Hello thread - next weeks theme will be "European releases from 2016" - almost done, sending it today...

Just got done with my listening, so here we go:

Pair 1:

So this was St. Thomas made famous by Sonny Rollins, based on some folk melody, I believe

I have to say I didn't get it from the first one on the first listen until they really got into the melody at almost 3 minutes in - from the first notes I was first thinking this is more something like Ayler's Ghosts. On the second listen he was hinting at St Thomas pretty clearly, though.

The solo sax intro was mighty long, but after the band came in it turned out to be a really good time. Certainly something that would be fun to see live - good jazz entertainment. Probably not a track I'd be interested in listening to all too often in recorded form since it's so long.

The second one was maybe a little too subdued - that was almost a Pat Metheny -level of dullness in the guitar sound. I was of thinking of Niels-Henning Orsted Pedersen on bass maybe, I know he recorded some versions of this song and in general this made me think of his duets with Joe Pass, although guitarist clearly isn't Pass.

It's OK, but I prefer track 1 (especially if you a couple of minutes from the intro).

Pair 2:

Two heartbreaking, beautiful renditions of I Get Along Without You Very Well

First one I hadn't heard before, but I think that has to be Nina Simone, second one is from Chet Baker Sings.

Both are excellent, but I think it fits Nina's wearier voice better.

Pair 3:

St. Louis Blues - one of the very earliest popular songs in the jazz canon, I guess

No idea who the first people are - I like how the singer and brass have a very similar attitude.

Certainly something old enough that it's hard to get over the "I'm listening to old time jazz"-feeling and really appreciate the music.

The second one with those latin rhythm and that strong piercing trumpet sound probably has to be Dizzy Gillespie.

Man, that's some impressive trumpet - it's like from another planet or something.

Pair 4:

This one is Cherokee, loved by people who love playing at ridiculous tempos

The first one is interesting to me - my very favorite version of Cherokee is the Clifford Brown/Max Roach one from A Study in Brown. Now this isn't it, but with Brown on my mind that could be him on trumpet - it's great playing whoever it is.

The second one is my least favorite track from Kamasi Washington's The Epic by a pretty wide margin. I have no idea why that track was made and there are few redeeming qualities about it. I don't mind The Epic as a modern day spiritual jazz album, but when it dips into more r&b/modern fusion sounds it just falls flat and I think this is the albums low point.

Pari 5:

There are certainly many versions of Summertime to choose from.

The first one just feels a bit too brief and a bit too sweet - has a "here's a nice orchestra with strings and all playing this popular song" feel to it. Some west coast character on sax?

The second one is more intriguing. It's interesting that the bass player isn't afraid of doing some outside playing, but he also appears to do perfectly beautiful arco bass. The contrast in the bass alone makes this track a lot better for a 11+ minute slow bass/drums duet.

I was thinking of relatively recent bass-drums pairings with an avant-edge to them like Henry Grimes with Rashied Ali or William Parker with Hamid Drake, but this bassist seems more elegant and restrained than those fellows.

Sounds like a fairly recent recording - I'd say this century. The bass player plays some familiar licks that remind me of something in the 60's, so maybe it's someone with a long career like Reggie Workman or something.

The track is so long and slowly evolving that I don't see listening to it very often, but I'm certainly interested in who the players are.

>>64630723
Sounds like we agree on a lot of these.

1. Is this going to be eleven minutes of solo saxophone? The saxophonist is amazing but I don’t know how I feel about 11 minutes worth. I don’t think I recognize this tune either. It’s pretty good stuff but it gets repetitive, he could move onto some different ideas. It sounds pretty modern so I’ll guess Chris Potter. Oh once the band comes in I recognize the song but I don’t know the name of it. The piano solo was really great and then the sax solo after it was pretty good too. This one was pretty good but I think the solo section at the beginning could have been shorter. 3.5 stars.
2. Same tune here but with a lot different instrumentation. Guitar and bass. It’s pretty good for a duet. I like the interaction between the two and how the bass player gets busier and busier as he goes along. I don’t know that many guitarists but I’d guess it’s either Joe Pass or Jim Hall maybe. 3.5 stars.
3. This one is kind of weird. I couldn’t tell if it was a man or a woman singing at first. I think it might be Nina Simone though. I don’t really have very much else to say about this one. 3 stars.
4. It’s Chet Baker’s version of that song. I don’t really like the tinkly sounds at the beginning of this one but I like it better when the whole band comes in. It needed a solo or something though. 2.5 stars.
5. This is something pretty old I’d say. It’s like very early blues. It could be Ellington’s band with some singer but I’m not really very familiar with this early stuff. It’s not bad or anything but I’d much rather listen to later jazz. 2.5 stars.

>>64630835
6. The trumpet sound stands out here the most to me. Just based on how crazy the trumpet playing is I think this is probably Dizzy Gillespie. It’s pretty nice and obviously the trumpet solo is the highlight here. 3.5 stars.
7. This is a very familiar song but I can’t quite think of the name. The trumpet is the star of the show here too. It sounds a little bit like Lee Morgan. This is probably my favorite of the week so far. None of the other players really stand out here but I’d listen to this one just for that great trumpet playing. 4 stars.
8. Oh now I remember the name of course. It’s Cherokee. So the last track was maybe Clifford Brown? I associate him with that song. This is the version from The Epic and I think it’s a good example of the faults of that album. It’s very overproduced and it ends up sounding more like a pop or soul album on tracks like this. That and all of the soloists seemed to be just using up their solo time instead of trying to make it count for something. But maybe I’m being overly critical since I actually know what this one is. 2 stars.
9. This sounds more like a tenor sax to me but I think maybe it’s Charlie Parker from one of the things he did with strings. I know this tune too! It’s Summertime. It’s a pretty good version but maybe not Charlie Parker’s best playing. The longer it goes, the less I’m sure that it is Parker and not somebody earlier. 3.5 stars.
10. Summertime again but with bowed bass this time. I liked the effect of the bass and drums together but as it went on this one got boring pretty fast. Maybe this one takes some re-listening to get into but I didn’t really hear anything that would make me want to listen to it again. 2 stars.

bump. finishing writing mine now

bumpin' with another version of one of these tunes, so avoid if you're avoiding spoilers

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZK0caXgQvZ4

>>64630010
>although guitarist clearly isn't Pass.
What makes you think that?

Hey y'all. I'll probs be around later tonight replying to a few people. Looking forward to reading everyone's thoughts!

>>64632387
now it of course turns out to be him, but I think Pass usually plays those really nimble runs that I'd expect to hear here but this guitarist is more content just strumming chords which I don't recall Pass doing that much - it just seems to be missing that style playing I personally associate Pass with

now that you mentioned Jim Hall - he is someone I could totally see it being

>Track 1
I’m not sure I know this tune. The solo sax doing the tune as a sort of solo duet with an implied basso continuo reminds me a lot of Chris Potter’s way of playing solo tunes. This definitely isn’t his tone though. Although he comes close to it on a few of the more boppy interjections between the bassline. Also it’s bugging me that the implied bassline doesn’t quite line up with what he’s playing unless he’s intentionally dropping some beats in there. Oh there’s St. Thomas, I thought I was hearing bits of some standard in there. It’s somebody with a pretty modern sound, obviously inspired by Mike Brecker. The tone reminds me a little of Mark Turner but I’ve never heard him play anything this outgoing. Oh and it turns out there is a whole band. The band has a lot of energy but they’re not playing together really that well. Pianist reminds me a little of Kenny Kirkland actually by the time they get into the swing in his solo the band sounds pretty great. Jeff Watts on drums? Or maybe Tony Reedus? Sax player could be Walt Weiskopf or Joshua Redman maybe? A 90’s recording? Anyway the sax player is good but not my favorite. There are other tenor players I’d rather hear doing this kind of thing. Overall this track had some cool stuff but there were some little things that didn’t work that well.

>Track 2
Obviously St. Thomas again. So with a guitar/bass duet my first thought is Jim Hall/Ron Carter. This seems like the kind of tune they’d do too thought I don’t remember hearing this exact one. Sounds quite a bit like Jim Hall. Actually some of the strumming the guitarist gets into there around 1:30 reminds me of Philip Catherine. It’s kind of interesting how they just kind of play around with rhythm for a while instead of anyone “soloing” there and how it gradually gets farther away from their original patterns and sort of turns into a bass solo. Pretty nice. I’d bet it’s Hall/Carter.

>>64632986
>Track 3
Well I’m not sure who this is but I’m betting that the next version of this tune will be Chet Baker’s. Oh that vibrato is strange. Bob Dorough maybe? Haven’t listened to him much but his voice has this sort of nasally quality. This guy’s isn’t quite that though. It’s pretty emotive but I’d like to hear more variation in the arrangement and singing too. What a great lyric though.

>Track 4
Yeah I called it in the last one. I never really noticed it before but this one is a pretty good example of his singing. He gives it just a tiny bit of vibrato and sounds very pure on the high notes. Pretty good arrangement too, even the music box at the beginning. It’s so short that I don’t really need the variation like I wanted in the first previous track. As I said before, I really like the lyrics to this tune. Chet Baker had a knack for picking good lyrics for his vocal tunes.

>>64633009
>Track 5
St. Louis Blues. I don’t know whose version this is though. Reminds me a little bit of the Hot Sevens. But that wasn’t Armstrong playing trumpet. And it’s maybe a bigger orchestra. I was never really a huge fan of this style of singing. It reminds me of the iconic Bessie Smith version but it’s not that same one that I’ve heard. Maybe it’s her on a little bit later recording.

>Track 6
Sounds like Dizzy sticking out there on top? This is a cool arrangement but I think the band needs a little more rehearsal with it. They sound pretty sloppy in some places. Yeah definitely Dizzy. Man his breath support must have been insane. Even with the not-so-great recording you can tell that his sound is just HUGE. Dizzy’s solo was pretty good but I think this track could have been much better if the band had been more solid with the chart.

>>64633032
>Track 7
Cherokee. This is Clifford Brown but not the version of Cherokee that everybody knows. Well I think the tempo is a little lower here and his solo is better on that other version from Study in Brown. It doesn’t really sound like Max Roach on drums but maybe that’s because I think he played pretty much the same thing for his first three drum breaks in the trading fours. Clifford Brown is playing some sick shit in the fours though. So not as good as the famous recording but this was still a pretty great track.

>Track 8
Kamasi’s version? So I’ll give him some credit, he added this little vamp section with a laid-back funk feel and that’s not a bad idea but I really dislike this singing. So sugary sweet. This arrangement really feels kind of like a parody of 70’s lounge-jazz. Oh and the start to the sax solo… It sounds like the sax solos on a Billy Joel record. I remember liking some of the trombone solos on this record but this one is not good. It sounds like he’s pushing against the time which could be good if the rhythm section picks up on it but they’re very stuck in their groove. Piano solo doesn’t really get a passing grade either. Honestly I think I could do a better 8 bar piano solo. And none of the solos were long enough to develop into anything anyway. Well anyway this was a creative arrangement of a standard and the groove is there but there’s not really much point to the solos and I think this vocal style is kind of outdated. It’s basically a pop version of a jazz standard, which isn’t always bad but I can’t say this one is very good.

>>64633054
>9
Summertime. Bird with strings. I can appreciate a good string arrangement. The main problem is that they never really have the same level of interplay as a small group, though the soloist can play off of the arrangement. Bird never really lets loose on this one though. It might be a good solo to transcribe for that reason but really this sounds pretty influenced by swing players and he’s mostly sticking to variations on the melody. You can definitely hear the Johnny Hodges influence here.

>10
Bass? Cello? I’m not sure. I was leaning toward cello because some of the bowed section gets pretty high but once the pizzicato section comes in it’s obviously bass. A few things he does remind me of Dave Holland. Could be him I guess. This one doesn’t really do much for me though. It’s pretty much just the melody of Summertime with some very abstracted soloing that never really changes very much dynamically for how long it goes on.

>>64633084
Some overall thoughts:

I was hoping for a little more contrast between the versions. I guess most of them were pretty different but I think I was hoping for some cool reharmonizations and things like that where you almost wouldn't catch the original tune if you weren't paying attention or didn't know what it was going to be.

This is a cool theme idea though. I might have to re-do this theme sometime in the future.

>>64632582
Yeah that makes sense. Some of the rhythms he was doing made me think of Joe Pass.

>>64632986
Sounds like JTG is pretty sure that it's Jim Hall.

>>64633009
Ah so apparently track 3 is a woman singing... Is there pitch shifting on that one?

>>64633240
Joe Pass might have recorded some duets with Ray Brown. I'm fairly certain it's not Ray Brown on bass on this track though. I had a friend who was pretty into the Jim Hall/Ron Carter duet recordings though so I've listened to a fair amount of that.

I've heard Blue Train, A Love Supreme, My Favorite Things and Giant Steps by Coltrane.

WHERE TO NEXT LADS? My favorite is A Love Supreme for reference, Giant Steps is my least favorite, although every single one of them are fantastic albums.

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>>64633486
Crescent and The John Coltrane Quartet Plays

>>64633486
I had a tough time with Giant Steps for a while since I was working my way backwards from fusion and avant-garde at the time, so you might want to revisit that when you're more familiar with the bebop tradition that preceded it or at least work up to it with the earlier Coltrane albums

Crescent and The John Coltrane Plays are very close to A Love Supreme, so make sure you check those out

>>64633624
so beaten and typo'ed the other one, too... :'(

>>64633486
Also you should check out some of Ralph Bowen's recordings that Orrin Evans plays on. There's a definite Coltrane quartet vibe on those.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MSFLtm_bMXs

Most of them have another instrument too like trombone or trumpet but those sax solos...

>>64633486
also since I found an early pressing of Alice Coltrane's Ptah, the El Daoud in the local record store, I'll give that a shout out as well

>>64632986
>>64629644
I think the first one's Joshua Redman. Sounds like him and he does the same silly overly long intro thing here
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6X4rkhvvfwc

>general note on track one
I figured the length of this one would turn people off. I think there's parts he could have cut out of the intro which would have improved the piece but ultimately, I think it's really cool.
I have context for the rest of this album and I've listened to this performance a few times but I'm kinda surprised nobody thought the sax player was being jocular with some of the stuff he was playing. I suppose I have a bit of context for the way he plays on the rest of this album (among other things, he has a fondness for early-mid 60s Coltrane) but I almost saw his performance as a comedic routine. It's almost like he's playing this silly, overexcitable character. I thought the way he's playing around with timbre and the sharp awkward rhythmic phrasing was pretty funny, around 4:15 onwards is particularly good imo. The way he just barely squeaks up to the high note before launching into the melody without all the off the wall excursions he was going on is brilliant.
>>64630010
> Pat Metheny -level of dullness in the guitar sound
Controversial. We'll leave the Pat Metheny discussion for another day but what do you mean by the guitar sound? Like the tone?
>Some west coast character on sax?
Far from it actually. I can see the comparison on this sort of a recording but it's certainly not a scene this guy is normally associated with.
>The track is so long and slowly evolving that I don't see listening to it very often
I get this. It's a beautiful performances and from one of my favourite jazz albums but this track isn't really ideal for a casual listen.

>>64636724
yeah, I was mostly referring to the feel of that "tone control at 0" sound that Metheny often uses more than the enjoyability of it

>>64630835
>This one is kind of weird
It's a damn weird album in general. Weirdest she ever did, this isn't even the height of it. Beautifully emotive record though. I love it to pieces.
> It needed a solo or something though
I actually don't like a lot of the soloing on that Chet Baker record. Chet has had some wonderful trumpet solos throughout his career but his voice well carried that record imo. Although the pianist has some brilliant moments as an accompanist.
>track 10
I wouldn't let that turn you off the album it comes off. That track is the least accessible thing on it and it's a standout record in this guy's discog. Which is a pretty big statement to make taking his career as a sideman into account.

how do you even get to the point of being able to recognize jazz players? Are most of you jazz musicians?

>>64633009
>chet
I was considering Frank's lovely version from In the Wee Small hours. It'd have been less well known but Chet makes me feel feels.
>>64633032
>Bessie Smith
A very manly Bessie Smith. You're more on game with the instrumentalists this week. >>64633284
There's no pitch shifting lel.
>This is a cool arrangement but I think the band needs a little more rehearsal with it. They sound pretty sloppy in some places
Anywhere in particular you think it's really evident? I mean, there's bits where there are multiple melodies going on at the same time and then a soloist where it sounds a little asynchronous but I thought that was on purpose. Especially with the crescendos, it makes the piece feel a bit more freewheeling.
>not as good as the famous recording but this was still a pretty great track
Agreed. I thought it was probably more worth sharing than the Study in Brown version though and besides, I already had a bunch of other tracks I knew people would know.
>I remember liking some of the trombone solos on this record but this one is not good.
Really? The horns were one of my least favourite things about that album. I mean, you listen to Kamasi on that track and he's playing pretty cheesy stuff but at least it's melodic and somewhat coherent. There isn't a memorable line in that trombone solo.
>>64633084
>dynamics on track ten
I think for a duo they don't do bad for themselves. They could have built in a crescendo or two but I kinda like the nervous energy it moves along with. Pretty unsettling version for what's supposed to be a lullaby.
>I was hoping for some cool reharmonizations and things like that where you almost wouldn't catch the original tune if you weren't paying attention or didn't know what it was going to be
Fair point. I look forward to the Orinn Evans plug on yours so ;)

>>64636826
I suppose he's not much that sort of player but not a lot of jazz guitarists are. There's oddballs like Friesel who make a big deal out of tone but I think it was probably enough for this guy that it suited the bass.
The guitar on this one more shines for the interplay and the absolute mastery of chords the guy has. I'd kill to be able to play like that.

>>64637352
Some of us are but if you're listening to this stuff enough, it just kinda comes. Doing blindfold threads helps a lot aswell. You become a lot more aware of the nuances of different players styles when you spend a bit of time trying to identify people blind.
I remember pretty early on in these threads realising the ridiculous pervasiveness of Monk's style of playing which isn't really something I think I'd have noticed by myself without this sort of format.

>>64636682
Ah, I didn't realize this was a Joshua Redman thing. I wonder if Chris Potter stole the idea from him, or if other players had done this same kind of thing before that. Chris does it best anyway.

>>64637405
>A very manly Bessie Smith.
>There's no pitch shifting lel.
Well.. there are only about 10 jazz singers I think I can always recognize and after that it's pretty much a guess. Apparently I can't even recognize singers' genders.

>Fair point. I look forward to the Orinn Evans plug on yours so ;)
Well maybe I'll have to avoid Orrin Evans on that playlist, although he does have some nice deconstructions of standards. But since we're on the subject here's a nice reharm of Song for my Father.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=87fj7rKFTUY

>>64637405
>Anywhere in particular you think it's really evident?
Yeah the first spot is right at about :28 seconds when it transitions from a little sax soli into Dizzy doing syncoapted hits into the next part of the song and the time feels weird there.

Also the bit that comes in when the horns drop out right at :40. It goes into a sax solo and I don't know what the drummer and pianist are doing but it doesn't sound very good and it takes almost 10 seconds for them to settle into the swing so it feels good.

Then when it drops to just bari and congas at 1:13 they are fighting over the time for a little bit.

These are nit-picky things but you couldn't really get away with them if you were making a record today. Which is a good thing in some ways and a bad thing in some other ways. It sounds like a pretty tricky chart but I'm sure if they had just taken one more hour of rehearsal to work specifically on those transitions it would have improved the recording.

>>64637405
>Really? The horns were one of my least favourite things about that album.
Yeah, I remember the trombone being my favorite part of a few tracks, but I agree that on this track the trombone solo is pretty bad. I only gave the album one real listen and then a few of the better instrumental tracks a half-hearted re-listen so maybe the trombone isn't very good all the way through. I don't know.

>>64637352
It just comes with listening a lot. I think it's one reason that it's better to listen deep rather than wide. I'd almost guarantee that if you take 3 Wayne Shorter records and three Joe Henderson records and listen to them each 10 times (and really LISTEN to them) that you would be able to tell them apart on other records too, regardless of any knowledge of playing jazz.

Hey and while we're on the subject of Kamasi- did anybody else notice that the opening melodic line from "Seven Prayers" is exactly the same melody as John Williams' "Marion's Theme" from Indiana Jones?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ep7z3OG9rW8
(0:34)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yxCUJlM8Cuk

>>64637985
There's deffinitely a beat missed there around 28 sec. It's not very jarring but I can definitely hear it too.
I'm surprised I didn't notice how off what the drummers doing is around 40-50 sec. I mean, the piano is quite low in the mix so I get why I didn't hear it and the sax is the focus here anyway but the drummer is outright just noticeably confused for like 10 seconds.
I'm not sure I can hear much off around 1:13. Maybe one of them dragging or rushing just a bit but by the time the rest of the horns come in it sounds ironed out to me.
Definitely fair criticism though. I doubt it'd have taken much longer to work out kinks that small but it ought to have been done.

One last bump for the night
I have an exam in the morning but I'll put the reval up here or in another thread if this one dies when I can get to a computer.

>>64636936
>I wouldn't let that turn you off the album it comes off
Well I'm curious to see what it is.

>>64638230
lol. I didn't notice this. Think John Williams should sue?

I'll try to do this again next week.
In the meantime, what are good McCoy Tyner releases? (Sideman is fine)
From what I've heard
Love:
Sun Ship
My Favorite Things

Like:
The Real McCoy
Inception

>>64641463
There's still time to join in this week.

>>64641709
yeah but not for me :)
(I have an early flight tomorrow, maybe I'll download the stuff to listen on the plane but was planning on doing Complete In A Silent Way session)

>>64641463
apparently a bit more

like:
A Love Supreme
A Jazz Message
Africa/Brass
Coltrane / Hartman

recs please? :)

meh:
Ole Coltrane
Ascension

>>64641839
Sorry I've never been good at recs

>>64641463
Check out Expansions

>>64642976
Thanks, I feel that his piano seems a bit better when contrasted by sax/trumpet.

Also could you maybe explain to me what differentiates a good piano trio from a bad one for you? I like almost all trios I hear, but I seem to have a hard time getting really excited about them, because they seem a bit 'dry' (if that makes any sense at all).

>>64644069
I'm not completely sure what you mean by "dry" but for me a piano trio is all about the interaction. Since it's just the three instruments, the personalities of every player should really shine.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O8h6CuGlh4U
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bh5Dp1S-OC8
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u6Fa7Wk8LDk
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S1CTSAbrb3k

>>64644340
Thanks a lot, I will take a look at these.
I think I mostly mean that a sax or trumpet sounds more outspoken than a piano? God I'm bad at voicing my feelings, but I hope this makes more sense.

>>64644427
I think I see what you're saying... that horns can be more "expressive" than piano. They have a better range of dynamics and can do way more with tone and shaping notes than a piano can.

But then again a piano can do things a horn can't too. Really they're just expressive in different ways.

>>64644837
Yeah that's what I meant! And you're definitely right, I just seem to have a hard time loving it.
Also thanks for the Expansions rec, I'm listening now and it's exactly what I was looking for.

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>>64644893
As an added bonus the cover makes a nice reaction image as well.

For example:

>mfw I first saw the lineup on McCoy Tyner's Expansions

I found some time this week.

>1
Way too long on the intro but parts of it were pretty good. Then it’s also pretty good when the whole band comes in. I’d listen to more of this but hopefully with less solo sax.

>2
I guess I don’t know this song because I don’t recognize this version but I can tell it’s the same song. This one didn’t really do very much for me. It seemed like there was too much space where nothing much was happening.

>3
Didn’t like this one to be honest. This could have been on a rock album or a soul album or anything. I didn’t really like the singer’s voice and the piano seemed very generic.

>4
Same with this one. I think this is Chet Baker which I’ve never been very much of a fan of. I don’t mind his trumpet playing sometimes but I don’t really care for his singing.

>5
This is so old that it’s hard for me to enjoy. I realize that it’s important to the history of jazz but I don’t really get anything out of listening to it.

>6
This wasn’t bad. It was frantic and crazy and the trumpet player was awesome. I think it’s Dizzy Gillespie because he’s the only one who can play trumpet like that.

>7
This was ok too but after the last track it falls a little bit short. Normally I’d probably like this trumpet player but after the last one it’s not that impressive.

>8
Sounds like a terrible soul/jazz fusion. I couldn’t find anything to like about this one.

>9
I’ve never found a “jazz with strings” album that I enjoyed. It just doesn’t really sound like jazz to me.

>10
I couldn’t really get into this one either. Some of the bass playing was cool but to me it didn’t sound like the drummer was listening to him. I’ll be the first to admit that sometimes I miss that stuff so maybe that’s the case here.

So. Not my favorite week.

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>>64644970
It really is. My fav is Miles Smiles tho.

>>64645664
>So. Not my favorite week.

I guess not. It sounds like most of us disliked some of these tracks too though.

1. I recognized the tune pretty quickly, but I didn't like how long the intro was. The piano solo was nice and I dug some of the rhythms the piano and drums were getting at.

2. Kinda dull didn't really care for this one.

3. I liked how it sounded more like one song rather than intro, chorus 1, chorus 2, ect. The singer has an interesting range to her voice, but I like it. She really brings out the emotion of the lyrics.

4. I like this album and version a lot. Chet also has a pretty unique sound/range to his voice, but I'm pretty use to it. Really nice ending to it.

5. I don't recognize this tune. Sound pretty traditional maybe a Duke tune? If it is I didn't know he worked with this singer.

6. This sounds like maybe late 50's or so. Possibly Mingus? I like the backgrounds. Oh and that sounds like Dizzy so maybe it's one of his big bands.

7. Here we go with Cherokee. I like the solo over the head it's some nice variety. Not sure who the trumpet player is. Maybe Clifford Brown or Booker Little based on when it sounds like it was recorded from.

8. So this is the Kamasi version. When I first heard this version it reminded me this tune has lyrics. The lyrics are pretty meh though and the version is kinda cheesy. Kinda like everything I don't like about Snarky Puppy.

9. Summertime and probably from Bird with Strings, but I've never listened to that album. It's definitely bird though. It's a lush arrangement, but I'd rather just hear bird with a rhythm section.

10. I might have missed that this was summertime if I heard it first. No idea who is playing though. Not a real fan of this style though.

>>64648122
Glad you could join in this week. Seems like still nobody has been a fan of the Kamasi track. Hope you come back in future weeks. We always need more folks to put together playlists too if you're interested.

>>64645664
You should consider making a playlist some week too. Seems like you're usually pretty critical so I'd be interested to see what you'd put on it.

>>64648264
Ya well I'm almost done with this semester so I might be able to actually post over the summer.

>>64648329
Sounds good

morning bump

there is a nice duet version of Cherokee with Chris Potter and Pat Metheny on Metheny's new The Unity Sessions album:
https://open.spotify.com/track/0lfRxuYoztC7Kx5oLPxs0K

also should have at least guessed that the first Summertime was Parker with Strings

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bumping for later.
Another great version of Summertime:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jgmEY41baKM&ab_channel=Gynmusic


In a coffee shop considering dropping out of college to become a jazz musician atm.
There's less calculus.

>>64650631
I wouldn't recommend it

>Track 1
So it took me a while to place it but I recognised this from the first two notes as being fragments of

the opening to Sonny's first solo in St. Thomas. That's the sign of an iconic solo right there. This is a

nice example of a deconstructed melody - just enough to hang on to and no more. The way it builds up to

the head melody reminds me of a version of Oleo I've heard by Joe Harriot, but this does a better job of

it. If it wasn't for the squeaks and squarks I'd say this was Sonny himself - same sense of playfulness

with rhythm, thouh I guess that's something this tune demands.

Once the band kicks in they play with so much joy it's impossible not to get caught up in it. Piano solo

has a good stab at playing with the rhythm of the main melody in his second chorus, and aside from that

he's got some pretty angular Monkian melodic ideas going on. I like the way the drummer reacts as he

builds up the density of his playing, and the way he ends on block chords. Feels like he earnt it.

Second sax solo comes in with -another- interpetation of Sonny's, and a cool one. Drummer is tight too.

There's such a strong sence of bounciness all through. This track was pretty much 10/10 for me.

>>64652100
Ugh, sorry about the ugly formatting after I pasted this
>Track 2
Recognised this one and then sort of cheated to get that it it was the version from Alone Together by Jim Hall and Ron Carter, which actually I've only heard once before (think I'd have worked it out anyway once I realised it was just a duo). I don't know if it's the presence of guitar but this one seems to really bring the calypso elements to the fore. Like the little lick he plays in place of the first bar of the melody the second time through, and there are plenty more where that came from. The chord melody that starts around 1:10 is a great development of this.

To be honest I'd be happier if this track ended after Jim's solo. Ron's doesn't add much or do anything interesting, and since it changes the tone of the piece from a little calypso ditty I think it does more harm than good.

>Tracks 1 and 2
For what it's worth I suppose I preferred the first, as it was rad from start to finish, but each version explored different aspects of the original and both did it really well.

>>64652117
>Track 3
My only exposure to this song before is from Chet Baker, and I think his version captures the irony of the lyrics, and the change around verse three, so much better than this one. A lot of these old pop tunes have such trite lyrics, but this is an exception, so it's a shame to hear it sung so mechanically. This singer has very good vocal control and adds some nice twists on the melody, but it sounds a bit forced - in part because of the unnecessarily slow tempo. There's also the wavering on the long notes, which I think must be international, but is very off-putting.

>Track 4
Speak of the devil; here's Chet. On every song on this album (even the trite ones) it sounds like he's really got inside the lyrics and lived them. That's what makes him a great singer despite being frankly a bit of a mediocre vocalist. The other main thing I notice about this version, after the last one, is how sparse it is. And that's comparing it to a recording just piano and vocals.

I looked it up and the twangy sound is a celeste - I hadn't noticed that before, thanks Blindfold Test.

>Tracks 3 and 4
Well obviously I prefer Chet. Even though it's only a duo, the first one sounds too orchestral and I don't care for the singer.

>>64652129
>Track 5
Well I have no idea what this is but I like it. Sounds a lot like the Hot Five/Seven at first, but then I don't think that's Satch on the horn, and it's obviously not his voice. The long held note the singer starts with is pretty impressive. His fast scat singing also, and it makes this tune a lot of fun. If I ever do get round to listening to more New Orleans stuff, I want it to be like this.

>Track 6
This has to be Dizzy? I don't think this version is as fun as the other one, but his playing is great as ever.

>Tracks 5 and 6
Well as I said, the first is more fun, but both are good and I can always get down with Dizzy's big band.

>>64652145
>Track 7
Well this is Clifford Brown on Cherokee, from his New Star on the Horizon session for Blue Note. Can't remember who else plays here, but since this track is mostly a showcase for Clifford that doesn't really matter. Compared to every other version of Cherokee I've heard this one is really bare bones. The piano just playing single notes while the trumpet kicks straight off is something that took me off guard when I first heard it, but it's grown on me.

Drummer is pretty amazing too, must be Max...? Actually I looked it up and it's Art Blakey - I'm surprised he can manage not to over play on this, but it's fairly early in his career and I actually think he was better then. John Lewis on piano, I should have guessed. JTG said something the other week about him being a bit out of place in bebop, but I like the contrast.

>Track 8
Well this is the only tune I've heard from The Epic, and it's the reason I didn't bother with the rest of the album. The lounge feel and the god awful lyrics (I know they're the original ones, I just don't think anyone should use them) combine to sound sickening, but I'll stick it out to the solos. Not that it's worth it - they're fine, but the totally static backing keeps this boring as hell anyway. Maybe I haven't given Kamasi a fair chance, but this is terrible.

>Tracks 7 and 8
Comparing these tracks is doing great musicians a disservice.

>>64652158
>Track 9
This is Summertime, from Charlie Parker with Strings. One of my favourites on the album, and one of my favourite standards (though I don't actually know that many versions of it). It's totally unfair that people say Bird's ballad playing is a weak point - he may not have the tone or the feel of Getz or anyone like that, but in his own way he puts so much emotion into this, and even without bombarding us with notes he shows his gift for melodic improvisation. The strings are pretty tasteful on this track too, one of the best arrangements on the album.

>Track 10
This sounds like it'd be from the sort of album you have to really sit and listen to, and I rarely can do that for reasons of both practicality and endurance. It was quite interesting, but also a little too long. The pizzicato section could probably have been left out at least. My favourite of his renderings of the melody is the one straight after the drum solo. This is a pretty harrowing performance over all - it reminds me a bit of that one Pendrecki piece everybody knows.

>Tracks 9 and 10
Comparing these tracks is also doing great musicians a disservice, but only because each version is from different ends and different sides of the jazz spectrum.

>overall
Loved the theme this week, hope we can do more like this.

Seems I was the only one who liked the long intro to track one...

>>64630723
>Bird
>Some west coast character
This is why I love these threads
>>64637352
I play guitar but not much jazz. It's amazing how quickly you pick up on some players' styles. Monk is a good one - if you hear him once and pay attention you'll probably always recognise him again. But even some tougher ones you pick up on pretty quick. I find saxophonists and (some) pianists easiest to identify, and trumpets/horns pretty hard.

Then, as you see in these threads, another way of identifying people is context - "I know the sax is X so piano is probably Y".
>>64637985
Damn, didn't catch any of this first time through, but it really sticks out now...
>>64638113
I actually have a hard time picking out Shorter by his playing alone compared to other sax players.
>>64641463
I've been really enjoying Juju and Inner Urge recently.
>>64632092
That was fucking beautiful - chasing up the album straight away.

>>64652418
here's another earlier pre-fame Ayler recording of Summertime from when he spent some time in Finland in the summer of 1962

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7kOYZAHesZs

he was first enthusiastically welcomed when he showed up at the jam sessions in the local club, but many musicians were frustrated with Ayler not sticking to traditional forms

local music store owner/guitarist Herbert Katz was more impressed and invited Ayler to play on a couple of dance hall gigs outside Helsinki with his band - Ayler was apparently very amused by the concept of leaving the city to play gigs - and recorded three tracks at the Finnish national broadcasting corporation YLE's studios

outside of some US army band rehearsals, at least Internet sources appear to say that these are the earliest Ayler recordings

>>64652977
>US army band
In my head, this is a traditional marching band playing The Star Spangled Banner or something with a fully developed free-jazz Ayler soloing over it.

I have no intention of ruining this image by finding out the truth.

>>64653065
well, that mental image is certainly more remarkable than those earliest tracks - all of this stuff is on the Holy Ghost box set, btw, if someone is interested

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bump

Has anyone seen Miles Ahead yet? Is it any good?

>>64654647
Has it gotten wide release yet? I saw the ad they put out a while back and it looked...interesting. There were car chases and shootouts and it sounded like they were gonna make a big deal out of his relationship with his wife and his late resurgence.
I'm hoping the ad was just trying to catch the attention of people who aren't already interested in his music cause that isn't exactly how I'd want a Miles biopic to look.

>>64655048
I think it's out now, but might not be quite yet.

It's partly about the fifties and his first wife, and partly about some made up story involving shoot outs and car chases in the seventies. I read an interview with Don Cheadle and he said his rationale for it was that he didn't want to just do a boring biopic with the standard format, and that he wanted to do the sort of film Miles would have wanted to star in himself.

Listening now. Will post responses when finished

Here is the link for next week's. Theme is 2016 Eurojazz.

http://www40.zippyshare.com/v/oVVjBEfk/file.html

Then I think the week after we'll do one of JTG's. I forget which themes he had ready.

>Track 1
Recognized this almost instantly, Joshua Redman's version of Sonny Rollin's "St. Thomas", off of Spirit of the Moment Live at the Village Vanguard. That intro is pretty crazy, of course. Especially those altissimo glisses he does. I can't remember who else plays on this record; I have a feeling the piano player is Brad Mehldau but I'm not sure if that's correct especially given the solo doesn't sound that much like Mehldau to me. The drummer's cymbal work is pretty cool, but I can't place who it is really. I know I know of all these players are but I just can't remember who they are. 4 stars
>Track 2
A much more chill version already. The guitar player's rhythmic patterns are pretty interesting, they really lock into a groove. The bass player isn't doing very much. I'm not really sure why there's this vamp section in the middle, if it's intended to be a bass solo it doesn't sound like much of one. Some of the double stops he's doing are decent, as well as the guitar player's comping, but that could have pretty easily been part of his bassline while the guitar was soloing and I would have said his bassline was cool. As a solo, not so much. 2 stars
>Track 3
I think this is Nina Simone, but I'm not sure. You can definitely hear the Billie Holiday influence. The phrasing from both the piano and the singer is well done, it has a good feeling of space. I also can't remember who wrote this tune. It does feel meandering at times, but that last "in two" is beautiful. Very convincing performance. 3.5 stars
>Track 4
I'm really not good with singers. Is this Chet Baker? His tone is certainly unique. He actually reminds me a bit of Mr. Rogers singing in Mr. Rogers' Neighbourhood. I prefer the other version, the female singer sounds more honest in her performance. 2.5 stars

>>64652418
>I find saxophonists and (some) pianists easiest to identify, and trumpets/horns pretty hard.

That's interesting. I find pianists kind of hard to identify unless it's very obvious. I think sax players are the easiest and I think I'm usually pretty good at trumpet. As you say, context helps a lot. If I can identify one player usually I can make pretty good guesses about the others.

>Damn, didn't catch any of this first time through, but it really sticks out now...
One benefit of teaching is that I can really pick out small little details and mistakes in music.

>>64656514
>Track 5
I've played this song several times but for the life of me I couldn't remember the name until the singer came in. I'm most familiar with Brubeck's version in which he does the intro as a Latin. Once again I'm not sure who this is singing. I originally thought of Billy Eckstine, but Eckstine's voice is deeper and he uses more vibrato. 2.5 stars
>Track 6
I already like this arrangement, reminds me of Ellington's or Mingus' busier stuff. Definitely reminded of Mingus with that bari vamp that comes in before the trumpet solo. Based on the trumpet, I was thinking this might be Dizzy GIllespie, but I'm not sure I've ever heard this complex an arrangement from his big band stuff. 3 stars
>Track 7
I've no idea what this tune is, though I feel I should know it. I would believe this was Clifford Brown playing, and that might be Max Roach given the way the way he keeps the swing going during his solos. In which case that'd be Richie Powell on piano, which I think makes sense. 3.5 stars
>Track 8
I'm amazed these are the same song. So drastically different. Wait was that Cherokee? Holy crap I can't believe I didn't recognize Clifford Brown's Cherokee, especially given how many times I've probably heard it. This is obviously quite different. I like the drumming, reminds me of Curtis Mayfield records. I have no idea who this is though. The solos seem pretty uninteresting to me, the way they're so short and divided. Both the organ and keyboard player are doing some cool stuff. The singer's tone is quite nice. I would probably think this was mediocre if it wasn't for the locked in groove of that drummer. 3 stars

>>64656529
>Track 9
I've heard this before, many times. Charlie Parker's version of Gershwin's "Summertime", off of Bird with Strings. Summertime is just such a great tune, and the arrangement here is quite captivating. It has so much charm; every part just seems to click. The way Bird's tone pierces the mix is just glorious. 4.5 stars
>Track 10
I'm hoping this will be Albert Ayler's version, which is probably my favorite, but it's not. The percussion reminds me of Fiona Apple's "Left Alone". I don't know who this is, but it certainly is a unique approach. Is this the true progenitor of drumnbass? The bass solo is quite interesting, in terms of the techniques the player uses, certainly gets an interesting diversity of sound which takes the focus away from being practically on his own. This sort of sounds like NHOP to me, but I'm not sure. The drum solo was decent. A lot of stuff the bassist is doing at the ending in terms of sound and texture are really cool. The drummer as well for that matter. Interesting ending. 3 stars

>>64655852
Here are the ones I have ready.

Big Band
SteepleChase Label
Connecting Links
Live groups I've seen in the past few years
Wayne Shorter Compositions

I think there were two votes for the Connecting Links theme. Anybody else care to weigh in on which one they want?

>>64656529
>I can't believe I didn't recognize Clifford Brown's Cherokee, especially given how many times I've probably heard it.
It's not the version from Study in Brown

>>64656529
Also pretty interesting that the only person who didn't recognize track 8 as Kamasi actually liked it the best.

>>64656550
Would you be interested in putting together a playlist sometime?

>>64656611
My vote goes to Wayne Shorter

It would be going to connections but we've sort of had that this week.

>>64656516
>That's interesting. I find pianists kind of hard to identify unless it's very obvious
Well I find -anyone- hard to identify unless it's obvious, as these threads show.

>>64656681
I was hoping less people would recognise it because of this. There's so much bias against Kamasi, even doing the listens blind it seems it's hard to get away from that because the album is so well known.
I'm not surprised it got slaughtered but I'd like to think that maybe without all that context surrounding him that there'd be some merit to be found in his work.

>>64656903
If it helps, I first heard that song before I realised the extent of the hype and controversy, and I still thought it had no redeeming features.

>>64656681
>>64656903
Yeah, I definitely agree with a lot of people saying the solos were lackluster. If I had known it was Kamasi, I probably would've shit on it more. Like I said, I really liked the drums mainly.
>>64656825
Yeah, that sounds like it would be fun.
>>64656640
That makes sense I guess. It also makes more sense finding out that it's not Max. The way he dropped out the swing on the fours doesn't seem like something Roach would do now that I think about it. I still feel sort of silly for not recognizing the tune until on the next one the woman sings "indian warrior".

>>64644340
>>64637777
I gotta check out more Orrin Evans. That Song for My Father arrangement was great.

>>64656892
Yeah that's true.

>>64656903
Yeah. I tried to talk about it fairly. I think it's a cool idea to do a pop arrangement of a jazz tune but I just dislike the singing and the solos.

Has anybody heard the Robert Glasper version of Afro Blue with Erykah Badu singing? That's an example of a good pop version of a standard I think.

>>64656681
Actually Dolphy's Ghost seemed to dislike it quite a bit and it doesn't seem like he recognized it.
>>64645664

>>64657012
>Yeah, that sounds like it would be fun
Well let me know if you have any good ideas for themes, or you can do a wildcard one for your first one too if you want.

>>64657039
Yes, definitely one of my favorite modern pianists. On his solos he always seems to take the tune in a new direction.

Here, have another one of my favorite solos of his. I love the way it's mostly based around chords.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lCU4Rv_xQqc

>>64657012
That's great though! That's the reaction I wanted putting it on the playlist. I was actually really disappointed everybody else recognised it and shit on it.
There aren't a lot of people who had the luxury that >>64656960 had.
Mind, one could look at the whole presentation of "The Epic" as plenty of hype by itself.

That first track blew me away.
I really enjoyed the sax intro.

>>64655852
there better be gypsy jazz in here.

>>64657068
I agree about Robert Glasper's Afro Blue.
>>64657127
I could do a wildcard. I could probably just do all standards pretty easily. I don't know, I don't really have any ideas for themes.

How do you discern what makes Jazz good or bad?

>>64656611
Im voting for big band

>>64657068
I like that version of Afro Blue quite a bit - my favorite track from the Black Radio -albums probably, certainly the one I've listened to the most

>>64656611
Connecting Links sounds interesting to me

>>64657549
Breh

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zC4kvW4S6mk

>>64657184
You maybe should have found a live recording of Kamasi or something from youtube to put on there that people might not have recognized.

>>64657635
Read people's thoughts about these tracks in the thread. Most of us have a pretty different idea what makes jazz good or bad.

For me it's mostly about- does the music express something? What could it have done to be more expressive?

>>64658040
there's also that Young Jazz Giants album from 2004 with Kamasi, the Bruner brothers and Cameron Graves

>>64657709
>>64656611
Well it seems like there's the most votes for the connecting links one so I guess we'll do that next. So the schedule is:

Next week- 2016 Eurojazz
The week after- Connecting Links

Anybody want to claim the week after that? It'd be nice to have a few week's scheduled out in advance.

>>64657184
Also I'd say you can go ahead and post the reveal whenever is good for you.

>>64657635
You should join in with the listening next week.

>>64658549
I've got a standards one set up now, I could do 3 weeks from now.

>>64659101
Sounds good. Whenever you get a chance you can email me the tracks at [email protected].

If you can rename the tracks to be just numbers that would be helpful. You can either send the individual tracks as attachments or upload them somewhere like zippy and send me that.

>>64659211
Done

>>64659727
Cool.

>>64660722
Bump. Wonder where Satch got to.

man, I'm really anxious to find out who the bass player is on track 10

bumping for satch

We may never find out this week's tracks

>>64663734
bumping for justice

saving bump

will Satch ever come back?