/jazz/
Images are sometimes not shown due to bandwidth/network limitations. Refreshing the page usually helps.
You are currently reading a thread in /mu/ - Music
You are currently reading a thread in /mu/ - Music
How important is technique and virtuosity in jazz?
What are the most technical and least technical jazz recordings you enjoy?
>>65991566
It's not important. It's just white people missing the point.
I think jazz is about managing your technicality, and knowing when it is/when it's not appropriate to play technically/simply. Bands that aren't technical at all can still be really enjoyable in their tightness, dynamics, and overall sound, while more technical bands are good for showcasing combined energy and individual talent.
It's arguable whether you can call it technical or not, but I think most of the appeal of Kind Of Blue, aside from the individual solos, is the simplicity and tightness of the playing and the sound.
As a jazz drummer myself, I love me some Ari Hoenig for complexity/technicality, especially in the rhythms of his stuff: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rr-d3tO-sXM
>>65991566
>How important is technique and virtuosity in jazz?
It's important to the extent that you are able to express yourself effectively. If your technique is good enough to fully express your ideas, then your technique is good enough.
Frankly I'm pretty suspicious of any jazz musician who is satisfied with their current technical abilities.
play whatever you want fags. youre all thinking way too much.
>>65991566
nice dubs
also too much technique isn't good either. like i hate those fucks who just run a chromatic scale in the middle of a solo just to show off. most of the time it doesn't fit unless there is specific harmonies.
that being said I love me some zappa and weird shit like that. the important thing is htat complexity has to be done with taste.
>>65991566
>>65992648
also is this a general?
>>65992697
sure why not
Coltrane was so good at knowing when to get complex in his solos
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=681-mXSMAj8
>>65992648
>like i hate those fucks who just run a chromatic scale in the middle of a solo just to show off.
why would running a chromatic scale be showing off? can you post an example of somebody just running a chromatic scale in the middle of a solo?
>>65992936
im not much of a jazz man. but you hear that kind of shit all the time in shitty speed metal
>>65992954
youre just being irresponsible now
>>65992954
so how's that relevant to OP's question?
>>65993006
ahahahahahahaha
>>65993021
well op was talking about complexity and shit and i was saying how sometimes too much technique isnt good, especially if you shoehorn it in, know what i mean?
>>65992648
>zappa as an example of taste
kek
>>65993361
zappa never puts shit in randomly. the only example i can think of thats a MAYBE is that one song from the jazz from hell album. the beltway bandits. even then thats pretty fucking good. most of his electronic albums try to go beyond norms
>>65993402
Admittedly, I'm not a Zappa expert but I've heard at least 9 of his albums. From listening to those though I would say that "putting shit in randomly" is a pretty accurate way to sum up Zappa's music.
>>65993445
youre a crazy nigga man. zappas fucking gr8. i guess we all have our own spectrum of whats random or not. but id expect a jazz thread to be lenient towards that kind of stuff
>>65991566
as long as you can say what you need to say, technique doesn't matter.
I'm still newer to jazz, have listened to most of the "essential" artists and my two favorite pieces of music are Eric Dolphy- Iron Man and the Duke Ellington- Mood Indigo single. I also love Frank Zappa, The Residents, Beefheart, etc. What would you recommend for me?
Also what Ellington compilations are worth listening to?
>>65992518
Hell, Wes Montgomery played with his thumb and sounded so smooth and unique. You have to be able to play the music you hear in your head and that's what it's all about.
Jazz. And Jazz music.
>>65997547
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A6zYwe3YCiI
>>65993445
You haven't listened to The Residents, have you? They're definitely not a jazz band, but their Warner Bros album is as random as it gets.
What are your favorite 2016 jazz releases so far?
Mine is pic related.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EEP8TYk2hQI
>>65998107
>>65998128
>>65998107
It was pretty good too.
>>65998147
>>65998128
>>65998107
This one is nice too.
>>65992154
>>65992518
>'It's about expressing myself!!!'
Only halfwits who lack the imagination to create anything coherent ever say this.
>>65998169
In other words, when you can't say that you're realizing a concept, or trying to reinvent a past stylistics, or rewrite a piece in a music-theoretically different terms, or fuse three or more genres, you're reduced to claims of 'self-expression'.
>>65997535
>tfw thought that that's how you're supposed to play jazz guitar before even seeing Wes
>>65998107
>>65998128
>>65998147
>>65998166
This one is amazing.
>>65998193
Well most beginners play with their thumb :-)
I need some drum scores of jazz songs, got any ?
>>65999603
Scores? It's mostly improvised. Just find some books or something (I'm not a drummer), read about the 6/8 ride cymbal rhythm, and "dropping bombs" with the snare.
>>65998169
>>65998182
What the actual fuck are you talking about?
>>65996024
>Also what Ellington compilations are worth listening to?
never no lament.
>>65991566
it's all about taste. i love bud powell but i can't stand art tatum...
I want to play jazz, my brother has a piano and i have interest in trumpet. Anyone have tips what type of instrument is good for beginners and how to learn?
>>66001416
I guess that the best instrument for beginners is the one that you love, the one that you want to play.
I started learning alto sax week ago and it's really fun.
>>65992154
man Gilad is so gnar
>>65998107
Michael Formanek and Ensemble Kolossus- The Distance (8.8)
Aruán Ortiz Trio- Hidden Voices (8.5)
Luis Perdomo- Spirits and Warriors (8.3)
Craig Taborn, Christian McBride, Tyshawn Sorey- Flaga: Book of Angels Vol. 27 (8.3)
Conrad Herwig and Igor Butman- Reflections (7.8)
Misha Taiganov- Spring Feelings (7.8)
Vijay Iyer and Wadada Leo Smith- A Cosmic Rhythm with Each Stroke (7.8)
Eric Revis- Crowded Solitudes (7.7)
Renku- Live in Greenwich Village (7.6)
Jack DeJohnette- In Movement (7.5)
Jon Davis- Changes Over Time (7.4)
Myra Melford and Ben Goldberg- Dialogue (7.4)
Ches Smith- The Bell (7.4)
Herlin Riley- New Direction (7.4)
Henry Threadgill- Old Locks and Irregular Verbs (7.4)
Warren Wolf- Convergence (7.4)
Dr. Lonnie Smith- Evolution (7.3)
Protean Reality- Protean Reality (7.3)
Ralph Alessi- Quiver (7.3)
Reeds Ramble- Lets Call the Whole Thing Off
Harris Eisenstadt- Old Growth Forest (7.2)
Avishai Cohen- Into the Silence (7.2)
Boris Kozlov- Conversations at the Well (7.2)
Henri Texier- Sky Dancers (7.1)
Jeremy Pelt- #Jiveculture (7.0)
Bill Charlap Trio- Notes from New York (7.0)
Donald Edwards- Prelude to Real Life (7.0)
Logan Richardson- Shift (7.0)
Ken Fowser- Standing Tall (6.9)
Renee Rosnes- Written in the Rocks (6.9)
Jim Rotondi- Dark Blue (6.8)
Kenny Barron- Book of Intuition (6.8)
Fire!- She Sleeps She Sleeps (6.6)
Frank Woeste- Pocket Rhapsody (6.4)
GoGo Penguin- Man Made Object (5.6)
rock pleb here.
in rock we are used to vocals-guitar-bass-drums and sometimes keyboards.
in jazz however, i noticed that the instruments can vary widely. drums are the only instrument guaranteed in jazz.
i like jazz without wind instruments. stuff like avishai cohen trios or esbjorn svensson trio. are they taken seriously here? is it considered a sub-genre of jazz to not have wind instruments?
>>66002897
piano trios are very popular.
>>66002897
>drums are guaranteed
HAHAHAHAHAH
>>65996024
Go look up shit on the labesl Actuel, Esp Disk & India Navigations
>>65996024
>ellington
listen to the harlem suite all the way through, do it.
>reccs bitch
mingus presents mingus, ornette coleman-science fiction, black saint and the sinner lady, new york eye and ear control, ran blake and jeanne lee
>>66002897
nothing is guaranteed newfag, this is jazz. no those groups arent taken seriously, listen to the album "thelonious monk trio" and why the fuck not listen to "jaz advance" by cecil taylor
>>66002897
Drums aren't guaranteed, see Oscar Peterson trio, and for jazz without horns, try Bud Powell, some Thelonious Monk recordings, and Bill Evans.
>>66003075
>Science Fiction
Nice choice, but i think id start them with Dancing In Your Head
The best, least technical stuff is post-1970s Mal Waldron
>>66003075
Listened to Harlem Suite and I much prefer Ellington's singles. Love the two Mingus albums, I enjoyed seeing all the names on Eye and Ear, but it kind of felt like second rate free jazz to me. Will listen to the others.
>>66003307
Listen to Roy Meriwether - Nubian Lady too
>>66003157
Eh, not a bad choice, im probably just partial cause science fiction is a favorite of mine.
>>65991566
Technique and virtuosity are pre-requisites in jazz. Unless you're talking about modal jazz the genre has the most complex harmony in any form of music. You can't just solo in one key over the changes, the point is to play inside the harmony and to each chord, and the chords are whizzing by at sometimes 2 per measure like in "I've Got Rhythm". Not only are you expected to play deep inside each chord, you are expected to decorate it with chromatics such as passing tones, enclosures, extensions, and so on. There's a saying, "all roads lead to jazz", and it's true. As a musician advances in whatever their chosen genre is, as they reach new heights of technique and harmonic ability they'll come to a point where there is no challenge left to be had, and the only thing left that provides endless challenge is jazz.
>>66003157
Eh, not a bad choice, im probably just partial cause science fiction is a favorite of mine. >>66003307
I disagree, I think Ellingtons genius in his compositions is displayed more beautifully on his suites but you really can't go wrong with duke. Eye and ear was just one I threw in just in case everything else seemed to light for you. Definitely not second rate, it really take a listen to the whole thing through, it was a movie soundtrack if that gives you context.
>>66003643
>the point is to play inside the harmony
What a fear-based style lmao
>>66003157
Though for a rockist dancing in your head might be a good recc, just wanted to make sure my recc could definitely be classified as "Jazz", which I wouldn't say dancing in your head is. I hate genre-fing stuff, especially with people as creative as ornette but I try to be careful on 4chan
>>66003725
I would think that a rockist would be better off with SF, because it has more "songs" compared to Dancing.
>>66003721
Do you even bebop? Where do you suppose that sound comes from? All jazz is not free jazz, there's a reason Birth of the Cool does not sound like Sun Ra, and it's playing the changes with chromatics sprinkled in. It's called discipline, not fear. And it takes true musicianship to express one's self staying with the forms and idioms of the genre. There's nothing wrong with free jazz or just blowing whatever notes and saying fuck the harmony, you're just not going to get a lot of gigs with cats that can play
>>66002897
>drums are the only instrument guaranteed in jazz
What is solo piano jazz?
>>66003874
>bebop stays exclusively in the harmony
Have you heard the coda to Moon Dreams? It's pure atonality. That sound has always been there. If you think bebop is "changes with chromatics sprinkled in" you should fuck right off back to Berklee
>>66003906
Or Charlie Haden's glorious duets album
Or Jimmy Giuffre's trio
Or Leroy Jenkins' solo violin album
and so on
>>66003956
Obviously I wasn't implying solo piano is the only thing to fit this discription
>>66003930
Right. The Coda. That's contrast. The whole tune is not like that. I'm not saying that's all bebop is either but it's a huge part of it. You think Miles isn't thinking about the chords he's playing over? Like I'm just gonna play whatever it's jazz nobody will notice. Are you a musician or do you still think jazz just sounds like random notes, because if so you need bigger ears. I'm just saying to be a jazz player and sit in with other musicians and jam you have to know your shit. If you can't read a chart, if you just play whatever you want when you're comping chords like a Dbmin7b5 when the piano player plays C9 you're going to sound like a fucking idiot and you will not get more gigs. What do you think is going on in Giant Steps? Why do think that is the major test of a jazz player's chops? Because the point is you have to play inside these crazy changes that are moving so fast, just like Coltrane did. Analyze his Giant Steps solo. Tell me what you see there. Chord tones. Chromatic passing notes. And that's it. And I didn't go to school for music, or anything else for that matter. I'm a musician.
>>66004136
Literally none of that is what I was talking about. I am a musician, and I think of myself as a jazz musician so I can see when you're shoehorning in slang to make yourself sound like a 40 year old black man but you just sound like a 20 year old white dude. Obviously you can't just "play whatever you want", if you think that playing outside is playing "Whatever you want" with no regard to what the band is doing it's painfully obvious that you have never honestly explored music that goes out. It's interesting that you mention Giant Steps, which honestly isn't that difficult after you study it, because Coltrane is the one person most directly responsible for what mainstream musicians think of as "going out".
Beyond any of that, if you are afraid to choose to go out because Coltrane didn't on Giant Steps, and you base your musical decisions on a distinction between "inside" and "outside" that died 40 years ago, if you think that the solo on Giant Steps is the end-all of jazz because it's technical and not because of what it says to you personally, you aren't the jazz expert you think you are.
>>66003930
Check out this analysis of Bill Evans' solo on Night and Day. Tell me if you think he was just playing whatever and happened to get lucky on every chord, or he is a disciplined musician using a lifetime of study and practice to improvise beautiful melodies that sit inside every chord change perfectly? Also, Louie Armstrong bud. Louie fucking Armstrong.
>>66004379
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oRCCku0CehU&list=PL613D1A6B3C4BBDF2&index=15
Forgot the link
>>66004379
>reading comprehension
What made you think "luck" has anything to do with it? And i've heard fucking Bill Evans on Night and Day, I'm a pianist for chrissake. Why do you think a lifetime of study and practice can't lead to exploratory, freer music?
Now listen to this, and tell me it doesn't move you despite the harmony being fluid:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EYnrtXiA0TA
>>66004332
lol I'm a FIFTY year old black man. Listen, I think I get what you're saying. The point I was arguing was that playing jazz requires discipline and study, which I thought you were negating but I see you're not. As a jazz player myself I probably just think of things differently than you. If I'm playing "outside" I still think of the outside intervals as extensions, like a #11 or b13 or I'm not thinking too hard and just moving the scale up or down a half step for a moment. To play outside there must first be harmony to step outside from, right? And I'm just saying to go "out" you have to know what's "in" and that requires study that a lot of genres don't require.
>>66004581
All that is fair enough but I don't agree with the perspective. I study "outside" harmony to the point where I'm hearing it as consonant, so I don't have to use non-harmonic tones as effects or anything dishonest like that. So personally no, I don't think of an inside, but that's definitely a minority opinion.
>>66004544
Yes! That was my point, "a lifetime of study". You're obviously at a point beyond me, I'm still studying and working within the limited framework I suppose of just trying to keep up with the changes and keep it interesting with extensions and chromatics. Can you give me an example of your thought process for when you're doing something exploratory?
>>66004332
>if you think that the solo on Giant Steps is the end-all of jazz because it's technical and not because of what it says to you personally, you aren't the jazz expert you think you are.
This.
You're completely missing the point if you're listening to jazz solely for the flashy musicianship. I feel like people who go around espousing this attitude are probably non-jazz musicians who are impressed by how well these guys can play but who aren't actually connecting with the performances emotionally.
>>66004637
And I'm a 30 year old white dude. And I did shoehorn in that "cats" line. And if felt good. Really good.
>>66004643
When I hear Giant Steps I'm deeply moved. The jazz that I love impacts me emotionally on a super deep level. And I would love to do that myself, therefore I try to figure out how he was making those sounds that moved me like that, and I analyze the harmony and what he played to it to see his thought process that brought him to those notes. It's music for music's sake I promise you. Like when a filmmaker watches a Kurasowa film he doesn't just say "wow that's beautiful", he goes, "look at that shot, look at how he uses the light there, look at that edit". There's nothing wrong with wanting to look under the hood if you're interested in a craft. And people are usually interested because it moves them. You can lose sight of that, but you don't have to
>>66004637
If this isn't sarcasm, then I try to think in pure melody, like Ornette Coleman and Sonny Rollins' sequencing. I play melodies that resolve themselves with their own internal logic that sometimes can and sometimes cannot be explained by its relation to the harmony. The most perfect example is during the solo on the Bley tune in the link I posted: The song is in G (the tape is fucked so it sounds Ab) and one of the lines of his solo resolves itself a half step up. It sounds perfectly consonant and correct and there is no earthly explanation why. I can post my transcription of it if I can find it.
To get to this point I study the melody and harmonic process of older jazz musicians. Melodies from Ornette, Lester Young, yes Louis Armstrong, Herbie Nichols, the harmonic ideas from Monk, Tatum, Bill Evans, and whatever else I can find, and divorce them from their context in the original recordings.
None of this is to say that I CAN'T play straight-ahead jazz, but that's not my music.
so you guys who are claiming to be ancient jazz musicians post some of your playing so we can see who really knows what they're talking about.
>>66004811
I'm game to upload some garbage I've recorded but most current jazz musicians just play live
Posted from my phone:
>>66002897
Rock goes against the norm commonly as well
See: any drone doom, lightning bolt, death from above, many post rock and post punk bands
>>66004759
Not sarcastic at all. I think what you're talking about is really the ultimate goal of all of the study and all of the practice. That you can just think melodically without clouding the mind with too much information. I'd love to see that analysis, that tune is gorgeous
>>66004832
>but most current jazz musicians just play live
don't tell me you don't ever record yourself playing live. after all every good jazz musician knows how important it is to listen back to your own playing right?
>>66004878
>>66004863
The lead sheet is here:
http://www.wattxtrawatt.com/IdaLupino.pdf
And yeah, that tune is one of the most beautiful things ever
>>66004891
It's not for consumption though
>>66003116
Horns aren't wind instruments, family.
>>66005045
???
>>66005045
They're not woodwinds, but I mean, there's wind in there
>>66005045
lol.
>>66004811
whatever happened to the threads that somebody was trying to start where everybody would record themselves playing the same tune with a backing track? It seemed like a cool idea. I suck at jazz but I wanted to try to post in the threads to try and get better.
>>66003930
you're out of your depth mate.
>>66004907
Thanks for that! I'm a guitarist that doesn't play a lot of solo guitar by myself too much, so I'm not really dictating my own harmony, I'm either comping or soloing to someone else's changes. I'm gonna making a backing track with those changes from the lead sheet though and see what I can come up with. I love the idea of a G pedal with all these different flavors superimposed on it. What I'm usually doing, and let me know if you have any suggestions to free me from this, is like say I'm jamming So What with some friends, I'm thinking "D Dorian". Now I still am trying to hear what I play before I play it but I still have the notes of D dorian layed out across the neck in my mind. I don't hear the other notes too well yet so when I step out I'm grabbing some notes that don't have the "green light" on them and mixing them in, sometimes I know what it's going to sound like, sometimes I surprise myself. Then when the Eb change comes, everything just goes up a half step and I keep going. Not sure how to break out of that or if I even need to, tips?
>>66005184
I like that idea
>>66005262
If that's what you're hearing, then your playing is honest, but if you want to stop hearing that, get a backing track or whatever and play every note against it. Not fast or anything, just play the D minor and hang on C, then C#, then D, and see what all of them sound like. Approach it like you've never heard of a scale, and don't listen for consonant or dissonant, try to gauge in some sense what each note sounds like to you regardless of correctness or pleasantness. In the long term, study melody, whatever kind of melody you like whether its bebop, from some folk tradition, pop, wherever it's from. Learn them by ear, no matter how long it takes. If the stuff that you like is less inside, then you'll start to play less inside. Either way you will find honest music.
As far as just getting the sound of outside playing in your ears quickly, listen to John Coltrane's modal playing on stuff like India. For stepping away from the inside/outside divide, check out some 12-tone music and think about the way that even though it can be discordant, it's never dissonant because it's not trying to resolve.
quit bitching and post some of your playing
https://clyp.it/haf0cffz
>>66004750
I agree, analysing the tools a musician uses to create an emotional performance can be very enlightening.
As you said, so long as you aren't losing sight of the bigger picture it's fine to analyse a piece from a technical standpoint. It's when people start treating jazz solos like players are just setting up flaming hoops to jump through as an intellectual exercise when I start taking issue.
>>66005074
>>66005116
>>66005155
lel, I was always under the impression that "wind" was synonymous with "woodwind". I've always heard horns and such be described as "brass".
>>66005292
>not editing it into one long improve track with switchoff solos including at least one drum solo
It'd be best if everyone contributed a file with an isolated solo track
>>66005467
it's definitely pretty common i think. anything controlled by your lungs. I don't think a harmonium would fit under it, but I might be wrong
>>66005467
Wind instruments comprise brass and woodwind.
>>66005184
I think it was a cool idea too.
>>66005262
This>>66005398 is pretty good advice. To add to it, I'd say to try to set certain parameters for yourself when you're practicing. Like first of all- you CAN play an interesting solo using only Dorian, so since you're already comfortable thinking in those terms, start with trying to make your solo as interesting as possible using only the notes from the Dorian scale. Maybe next you can try to play a solo and try to avoid those notes from the Dorian scale as often as possible. Then try starting a solo with a simple melodic idea and then trying to make every subsequent phrase in the solo relate in some way to that melodic idea, without worrying about scales or modes at all... there are hundreds of other ways to set parameters like that.
Then when you go to perform you'll have so many ideas and options to draw from that you can let your instinct take over.
>>66005567
>>66005571
Ah, gotcha. Well hopefully I won't embarrass myself in the future lol
>>66005416
Don't feel like hooking up my computer to my keyboard right now so just going with whatever I could find on my computer.
Here's a solo recording of Skylark from years ago.
http://vocaroo.com/i/s0anYtyJ78W0
If the anon who rec'd me this yesterday is here, thanks a lot.
This is absolutely wonderful.
>>66005416
https://clyp.it/jkyn0sqz
An early recording of one of my compositions. This is a rehearsal and mostly feeling out how this is supposed to be performed so don't be too harsh. I'm piano
>>66006273
That was me :3 thanks for actually checking it out
>>66006050
What did you check out for those block chords?
>>66006316
For sure man, I'll probably check out some more of Kikuchi's stuff since I read up on him a bit and he seems pretty interesting. Also, someone posted Ryo Fukui's Slowboat album a while back so I guess this is just gonna become my Japanese pianist week lol
>>66005416
>https://clyp.it/haf0cffz
Is this all "live"? Like it sounds like you're using an effects pedal or something to hold out the sustained chords then improvising over them...?
>>66006401
I'd recommend Sunrise, and either of the Paul Motian Trio 2000 + Two at the Village Vanguard albums. Don't know anything about Fukui though
>>66006295
Did you notate it or any way? If you hadn't called it a composition I would have thought it was just a free improvisation.
>>66006337
I'm not sure... It was a few years ago so I'm not sure if I lifted that from something or where I got that from. I think it's just planing the "So What" chord with the top note as the melody.
>>66006497
Thanks, and you should check out Fukui if you get a chance. This album is pretty sweet modal jazz from the 70's.
>>66006452
Yeah it's all live, that's exactly what it is. It's the EHX Freeze pedal, hadn't really used it til today. Really nice for solo improvising.
>>66006574
It's a 6 bar sketch but the it's fairly specific
>>66006649
You should try double tracking- record yourself playing melodic stuff then record a second track of 'comping' with it.
Who /keithjarrett/ here?
>>66006741
Dat moaning tho
On the subject of free solo improv here are some I've posted here before. I think both were done without a sustain pedal which makes for an interesting challenge.
http://vocaroo.com/i/s0ehksM5sTAk
http://vocaroo.com/i/s1Pz7BfjLbSQ
>>66006837
The first recording is especially interesting, using free improv to create something that could be a composition is a project I'm always working on. Very cool, both of them
>>66006890
You should check out a group called Trio Libero with Andy Sheppard. They recorded an album for ECM. Their process is to record their free improvisations, write compositions based on their improvisations, then to improvise using those compositions as their basis. I always thought that was a pretty interesting process and the music turns out pretty good.
>>66006741
He's so brilliant but I honestly can't watch him live. It makes my tendons hurt to see him play, it's like how watching someone get their teeth hammered out would make your teeth hurt. Killer player though
>>66006727
Yeah I've done that before, it's good for practice, but I've been working on my live solo improv set lately. I used to be strictly no pedals, but I like that the freeze pedal adds a constant drone of your choice to use as a very linear reference point, almost like solid straight lines in a painting.
Bill Frisell uses his a bit more conventionally, here's a cool clip
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NO-1Euq2RBk
>>66006837
I really like these two, especially the second. The rhodes does sound different without the sustain pedal, don't think I've ever heard it played like that on a recording.
>>66007013
That is interesting. Thanks for getting me hip. I've heard him in trio with Carla Bley and Steve Swallow but that's it
>>65992866
i think this is my favorite coltrane solo. it's perfect
>>65992936
he doesn't have an example because it doesn't happen and would obviously sound like shit. he's just acting like fast runs are just chromatic scales
>>66007071
>>66006806
>tfw can't find at the blue note recordings on youtube
The song Desert Sun they played is probably one of the best things I've ever heard. If you can find the set (it was a 6 cd set I think) make sure to get your hands on it. They have lots of 20+ mins of free improvs.
So can anybody here actually play standards and stick within the chord changes and stuff because all I see is bullshit free improv stuff.
>>66007078
That Frisell performance is magic, thanks for this man
>>66007412
>>66006050
Skylark is a standard. My impov isn't really great in that recording but I'm making the changes at least. And reharmonizing them quite a bit.
>>66007412
>Sticking within the chord changes
How's freshman year of jazz classes treating you?
>>66007772
Does that mean you can't do it?
>>66007772
im a big fan of free improv and free jazz, but even the greatest masters have chosen to stay in form a lot of times, there's nothing bad about this.
>>65992866
>>66007276
McCoy tyner on this track tho
one of my favourite piano solos
>>66007848
>>66007890
Obviously, it's just the mindset of approaching jazz like it's a coloring book that's annoying. I like to think of chord progressions as building blocks rather than strict boxes that you must contain yourself in. That kind of playing is best left as background music for cocktail parties. Nothing wrong with playing standards though.
>>66007412
Well here's a quick one I just recorded on my phone. Making the changes on Stella by Starlight. Just unaccompanied piano.
http://vocaroo.com/i/s1GqZsUbXjIB
>>66007412
>reading the thread
It's a skill, I know
>>66008564
I am learning the piano by myself, started recently. What are Your pointers on the direction of study? I am studying The Complete Musician for music theory. What do You think is the most worthwhile musical exercise? 'Playing' would naturally be an answer, but I'd like to hear something more, from a person that I hear has ability on the instrument. How to venture into jazz without making it a shallow journey ?
>>66006741
The only jazz musician I dislike more than Keith Jarrett is Pat Metheny
>>66009653
Well what's your overall goal for playing piano? You want to be able to play jazz?
>>66001416
Trumpet is a good place to start, not too expensive, light and easy to transport.
Don't worry about how bad you sound to begin with, your tone and ability will improve with solid practice. The feeling of playing will lift you through that shitty period of not being as good as you'd like to be.
>>66009944
When I was a primary school kid, I settled on a dream - back then I phrased it as 'being a person that is educated all-around and respected'. I figure that I wanted to become a level-headed person with a set of abilities considered classical - knowing several foreign languages, literate, have a degree of courtesy, at least marginally knowledgeable in the arts. Playing an instrument enriches and greatens the atmosphere of any event. I have been witness to that when a young Hungarian started playing jazz in a hotel during a conference. He was no virtuoso, but he was apt enough, and I could feel the merry air that was around the piano and the casual listeners.
I thoroughly enjoy music and I like a good dissonance. Nothing against popular music - my favourites just seem to gravitate towards acts of 70s prog rock, such as Gentle Giant, ELP or ELO.
I will always partly remain an introvert, and even with beginner knowledge of music theory feel great joy in attempting to express a mood on the keyboard.
I have been playing the guitar but don't have the heart for the instrument. I have been craving for the piano.
>>66009944
>>66010763
tl;dr
It feels good to play the piano. I also have a thing for jazz, and I assume that the ideas learned there will help develop flexibility on the keyboard and in my mind.
>>66010763
Well if you want to play jazz I'd say make sure you know enough theory to understand how a lead sheet works and then start learning an easy standard. Autumn Leaves is a good starting spot. Learn the melody and the chord changes and how to walk a bassline then start working on soloing. Find some solos to transcribe and learn how they solo over the changes. After that start learning some more standards by ear.
That's how you start.
>>66011290
I see. Thank you.
/jazz/ thoughts about pic related?
imo 10/10
More albums like pic related?
>>66006837
How long did it take for you to get at that level, and have you had any special education in jazz? I know it varies from person to person, but I am interested at getting to this level.
Awesome playing at both of those, lovin it.
jazz fusion
is
cool
>>66011687
Withca on that on, jazz fusion is so cool that it is a shame that its a shame that not that many people know of it as of today... I think a lot of people woulda enjoyed it if they gave it a chance.
>>66011600
I really like it. The last song is a little cheesy, but it's a very good album overall. I especially like the first two tracks.
>>66011290
Hey jtg, I've been meaning to ask you a question. How often do you change up what sub you're using on a tune? Like, if you're playing Stella by Starlight, and you sub the second chord to a Eb7, the next time you come around to that point in the chorus will you play A7 or Cdim? Or do you keep it the same? I've been working on solo piano lately and I've been having trouble with my left hand getting stuck playing the same chords in the same voicing while my right solos
>>66011806
Well it's all relative... Let's say you voice the second chord of Stella as G, Bb, Db, E. You can look at that as an A7b9, an Eb7b9, or a C# fully diminished. You change the color of those sounds by altering the extensions. So when you go through a tune to learn it, rather thank thinking about substituting chords, just experiment with the different voicings and look for ones you like and get comfortable with those. The idea is then that if you get the sound of those voicings in your ear, you'll pick the one that goes best with what your right hand is playing. Starting with the traditional "substitutions" is a good idea for this but it's good to experiment with voicings that might not even make theoretical sense. Sometimes you find the coolest stuff that way. For example, check out the chord that I'm throwing in there at the end of the bridge in that recording of Stella.
My playing would probably be improved by changing up my left hand voicings more. It's easy to get comfortable with the voicings you're used to when it sounds "ok." One trick I use to avoid that a little bit is to play the same voicing as I normally would but to only play one or two notes from the voicing. Normally if you're going to play a two note voicing you should do the third and seventh but switching it up can give it a more ambiguous sound. If there's a major or minor 2nd somewhere in the voicing try playing just those two notes for some dissonance.
>>66007078
>>66007442
I agree, thanks for the share
>>65993445
I'm a bit confused. Most of FZ's work is very tightly orchestrated. He wrote nearly everything out by hand before even picking up an instrument. He was foremost a composer.
>>66011686
Yeah I studied jazz in college. And I studied jazz pretty hard for about a year and a half to get into college. How long it takes to get to a certain level really just depends on how much you practice and how efficiently you practice. Starting at a beginner level you could get to the level of being able to make it through jazz tunes at a jam session within a year but I'd think you'd have to practice at least 5 hours a week.
>>66012338
Thanks, I guess I think that way when composing but never when playing other tunes. I'll definitely start working this in when I go through a tune.
In response to your two note thing, I always found it interesting how Herbie started using just the root and the fifth in his comping with Miles' quintet. It seemed to sorta switch the roles of the bass and keys in that it allowed Carter to not have to establish the chord as strongly. Gives a way more open feel.
>>66012511
I see, thank you! As of now, I am practicing more than 5 hours a day, at the moment, and keep pushing myself, so it is good to hear that it pays off, haha. I dont really play piano that much (more like one hour per day), but I play bass (and some guitar) atleast 5 hours each day. Excited for the future!
>>66012617
At some point if you stay serious about it you should consider finding an instructor to take lessons from. Even if you can only meet with them once a month it's still worth it just to have them provide their experience and knowledge and give you tangible goals and deadlines.
>>66012576
>how Herbie started using just the root and the fifth in his comping with Miles' quintet
Horace Silver did a lot of that too, but with a different effect I think. I can usually identify Horace Silver in the blindfold tests by how he pounds out open 5ths in the low register. Open 7ths sometimes too. Bud Powell also does a lot of open 7ths, it works pretty well when you're doing bebop lines.
>>66012885
Yeah Evans does a lot of 10ths in his solo piano, but my hands are only really big enough to reach the minor ones. I need to listen to more of more of Silver's stuff, I've only really heard the stuff from when he played with Miles or when he was heading the Jazz Messengers.
>>66007276
>>66007935
>>65992866
Such an amazing track. Ironically my favorite.
What're your favorite jazz singers?
Been enjoying Nina Simone and Chet Baker recently.
>>66016232
Nina and Satchmo.
>>66006837
>tfw first sounds like Corea-ish rumba
