Hey /mu/, I am currently a novice in music theory and am trying

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Anonymous
2016-06-29 23:52:19 Post No. 66036537
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Anonymous 2016-06-29 23:52:19 Post No. 66036537 [Report]

Hey /mu/, I am currently a novice in music theory and am trying to better understand its history for the sake of a deeper appreciation.

I am trying to figure out exactly what constitutes a Sonata (not Sonata form) in Classical terminology (not romantic nor baroque).
From what I've gathered, it is a term applied to a multimovement work consisting of an instrumentalist or two, but never more than that.
Its movement structure usually follows an order of 4 movements, starting with sonata form.

My question is, how vital is the movement structure to the integrity of a sonata? As evident by Beethoven's huge adjustments to the structure, as well as the structural standard of a sonata in the early Classical period, the genre itself seems vague.
Just how much change can you make to the structure until it is no longer a Sonata? If i remove Sonata form, can it still be considered a Sonata?

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Anonymous 2016-06-30 00:32:24 Post No.66037304
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Anonymous 2016-06-30 00:32:24 Post No.66037304 [Report]

>>66036537
bump

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Anonymous 2016-06-30 00:35:07 Post No.66037347
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Anonymous 2016-06-30 00:35:07 Post No.66037347 [Report]

>>66036537
Musicologists still debate how to define a sonata. It's never been settled and it probably never will. That said if you have the basic structure of exposition, development, and recapitulation, it probably counts.

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Anonymous 2016-06-30 00:47:35 Post No.66037582
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Anonymous 2016-06-30 00:47:35 Post No.66037582 [Report]

>>66036537
>how vital is movement structure
Not very. Everyone fucked with the structure at least once or twice because there never really was a standardized structure.
Beethoven have wrote several 2 movement piano sonatas. Op. 111 and both Op. 49 ones cometo mind but I know there's another.
Mozart wrote a sonata that opens with theme and variation and doesn't have a sonata form. The one with Rondo alla turka

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Anonymous 2016-06-30 00:59:34 Post No.66037844
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Anonymous 2016-06-30 00:59:34 Post No.66037844 [Report]

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>>66037347
>>66037582
Thanks. This really helps

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Anonymous 2016-06-30 02:00:50 Post No.66039035
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Anonymous 2016-06-30 02:00:50 Post No.66039035 [Report]

>>66037844
No problem. As a note of interest, the Genesis progressive rock song Supper's Ready is arguably in sonata form.

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Anonymous 2016-06-30 02:15:11 Post No.66039367
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Anonymous 2016-06-30 02:15:11 Post No.66039367 [Report]

>>66036537
Classical sonatas have up to 4 movements,

1. a fairly sophisticated opening movement, with A-B-A' form.
2. Slow movement, something cantabile or grave
3. Scherzo or minuet - somthing simple, lighthearted or dancy
4. a fast and furious final movement, either in A-B-A' or as a Rondo A – B – A – C – A – D – A, with a recurring A-part (also called a ritornello}