What's your opinion of Sly and The Family Stone?
If you're a fan, what is your favorite album and why?
Mine is Fresh, largely due to vid related. Small Talk was nothing special but the title track is cool.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Mld7eSaydI
TARGO is the best thing ever
>>66367011
I love Riot, but I think Fresh is a little better
It was like everything good about riot (funky, syncopated) but developed even further and more upbeat
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4dZJHyr09ek&list=PLyhcslWBlO7Cu-UfXXkLg1D2fuHIL7BKD
the organ is like a fly that keeps buzzing around your head
And Sly's wife was fucking hot, I wonder why they broke up after like a year
I go back and forth between TARGO and Fresh, right now I prefer Riot slightly more, but when they're both among the strongest albums of the era it's easier to just say they're both great
>>66367824
What do you think about Small Talk?
>>66367824
Oh and I think Fresh has the strongest track by far out of both albums (In Time), but Riot seems more balanced from cover to cover
>>66367857
kind of weak compared to the two that came just before it. I don't think using strings was a good addition to the music - the organ does a much better job of "cloaking" the background with certain shades of colour, and are more suited to his style of music.
I'd say his solo debut from '75 has stronger material on it than Small Talk:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VnU2DN9Y0hY
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qg4g962XsWM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yc_K3Rmu2J0
>>66368025
I think the violin can be cool sometimes, like in their live performances when it wasn't too overpowering. On Small Talk I like the title track, but the rest is pretty underwhelming.
And can Sly fix his voice and reunite with the family stone and make some new stuff?
>>66368025
Oh and do you think the departure of Andy Newmark had a negative impact on the band?
>>66367923
I think so too, but if you listen to Little Sister's backing vocals on the B-side of Fresh - I still think it's just about the strongest backup singing I've heard on any record ever.
>>66368113
Yeah I gotta listen to the album cover to cover more, it's still a great album from what I remember but In Time is so good that it's hard to top it. I would say Frisky comes the closest to matching it.
I wonder what the hell sly is singing about in In Time though, like the opening lines are kinda nonsensical almost. But the song is so much fun overall, I love when he says "I switched from coke to pep and I'm a connoisseur ". I'm not sure what drug pep is supposed to be.
>>66366988
I really like Stand! I'm a huge fan of that psychedelic soul sound.
>>66368243
their woodstock performance was awesome
>>66368056
oh for sure - live strings are a different story entirely. there's a recording of James Brown live in Dallas '68 on the Try Me medley that I think has the strongest strings in a live context I ever heard
but in a pop recording context, they need to blend in seamlessly - Marvin Gaye's "I Heard It Through the Grapevine" is my go-to example of that. Small Talk's strings draws too much of my attention without generating nearly as much musical interest as what it replaced
sad news is that Cynthia Robinson passed away last year, so they won't be able to have a "full reunion" anymore. I still don't know why they spread apart like that in the first place, but I'm sure they have their reasons. Sly's been hanging with George Clinton a lot, contributing to his latest album. we'll see...
>>66368080
I think so, but that wasn't the only problem. the songwriting wasn't as powerful as the earlier albums. I think it was an inspiration problem too. I also sometimes wonder what would have happened if he had just waited - both Riot and Fresh took 2 years to make - the songs just weren't ripe yet.
>>66368367
Yeah, the strings are too dominant on Small Talk and make the album sound too soft. The album just isn't hard hitting, Loose Booty isn't bad but the lyrics are weak.
I know Cynthia Robinson passed away unfortunately, but all of the other members from all of their lineups are alive still *knock on wood*.
And yeah, the album might have been rushed, plus Sly's drug use was probably getting worse and worse.
>>66368155
pep pills - stimulants. I think he was ironically referring to his changing from one (illegal) stimulant to a legal one as being a more "refined" choice because you don't risk criminal charges in using it.
hearing that line always calls to my mind the line from the Cake song "Comfort Eagle"
>some people drink Pepsi
>some people drink Coke
>the wacky morning DJ says:
>"democracy's a joke"
>>66368442
oh okay, I never heard of pep pills, is that in the meth family?
And that makes, sense, hence the "connoisseur" bit.
And I guess the Harry Hippie thing was a reference to the Bobby Womack song. of the same name.
>>66368432
it's hard to call to mind very many musicians at his level that changed
>>66368501
I couldn't tell you what drug family they belong to. but they're controlled substances, for sure.
Harry Hippie was a reference to a Womack song - about his brother I think. but they way Sly put it was as a goad for people to not put off things they need to accomplish. in that way, Sly is "in the tradition" because James Brown is probably the best at this kind of thing
>get up
>do what
>you can
these kinds of lyrics that aim to motivate people, by putting these sorts of questions that you need to ask yourself on the minds of his listeners. "Africa Talks to You" has some of the best lines for this ever:
>but who's believing who?
>who's doin' the fishin'?
>do what you wanna do
>or keep on wishin'
if you don't act on your ideas or do what you feel is right, you got nobody to blame but yourself. deep stuff.
>>66368432
it's hard to say he didn't fulfill his promise - very few musicians on his level managed to make an album as great as Fresh, let alone having a "Riot" and "Stand!" in the them as well. he's a genius who basically revolutionized funk music
I always imagine him as a much subtler phenomenon than James Brown, but very few can stand shoulder to shoulder with those two.
>>66368655
What do you mean by hard to call to mind musicians at his level that changed? I'm sure a lot of other great musicians became fuck ups and released dog shit albums after releasing numerous masterpieces. Not that Small Talk is a dog shit album, it's just mediocre in comparison to pretty much any of its predecessors.
JB's call and response is great
Makes sense, it goes along with the upbeatness of Fresh compared to its predecessor.
Is it just me or does Fresh almost set the tone for the rest of the 70s?
In the early 70s you had ennui from the turmoil of the late 60s plus the Vietnam war still not being over, which TARGO reflects. Then by 73 the Vietnam war was over, and things seemed to have gotten better. Plus society became more integrated (think disco, for instance).
>>66368703
No I wouldn't say that he didn't fulfill his promise, whatever that may be. He released numerous great albums which people still enjoy to this day. I wish he performed his more complex songs live though, it would be awesome if there was a recording of a live In Time or Frisky.
He basically created mature funk music, the funk music that existed before Riot was basically a heavier version of soul music.
I honestly don't even think Funkadelic matches the Family Stone, from what I've heard so far.
>>66368747
>it's hard to call to mind very many musicians at his level that changed
I spaced and didn't finish my thought :)
I re-wrote it as this:
>>66368703
I don't know if it set the tone - I always get the impression that there's a sunny optimism in the early 70s that sort of evaporates from music as the 80s approach - disco excepted, of course. maybe it had to do with the fact that Nixon was gone, the Vietnam War had ended, yet things weren't as great as people who had been pushing for those things to happen had predicted. a kind of "now what?" situation
>>66368782
there's got to be bootlegs of Sly's sporadic live shows from that era somewhere. but some of those songs are studio creations that are difficult to bring to the stage.
Brian Eno talks about Fresh recently on his Baker's Dozen picks at Quietus, and he says that except for the drum machine, nothing holds that song together. I still haven't heard what he's heard in it, but I know it's really fragmented
I don't know about whether Sly's music is "mature funk" - I'd say what he did built upon James Brown's music, and not vice-versa. but both of them were crucial artists at a really powerful time for music.
it's been nice talking to you - if you want to pick up this conversation later, my rym is Toocold
>>66369111
I find that the mid to late 70s were more optimistic than the early 70s, the "now what?" seems to be 70-72 to me.
It's kind of like 1973 undid 1972, then 1980 undid 1979.
I think Sly tended to mostly perform the 60s songs when he did perform, and some of the simpler 70s ones. I understand some of them are studio creations and difficult to play live, but he could have busted out an In Time here and there.
And I gotta give Fresh the song another listen, and see if I can figure out what he's talking about.
When I say mature funk, I'm referring to that unmistakable, developed funk sound you hear on Riot and Fresh (very syncopated, rhythmically busy, funky, layered etc.).
I didn't imply that JB built upon Sly's music, although actually it's not that far fetched, I'm sure JB was influenced by Sly's work.
And I'd love to, but what is rym?
>>66369224
wait there isn't actually a song called fresh, lol
I'm guessing you meant In Time? I wasn't even aware it had a drum machine, I thought it was just Andy Newmark tearing that shit up.
Maybe I do hear a drum machine actually, it just sounds like a metronome in the background.
>>66369224
rym is rateyourmusic.com - basically I use it as a way of keeping track of people I talk to on here instead of just bumping into them unpredictably here in Anonymous-land
if you don't have an account it's easy, or if you want to continue the discussion some other way that's fine too
there's a line in In Time that says something like:
>I felt so good I told the leader how to follow
...and I always feel like he means James Brown. the song "Sex Machine" was released a year after a song with the same title appears on Stand! so that's one way to look at it. or there could be influences I might not detect in JB's early-70's work.
>>66369239
yes - In Time. both Riot and Fresh had a drummer as well as a drum machine working in the background. that's one of the reasons why I always come back to Sly's work when I talk about the ways to use drum machines in a way that's actually interesting
the other person who I always remember who used drum machines well was Miles Davis, funnily enough. he adored Fresh. he has some crazy machine gun effects he does with drum machines on his live album Dark Magus.
>>66366988
While Fresh has more good songs on it, I love the sound of There's a Riot Goin' On and while there is more chaff to wheat, the wheat is pretty damn sweet on that album.
>>66369393
Cool, I just made an account and added you
And I agree that he likely means James Brown. I need to listen to more JB though to see if the influence goes both ways.
What's funny is the "If It Were Left Up To Me" song, super out of place on the album, which is allegedly an outtake from Life.
>>66369523
added back
"If It Were Left Up To Me" makes sense as an earlier outtake, 'cause it feels much older-fashioned in its style and structure than their fresh take on the professional songwriting of "Que Sera Sera" that it's bumping up against.
if you want to hear a bit of James Brown there are a few good anthologies that helped me get into him way more than I used to be, here's a link to some funk shares I posted recently:
https://archive.rebeccablacktech.com/mu/thread/S65193252#p65195715
