What's more important?
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You are currently reading a thread in /mu/ - Music
Performance or composition?
There is no "more important" you dumb cunt
>>63631163
What a quality response, you must be a very intelligent individual
>>63631104
Neither has more importance, rather a piece will find a balance between both. However, I would say that any piece requires at least a bit of each to have quality.
Jazz and western classical are very much opposite in regards to performance/composition, but classical still allows for some moments of interpretation (e.g. suggested ornamentation or shifting tempo) and jazz pieces do need to have an element of predetermined composure to avoid being scattered (even an avant-garde jazz performer will have something in mind before he improvises)
Without composition, performance doesn't have anything to stand on.
Improvisation is fine, but you'll never get the same effect as a pre planned composition. You will never attain that high quality, coherent work with an improvisation session. Improvisation can be the basis of a composition, but you still have to compose the rest of the piece using the improvisation as your material.
>>63631194
so you think jazz solos that are composed would be of higher quality than improvised ones?
>>63631207
I'm not him, but I've always found when other instruments join with a lead instrument it enhances the experience, Improvisation by its very nature can't do that.
>>63631207
I don't think there is really anything that improv can achieve that composition can't outside of spontaneity.
>>63631207
of course. Benny goodman and swing era of jazz is best in my opinion, everything is scored out and excellent. Lalo Schifrin is another great example of scored out jazz of a very high standard.
>>63631104
What's the point of having a good performance if your composition is shit?
What's the point of writing good compositions if you can't perform for shit?
Both are equally important
can people actually write out notes on music sheets and know what it will sound like?
>>63631220
kind of irrelevant but okay
>>63631232
i think there's an inherent value in spontaneity that can create some great ideas where sitting down and composing wouldn't
>>63631234
that's just plain wrong you haven't listened to much jazz
>>63631262
>i think there's an inherent value in spontaneity that can create some great ideas where sitting down and composing wouldn't
Examples are welcome.
>>63631259
of course. They're called "composers"
conductors can read through scores in total silence and know exactly what is going on and what it will sound like. Some conductors think this is the purest way to experience music; without a performer getting in the way.
>>63631237
except a good composition can last forever until a good performance is made. performances die right after they've happened, unless you made a video or recording or something.
>>63631262
like I said, improvisation can be a basis for composition, but you still have to compose the rest of the piece based on your improvisation.
Improvisation gives you some material to work with, but then you have to turn that material into a coherent piece. Many composers do work this way, starting off with some improvisation, and then taking the ideas generated and working them into a good quality piece.
Good quality music doesn't just happen. I've played in a completely improvised band, and the quality waxes and wains. Some parts will be great, some parts wont be as great. But with a pre planned composition, you can take your time, and make sure every part is as good as it can be. You can make a masterpiece if you spend years on something. That just can't be done with pure improvisation.
>>63631308
Its okay if you don't understand the OP. There are a bunch of other threads that don't require thought to shitpost in mate
>>63631220
yes it can with knowledgable players.
>>63631104
composition
even if its spontaneous composition
>>63631232
it can achieve a thought, and perhaps a better thought, than the composer intended.
>>63631104
Production
deffo composition
>>63631104
Which wheel is more important for a bike? Front back?
Obviously you need both. If one is broken you will not enjoy it much.
>>63632502
well in your example you can work it with just the back wheel actually, if you're not a spaz and you practice a little. but more or less agree
>>63631220
>>63631234
i'm sure you don't know what you're talking about
>>63631327
i'd certainly say there's value in creating something new each time, that isn't there in performed composition
>>63631180
It's true though
>>63631819
haha kill yourself
>2016
>performance
>>63632556
>i'm sure you don't know what you're talking about
you quoted 2 different people. I have a music degree if that helps.
>>63632556
>i'd certainly say there's value in creating something new each time, that isn't there in performed composition
completely disagree. Everything in my post shows that making something new every time doesn't give a good quality of music. Why play 100 mediocre solos to 100 different crowds around the world, when you could play the same masterpiece to all of them? That way they'd all know the same piece, and could go back and listen to that same piece. There are still interpretations within a piece that change a lot. Look at bach's art of fugue and all the different interpretations of it. So much variety from just a single masterpiece.
You haven't provided any evidence as to why creating something new each time has more value than a pre planned composition. I've provided plenty of evidence showing that a pre planned composition allows for much higher quality music, with coherency and consistency between performances.
If you go to a performance of Mahler 5, you know what to expect. If you go to a jazz trio improv show, you just hope they're in good form, or that their dealers didn't bail on them and they're not feeling sick from not getting a fix.
Also you fail to mention compositions that make use of improvisation. What about lutoslawski, Penderecki, Cage and other composers who include improvisatory passages?
Improvisation is composition in real time, typically at a level good composers would consider trash bin tier.
>>63632737
>you quoted 2 different people
2 different people who don't know what they're talking about. You'd have to be a tone deaf pleb to not hear interplay among improvisers, and Benny Goodman most certainly did improvise, and was still shit. Lalo Schiffrin isn't even jazz
>everything in my post shows that making something new doesn't give a good quality music...I've provided plenty of evidence showing that a pre planned composition allows for much higher quality music
no not really, all you've said is that it doesn't and that it does, respectively
what the fuck are you on about, a quality musician is capable of playing a quality solo each time he plays, i'm not talking about some "junkie jazz trio" at a fucking steakhouse. I guess if a high school marching band plays Shostakovich like they do that makes all Shostakovich compositions and performances shit?
What the fuck is the point then of performing concerts if its the same each time? you could hear that composition with practically the same quality of sound and with better performers for infinitely lesser cost. Seeing an improvised solo gives you something new each time. you go to a jazz show you're going to hear something new, with the energy and intensity that comes with a live improv. And every performance with solos is a composition that makes use of improvisation, you fuck
>>63631104
Both are necessary for music to even exist. Even improvisation is just spontaneous composition.
>>63631234
>who is miles davis
>>63633171
>What the fuck is the point then of performing concerts if its the same each time?
to play a masterpiece to an audience. A piece of timeless music that everyone enjoys, even hundreds of years in the future. Thats the kind of impact a performer on their own can never have. Their performance is gone after they die. Compositions last forever.
Its fine to hear cool new solos each week, but almost none of them are going to be masterpieces, and all of them are going to be forgotten by the next week. You need a steady influx of mediocrity to keep you interested, while with a well written piece, you can hear it a hundred times and still hear new detail with each listen.
Jazz shows do have energy and "new" melodies each time, but they dont constitute excellent composition. Its disposable music.
>>63633371
christ what a fag
>>63632560
If you're incapable of actual discuss that involves more than spouting memes, sure big boy
>>63631104
Neither. Passion is.
>>63633371
regardless of jazz, I'd argue performance is as important as composition in classical music.
>>63631104
marketing and sex appeal
>>63633171
btfo
>>63631327
This guy gets it.
