917593
>measure my inseam AGAIN BABY"
Just admit you're gay and you want to pay someone to fondle your nether regions.
People still care about weight in 2016?
>>917593
>MUSA products rule
Literally no supporting statements
I have a custom steel bike (Stinner) and it's about a 54 size. It's not even lightweight steel, but still came out relatively lightweight. Enve 2.0 fork, CK headset, Alloy cockpit, Ultegra 6800 and 1600g wheels. Depending on the tires it's around 18lb flat with pedals, which is light enough for me (I have about 10 lbs to lose). I didn't even weigh the frame before I built it, because it honestly does not matter.
Honestly, if you're looking at a custom steel bike, why are you concerned about grams? You are a durp.
Whats with all the LBS-type shills these days? Is it because shops are hiring to be staffed for spring?
>>917462
plus if he uses another half stick of welding rod and the weight isnt exactly as quoted, numbers-spec-boy is all butthurt and cries on the interwebs
>>917478
so buy one and weigh it. then either return it to where you sold it, or sell it on the open market.
film the whole thing and start your own youtube channel.
>>917567
> steelworkers are either homeless, jobless, Chinese, or hipsters.
Okay.
Because the weight difference between a typical 1800g butted frame, and an ultralight 1300g is about $2,000, or $4/g and they're either really torsional flexible because of the thin tubing, or really vertically stiff because of the oversize tubing, or sometimes a bit of both, and come with durability issues. Ultralight steel and titanium is a poor investment, very few gains for the extra cost, and it comes with drawbacks as well. It's mostly for people who masturbate to high end bike parts.
>>917460
>hurr durr i wont tell you the weight
>its a custom hand built frame
>its better because voodoo bullshit
>if you are about weight go buy carbon
Weight is not the only thing that matters when it comes to a frame. Just like clock speed is not the only thing that matters with CPUs, and megapixels are not the only thing that matters with cameras, obsession on weight above all else usually results in a compromised final product.
If they are selling it the frame as an ultralight frame, they should tell you the weight. If they are selling it based on other qualities, why does weight really matter? Why do you care so much? If you care, seek out a framebuilder specifically shooting for ultralight.
>>917639
> Just like clock speed is not the only thing that matters with CPUs, and megapixels are not the only thing that matters with cameras, obsession on weight above all else usually results in a compromised final product.
>hurr durr we wont tell you clock speed or megapixels
>its better because unquantifiable super tech X
>If they are selling it the frame as an ultralight frame, they should tell you the weight. If they are selling it based on other qualities, why does weight really matter? Why do you care so much? If you care, seek out a framebuilder specifically shooting for ultralight.
>hurr durr
>im going to sell a frame made from a super light tube set and super light materials
>but im not selling it as a super light frame
>the quality youre buying isnt the super light materials its the sticker that says its made form a super light material
Literal retard.
Aluminium is literally the best.
Half the posters in this thread sound like they could be shilling Pinarello and Colnago carbon frames. It's not about the weight. It was painted in Italia, and you have that Italian craftsmanship and you are supporting the Italian old masters and supporting Italian jobs. Don't worry that the weight is higher than aluminum, it is about the Italian geometry handling and ride quality of the squigly diggly forks.
>>917648
>not buying made in america TREK TREK TREK
>>917648
>Illegetimi tubbi crapi
>Gaspipe
>>917608
Is that what appearsF50 and what looks like a Mondail in the background? Also what frame that be?
>>917639
Not giving information about an important characteristic of the product you're selling is retarded. Here the weight of the frame is, no matter what you'll say, an important characteristic of the frame.
However caring only about the weight for a frame that wasn't crafted in the sole purpose of being ultra light weight is retarded too, i give you that.
To re-use your CPU metaphor : it would be completely retarded for a cpu constructor to not tell you the clock speed of their CPU just because some retarded customers only care about clockspeed.
SCOTT master race
>>917671
Here's the thing: If I'm not a weight weenie, /why do I care/? If they're using good tubing from Reynolds, Columbus, True Temper, or another premium manufacturer, I trust that the frame is going to be fairly light. If they don't list a weight, I understand that they're not shooting for as light as possible and adjust my expectations accordingly.
If you ARE a weight weenie, there are a zillion framebuilders who do advertise their frame weights - it's not like there's an epidemic of weight secrecy - so I don't get what the big deal is. Buy a bike from an outfit that obsesses over weight, like Rod Bikes.
Back to the CPU metaphor: Why the hell does anyone even care about MHz or GHz? It's a super poor proxy for actual processing power - clock speeds have basically plateu'd for the last decade, but a modern 3.7GHz Haswell i7 is a fuckton faster than a 4.0GHz Pentium D, even in single-threaded applications. Clock speed is a MARKETING NUMBER, and the whole computer industry suffered for years when engineering was driven by "beating the other guys number" rather than simply making BETTER PROCESSORS. Similarly, the megapixel wars were a race to the bottom that resulted in objectively worse cameras across the industry for several years. Obsessing on one easily-measured number at the expense of understanding the whole product never turns out well.
Custom built frames vary from batch to batch and frame to frame, depending on how they're customized for each customer. I completely understand why some custom frame builders don't want to paint themselves into a corner. If you care about weight, find a framebuilder who cares about weight at much as you do.
>>917904
>build with super light low durability tubes
>dont tell the customer exactly what hes paying more for and sacrificing durability for
>just build up the frame with ultra light tubes and charge more because it has a sticker so it will be good
Not telling frame weight is acceptable up to Zona/Plat Ox/631 level. Beyond that, you need to explain the gains in weight loss that justify having a less durable frame and paying more.
>>917905
Just get a Trek Emonda and stop shitposting.
Seriously, it'll be everything you ever wanted.
>>917917
I wasn't aware they made titanium emondas
Weight matters a shitload when it comes to full size folding bikes. You could never get a full size folder down to 9kg without titanium.
>>917905
The way you're raging it's like you think it's really common practice for makers of $2000 custom frames to not bother mentioning the weight and for buyers of $2000 custom frames to not bother asking.
Why don't you go for a ride and calm the fuck down.
>>917671
frame weight is a conversation you'd have with a good frame builder as part of a larger conversation about tube selection, geometry, ride handling characteristics. If you're serious about buying a custom handbuilt, keep in mind that these are the variables that influence frame weight. Also, frame weight is a relatively small part of the picture when talking about a bikes overall weight. It is far better to spend $$$ to make your wheels light than it is to make your frame light.
For ultralight steel, look up "Rodriguez" of R&E cycles
>>917662
360 Spider and yes a Mondial. Frame is a Paduano Caligola.
>>917496
OP:
>Why don't they show the weight?
Full mongo:
>IF YOU CARE ABOUT WEIGHT U NEED CARBON OMG
Even fucking Decathlon selling 200€ bikes will tell you the frame weight. The concern of OP is a valid one, since some mongolic frame sellers won't show you the weights. Those are the very same sellers that will sell some poor soul a "chromoly" frame claiming it's more comfortable than anything else. Truth is, even low-grade rolled aluminium makes for more comfortable frames. And lighter. And stiffer. And they don't look like your grandpa's bike.
But that doesn't trouble me, since I buy frames from reputable carbon sellers and always get a quoted accurate weight. Those still dealing with lesser frame materials are bound by the inaccuracies of tubing imperfections and irregular welds.
By the way, when someone says "I don't care about the weight" he really means "I can't afford light components".
I literally don't see a reason to buy a custom steel/ti frame when there's custom carbon frames. It's like you WANT it to be worse, lol.
>>918047
A lot of people have this crazy idea that bikes should be useful for stuff like racks and panniers. Yeah even people who can afford custom bikes. I know it's hard to grasp if you live in Colorado or Wisconsin, but in the PNW and the northeast, these crazy people actually exist!
Last I checked carbon was not very good at this. If some radical new manufacturing technique has been invented I'd be curious to hear about it.
>browsing heat treated steel frames
>browsing titanium frames
>browsing stainless frames
It's clear that the OP is not talking about standard CrMo custom frames. He's talking about lightweight metal frames, made from lightweight materials. If a lightweight material is used, weight is a consideration. I can not comprehend the idiots in this thread that don't get this.
>>918059
OP never provided a link to what he's talking about because this is a shitty bait thread like every bikefag thread that shits up this board.
>>918061
Bump for the filthy cager :)
>>918058
>i want a utility bike
>lets make it out of super light tubing that is easily dented if you even consider locking it to a post and crumples like a soda can in a crash!
>yeah!
>>918071
A lot of people can and do order custom steel touring frames. They usually go with something midweight, my friend has one in 725 he used to tour Canada and Europe. It's perfectly fine for this purpose.
For someone who has a career, the main concern when getting hit by a car is lost income and permanent disability. Not a bike worth a few thousand.
>>918074
>thread is about light weight tubing
>touring bike
>a crash
>getting hit by a car
The strawmanning
>>918076
Do you know what a pannier is? Just curious because you don't seem to know much about bikes.
>>918093
This thread is about frames made from light weight tube sets, not loaded touring bikes, custom or otherwise.
You are the one that doesn't seem to know much about bikes if you can't grasp that.
>>918094
Well, the reason I asked is that you said "if crabbon exists I can't imagine EVER why anyone would get anything but crabbon, lolz crabbon is teh best steel weighs 9000 pounds anyone who gets not crabbon wants the bike to be worst"
So I explained why you might have missed a critical piece of information with your reasoning (reasoning which, ironically, is basically a strawman argument), and that apparently flew right over your head and said if you get run over by a truck somehow the crabbon will be totally fine but the steel will be destroyed.
So I then explained to you why, for most people, not getting run over by the truck is much more important than what happens to the bike if you got run over anyway. At which point, you started complaining about a straw man and you were just pretending to be retarded. Not really sure what the straw man was supposed to be, but I'll let that go.
But I will ask again: do you know what a pannier is? Because it's weird that you didn't stop right there and say something, considering your average rack plus empty panniers weighs many multiples of the weight the difference between 725 and crabbon. Let alone the difference between, say, S3 and crabbon, which is basically negligible.
Most people looking for a custom frame are shopping on a lot more than just weight. Not that weight is irrelevant, but if it's the ONLY consideration then you can just pick up chinese carbon for next to nothing. I also recommend eating less you fat fuck.
>>918099
>Well, the reason I asked is that you said
Not me, but I can see why you would assume so.
>stuff
Not applicable
>OP
Uses " traditional butted steel" as the baseline for comparison and asks why he should consider lighter materials over it.
Still doesn't change the fact you strawman like fuck.
>>918099
> Let alone the difference between, say, S3 and crabbon, which is basically negligible.
The difference is around a pound. You should stop listening to Rod comparing his XXXS 650C super light and flexy S3 frame to a medium sized relatively heavy, for current standards, frames.
>>918100
>you strawman like fuck
Please explain how I'm strawmanning when the guy I replied to, who apparently is not you, was doing a textbook strawman argument.
Most people who ride hard, and ride often, recognize that there is a cost to weight, and I'm not talking about money. Again, if weight is ALL you care about, just get an alibabababa frame and bling it out with crabbon everything. And take a shit before you ride. Custom frames attract people who want a combination of geometry, materials, and features that they can't easily get from a standard factory frame.
>>918105
>car crash
>>918105
>weight is ALL you care about
>>918105
>not shitting before you ride
>>918105
> geometry, materials, and features that they can't easily get from a standard factory frame doesnt apply to custom garbon
>>918119
What? When did I ever say that? Are you high?
>>918120
>crash
Pretty sure getting hit by a car was you, and you strawmanned all crashes are car crashes.
>Well, yes. That is all the guy cares about, those were literally his exact words
No, it literally wasn't. You are literally projecting.
Did you even read the OP?
>Why would I not just get traditional butted steel if they're going to be like that?
>>918121
You were claiming you were responding to the guy who said custom carbon was better than custom other materials.
>>918122
>Pretty sure getting hit by a car was you, and you strawmanned all crashes are car crashes.
The most common kind of crash for a responsible cyclist is to get doored or hit by a cager. Crashing into other cyclists is something that happens in a race. You do not ride a custom steel touring bike in a race, inb4 I'm not allowed to talk about that because you changed the scope of the discussion and now you're mad that you're dumb.
>No, it literally wasn't. You are literally projecting.
Yes, it was. Reread the definition of "projecting"
>Did you even read the OP post?
Where did you see me quote the op? Stop changing the argument because you posted something stupid.
>>918122
>deleting your post because you can't accept being wrong
wow, just wow
>>917467
you simply cannot have proven this statement unless you have lived an extremely unusual life. unless you have a source, of course?
>>918126
>The most common kind of crash for a responsible cyclist is to get doored
>For someone who has a career, the main concern when getting hit by a car is lost income and permanent disability.
>Yes, it was. Reread the definition of "projecting"
You're only quoting yourself when you say someone said weight is the only thing that matters. You are unable to provide a quote because only you said it when you projected
>Where did you see me quote the op?
It's what this thread is about
>Stop changing the argument because you posted something stupid.
Your arguments are far more stupid
>>918127
It's right there you blind retard >>918124
The only reason I deleted it was because
>OP post
>>918105
>just get an alibabababa frame and bling it out with crabbon everything
I can SMELL how poor you are.
>>918342
How much do you make?
>>918342
>>918418
Oh boy here we go
>>918126
>Responsible cyclist
>Riding in the door zone
nope.avi
>>918418
Enough to ride carbon.
Keep crying about MUH REEL STEEL as you get lapped.
These threads always get filled with angry, salty posters going on about "go buy crabbon" "buy a carbon chinese frame fucking fred". If you're too poor to afford carbon, just say it. It's okay. But don't pretend steel/alu/ti are superior just because you can't afford a decent carbon frame.
No cyclist who rides carbon ever goes back to other frame materials.
>>918538
Some go back half way and get a bike with a steel/ti frame, but they still almost always have carbon forks.
>>918538
I've got a steel frame with steel forks I ride often. Have two Aluminum frames I ride a lot.
A Ti frame I put tons of miles on.
And a Carbon frame that I race on.
I was telling the "muh grams" poster to go buy Carbon....Because it seemed like that's what would suit his perceived needs the best.
I'm not the "how much do you make" guy.
I am a guy who rides Carbon and goes back to riding everything else very often. I have raced on a steel bike and would again, I've gone to win races on one of my Aluminum bikes and left the Carbon one at home, just because that's what I felt like riding.
>>918544
>I was telling the "muh grams" poster to go buy Carbon....Because it seemed like that's what would suit his perceived needs the best.
>muh grams guy
>Literally, why would I buy a super exotic metal frame without knowing the weight?
>Why would I not just get traditional butted steel if they're going to be like that?
>>917466
>stuff
You are either a) so old you got into riding during the steel frame TdF era and simply cannot accept carbon for the superior material it is, or b) cannot afford a quality carbon bike so have to justify that failure with some fairy-spec hogwash.
>>917686
Here, here.
golfclap.webm
>>918544
There was no "muh grams" guy. OP asked why do steel/ti framebuilders get so anal when they are asked about any weight. Then you and other poor riders started the "get chinese crabbon" "aliexpress crabbon frame lol lol" chant as they always do. Every thread that remotely mentions frame material gets the same treatment by low-income folks who simply hate what they can't afford.
>I was telling the "muh grams" poster to go buy Carbon....Because it seemed like that's what would suit his perceived needs the best.
He never mentioned wanting a low weight.
>>918581
What's with all this poorfag shit?
I just told you I've got a freaking arsenal of bikes, how poor could I possibly be? Do you need the specs on all of them?...... Ohhhhh, I didn't tell you what they weigh, so I must be poor!
>>918679
You told us, but instead of showing up with a timestamp, you keep posting non-relevant reaction pictures.
>>918684
I'm sure there are people who would consider me poor, but I certainly have the means to buy another bicycle. I think you're projecting with this whole poor fag thing, it's as if that's the biggest insult you can come up with and just toss it out there rather than having a rational discussion with people
>>918747
>stacks of cash
This is literally a poorfag meme.
>no bike
As expected.
>>918538
>Enough to ride carbon.
That literally means nothing. I had a carbon bike when I was a broke ass student and I had no sense of priority, only that crabbon was TEH BEST!~!~!oNE
Now I realize it's not really that useful, hence why I don't bother
Since you didn't say how much you make, it's safe to assume you spend way beyond your means on your stupid crabbon garbage.
>>918747
sweet stax brah but u gotta use shoestrangs not bands cuz u pop them thangs with stax that fat
>>918747
>not having a functioning banking infrastructure
Which war-torn third world country do you live in?
>>918756
Nah, he withdrew that from the bank after his financial standing was brought in to question.
>>918753
Wat bike is gud for $100,000?
>>918747
Isn't this the trust fund dolphin kid that everyone hates?
>>918767
They could also be a moderately affluent drug dealer. Not big enough that they have laundering operations, but big enough that they have a large steady income of dirty cash they can't deposit.
>>918768
Money Changer?
>>918898
So when I'm on the steel one with stainless steel fenders I'm poor.
Got it, thanks for the info, I'll conduct myself accordingly from this point forward.
>>918910
Ohhhhh snap!
San FrAnon has revealed himself.
/4chan argument automatically over
...proving once again that there's no autism like /n/ autism. good lord you guys are drooling mouth breathers.
>>918959
Welcome to the internet
>>918990
>as you can see from my crabbon bike, I am definitely not poor
I can tell you're the kind of minimum wage burger flipper who blows his money on limited edition nikes and dr. dre headphones in order to seem like a [insert poor people word for wealthy people here]
>>918990
Jesus Christ you fucking foamer, there's not a single Michelin tire in that photo. Keep posting, this thread will autosage before you accidentally get one thing right.
>>918910
Honestly, those are all poorfag bikes except the LOOK, which is a loltarck bike.
>>918910
>my steel bike is a SURLY
>drones on and on about the magic of custom handmade steel ans poorfag crabbon
>>919078
He simply cannot deal with his poverty and the lack of carbon in his life. Thus, he must keep talking about the "magic" (read: low cost) of poorly-manufactured steel frames with patchy welds and questionable tubing made in a vietnamese sweatshop, to be sold under the name Surly or any other hipster brands.
A real cyclist wouldn't need excuses, and would ride only the best material available. And that's carbon.
>>919099
Honestly the only thing amazing about crabbon is for about a grand you can get a lighter bike than anything else under the sun
So yeah, congrats on your nashbar carbon 105 or whatever :)
>>919100
>the only thing amazing about crabbon is for about a grand you can get a lighter bike
The only thing shining more brigthly than your retardation is your absolute lack of cycling knowledge. I understand that being unable to afford carbon must be a frustrating experience, but please try to live with it. You can stick to low-quality, poorly designed metal frames that no serious cyclist would touch with a ten-feet pole, but you know that you're using literally the worst material available. Just because it's cheap and you can'd afford better.
Carbon framebuilders take pride in the low weight of their creations, while steel framebuilders are literally too embarassed to publish their frame weights. And the counstruction with round tubes is so primitive that a bad weld can add hundreds of grams to an already heavy frame.
There's literally not a single cyclist who can afford carbon and chooses to ride steel. That's a fact.
>>919106
>There's literally not a single cyclist who can afford carbon and chooses to ride steel
What is this the 90s? Do you also believe that eating blue corn chips puts you at the cutting edge of food fashion?
Get with the times, carbon is mainstream now, and people are over it. I had a carbon bike when I was a broke student. It is nice that with carbon you can make a fairly light bike on the cheap, but in the grand scheme of things a pound or two in exchange for exploding frames isn't actually that appealing to people who actually ride. No, your weekend excursions on your nashbar/BD/whatever doesn't count.
>>919106
>There's literally not a single cyclist who can afford carbon and chooses to ride steel. That's a fact.
When will roadies learn
>>919111
>but in the grand scheme of things a pound or two
Confirmed obese. If you cannot appreciate a two pound weight saving on your bike, that's because you already have hundreds on you.
>exploding frames
Well meme'd my friend, I tip my Surly fedora to you.
I see you're getting overly salty. There's no reason to be upset. Carbon is for serious cyclists and any rider who isn't poor. Steel is simply an inferior choice in any circumstance, the only appeal is the price. And honestly, if you can't afford a good carbon bike you shouldn't be calling yourself a cyclist.
It's a simple choice. If you're poor and you want to risk your life over patchy welds and cheap-o tubing, buy a steel bike. If you're a cyclist, buy a carbon bike. There's literally not a single reason for using anything else than carbon,
>>919214
I give you a 3/10. Somebody will probably give a serious reply.
>>919111
OP doesn't want an exploding frame.
He's asking why he should pay extra for a lightweight steel or ti frame over a heavier one if they won't tell him how much lighter it is.
>>919112
>he doesn't know what a fact is
>>919214
Crabbon is for poseurs who think that their cringey 12k weave will make everyone think they're rich patricians even though they're just poor 22 year olds working their first temp job and going cycling on saturday and sunday (as long as the weather is good and they're in the mood).
You probably went with sora so you could afford more crabbon bits for your "patrician" bike, you sad, sad little man.
