Had it had it's proper release in 1967, would SMiLE stand above Pet Sounds, Sgt Pepper, Blonde on Blonde et al?
Personally, I think it possibly would. It's remarkable, even now, Surf's Up is the greatest centrepiece to any album ever, and the way they build a whole record around it, teasing little bits of it here and there, constructing a masterpiece around this thread, is genius.
There were a lot of masterpieces in the 60s - the ones I mentioned before, Forever Changes, Revolver, The White Album, Abbey Road, Trout Mask Replica etc., but would SMiLE have been the best of the best?
>>66178721
no because the beatles would have made something better in response
>>66178721
nah, it's still the Bitch Boys (sick!), they suck lmao xd
>>66178735
I fucking love The Beatles, but they didn't make anything better than Pet Sounds in response.
It quite possibly could have been, yes. I mean just by looking at what we have of the original sessions it's clear to see how complex and epic this album was intended to be. It's amazing stuff imo.
>>66178785
OP here, I actually saw Wilson perform it in its entirety in 2004 (I was 13, the first gig I ever went to, my Dad took me). Even though he was an absolute mess, it was staggering. I know I was young, but I'd never heard anything like it - still haven't.
>>66178735
>couldn't top pet sounds
What makes you think they could have topped this?
>>66178936
Honestly, I don't think The Beatles could have topped The Beach Boys at their best for one reason: they didn't have Brian Wilson. That's not a criticism of The Beatles, but if you'd given them, say, Surf's Up, or God Only Knows, they simply couldn't have done it in the same way. To have the Beach Boys' vocal abilities, Brian's in particular, means you can make music that affects people in such a unique way. Of course, this means conversely that Brian probably couldn't have delivered a song like Helter Skelter in the way The Beatles could, but the poignancy and beauty in Brian's voice is just astounding.
Brian had a touch and delicacy with songs that no one else has had, except Thom Yorke (in my opinion, again because he's able to combine songwriting genius with the most gorgeous of voices). The Beatles just simply couldn't match that.
>>66178742
ask a guy who unironically thinks this anything
>>66178725
>>66178735
Absolutely not. Only beatles album that comes close to smile and pet sounds is revolver.
>>66179078
why
>>66179129
Brian comes off as someone who is not super talented beyond natural vocal ability and someone who is very sure of his genius. I initially like Pet Sounds but seeing how clever Brian thinks it is has ruined it. the charm of it being dumb but somewhat beautiful pop music that made it enjoyable.
>>66179179
t. clinically retarded anon
>>66179179
Wow, that is the exact opposite impression I get of Brian. The man was crippled by self-doubt, had a breakdown, basically went to bed for a few years, and that self-doubt and fear meant he couldn't release SMiLE for 37 years. Even in 2004 he was on the verge of another breakdown prior to performing it. I've never seen any indication of arrogance whatsoever, the man put his whole life in the hands of someone else (Eugene Landy, which almost killed him).
>>66179179
Brian's actually pretty humble if you read interviews. He never said Pet Sounds was amazing, he just thought it was his best work.
Hilarious how you yanks can't get over the fact that The Beatles were better than The Beach Boys in every single way. Pet Sounds doesn't even come close to the poorest Beatles album. End of.
>>66179179
Brian certainly was not sure of himself. The aversion of Beach Boy members towards SMiLE is one of the factors that doomed the project. The Brian Wilson that emerged from SMiLE collapse was not the same that initiated it.
In the late 90s, Jack Rieley (manager for the Beach Boys in the early 70s), argued that the reason why the Beach Boys failed to match the Beatles in that crucial period of 66/67, was down to the infighting and lack of confidence in a group formed mainly of close family members. Meanwhile the Beatles were in full confidence and agreement of what they wanted to do, and had a manager (Epstein) and producer (Martin) to help support and fulfill their goals.
>>66178747
>>66178936
Pet Sounds is so overrated. Not even the best Beach Boys, nor is it better than Revolver and Pepper
>>66179419
I'm the OP, and posted the comment about The Beatles being unable to top The Beach Boys because of Brian. Not only am I English, I am from Liverpool - I lived there for the first 22 years of my life, and in 2nd year of Uni lived 5 minutes away from Penny Lane. Kind of fucks up your point.
>>66179460
It's comprehensively the best Beach Boys album (if you exclude SMiLE). I love everything The Beach Boys did, but Pet Sounds is just patently the best thing they did.
Absolutely not. A lot of the tracks were eventualy released few years after and people didnt care.
>>66179663
there are so many repeating motifs/callbacks throughout that its necessary that the songs be played together to get the full effect
>>66179536
But... I disagree
>>66178747
>>66178936
whoa
>this one simple logical argument DESTROYS the beatles!
>>66179703
Yeah, but hippies in 1967 didnt care about that stuff. They were all about psychedelic guitar music, and Sgt Peppers represented perfectly that era. Heroes and Villains was released (in part) and people mocked them.
>>66179712
It's not about denigrating The Beatles, I think The Beatles had a sustained run of albums that no one can match, but the comment that was being replied to was "The Beatles would have made something better" - I was just pointing out that I don't believe The Beatles ever bettered Pet Sounds, so what's the evidence that they could better SMiLE?
>>66178721
Pet Sounds was a critical and commercial flop everywhere outside of the UK and Smile was even weirder. So, no.
>>66179041
Lennon's vocal on A Day in the Life destroys me. Nothing Wilson has sung ever touched me.
>>66179935
Fair enough, different strokes I suppose!
>>66179921
I wasn't talking about commercial success.
>>66179460
what an absolute shit contrarian opinion. it's vastly better than both albums
>>66179935
can't disagree more but i guess that's why it's subjective
>>66178721
I've listened to the incomplete version, I don't understand what people see in it. Pet Sounds is miles better really.
>>66179179
holy jesus christ if this is bait it worked like a charm
what an absolutely wrong and shitty opinion. brian literally stopped making music a year after pet sounds because he was so plagued by insecurity.
>not super talented beyond natural vocal ability
wow, just so wrong i can't even find where to start
>single handedly challenged all of the beatles output during the early and mid 60s
>wrote some of the all time best pop songs
>influenced tons and tons of bands
how can you say brian thinks he's "clever" (how this word applies to brian's music i have no clue, seeing as the lyrics to brian's music were pretty straightforward and sincere) when lennon exists? do you honestly think the beatles or dylan or any of them are more humble than brian?
>>66178803
Wow thats honestly pretty amazing! I bought the SMiLE Sessions box set when it came out in 2011 and at that time I was 14 and i still cannot get over how incredible the music is.
>>66180850
I have the same box set too. Best thing in my collection.
>>66178721
Ya know, I'm loving all the smile threads latley (I've seen about 4 in the past two days), but I'd hate for SMiLE to become a meme. Honestly I don't see how something as beautiful as SMiLE can become a meme, but look at what happened to itaots, it got memed and people avoided it because they didn't want to be a meme.
And to answer the question, I think it would, and I bet it wouldve changed the way music was produced. There are so many aspects that separate SMiLE from other albums (for example the 20-40 second transition tracks that are tunes of their own), so I think that if it was released as it was meant to in 67 it would be more groundbreaking than any other album at the time
>>66178721
Heroes and Villains is the best Beach Boys song
but Pet Sounds it's a better album imo
>>66181056
>Heroes and Villains is the best Beach Boys song
i agree 100 percent, wow you have great opin-
>but Pet Sounds it's a better album
sigh
>>66179303
>>66179179
There's actually a recent interview where Brian either forgot or pretended not to know that Sgt Peppers was inspired by Pet Sounds, it was kinda cute actually.
>>66181079
can we judge an album that wasn't even made?
SMiLE's material is too far removed from rock or even popular music influences for it to have been a success.
Heroes and Villains was probably one of the most accessible cuts from the recordings, and like other anons were saying, people just didn't get it.
This album's material has more in common with the material released AFTER 67 of groundbreaking innovators to the likes of Frank Zappa and Captain Beefheart than artists of the time such as Beatles, Kinks, Stones.
Just a little insight into how far advanced Brian was musically.
>>66180459
Well, it's pretty important to the discussion. The Beatles being more popular than every other band of their time is pretty essential to their legacy. Sgt. Pepper is Sgt. Pepper not just because of what was on the record but because of how people reacted to it.
Highway 61 Revisited is the most important rock album ever. You can see the difference between rock before it was released and rock after it was. It's my least favorite classic Dylan album, so I'm not stanning when I say this.
>>66182157
There are a dozen "most important rock album ever"s
>>66182187
Yea, but Highway 61 Revisited puts its money where its mouth is.
>>66182196
As does Nevermind. Or Never Mind the Bollocks. H61R might be the better record in this case but that's like the least important factor in this discussion.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VxpA2cZv3hc
How close is this in what SMiLE
would sound like?
Does anyone have a lossy link to The Smile Sessions?
>>66183144
use slsk
>>66183251
What's that?
>>66183319
soulseek
>>66178721
>Personally, I think it possibly would. It's remarkable, even now, Surf's Up is the greatest centrepiece to any album ever, and the way they build a whole record around it, teasing little bits of it here and there, constructing a masterpiece around this thread, is genius
What bits do you mean?
>>66178721
It probably wouldn't have had a huge effect because it's a work of genius but also insanity and no artist but Brian & Co. could make it.
It's really not hard to take influence from the Beatles, they have cutey melodies and do some pretty simple studio experimentation and play a bit with song structure. What the fuck kind of influence would your typical 60's rock / pop artist take from SMILE? Throw away your guitar and listen to Gershwin on repeat until you're a genius?
>>66178785
>>66178803
Except that's not how the album was going to sound. What you heard at the show was after 40 years of hindsight and fan fanaticism. The
>mah three-part suite
>mah reoccurring themes
is literally produced from historical revision
>>66183464
>What the fuck kind of influence would your typical 60's rock / pop artist take from SMILE? Throw away your guitar and listen to Gershwin on repeat until you're a genius?
Most of the Elephant 6 bands were influenced by it, like Olivia Tremor Control, of Montreal and Apples in Stereo
>>66183464
>cutey melodies
Is this your way of undercutting the greatest melodists of the 20th century? It's pretty toothless. Tell us how you really feel.
>pretty simple studio experimentation
Tomorrow Never Knows is anything but. Nothing before that sounds even close to it.
>and play a bit with song structure
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PMMe3iwBV-I
>>66183464
>they have cutey melodies and do some pretty simple studio experimentation and play a bit with song structure
oh come on man, it's fair to like The Beach Boys more than The Beatles, but don't undermine the Beatles like that. They were more than "cute melodies" at least after Rubber Soul they were. Give credit where credit is do, I mean they fucking wrote A Day in The Life, I don't think Brian Wilson has a single song as good as that. And even in their simpler songs, their melodies were powerful and touching, not cute, the last part of the Abbey Road medley proves this, listen to Golden Slumbers/Carry That Weight/The End. Golden Slumbers is not even 2 minutes long and it evokes so much emotion.
>>66183730
>I don't think Brian Wilson has a single song as good as that
What is Till I die and Surfs Up?
>>66183730
Heroes and Villains is a better song than A Day in the Life
>>66183989
>>66183989
Not really
>>66183989
no
surfs up might tho
>muh unfinished backing tracks
>implying meme sounds is a better album than revolver
>implying strawberry fields forever didn't send reddit wilson on a downward spiral into literal insanity once he realized how shit his own music was in comparison
