I never listened to a Beatles song until I was twenty-three. I heard a few snippets when Across the Universe (2007) was advertised. And, I enjoyed the covers on American Idol. But, I never heard them sing their own songs until I was cornered by white coworkers shocked and amazed at my inability to name a singular member of the group or song.
Their puzzlement went from inquiry to harassment to public shaming as they paraded me around the office showing me off to other white people who were similarly shocked at my apparent “poor upbringing.” They had no idea that their projections of what constituted “good music” denoted their own simmering privilege. Meanwhile, they were discrediting everything I actually had grown up listening to.
It all started when a young white lady in the office was commenting on her favorite Beatles song. When asked, I responded, “Which group is that?” Then, ‘el shit’ hit ‘el fan.’ I got the Beatles mixed up with the Eagles mixed up with the Rolling Stones. They asked me to name them and I said “Well, I know it’s not Elton John. Bob Dylan? Maybe Billy Joel?” Shit everywhere. It was completely foreign to them that I could have possibly missed something so integral to their lives. So, they attempted to shame me.
The responses I got from everyone were in virtual lockstep.
>“What in the world did you listen to at home?”
>“What? Did you live under a rock?”
>“Do you just never turn on the radio?”
>“Where are you from?”
To which I responded, “Well, I’m black.” And, I simply explained that there are other radio stations that play other music. Unsatisfied with this answer, they pelted me with further inquiries.
>“Do you just never watch TV? cause the Beatles are EVERYWHERE!”
>>64807584
It was cute for about two seconds then it just got stale. What was funniest about it was that they were almost offended when I mentioned non-Beatles members. Like I had somehow broken white people music code by mentioning Billy Joel or Elton John in the same conversation. The Beatles were so sacred to them that they guffawed about it and it became an office joke until I eventually left the team.
Isn’t it funny though how I was assumed to be some foreigner transplant because I didn’t conform to white musical interests? They questioned my mom’s parenting skills before they ventured to think that maybe black folks just aren’t interested in listening to boring music sung by vocally-challenged British men.
My mother raised me on Anita Baker, Luther Vandross, The Four Tops, The Commodores, Patti Labelle, and a healthy dose of gospel artists. I have heard and appreciated a host of other greats. Presently, I love the soul sounds of India.Arie, Jill Scott, and John Legend. Not to mention I come from a family of talented singers, rappers, and song writers. I was never lacking for musicality in my home or life. But, my music and upbringing didn’t “count” to these folks because it didn’t measure up to their standards. This is the definition of white superiority.
For many white people to assume that their music is “good music” and any other music pales in comparison is a) wrong and b) bigoted. I once had a girl tell me, “I hate ‘black music.’ It all sounds the same and they only sing about sex.” This is not an anomaly. For many whites, “black music” is inherently substandard. All the artists are interchangeable.
>>64807594
These premises are why every single time a black male releases a new single, onlooking whites exclaim frivolities like “Is that Sisqo?” (yes, I have witnessed this on several occasions with my own ears and eyes and yes, I am aware that Sisqo is only really known to white people because of Thong Song...released fifteen years ago).
No, white people, every black male singer is not “Ursher” or Lil’ Jon or Nelly or Sisqo. But, if you can’t figure that out, why is it so confounding when black people can’t parse out white singers who are essentially the same vocally, visually, and chronically? I mean, at least Sisqo had blonde hair. Lil’ Jon has dreads and a bejeweled chalice. Please tell me a vocal difference between Sting and U2? And, couldn’t Rod Stewart and Barry Manilow be brothers? There really isn’t a ton of diversity here.
I would love to say these experiences were flukes. But, no. I had a young white woman at my second job do the same with Taylor Swift. When I said Swift wasn’t a great singer, she went slightly nuts. She exclaimed how talented she is and how I must have just been listening to the wrong songs. She tried to make me listen to her favorites. I noted that I know plenty of people who could sing circles around her to which she replied, “but can they play the guitar and write music?” Such a simple-minded girl. This implies that Taylor Swift only sounds good on some of her songs and that she shouldn’t be regarded as a vocal artist but as a musician and song writer. Yet, she records albums. See the cognitive dissonance there?
This idea that white people’s mediocrity is better than black people’s virtuosity is exactly why white people keep winning singing reality TV shows. It’s also another reason why phenomenal black singers, musicians, and songwriters struggle to make headway in an industry infatuated with faux artists like Iggy Azalea.
What kind of Buzzfeed article is this
>>64807626
No, this isn’t an argumentative post explaining how much better “our” music is than “your” music. It’s just an opportunity for white music nazis and white culture zealots to peer through the looking-glass in a sense.
Personally, I don’t know many white musicians pre-1990. I am okay with that. I don’t feel like I have missed out on much. I’m not even remotely interested in the Beatles, Taylor Swift, or Iggy Azalea. They don’t fit my palate. See how that works? It’s my palate. You don’t get to define it.
I know it feels uncomfortable to realize that your music (and therefore subculture) are no longer as much a ubiquitous force as they once were. I know you are completely flabbergasted that anyone would shirk the pillars you use to define yourself musically or otherwise. And, I know you are breaking out in hives and experiencing heart palpitations as you read this. Don’t worry. It won’t last too long. Soon, you’ll be used to not setting the tone for everyone else’s lives. Your way of life will be just that: yours. It only hurts if you are too possessive, self-absorbed, and bigoted to not get over it.
More casual racism. I get it. "The oppressor can't be oppressed" but holy shit you can't just write about white people and black people like this. He acts like there aren't people that heard all kinds of music growing up.
>>64807650
>Your way of life will be just that: yours. It only hurts if you are too possessive, self-absorbed, and bigoted to not get over it.
Says the guy that just wrote a term paper being bigoted towards white people. HAHA oh I love this.
>>64807718
>PoC
>capable of being "bigoted" towards their oppressors
Good meme.
Also...
>guy
this is fucking really long man I dunno if I can read it all
if it makes you feel any better i'm also white and didn't hear a beatles song until i was 18
>>64807650
also literally nobody gives a shit
if you think whiteys are going around lamenting the fact that some random black person on the internet doesn't care about the rolling stones then you're deluded
>>64807746
>believing that the definition of a word changes depending upon the race of the person using it
LOL
Bigoted: having or revealing an obstinate belief in the superiority of one's own opinions and a prejudiced intolerance of the opinions of others
>>64807906
>using white supremacist definitions of words
baka
>>64807933
Troll post
>>64807933
>baka
>censoring AAVE and replacing it with Japanese because Asians are a "model minority" and less offensive to your whiteness
Why am I not surprised?
>It’s also another reason why phenomenal black singers, musicians, and songwriters struggle to make headway in an industry infatuated with faux artists like Iggy Azalea.
Holy shit what cancer. It's called having label support you fucking moron. She got picked essentially.
>It’s also another reason why phenomenal black singers, musicians, and songwriters
For every good singer, musician, and songwriter, there are about ten more that are absolutely trash.
Someone doesn't know what culture is, is essentially the best way to describe your cancer.
>>64807933
>>using white supremacist definitions of words
>Implying Oxford is white supremacist, or Miriam, or any other dictionary or university which has black people in their staff.
You're quite retarded aren't you.
iggy azalea >>>>>>>> kendrick llama
>>64808045
>implying that a few token PoC ("b-but muh black friends") is any sort of meaningful counter to the generations of innate whiteness (i.e. racism) that plagues these problematic institutions
s.m.h.
>>64807584
>OPfw
>“Well, I’m black.”
I'm not surprised you never heard The Beatles. I'm more surprised you have a job
>>64808150
This really says it all, doesn't it?
Whiteness distilled into a single post.
s.m.h.
>>64808097
>Implying that black people don't have any individual agency in which they can contribute to society and are actively involved in academics such as linguistics.
>Implying that black people have to conform to your collective ideology of identity politics, blaming everything on a system with no substantial evidence, and refusing to allow them to have individual agency or risk disowning them as being part of the black community.
c a n c e r
Unironically, kill yourself.
>>64808223
>regards, a middle-class white male
>>64808284
>regards, an entitled middle to upper class black guy.
Way to break those libtard stereotypes.
>>64808319
>PoC acts anything but subservient to whites
>they're being "entitled"
Might as well just call me "uppity"
Also
>middle to upper class
>guy
s.m.h.
>>64807584
>“Well, I’m black.”
Okay whitey.
>>64807584
Awesome post, OP.
I'm pretty glad you shared this. I was very surprised by white people when I first came to america being totally flabbergasted by my lack of knowledge of something called Hollywood Undead (I'm not sure if that's a musical or an album or a band. It's bad regardless). I know that white people simply aren't going read anything from Latin America as anything other than a deviation from "real" music.
I don't have to deal with that much because I always grew up really admiring american musicians. I didn't know that there was such a sharp divide between "white" music and "black" music where people would grow up only knowing one of those
>>64808369
>>PoC acts anything but subservient to whites
>they're being "entitled"
No, PoC (cancerous title) relying on identity politics and collective ideologies to shame other black people. Relying on collective ideologies and labels to further an agenda with no substantial evidence to prove any of your claims other than anecdotal evidence based on your own experience, which of course is based on an ideologue.
>>middle to upper class
>guy
>university student
>10 year foster child
>crownward
>has been homeless on multiple occasions.
kek. Don't even.
>>64808489
Okay. I'm going to pretend that you did not just compare your life, as a white male with innate and irrevocable privelege, to the constant, daily struggles faced by PoC. No, that couldn't be the case. I literally cannot be reading that in 2016. No.
>>64808631
>I literally cannot be reading that in 2016.
[current year]
Mm love me them fallacies.
>as a white male with innate and irrevocable privelege
With no substantial evidence to prove such but okay.
>daily struggles faced by PoC
Daily struggles of affirmative action and favourably? Whilst living in the West? Aww muffin, you have it so hard.
>>64808801
>With no substantial evidence to prove such but okay.
Look in the mirror?
Are you...
>white
>male
Congratulations, you are now aware of your privilege. Acknowledge this fact, and you might be well on the way to becoming a decent human being...
>Daily struggles of affirmative action and favourably? Whilst living in the West?
...or not, s.m.h.
>>64807626
>And, couldn’t Rod Stewart and Barry Manilow be brothers? There really isn’t a ton of diversity here.
Er, Manilow is known for having a flawlessly, velvet-smooth voice. Stewart's voice is instantly recognizable for how ragged and harsh-sounding it is.
it's not that I'm not sympathetic to your position, but that example is you doing what you're accusing whites of doing. so you're guilty of the same shit.
your co-workers sound like dicks but they do have a point. If you were playing Motown hits and a white person couldn't pick out "Stop In The Name Of Love" or "My Girl," you'd think they were retarded, even if their parents raised them on only white stuff. And the Beatles crossed-over more than anyone else of their time: Wes Montgomery did an entire album of Beatles covers. Ella Fitzgerald does "Can't buy me Love." Stevie Wonder's version of "We can Work it Out" surpasses the original. I read an interview with Chris Rock where he said he was at an all-black celebrity gathering where Stevie was at the piano and they all had a Beatles sing-along. I know a guy from Bed-Stuy with whom I usually talk about rap music and he's a huge Beatles fan; made a bunch of Beatles iron-ons for all his baby daughter's onsies.
I agree the whites in your story were over-reacting and dog-piling on you was a shitty thing to do, but it sounds like you're projecting their bullshit on /mu/tants and word is bond half of us think the Beatles are over-rated anyway.
>>64808801
Walk me through what emotions you were feeling while reading her post and writing your own. Then consider what kind of person responds to those emotions the way you are
>>64808843
>Look in the mirror?
>Are you...
>>white
>>male
Someone doesn't know what evidence is.
I know this is probably bait from an edgy 16 year old, but just in case you're a tumblrtard, just remember to kill yourself. World would be better off without your cancerous collectivism.
>Acknowledge this fact, and you might be well on the way to becoming a decent human being...
>Implying being a decent human being revolves around pandering to your identity politics and collective cancer.
Of course this is what is wrong with your argument, thus making you an ideologue. You see you, and your own ideology as morally superior. You cannot substantiate any of your arguments, you cannot provide legitimate evidence to support any of your claims other than anecdotal evidence which has no validity as it is completely subjective, and you cannot view the world outside of your ideology. This is what we also call an ideological lens, something that you cannot remove, thus making you an ideologue.
>...or not, s.m.h.
I can almost smell the BLM tears.
I actually can't believe people are taking this bait, jesus christ mu
>>64808914
>Implying emotions matter
I don't give a fuck about feelings, they're subjective and useless to an argument. Grow up.
>>64808843
>>64808631
>>64808445
>>64808176
>>64808097
>>64807933
>>64807746
Sure is reddit in here
The best part about this is that The Beatles themselves were heavily influenced by numerous black musicians (and numerous black musicians were inlfuenced by them). Not to mention that pretending that Beatlemania didn't penetrate black America during that time is just incorrect. Sure perhaps not as ubiquitously, but The Beatles were more or less a cultural sensation that affected the entire country, regardless of race.
Like this dude seriously felt the need to go on some dumb racial politics rant because he got butthurt that he wasn't familiar with an extremely popular band. Fuckin kek.
>>64809077
Because he can't differentiate culture and identity politics.
>>64808982
I'm done trying to reason with you.
If you are this blind to your own privilege/whiteness, and completely willing to, for one moment, even consider it, then there is nothing worth discussing here.
>>64809127
>I can't prove my point with substantial evidence.
>I can't attack my opponent's argument without relying on identity politics
>I can't form a substantiated argument
>I rely on identity politics to shape my world view and thus will never succeed as succeeding is synonymous with "whiteness"
Have fun at your community college with your useless social science degree.
>>64809127
>I refuse to believe that black people have individual agency, and thus shame them for not conforming to my vision of what being "black" is.
You're the racist in this situation.
>>64809327
>PoC
>racist
I didn't realize this was a meme thread.
But please, continue to try and dominate the conversation and tell us what straight white dudes think we need to do.
>>64809077
AYY YO HOL UP *smacks lips*
YOU BE SAYIN *pulls up pants*
YO YOU BE SAYIN
WE INFLUENCED THE BEATLES AND SHIT?
>>64809384
>PoC
>racist
Someone doesn't keep up in the news. Azelia Banks anyone?
Oh but wait, you conform to pop academics and the cancerous Marxist version of the word racist. Right, excuse me.
>straight white dudes think we need to do.
I'm not the one trying to express a cancerous ideology onto music and culture. That's you. You've failed to even make a point or a single substantiated argument (or you refuse to because you simply can't). That's what we call a "goodbye you just lost this debate".
>>64809441
fuck off
Just because OP (or where ever OP took this from) is retarded doesn't mean I agree with your edgy /pol/ racism.
>>64809485
you're being baited, why the fuck are you replying seriously?
>>64809550
THIS IS BAIT
THIS ENTIRE THREAD IS BAIT
STOP REPLYING
>>64809539
I don't know.
help me please
>>64809485
>Azelia Banks
She's a troll, citing her is like citing a random Anon here.
>>64809524
No, you just agree with racist power structures.
s.m.h.
>>64809550
>The replies literally reek of whiteness. but at least someone is brave enough to stand up against it.
>Whiteness
>Implying skin colour has any affect on one's political opinion.
You know there are such things as black Trump supporters right? Do me a favour, read up on individualism and classical liberalism, maybe you'll come back and be a bit less retarded.
>>64807746
>muh oppression
What the fuck are SJWs doing on muh 4chins? Get them out of here!
>>64807584
>>64807594
>>64807626
>>64807650
>>64807746
>>64807933
>>64807966
>>64808097
>>64808176
>>64808284
>>64808369
>>64808631
>>64808843
>>64809127
>>64809384
Excellent posts and thread, girl.
The replies literally reek of whiteness. but at least someone is brave enough to stand up against it.
>>64807584
Why are you black ?
>>64809642
>Because blasting Zayn, calling him a punjabi and his mother a dirty refugee is being a troll.
She's a racist homophobe, she is cancer using the guise of being black to convey her racist comments freely.
>>64808097
Look. What is your definition of bigot then? Because it's been used in a billion contexts and not just white toward black people.
>>64809834
Prejudice + Power/Privilege
>>64809737
All she does is hang out with gay white dudes. She isn't racist or homophobic at all. You're just not used to being triggered by non-white females.
>>64809539
Man, I hope it's bait.
>>64809018
Sooper impressed. How long have you been an enlightened adult?
>>64807584
You just haven't truly lived until you heard The Beatles cover such songs as Roll Over, Beethoven, Kansas City, Long Tall Sally, What'd I Say, You Really Got A Hold On Me and Wait a Minute Mr. Postman. Or perhaps you prefer the music of The Rolling Stones, who were known to get even more dangerous and edgier by covering the likes of Muddy Waters and Howlin' Wolf.
>>64809872
Bigot essentially means being intolerant towards someone because of an idea or certain set of ideas. All of /mu/ will be bigots towards each other because the other person doesn't like that music. Black people might be bigoted towards other black people for not acting as one black person thinks they should. Bigotry is about opinion, not in the vein of power in anyway. It is prejudice towards an ideology, not towards the person themselves.
Racism and bigotry only go hand in hand because racists will turn their nose up at the idea that there particularly chosen hated race should actually be treated the same way as they are. Ergo, not all bigots must be racist. Literally in the 50s and 60s, white people were having OTHER WHITE PEOPLE, neighbors and even family sentenced to prison for a difference of ideas (i.e. communism). Regardless of whether or not the fear was warranted, it does not make it less bigoted.
This has absolutely got to be bait or a troll otherwise, you need to think over this more and essential have a "final draft" idea. I am not calling you stupid by any means, but, an actual discussion with someone of matching intelligence is needed in this subject. Your argument has logical flaws in it. While you are correct in stating that races have differing cultures, a) that does not make culture incapable of mixing and preventing you from hearing The Beatles, b) many black people assume of white people's tastes before, that is to say a black guy has asked a white guy "Oh yeah, and you listen to Nirvana or some shit" as if Nirvana is exclusively "white people" music, c) by thinking white people are entirely uncreative and mediocre is just patently wrong, the punk and grunge movements were mainly white people attempting to leave elitist thinking, and, in the process inspired generations of musicians and started new genres, just as blues was an informal, arguably more expressive version of jazz
Cont.
>>64810593
d) rock music is seen as a re-skin of blues, which may be true to a certain point, but, borrowing can be derivative or creative and while some rock may rip off blues completely, it is generally more creative than it isn't derivative and, finally, e) black musicians have done what other people have already done and are already doing all the time, just like white musicians will. Being a hypocrite doesn't, in itself, make you wrong, but, it easily discredits an argument. The spitting upon of the bigotry you have seen and then immediately stomping on music made by white people ("...vocally challenged British men...", whom were not vocally challenged, as long as a voice doesn't sound terrible, it doesn't really matter if they have pipes like Freddie Mercury or Sammy Davis).
Cont.
>>64811290
You have only cited anecdotal evidence, you haven't actually got any studies behind your argument and you have only spoken about bad experiences with white people, not those with any others that may have knowledge of "black music". If a person were not able to pick out the differences between the Four Tops and The Five Satins or Otis Redding and Sam Cooke for whatever reason, it would be no more or less reprimandable than that of you not knowing the difference between the Beatles and Elton John or The Eagles or The Rolling Stones. Especially so, since you may or may not (I don't know this part, it could be taken as a question more than anything) have been just throwing out familiar names of white artists, since you at least knew The Beatles were white and decided to do a perfectly human thing and hazard a guess. And one more thing: being ignorant is absolutely no excuse for blaming any of this on white people or /mu/ (who are possibly the most bigoted people on here, even people that have the same tastes will shun another if they don't have the same favorite Radiohead album or what-the-hell-ever). If everyone only listened to music like what our parents played growing up, I'd listen to Offspring, Green Day and have terrible fucking taste in music, some others may listen to exclusively Pink Floyd and Led Zepplin, some may only listen to Bach, Pachelbel and other Classical composers. I'd blame you for not branching out to at least know of artists and know at least a little of what their music sounds like to be able to discuss them in an intelligible manner or, when brought up, ask someone to describe them more for you or actually listen through the music with them.
>>64809018
Emotions and differences of opinions are start arguments. Someone states an opinion you don't agree with and then you respond because you feel as if they are wrong, may have insulted you or made you angry in general. Arguments over opinions are entirely subjective based upon lines of logic, the lines of logic are the arguing point, ergo, arguments, unless over actual facts, which can be definitively proven, are always subjective. Emotion should be left out of an argument because it clouds effective judgement and rebuttal but, in its actual starting, is instrumental. Also. You look worse saying "I don't give a fuck about feelings" than you would saying "It pissed me the hell off". And a decent amount of time that people say something like "I don't give a fuck about feelings" they're just pissed off or are fucked up, but, not in the way they want everyone else to think and it's in a way less "cool" way than they think it is (as far as type of fucked up).
The fact that so many books still name the Beatles as "the greatest or most significant or most influential" rock band ever only tells you how far rock music still is from becoming a serious art. Jazz critics have long recognized that the greatest jazz musicians of all times are Duke Ellington and John Coltrane, who were not the most famous or richest or best sellers of their times, let alone of all times. Classical critics rank the highly controversial Beethoven over classical musicians who were highly popular in courts around Europe. Rock critics are still blinded by commercial success. The Beatles sold more than anyone else (not true, by the way), therefore they must have been the greatest. Jazz critics grow up listening to a lot of jazz music of the past, classical critics grow up listening to a lot of classical music of the past. Rock critics are often totally ignorant of the rock music of the past, they barely know the best sellers. No wonder they will think that the Beatles did anything worthy of being saved.
In a sense, the Beatles are emblematic of the status of rock criticism as a whole: too much attention paid to commercial phenomena (be it grunge or U2) and too little to the merits of real musicians. If somebody composes the most divine music but no major label picks him up and sells him around the world, a lot of rock critics will ignore him. If a major label picks up a musician who is as stereotyped as can be but launches her or him worldwide, your average critic will waste rivers of ink on her or him. This is the sad status of rock criticism: rock critics are basically publicists working for major labels, distributors and record stores. They simply highlight what product the music business wants to make money from.
>>64809649
Not even slightly, he's saying that he realizes the Beatles had influence from black artists and that black artists are influenced by The Beatles. I don't even see how that is racist. It's not like it's a lie told by a government (i.e. a power structure) to get people to like Th Beatles and no one would have batted an eye had they not listed a black influence. Not to mention, they were influenced by an Indian sitar player for sure (there are actual pictures and videos of them playing, not to mention, you can pick the influences out in their songs pretty easily), I realize perfectly well that Indians are not the same as black people, but, the point is that they weren't white supremacists.
hey what's going on in this threa-
>>64809872
fucking bullshit
even if racism had the definition "changed" by some to distinguish the difference that minorities face systemically to white people, bigotry can be held by anybody and if you're a bigot to anybody you're fucking flawed, white, brown, fucking whatever, regardless of you being serious or not I know people may think this
>Being over the age of 10 in any decade or year
>Not having heard at least one Beatles song
Consider suicide. It's literally as bizarre as being a 10 year old that has never read a book. Or a 10 year old who has never had the opportunity to eat fries.
It's that third-world.
