1) french composers>all other composers>>>>>>>>>>>>> german composers
2) intro to 20th century paved the way for crazy shit like Petrushka by Stravinsky and The Cave by Steve Reich
3) Ma mère l'Oye and 24 Preludes
>in before anything about Clair de Lune
This is also a classical/early romantic era hate thread.
Beethoven can go fuck himself
>>64712636
>Beethoven can go fuck himself
why? those piano sonatas are god tier. Much more riveting than a debussy or ravel piece piece imo
>>64712560
If German music is so bad then why was Debussy so profoundly influenced by Wagner? Hell, he was so influenced that it even over took his work at some point, and he had to recompose a part of Pelléas et Melisande because it was too similar to parts of Parsifal.
>"Incomparable and bewildering, splendid and strong. Parsifal is one of the loveliest monuments of sound ever raised to the serene glory of music."
>He was later to write to Ernest Chausson that he had deleted a scene he had just written for his own opera Pelléas et Melisande because he had discovered in the music for it 'the ghost of old Klingsor, alias R. Wagner'
>According to Pierre Louys, Debussy "did not see 'what anyone can do beyond Tristan.'"
>Debussy, like many young musicians of the time, responded positively to Richard Wagner's sensuousness, mastery of form, and striking harmonies.
One of Stravinsky's favorite composers and influences was Bach. He was also so influenced by Schoenberg that he started conforming to the twelve tone technique.
Reich also loved Bach and cited him as one of his biggest influences.
Your heroes can see how great German music is, why can't you?
>>64712560
i thought you said you were leaving after you got BTFO'd in that Chopin argument.
welcome back~
>tfw there will never ever be anything as perfect as Beethoven's Missa Solemnis ever again
>>64712560
I am a follower of Baroque to the latest outrage.
Why do lovers of great Western Art music need to fight over who is better?
What objective test could we submit these works
to?
Debussy and Beethoven are Titans.
Ravel is a giant.
Just listen to the performers you like, and experience bliss and refreshment.
>>64712821
i dont like even like german romantic music but you're right and OP is a fucking dumbass
>>64712938
honestly, i dont mind this kind of autism because it sparks discussion at least and sometimes it can spark good discussion.
>>64712926
Brahms' Requiem tho
>dat sensitivity
>dat intimacy
>those verses
>>64713010
As far as subtlety and intimacy goes for funeral music, nothing can really exceed Morley's Funeral Sentences.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Aus9GuarONw
>>64713057
Kind of reminds me of Schutz, this is pretty nice.
>>64713111
Even with Schutz's funeral music, there is this bewildering variety of texture and harmony. Morley's sentences are rooted as firmly in G minor as possible, and chordal throughout apart from the final verse, choral music really doesn't come simpler than this. Yet it's extraordinarily effective for its purpose, and the simplicity really brings the text and the words to the forefront in a way that is not possible for more complex music. This is reinforced in the last verse when he suddenly suspends the homophony and moves to this complex staggering of entries, where all the voices do not come together until the very end. And my God that final "Amen", where you have the picardy third coming in which cuts like a knife through flesh as it clashes with the flattened sixth in the tenor. When it is finally released into the G major chord it is as if you can feel the soul crossing the boundary into heaven. Just for the existence of this verse along I would place Morley's setting above Purcell's more mannerist approach.
>>64712938
Ravel > Debussy
prove me wrong
Thoughts on this? Looking for a first Ring and this is one that most Amazon reviewers seem to worship.
>>64712560
>>64712636
While French modernism is some of my favourite music, I really don't agree with your dismissal of German composers, especially Beethoven.
For a start, if we're talking Germanic synphonies, there was a rough divide between progressives and conservatives and it's silly to lump them both in the same category to be dismissed.
Also, Beethoven is one of the top three greatest composers purely on the merit of his synphonies and late chamber music alone. The man is virtually unmatched in managing to create so much music from such little starting material. And wonderful, powerful music at that!
wew, i forgot how much i liked Ravel's quartet. that third movement is just great.
>>64713294
worth hearing but not for your first listen. watch the Boulez/Chereau (fast) production or Levine/Schenk (slow, but traditional aesthetics).
in terms of purely aesthetics i prefer the traditional approach, but Boulez conducts it better so it is really up to you. quality of singing is more or less the same between the sets, though Salminen's Hagen is GOAT.
>>64712560
>>64712636
Poly, samefagging won't save you.
>>64712560
nice wikipedia based musical culture anon but impressionism in music doesn't mean nothing. i can refer to the second half/late 1800 early 1900 as decadentist, and it could be as well a properly defintion.
Ravel is also considered one of the most important neo-classical composer.
>>64712938
ahhaha dude, you blame people's charts and ranking by doing as well ranking and charts by your own
>>64713502
neither of those are me. You guys clearly dont know me if you think they are. I've always loved Beethoven, and wouldn't really call Steve Reich "crazy shit"
My roots are in Bach and Brahms, and OP seems to think pretty lowly of German composers for some reason. Its probably just friendly trolling to get "discussion" rolling.
WIP fugue exposition from today
https://clyp.it/3sedjfft
Classical Era was the high point of music, period. Mozart's Haydn quartets have remained unmatched since they were written.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ISBNqJZVrXM
>>64713904
Your image is more interesting than all of Mozart's music combined.
Debussy is awful. He's like the Coldplay of classical.
Ravel and Erik Satie i.e. were so much better than him, but obviously they made music way ahead of their time, unlike Plebusuy.
>>64714585
Satie is baby tier to Debussy though.
Any composer who sight read Le Sacre in a four hands piano arrangement with Stravinsky is ok by me
>>64714585
Debussy wrote music waaayyy ahead of his time.
Find any piece written at the same time as Prelude to the Afternoon of a faun.
Find a string quartet written at the same time as Debussy.
Find a set of preludes as distinctive as Debussy's 24.
Find a piece as colorful as La Mer.
Find a comparable work from the same time as the above; compare and contrast.
You won't.
Ravel was an excellent composer, but he didn't create as drastically as Debussy.
What kind of comparison is Coldplay to Debussy?
Debussy is far above some pop band.
>>64713904
Explain why.
>>64712560
Nobody has posted the links yet?
https://mega.co.nz/#F!mMYGhBgY!Ee_a6DJvLJRGej-9GBqi0A
https://mega.co.nz/#F!lIh3GRpY!piUs-QdhZACFt2hGtX39Rw
https://mega.co.nz/#F!Y8pXlJ7L!RzSeyGemu6QdvYzlfKs67w
https://mega.co.nz/#F!kMpkFSzL!diCUavpSn9B-pr-MfKnKdA
https://mega.nz/#F!ekBFiCLD!spgz8Ij5G0SRH2JjXpnjLg
https://mega.co.nz/#F!4EVlnJrB!PRjPFC0vB2UT1vrBHAlHlw
https://mega.co.nz/#F!ygImCRjS!1C9L77tCcZGQRF6UVXa-dA
https://mega.co.nz/#F!il5yBShJ!WPT0v8GwCAFdOaTYOLDA1g
https://mega.co.nz/#F!DdJWUBBK!BeGdGaiAqdLy9SBZjCHjCw
http://crudblud.sjm.so/
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qZ72SUYiQUY
i love this piece to bits and i think glazunov's solo piano music is underrated as fuck, recommend me something similar pls
Imagine liking this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6s0Mp7LFI-k
(Posting the smalin video because I want to contribute to the trivialization of Beethoven.)
A ceaseless discharge of diarrhea. It even mimics the spasms of the anal sphincter and the convoluted interplay of intermittent spurts of liquid feces with the occasional chunks of solid feces so common in most bouts of diarrhea. Literally Scheiße Fuge. Stupendously amusical - to such a degree that one would have to do a double take and seriously entertain the idea that Beethoven was mocking the common listener, the academic, his fellow composers, and perhaps all of music when he wrote this. The curious thing is that the same thing can be said about all of his music once you've opened that door.
Granted that would've required him to posses at least an iota of self-awareness and a hefty amount of sensuousness for the sound of music, something no German has ever possessed.
>>64717277
>I have listened to a handful of Beethoven's most renowned works therefore I can criticize the entirety of his work.
Try again.
>>64717277
You sound upset.
>>64717277
dont forget he was mostly deaf when he wrote this. its mostly a "fuck you" to all fugues out there. He's trolling you from 200 years ago.
If you want beethoven that sounds pleasant, listen to his early piano sonatas, particularly the slow movements. Very beautiful and sensitive writing. A composer with 3 distinct periods.
>>64717466
His less renowned works are even worse. String quartet nr. 14 doesn't even have the diarrheic thing going for it. It's just a hodgepodge of individual notes, so consistently ugly and pointless it could've been made by Frank Zappa or Captain Memeheart.
>>64717572
deafness is a bitch
>>64717572
You don't even know what the fuck you're talking about.
Beethoven called String Quartet 14 "his most perfect work". You think that isn't renowned? It's also from the same period of the Grosse Fugue.
>I have listened to a handful of Beethoven's most renowned works therefore I can criticize the entirety of his work.
Try again.
Also just because YOU don't understand it doesn't mean it's bad.
>>64717631
What is there to understand?
>>64717652
A lot. You are probably so illiterate regarding music theory that you are probably not even able to read the sheets to "Happy Birthday" I don't even expect you to begin understanding the beauty of Beethoven's late works.
>>64717697
What is there to understand beyond how (terrible) it sounds?
>>64712560
>french composers>all other composers>>>>>>>>>>>>> german composers
>french
>above anything
b8ing this fucking hard is health hazard
Posting Rare debussys
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p24uQUj0cnE
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Hcc1Bj40UA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rDdlZykWjlY
Also, Etudes>Preludes
>>64714985
CLT's Debussy alarm went off again now he's trying to bait
>>64718373
Could you please use English instead of "hip" lingo?
I do not post bait, I honestly feel that Debussy was a greater composer than Ravel.
Why do people ITT fall for the baits so easily?
Have you ever noticed that whenever someone says the soundscapes in Beethoven's symphonies are fucking appalling - screeching, muddy, abrasive - is a roll of the dice between:
>Beethoven's INCENDIARY musical decisions should be hailed as pioneering examples of the UNBRIDLED expression of the human spirit
>But period instruments weren't nearly as loud my friend XD!!11
Fuck, I hate Ludwigoloids.
This is the worst /classical/ I've seen in months
>>64721258
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4C3TIr2bBo0
The worst Classical I've heard in my life. I wish I was memeing.
>>64721276
For (You)
>>64721258
I agree. I want the anti-Beethoven memers out.
If you wanna listen to egomaniacal formalism at least listen to something that doesn't sound like monkeys wallowing in a cloaca:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=phygv_Et9sQ
What should I check out if I really like Ravel's piano works, especially the mentioned Ma mere l'Oye? I'm pretty new to /classical/ music.
I've only listened to some Debussy, Satie, Chopin, most of Shostakovich and a bunch of other very known composers.
>>64721461
>>64716694
Holy fuck, thank you.
comfy summer opera?
>>64721461
Check out some Spanish piano music, like Granados and Albeniz, and DEFINITELY Messiaen's piano works.
Also, if you haven't already, listen to Pogorelich's recording of Gaspard de la Nuit.
>>64721486
Why are you recommending Mozart when anon says they like Ravel?
>>64722039
Have this divine vocal music instead:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mrcgDhpS3uo
Opera = poopoo in the mouth hole.
>tfw there are no great recordings of Bach's B-minor mass
Reminder that Mozart is underrated.
>>64713282
there's a difference between the two
ravel is like a painter that makes technically perfect paintings that are still beautiful and satisfy all parameters of form and function
debussy was like a fucking brilliant and groundbreaking artist who changed the way people look at paintings
both are great in different ways
>>64718349
here's a relentlessly charming and underperformed ballet he wrote for children called 'boite a joujoux' https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5KGLWP9imGw
>>64722952
and he was black
https://www.youtube.com/watch?list=PLvNAgJI3kNIh8X20SlVziA81OdF8w69QI&v=AZo9ng8h4yQ
>mfw german composers would pee their pantaloons like twee schoolgirls if they heard this
Germany is a waste.
>>64722545
>>64722393
Bad opinion
I listened to a lot of stuff but I still put Dvorak's New World Symphony in my top 3 favorite pieces
Help am I a pleb
>>64725409
Listen to his 7th, it's better
More like this?
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=oFFYZhW1LQE
>>64717277
>Imagine not liking this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cd9rg9v25bo
>>64725409
You're not a pleb. His 9th is great.
>>64725850
No it isn't.
Just came to this general for the first time.
Is it always like this?
>>64725409
If it's the one directed by Ferenc Fricsay you're alright
Mozart achieved formal mastery without sacrificing the melodic line. The way he makes a deeply structured piece sound truly spontaneous is remarkable. Each melodic/motivic idea is presented in a neat, elegant package and when it has run its course, Mozart has already started upon the next one almost as if he's had a sudden change of mood. In reality each is a structural piece in a formal package.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wXhm-C_mb_k
>>64726843
>mentioning the word 'formal' when anti-formalist memer is on the loose.
Uh oh
>>64713265
I love how you write.
>>64726489
Filled with bait? Yeah. Sometimes.
Thoughts?
I didn't go to classical music school, I went to recitals
