BOB DYLAN GENERAL
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You are currently reading a thread in /mu/ - Music
You are currently reading a thread in /mu/ - Music
Starting things off with his best album
>>65844616
>implying
>>65844850
with the exception of Saved, his gospel trilogy wasn't actually that bad. i enjoyed it a lot
currently listening to pic related
why does /mu/ have so much trouble ranking albums? is it pure contrarianism?
>>65844903
I found the re-mastering done to the tracks on this release made them lose some of their warmth. I usually find myself listening to these bootleg versions instead, and going to the Bootleg Series versions for the few tracks not available elsewhere.
>>65844964
yeah, i feel you. i listened to A Tree With Roots a while back, and it was pretty good quality and probably the most expansive basement tapes release, save for the official release
>>65844996
I'll look that one up.
Favourite BT songs? I like Sign On The Cross, The Auld Triangle, The Bells Of Rhymney and All You Have To Do Is Dream.
>>65845039
Sign on the Cross, Odds and Ends I Don't Hurt Anymore, People Get Ready, I'm Not There, Rock Salt and Nails, and Waltzing With Sin all come to mind
Another Self-Portrait is easily my favorite Bootleg Series release.
>>65844964
Not only that, but the fact that they put recordings of the same songs back-to-back made it a tedious listen. I know that's the way they were recorded, but still.
>>65845076
All fantastic tracks. People Get Ready is like mana from heaven.
>>65845092
A lot of the bootlegs do that too. It's no sin to rejig the playlist to make for better listening.
>>65845150
I kind of like it when they do that, because it lets me see how the songs progressed and I can pick out certain version I like.
Does anyone else think the 66 tour is kind of overrated? For my money performance wise the Rolling Thunder Revue blows it out of the water.
>>65845204
not overrated, its genuinely iconic and his royal albert hall perfomance of Like A Rolling Stone is so vitriol it makes me shiver,
that being said, RTT is by and far better. Favorite song from it? I like The Water is Wide w/ Joan Baez and Romance in Durango
>>65844616
I heard bob Dylan was a asshole
I don't listen to assholes
>>65845204
It's so clear the toll the negative responses Dylan got had on his demeanor and energy. By 1966 the main pep his performances had were saying "fuck you" to 50% unhappy crowds.
Rolling Thunder on the other hand was less bogged down with pre-conceptions about what he should or shouldn't do. Plus I'm pretty sure he was on heroin by that time.
>>65845334
he was definitely on something
>>65845334
Nah to the second part, he was actually relatively clean by that point. Not sober mind you, but he'd done way more drugs during the original electric era than he did during the RTT. A lot of people (even biographers) think the crash was actually a cover for Dylan to get away from the public eye and sober up. Read On the Road with Bob Dylan if you want a semi-eye witness testimony of the RTT. The guy and Dylan had a falling out during the writing of the book too.
>>65845382
The divorce and all was the main thing.
>>65845405
i think he was a really bad alcoholic at the time, though
>>65845382
>>65845405
I think he was definitely using through Hard Rain and Rolling Thunder. He'd definitely been an alcoholic since the mid-sixties.
He started getting clean in the early eighties.
>Don't need a shot of heroin to kill my disease
>Don't need a shot of turpentine, only bring me to my knees
>Don't need a shot of codeine to help me to repent
>Don't need a shot of whiskey, help me be president
>>65844850
I like these albums, but you're fucking dumb.
>>65845333
I guess you could say you give them the silent (but deadly) treatment
>>65845460
>being a dirty heathen
>>65845273
Hattie Carroll
>>65845477
Trouble in Mind is probably one of his best song imho
Who's your favorite of the "next Dylans"?
(Whatever you consider to be a "next Dylan" is up to you)
>>65845717
Tallest Man on Earth, though I don't know if he'd qualify as a "next Dylan" since his music sometimes focuses more on instrumental beauty than the message of his lyrics. Also he's not very political as far as I've heard.
Are there even artists out today with a similar sound to Dylan that have the same influence or political relevance? I think Killer Mike's political involvement is comparable (campaigning with Bernie Sanders, speaking out against police brutality against black and brown people) even though he's a rapper
>>65845717
i dont really know of any next Dylans desu
rec some?
>>65846155
>Are there even artists out today with a similar sound to Dylan that have the same influence or political relevance? I think Killer Mike's political involvement is comparable (campaigning with Bernie Sanders, speaking out against police brutality against black and brown people) even though he's a rapper
Dylan's pandering to Marxists for a couple of years was purely a vehicle to recognition, he ditched it as soon as he could. The fact that you associate him with being a Marxist is the product of political propaganda.
>>65846438
Nah, that's a lie Dylan himself made up to distance himself from his old folk self. His love of Guthrie and related things has endured, he even donated his personal archives to the same place that's holding Guthrie's own personal archives.
>>65846571
He liked Guthrie as a musician and a pioneer of the American spirit, not as a political player (and Guthrie was hopelessly naïve in this respect). Listen to "Last Thoughts On Woody Guthrie" and you'll see how much Dylan was all about Woody's politics.
The fact that Dylan would denounce his political demagoguery in 1964 ("My Back Pages") and not make a leftist political statement for over 50 years makes you look stupid.
>>65846682
Yeah, that's why he made a song eulogizing a Black Panther in 1971 and also why he expressed support for Obama in two interviews and predicted he'd "win in a landslide victory". Ginsberg said Dylan was truly leftist for a time and he maintained friendship with Dylan for the rest of his life after he met Dylan. Was he too duped?
>>65846808
He also became an evangelical Christian and released "Neigborhood Bully" and "Union Sundown".
He's no leftist.
If Dylan's connection to the movement was completely superficial why would he have made appearances in documentaries about Seeger and Baez long after the fact? It's not like he couldn't have ignored said documentaries, it would've been expected from him.
Why to would maintain friendships with Tom Waits - an avid liberal, Patti Smith - an avid liberal, Willie Nelson - an avid liberal, tout John Prine - an avid liberal (who doesn't hide it in his songs) if his leftist leanings were completely falsehoods.
>>65846877
He's also since left that brand of Christianity and did decades ago.
These are all very public friendships Dylan's maintained too.
>>65846155
>>65846438
>>65846571
>>65846682
>>65846808
>>65846877
>>65846887
>>65846915
>trying to understand Dylan's methods
wew lads
>>65846915
The point is he isn't your "civil rights hero" Marxist cult of personality, nor will he ever fit a binary political cookie cutter: >>65846954
>>65846971
I never said he was my "civil rights hero", and I'd actually agree with you that he doesn't hold those views currently. It's an indisputable fact that he held those views at one time - and the biographers, even the ones that question how legitimate the motorcycle crash was agree with this.
Hell, he even spoke about being inspired by King's I Have a Dream speech in the same interview he denounced people looking too much into his songs.
>>65846682
>not make a leftist political statement for over 50 years
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HbKZYhZ3L80
>>65847095
And I don't expect a Jewish boomer entertainer to be some kind of hardline rightwinger. I was just refuting the ridiculous framing of Dylan's legacy as a "civil rights singer" and nothing else.
>>65847111
I'm sure Joey Gallo was a real lefty hero too.
>>65847180
>I was just refuting the ridiculous framing of Dylan's legacy as a "civil rights singer" and nothing else.
No, you were very blatantly arguing it was a farce at the beginning of this discussion. See >>65846438
>>65847249
It is a farce, I wasn't backtracking.
>>65847275
Sure, the girlfriends disagree, the friends disagree, the biographers (who wouldn't have a bias), everyone who would know disagrees but you know better than everybody else.
Makes sense.
>>65847275
My point is Dylan has held political positions across the spectrum, saying a rapper supporting a socialist is somehow "dylanesque" desptie no musical similarity is completely subversive and ridiculous.
>>65847333
I don't care about your confirmation bias.
>>65847362
It's not confirmation bias, it's just common sense.
Or what bit of study have you put into Dylan that Clinton Heylin, Greil Marcus, Robert Shelton or Christopher Ricks hasn't? Give me a reason to take your position more seriously than theirs.
>>65847431
I don't care about your list of biographers either. My point is, again, Dylan has held political positions across the spectrum and calling a rapper "next Dylan" purely because he supported a staunch socialist for president is perverse and stupid.
Or better yet, during the beginning of the electric years Dylan called out the folk music as has been and for old people. If he was willing to call out the movement why wasn't he willing to call out his former beliefs? He did when he was a Christian and he did again when he went away from that sect of Christianity.
>>65845039
>The Auld Triangle
That's the most relaxing piece of music that I've ever heard, it flows so smoothly for me, even though it's rugged and sloppy as fuck
>>65847475
I'm not the one who called the rapper the next Dylan, I'm just refuting the idea that his political viewpoints was a farce. Give me evidence of it. If you're not going to then you've just wasted everybody's time.
>>65847180
>I'm sure Joey Gallo was a real lefty hero too.
I don't know who the fuck that is but Hurricane *is* a protest song that criticizes racial profiling in a general sense which is inarguably a liberal stance. And Dylan actually did care about Robin Carter. He visited him in prison and did a benefit concert for him too.
>>65847555
i think Dylan just read his book and was moved by his story, not so much that he was doing as some sort of politcal statement
>>65847576
The song makes a pretty blatant statement about the way black people are treated (and treat themselves) in america.
>>65847508
The fact that he dissociated from his political-singer stance in the 60s and went on to do a full u-turn in the 80s isn't enough to show he was more than just your left-wing idol? I've said I don't think he's a right-winger either. Ultimately Dylan is not a political figure.
>>65847555
The mobster the song "Joey" is based from. My point was he was more interested in idolising "tough guys" who he felt had been wronged than making a political statement.
>>65847502
That's the beauty of those sessions. Check this song out: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P1vpdsEb_30
It's an incredibly strong and beautiful melody: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P1vpdsEb_30
>>65846155
your a dorable
>>65847610
Oops, didn't mean to post it twice.
>>65845632
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8a54Nz6aYYY
>>65847675
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AJWjUqWulkM
>>65847772
>not available
I'll try and track it down though, don't think I remember hearing this before.
Jesus. What a boring fucking thread. Let's lighten it up with some memes.
>>65845039
I always come back to Clothesline Saga - Dylan at maybe his most elliptical (and that's saying a lot)
leaving out the songs the Band covered, Apple Suckling Tree, Crash on the Levee, Don't Ya Tell Henry, Goin' to Acapulco, I'm Not There, Lo and Behold, Million Dollar Bash, Odds and Ends, Please Mrs. Henry, See You Later Allen Ginsburg, Tiny Montgomery, Try Me Little Girl, Yea Heavy and a Bottle of Bread, and You Ain't Goin' Nowhere
the whole thing is amazing as a document
>>65847814
i'll try to find it for you
>>65847814
go the fuck away, this is legitimate discussion
>>65847814
https://vimeo.com/107308378
does this work?
>>65847610
Again, I never said he wasn't more than just a left-winger. I'm saying he was genuine about his political beliefs during the early 60s.
He's also friends with Jimmy Carter and asked Carter to make a speech about him at one of the few awards Dylan seemed to care about as recently as last year, so yeah, he probably still is liberal at this point in his life, or at least lean's far more to the left currently than he does to the right. He filled the concert for said speech/award with not-so-secretly left leaning artists of his choosing as well.
I agree with you that Dylan's not as simple as being only a leftist/Marxist. I don't agree that it was a farce and his recent actions seem to show he has liberal thoughts. The AARP interview, which to my knowledge is his most recent interview paints this picture as well.
>>65847862
>go the fuck away, this is legitimate discussion
Did you mean to quote >>65847830? lmao
>>65847839
I was going to mention those more upbeat off-the-cuff type things earlier. I love "Open The Door, Homer" particularly. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GMeJHf05q-s
>HEY, DICK!
>>65847944
Yeah, that does. Very nice tune. I find it hard to believe Dylan ever fully gave up on Christ.
>>65844616
I once had a dream where I was arguing with my friend about what album was better, Blood On The Tracks or Desire. I got annoyed when they insisted that the boring Blood on the Tracks was superior, and I pointed out how fake and tame it was compared to the epics of Hurricane and Joey.
>>65847986
No. You responded to your stupid ass.
>>65847986
lol yeah i did, sorry
anyway, my guess is that he either was never really christian (unlikely)
or he just wasn't interested in that part of his life anymore (same with political activism)
>>65847982
He tows the line for what's expected of him. Why would he want to stir controversy in the overwhelmingly liberal press in his twilight years?
>>65848023
>i'll try to find it for you
Are you sure? Can you explain what you meant? haha
>>65848037
Stupid fuck.
Gayiohead/Grimes/Death Grips/Kanye West >>>>> Bub Dillon
>>65848052
how old are you?
anyone else think this album is criminally underrated? its one of my favorites. plus I think this album marks a big change in his lyrics.
>>65848052
Say that to my FACE FAGGOT >:+))))))
>>65848033
Here's the last verse of Red River Shore, a more recent Dylan song:
>Now I heard of a guy who lived a long time ago
>A man full of sorrow and strife
>That if someone around him died and was dead
>He knew how to bring 'em on back to life
>Well, I don't know what kind of language he used
>Or if they do that kind of thing anymore
Sometimes I think nobody saw me here at all
>Except the girl from the Red River Shore
This doesn't sound like someone who's abondoned Christ.
>>65848067
Mine too, superior to anything that came before. Wouldn't have got into Dylan were it not for this.
>>65848067
my favorite pre-electric Dylan album tbqh
Chimes of Freedom is one of the greatest songs Dylan ever wrote
>>65848037
Why Jimmy Carter though? He could've picked anyone - Neil Young, Tom Waits, Jack Nicholson (who he's asked to speak for him a few times and not so coincidentally has pretty damn liberal leanings) - why a president? That's as political as you can get without being political.
>>65848091
maybe not completely abandoned, but just abandoned being overtly public about it (maybe something to do with the universal panning of Saved and Shot of Love?)
>>65848067
I prefer it to about half the electric songs on BIABH desu.
>>65848091
Stupid fuck.
>>65848092
>album
i totally agree, one of his epics. Ballad in D, is a super underrated song too
>>65848066
Older than you.
>>65848150
yeah! i see a lot of hate for it but i just don't understand, its the only Dylan song that can be directly associated with a personal aspect of Dylan's life and its absolute heartbreaking
>>65848127
>>65848091
If interviews count as public then Dylan's been public about his Christian beliefs well into the current century. It's only been less pronounced in his songs.
>>65848164
please leave, you are ruining what has otherwise been a decent thread about Dylan which i've not really seen before.
>>65848127
>>65848198
I think not professionally making exclusively Christian music is not the same as denouncing your religion. Dylan is still a Christian and that is a continued inspiration to me at least.
>>65848134
>>65848164
I'll slice you.
>>65848150
He had a lot of regret about that song, which shows it's every bit as raw and confessional as it sounds.
>>65848094
I really don't know much about this incident, nor do I care to research it just to argue with you, but why get Dylan-inspired people when you can get the man himself? Sure he was payed enough.
>>65848220
>a decent thread about Dylan which i've not really seen before.
If we make more of these will people post in them?
>>65847986
hey, I've heard that song before by Louis Jordan:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BHQ8OXJfQnA
Quit Kickin' My Dog Around is another one of those hilarious off-the-cuff songs I haven't heard in a while - really fun stuff
>>65848067
now and forever the black sheep of the early Dylan catalog - only his debut gets even less attention. it makes the ones that came before it feel way too stiff - The Times They Are A-Changin' is a stark contrast of songs that feel like they're all trying to make some kind of Statement, while this one feels like it's deliberately trying to avoid that impression (except about the persona he was trying to craft). the first song says it all, really: looser and more intimate
>>65848350
>Quit Kickin' My Dog Around
That's another old 1920's cover! The original is gold: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bR9zAoOcJ0E
Perfect with some Buell Kazee and Harry Smith for a good whisky drunk (like I'm on now).
>>65848256
i beleive so, or at least i hope so. Dylan threads tend to be either b8 or comparison threads, and neither of those really serve to do the man any justice.
Saw him in concert just two days ago. Tempest was always a guilty-pleasure album, partly because it was the album released when I first started getting into him. Since a lot of the songs he sang in concert were from Tempest I like it even more now,
>>65848256
Dylan did speak at the event, he made the longest speech of his career in fact. I misspoke slightly, actually. Carter did speak for him but he was more of a person presenting the award to Dylan than someone who was speaking for him. Dylan and Carter have been friends for years and Carter has gone to dozens of music events. He's not a paid politician.
The speech Dylan gave is actually fairly interesting. It's the most "sensitive" he's ever come across as an artist in any public appearance.
>>65848433
>guilty pleasure
but thats one of his best records?
>>65848439
Well, it's fair enough. I'll look up the speech. I think I've made the point I was trying to make about Dylan not being a political analogue.
>>65848433
What do you think of the ballad stuff? I've had it panned to me but I think his Sinatra-type balladry is strikingly original in sound and beautiful.
People who don't get it seem the type that wouldn't get Sinatra or vocal jazz either.
>>65848472
For people just getting into Dylan, the more recent records are taboo.
Fuck it, here's the transcript:
http://www.latimes.com/entertainment/music/posts/la-et-ms-grammys-2015-transcript-of-bob-dylans-musicares-person-of-year-speech-20150207-story.html#page=2
>I'm glad for my songs to be honored like this. But you know, they didn't get here by themselves. It's been a long road and it's taken a lot of doing. These songs of mine, they're like mystery stories, the kind that Shakespeare saw when he was growing up. I think you could trace what I do back that far. They were on the fringes then, and I think they're on the fringes now. And they sound like they've been on the hard ground.
>I should mention a few people along the way who brought this about. I know I should mention John Hammond, great talent scout for Columbia Records. He signed me to that label when I was nobody. It took a lot of faith to do that, and he took a lot of ridicule, but he was his own man and he was courageous. And for that, I'm eternally grateful. The last person he discovered before me was Aretha Franklin, and before that Count Basie, Billie Holiday and a whole lot of other artists. All noncommercial artists.
>>65848497
The point I've been making the entire time is that I agree he wasn't a political analogue, I just don't think he was telling an untruth and nothing but an untruth in the early days.
>Trends did not interest John, and I was very noncommercial but he stayed with me. He believed in my talent and that's all that mattered. I can't thank him enough for that.
>Lou Levy runs Leeds Music, and they published my earliest songs, but I didn't stay there too long. Levy himself, he went back a long ways. He signed me to that company and recorded my songs and I sang them into a tape recorder. He told me outright, there was no precedent for what I was doing, that I was either before my time or behind it. And if I brought him a song like "Stardust," he'd turn it down because it would be too late.
>He told me that if I was before my time -- and he didn't really know that for sure -- but if it was happening and if it was true, the public would usually take three to five years to catch up -- so be prepared. And that did happen. The trouble was, when the public did catch up I was already three to five years beyond that, so it kind of complicated it. But he was encouraging, and he didn't judge me, and I'll always remember him for that.
>Artie Mogull at Witmark Music signed me next to his company, and he told me to just keep writing songs no matter what, that I might be on to something. Well, he too stood behind me, and he could never wait to see what I'd give him next. I didn't even think of myself as a songwriter before then. I'll always be grateful for him also for that attitude.
>I also have to mention some of the early artists who recorded my songs very, very early, without having to be asked. Just something they felt about them that was right for them. I've got to say thank you to Peter, Paul and Mary, who I knew all separately before they ever became a group. I didn't even think of myself as writing songs for others to sing but it was starting to happen and it couldn't have happened to, or with, a better group.
>They took a song of mine that had been recorded before that was buried on one of my records and turned it into a hit song. Not the way I would have done it -- they straightened it out. But since then hundreds of people have recorded it and I don't think that would have happened if it wasn't for them. They definitely started something for me.
>The Byrds, the Turtles, Sonny & Cher -- they made some of my songs Top 10 hits but I wasn't a pop songwriter and I really didn't want to be that, but it was good that it happened. Their versions of songs were like commercials, but I didn't really mind that because 50 years later my songs were being used in the commercials. So that was good too. I was glad it happened, and I was glad they'd done it.
>Pervis Staples and the Staple Singers -- long before they were on Stax they were on Epic and they were one of my favorite groups of all time. I met them all in '62 or '63. They heard my songs live and Pervis wanted to record three or four of them and he did with the Staples Singers. They were the type of artists that I wanted recording my songs.
>Nina Simone. I used to cross paths with her in New York City in the Village Gate nightclub. These were the artists I looked up to. She recorded some of my songs that she [inaudible] to me. She was an overwhelming artist, piano player and singer. Very strong woman, very outspoken. That she was recording my songs validated everything that I was about.
>Oh, and can't forget Jimi Hendrix. I actually saw Jimi Hendrix perform when he was in a band called Jimmy James and the Blue Flames -- something like that. And Jimi didn't even sing. He was just the guitar player. He took some small songs of mine that nobody paid any attention to and pumped them up into the outer limits of the stratosphere and turned them all into classics. I have to thank Jimi, too. I wish he was here.
>Johnny Cash recorded some of my songs early on, too, up in about '63, when he was all skin and bones. He traveled long, he traveled hard, but he was a hero of mine. I heard many of his songs growing up. I knew them better than I knew my own. "Big River," "I Walk the Line."
>"How high's the water, Mama?" I wrote "It's Alright Ma (I'm Only Bleeding)" with that song reverberating inside my head. I still ask, "How high is the water, mama?" Johnny was an intense character. And he saw that people were putting me down playing electric music, and he posted letters to magazines scolding people, telling them to shut up and let him sing.
>In Johnny Cash's world -- hardcore Southern drama -- that kind of thing didn't exist. Nobody told anybody what to sing or what not to sing. They just didn't do that kind of thing. I'm always going to thank him for that. Johnny Cash was a giant of a man, the man in black. And I'll always cherish the friendship we had until the day there is no more days.
>Oh, and I'd be remiss if I didn't mention Joan Baez. She was the queen of folk music then and now. She took a liking to my songs and brought me with her to play concerts, where she had crowds of thousands of people enthralled with her beauty and voice.
>>65848420
that guy really knows how to bark and howl! fun song. looking up what these guys did, I saw they did Bully of the Town, which I first heard covered by The Holy Modal Rounders - who covered another great song you probably have heard before, but what the hey, it's still one of the best singles I've ever heard: Charlie Poole's If the River was Whisky and Moving Day
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rL4J-XIAKvw
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sb-6A4IGRrw
>People would say, "What are you doing with that ragtag scrubby little waif?" And she'd tell everybody in no uncertain terms, "Now you better be quiet and listen to the songs." We even played a few of them together. Joan Baez is as tough-minded as they come. Love. And she's a free, independent spirit. Nobody can tell her what to do if she doesn't want to do it. I learned a lot of things from her. A woman with devastating honesty. And for her kind of love and devotion, I could never pay that back.
>These songs didn't come out of thin air. I didn't just make them up out of whole cloth. Contrary to what Lou Levy said, there was a precedent. It all came out of traditional music: traditional folk music, traditional rock 'n' roll and traditional big-band swing orchestra music.
>I learned lyrics and how to write them from listening to folk songs. And I played them, and I met other people that played them back when nobody was doing it. Sang nothing but these folk songs, and they gave me the code for everything that's fair game, that everything belongs to everyone.
>For three or four years all I listened to were folk standards. I went to sleep singing folk songs. I sang them everywhere, clubs, parties, bars, coffeehouses, fields, festivals. And I met other singers along the way who did the same thing and we just learned songs from each other. I could learn one song and sing it next in an hour if I'd heard it just once.
>>65848602
I'll read that when I'm less drunk. But seems like a fair debate, you have your side and I've mine. We've reached some kind of consensus.
>And if I brought him a song like "Stardust,"
I love this jazz sensibility he's coming out with more and more. His "Autumn Leaves" blew me away as a jazz fan.
As far as I can see he's making this as much about music as he can. I read an interview I loved around just before pic related came out, he was so appreciative of being treated and interviewed purely as a musician!
>>65848695
Wew, I'll end up listening to this stuff for days if you start me off. Thanks for the links.
>>65844616
did dylan help introduce anybody else to folk, roots, and blues music on a wide spectrum?
>>65848722
tbqh i wanna talk to Dylan and ask him all the questions nobody ever asked, talk to the man, not repeat the same questions to the legend
>If you sang "John Henry" as many times as me -- "John Henry was a steel-driving man / Died with a hammer in his hand / John Henry said a man ain't nothin' but a man / Before I let that steam drill drive me down / I'll die with that hammer in my hand."
>If you had sung that song as many times as I did, you'd have written "How many roads must a man walk down?" too.
>Big Bill Broonzy had a song called "Key to the Highway." "I've got a key to the highway / I'm booked and I'm bound to go / Gonna leave here runnin' because walking is most too slow." I sang that a lot. If you sing that a lot, you just might write,
>Georgia Sam he had a bloody nose
>Welfare Department they wouldn’t give him no clothes
>He asked poor Howard where can I go
>Howard said there’s only one place I know
>Sam said tell me quick man I got to run
>Howard just pointed with his gun
>And said that way down on Highway 61
>You'd have written that too if you'd sang "Key to the Highway" as much as me.
>"Ain't no use sit 'n cry / You'll be an angel by and by / Sail away, ladies, sail away." "I'm sailing away my own true love." "Boots of Spanish Leather" -- Sheryl Crow just sung that.
>"Roll the cotton down, aw, yeah, roll the cotton down / Ten dollars a day is a white man's pay / A dollar a day is the black man's pay / Roll the cotton down." If you sang that song as many times as me, you'd be writing "I ain't gonna work on Maggie's farm no more," too.
>>65848751
I would bet most of the people who've been posting in this thread for a few hours now experienced what you just described.
>>65848811
>>If you sang "John Henry" as many times as me -- "John Henry was a steel-driving man / Died with a hammer in his hand / John Henry said a man ain't nothin' but a man / Before I let that steam drill drive me down / I'll die with that hammer in my hand."
>
>>If you had sung that song as many times as I did, you'd have written "How many roads must a man walk down?" too.
I LOVE THIS
>I sang a lot of "come all you" songs. There's plenty of them. There's way too many to be counted. "Come along boys and listen to my tale / Tell you of my trouble on the old Chisholm Trail." Or, "Come all ye good people, listen while I tell / the fate of Floyd Collins a lad we all know well / The fate of Floyd Collins, a lad we all know well."
>"Come all ye fair and tender ladies / Take warning how you court your men / They're like a star on a summer morning / They first appear and then they're gone again." "If you'll gather 'round, people / A story I will tell / 'Bout Pretty Boy Floyd, an outlaw / Oklahoma knew him well."
>If you sung all these "come all ye" songs all the time, you'd be writing, "Come gather 'round people where ever you roam, admit that the waters around you have grown / Accept that soon you'll be drenched to the bone / If your time to you is worth saving / And you better start swimming or you'll sink like a stone / The times they are a-changing."
>You'd have written them too. There's nothing secret about it. You just do it subliminally and unconsciously, because that's all enough, and that's all I sang. That was all that was dear to me. They were the only kinds of songs that made sense.
>"When you go down to Deep Ellum keep your money in your socks / Women in Deep Ellum put you on the rocks." Sing that song for a while and you just might come up with, "When you're lost in the rain in Juarez and it's Easter time too / And your gravity fails and negativity don't pull you through / Don’t put on any airs / When you’re down on Rue Morgue Avenue / They got some hungry women there / And they really make a mess outta you."
>All these songs are connected. Don't be fooled. I just opened up a different door in a different kind of way. It's just different, saying the same thing. I didn't think it was anything out of the ordinary.
>>65848881
>You'd have written them too. There's nothing secret about it. You just do it subliminally and unconsciously, because that's all enough, and that's all I sang. That was all that was dear to me. They were the only kinds of songs that made sense.
What contrived people don't get.
>>65848751
absolutely - Neil Young was the first one that took my anti-country prejudice out behind the shed, and Dylan was next, and from there I was already onto Harry Smith's Anthology of American Folk Music, Chess Records, Sun Records... when Dylan mentioned in a relatively recent interview whether he listened to "modern music" he replied he was still listening to his Charlie Patton records, which sent me down into the Yazoo Records back catalogue too
>Well you know, I just thought I was doing something natural, but right from the start, my songs were divisive for some reason. They divided people. I never knew why. Some got angered, others loved them. Didn't know why my songs had detractors and supporters. A strange environment to have to throw your songs into, but I did it anyway.
>Last thing I thought of was who cared about what song I was writing. I was just writing them. I didn't think I was doing anything different. I thought I was just extending the line. Maybe a little bit unruly, but I was just elaborating on situations. Maybe hard to pin down, but so what? A lot of people are hard to pin down. You've just got to bear it. I didn't really care what Lieber and Stoller thought of my songs.
>They didn't like 'em, but Doc Pomus did. That was all right that they didn't like 'em, because I never liked their songs either. "Yakety yak, don't talk back." "Charlie Brown is a clown," "Baby I'm a hog for you." Novelty songs. They weren't saying anything serious. Doc's songs, they were better. "This Magic Moment." "Lonely Avenue." Save the Last Dance for Me.
>Those songs broke my heart. I figured I'd rather have his blessings any day than theirs.
>Ahmet Ertegun didn't think much of my songs, but Sam Phillips did. Ahmet founded Atlantic Records. He produced some great records: Ray Charles, Ray Brown, just to name a few.
>There were some great records in there, no question about it. But Sam Phillips, he recorded Elvis and Jerry Lee, Carl Perkins and Johnny Cash. Radical eyes that shook the very essence of humanity. Revolution in style and scope. Heavy shape and color. Radical to the bone. Songs that cut you to the bone. Renegades in all degrees, doing songs that would never decay, and still resound to this day. Oh, yeah, I'd rather have Sam Phillips' blessing any day.
>Merle Haggard didn't even think much of my songs. I know he didn't. He didn't say that to me, but I know [inaudible]. Buck Owens did, and he recorded some of my early songs. Merle Haggard -- "Mama Tried," "The Bottle Let Me Down," "I'm a Lonesome Fugitive." I can't imagine Waylon Jennings singing "The Bottle Let Me Down."
>"Together Again"? That's Buck Owens, and that trumps anything coming out of Bakersfield. Buck Owens and Merle Haggard? If you have to have somebody's blessing -- you figure it out.
This actually kind of pisses me off tbqh. Haggard put out quite a few great albums over the years. I haven't listened to enough of Buck to say if he's better than Haggard, but still.
>Oh, yeah. Critics have been giving me a hard time since Day One. Critics say I can't sing. I croak. Sound like a frog. Why don't critics say that same thing about Tom Waits? Critics say my voice is shot. That I have no voice. What don't they say those things about Leonard Cohen? Why do I get special treatment? Critics say I can't carry a tune and I talk my way through a song. Really? I've never heard that said about Lou Reed. Why does he get to go scot-free?
>What have I done to deserve this special attention? No vocal range? When's the last time you heard Dr. John? Why don't you say that about him? Slur my words, got no diction. Have you people ever listened to Charley Patton or Robert Johnson, Muddy Waters. Talk about slurred words and no diction. [Inaudible] doesn't even matter.
>"Why me, Lord?" I would say that to myself.
>Critics say I mangle my melodies, render my songs unrecognizable. Oh, really? Let me tell you something. I was at a boxing match a few years ago seeing Floyd Mayweather fight a Puerto Rican guy. And the Puerto Rican national anthem, somebody sang it and it was beautiful. It was heartfelt and it was moving.
>After that it was time for our national anthem. And a very popular soul-singing sister was chosen to sing. She sang every note -- that exists, and some that don't exist. Talk about mangling a melody. You take a one-syllable word and make it last for 15 minutes? She was doing vocal gymnastics like she was on a trapeze act. But to me it was not funny.
>Where were the critics? Mangling lyrics? Mangling a melody? Mangling a treasured song? No, I get the blame. But I don't really think I do that. I just think critics say I do.
>Sam Cooke said this when told he had a beautiful voice: He said, "Well that's very kind of you, but voices ought not to be measured by how pretty they are. Instead they matter only if they convince you that they are telling the truth." Think about that the next time you [inaudible].
>Times always change. They really do. And you have to always be ready for something that's coming along and you never expected it. Way back when, I was in Nashville making some records and I read this article, a Tom T. Hall interview. Tom T. Hall, he was bitching about some kind of new song, and he couldn't understand what these new kinds of songs that were coming in were about.
>Now Tom, he was one of the most preeminent songwriters of the time in Nashville. A lot of people were recording his songs and he himself even did it. But he was all in a fuss about James Taylor, a song James had called "Country Road." Tom was going off in this interview -- "But James don't say nothing about a country road. He's just says how you can feel it on the country road. I don't understand that."
>Now some might say Tom is a great songwriter. I'm not going to doubt that. At the time he was doing this interview I was actually listening to a song of his on the radio.
>It was called "I Love." I was listening to it in a recording studio, and he was talking about all the things he loves, an everyman kind of song, trying to connect with people. Trying to make you think that he's just like you and you're just like him. We all love the same things, and we're all in this together. Tom loves little baby ducks, slow-moving trains and rain. He loves old pickup trucks and little country streams. Sleeping without dreams. Bourbon in a glass. Coffee in a cup. Tomatoes on the vine, and onions.
>Now listen, I'm not ever going to disparage another songwriter. I'm not going to do that. I'm not saying it's a bad song. I'm just saying it might be a little overcooked. But, you know, it was in the top 10 anyway. Tom and a few other writers had the whole Nashville scene sewed up in a box. If you wanted to record a song and get it in the top 10 you had to go to them, and Tom was one of the top guys. They were all very comfortable, doing their thing.
>>65848959
Haggard is great, but if a guy disses you you shouldn't be compelled to think nicely of him. Sure it'd be a different tune now he's passed.
Great speech.
>This was about the time that Willie Nelson picked up and moved to Texas. About the same time. He's still in Texas. Everything was very copacetic. Everything was all right until -- until -- Kristofferson came to town. Oh, they ain't seen anybody like him. He came into town like a wildcat, flew his helicopter into Johnny Cash's backyard like a typical songwriter. And he went for the throat. "Sunday Morning Coming Down."
>Well, I woke up Sunday morning
>With no way to hold my head that didn't hurt.
>And the beer I had for breakfast wasn't bad
>So I had one more for dessert
>Then I fumbled through my closet
>Found my cleanest dirty shirt
>Then I washed my face and combed my hair
>And stumbled down the stairs to meet the day.
>You can look at Nashville pre-Kris and post-Kris, because he changed everything. That one song ruined Tom T. Hall's poker parties. It might have sent him to the crazy house. God forbid he ever heard any of my songs.
>You walk into the room
>With your pencil in your hand
>You see somebody naked
>You say, “Who is that man?”
>You try so hard
>But you don’t understand
>Just what you're gonna say
>When you get home
>You know something is happening here
>But you don’t know what it is
>Do you, Mister Jones?
>If "Sunday Morning Coming Down" rattled Tom's cage, sent him into the looney bin, my song surely would have made him blow his brains out, right there in the minivan. Hopefully he didn't hear it.
I hope it doesn't look like I'm spamming by making some of these posts short, I'm trying to fit them by topic instead of word count.
>I just released an album of standards, all the songs usually done by Michael Buble, Harry Connick Jr., maybe Brian Wilson's done a couple, Linda Ronstadt done 'em. But the reviews of their records are different than the reviews of my record.
>In their reviews no one says anything. In my reviews, [inaudible] they've got to look under every stone when it comes to me. They've got to mention all the songwriters' names. Well that's OK with me. After all, they're great songwriters and these are standards. I've seen the reviews come in, and they'll mention all the songwriters in half the review, as if everybody knows them. Nobody's heard of them, not in this time, anyway. Buddy Kaye, Cy Coleman, Carolyn Leigh, to name a few.
>But, you know, I'm glad they mention their names, and you know what? I'm glad they got their names in the press. It might have taken some time to do it, but they're finally there. I can only wonder why it took so long. My only regret is that they're not here to see it.
>>65848959
>>65849074
Bob goes hard on a lot of people in this speech, I love it! Shows that he's still got the kick from his early days
>Traditional rock 'n' roll, we're talking about that. It's all about rhythm. Johnny Cash said it best: "Get rhythm. Get rhythm when you get the blues." Very few rock 'n' roll bands today play with rhythm. They don't know what it is. Rock 'n' roll is a combination of blues, and it's a strange thing made up of two parts. A lot of people don't know this, but the blues, which is an American music, is not what you think it is. It's a combination of Arabic violins and Strauss waltzes working it out. But it's true.
>The other half of rock 'n' roll has got to be hillbilly. And that's a derogatory term, but it ought not to be. That's a term that includes the Delmore Bros., Stanley Bros., Roscoe Holcomb, Clarence Ashley ... groups like that. Moonshiners gone berserk. Fast cars on dirt roads. That's the kind of combination that makes up rock 'n' roll, and it can't be cooked up in a science laboratory or a studio.
>You have to have the right kind of rhythm to play this kind of music. If you can't hardly play the blues, how do you [inaudible] those other two kinds of music in there? You can fake it, but you can't really do it.
>Critics have made a career out of accusing me of having a career of confounding expectations. Really? Because that's all I do. That's how I think about it. Confounding expectations.
>"What do you do for a living, man?"
>"Oh, I confound expectations."
>You're going to get a job, the man says, "What do you do?" "Oh, confound expectations.: And the man says, "Well, we already have that spot filled. Call us back. Or don't call us, we'll call you." Confounding expectations. What does that mean? 'Why me, Lord? I'd confound them, but I don't know how to do it.'
I keked.
>The Blackwood Bros. have been talking to me about making a record together. That might confound expectations, but it shouldn't. Of course it would be a gospel album. I don't think it would be anything out of the ordinary for me. Not a bit. One of the songs I'm thinking about singing is "Stand By Me" by the Blackwood Brothers. Not "Stand By Me" the pop song. No. The real "Stand By Me."
>The real one goes like this:
>When the storm of life is raging / Stand by me / When the storm of life is raging / Stand by me / When the world is tossing me / Like a ship upon the sea / Thou who rulest wind and water / Stand by me
>In the midst of tribulation / Stand by me / In the midst of tribulation / Stand by me / When the hosts of hell assail / And my strength begins to fail / Thou who never lost a battle / Stand by me
>In the midst of faults and failures / Stand by me / In the midst of faults and failures / Stand by me / When I do the best I can / And my friends don't understand / Thou who knowest all about me / Stand by me
>That's the song. I like it better than the pop song. If I record one by that name, that's going to be the one. I'm also thinking of recording a song, not on that album, though: "Oh Lord, Please Don't Let Me Be Misunderstood."
>Anyway, why me, Lord. What did I do?
This version vaguely reminds me of Every Grain of Sand.
>Anyway, I'm proud to be here tonight for MusiCares. I'm honored to have all these artists singing my songs. There's nothing like that. Great artists. [applause, inaudible]. They're all singing the truth, and you can hear it in their voices.
>I'm proud to be here tonight for MusiCares. I think a lot of this organization. They've helped many people. Many musicians who have contributed a lot to our culture. I'd like to personally thank them for what they did for a friend of mine, Billy Lee Riley. A friend of mine who they helped for six years when he was down and couldn't work. Billy was a son of rock 'n' roll, obviously.
>He was a true original. He did it all: He played, he sang, he wrote. He would have been a bigger star but Jerry Lee came along. And you know what happens when someone like that comes along. You just don't stand a chance.
>So Billy became what is known in the industry -- a condescending term, by the way -- as a one-hit wonder. But sometimes, just sometimes, once in a while, a one-hit wonder can make a more powerful impact than a recording star who's got 20 or 30 hits behind him. And Billy's hit song was called "Red Hot," and it was red hot. It could blast you out of your skull and make you feel happy about it. Change your life.
>He did it with style and grace. You won't find him in the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame. He's not there. Metallica is. Abba is. Mamas and the Papas -- I know they're in there. Jefferson Airplane, Alice Cooper, Steely Dan -- I've got nothing against them. Soft rock, hard rock, psychedelic pop. I got nothing against any of that stuff, but after all, it is called the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame. Billy Lee Riley is not there. Yet.
>>65844616
As much as I like Fallen Angels and Shadows, I hope the next album is original material,
I wanna see some new songs from Dylan before he kicks the bucket
>I'd see him a couple times a year and we'd always spent time together and he was on a rockabilly festival nostalgia circuit, and we'd cross paths now and again. We'd always spend time together. He was a hero of mine. I'd heard "Red Hot." I must have been only 15 or 16 when I did and it's impressed me to this day.
>I never grow tired of listening to it. Never got tired of watching Billy Lee perform, either. We spent time together just talking and playing into the night. He was a deep, truthful man. He wasn't bitter or nostalgic. He just accepted it. He knew where he had come from and he was content with who he was.
>And then one day he got sick. And like my friend John Mellencamp would sing -- because John sang some truth today -- one day you get sick and you don't get better. That's from a song of his called "Life is Short Even on Its Longest Days." It's one of the better songs of the last few years, actually. I ain't lying.
>And I ain't lying when I tell you that MusiCares paid for my friend's doctor bills, and helped him to get spending money. They were able to at least make his life comfortable, tolerable to the end. That is something that can't be repaid. Any organization that would do that would have to have my blessing.
>I'm going to get out of here now. I'm going to put an egg in my shoe and beat it. I probably left out a lot of people and said too much about some. But that's OK. Like the spiritual song, 'I'm still just crossing over Jordan too.' Let's hope we meet again. Sometime. And we will, if, like Hank Williams said, "the good Lord willing and the creek don't rise."
And that's that. He didn't mention Guthrie, The Beats, The Carter Family, etc at all. Not bitching, just find it kind of surprising.
>>65849289
>Fallen Angels and Shadows
How did I miss this.
>>65849355
you haven't heard them? they're stellar! Shadows is arguably better, but Fallen Angels is just as good
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6S7nTLeMdAk
>>65849421
I've heard Shadows and a few bootlegs that proceeded it. Had no idea about this latest official though. DLing it now.
>>65849440
its pretty good, falls in the same aesthetic as Shadows but is a little bit more lighthearted
What're your guys' hopes for the next Bootleg Series volume? I wouldn't mind a compilation of his best recordings from the Never Ending Tour, though I know that's probably never going to happen.
>>65849484
Loved Shadows, sure I'm gonna enjoy this.
>>65849496
I'd want to see the Blood on the Tracks tapes, but who doesn't?
>>65847830
>Kanye West interrupts the match!
And no musical talent was added to the conversation.
>>65849582
What about pic related?
>>65849608
fucking roasted
>>65849645
thats an unofficial release, im hoping to see some stuff from the archives that may not have been seen before. its said by close friends of Dylan that he wrote at least 17 songs during the Blood on the Tracks recording.
Perhaps expand it to his mid seventies trilogy of Blood, Desire, and Street Legal
>>65849645
>>65849582
I wouldn't mind BotT but I doubt there's anything new to hear from it, or at least nothing potentially mindblowing. The Never Ending Tour supposedly has some of his best live performances and covers.
>>65849702
Don't forget Planet Waves. Dirge is basically a prequel to BotT.
>>65849735
1974-1978, lets see it happen!
is there a listening guide or flowchart for Bob Dylan? I want to start listening to him but I know nothing. Also, is all the praise g he receives because of his lyrics or is there another reason?
>>65849932
Start at the beginning and work through like an adult with a normal attention span, fuck "charts".
>>65849980
Eh, I'd still suggest start w/ Freewheelin' instead of s/t
>>65849932
Fully understanding Dylan's place in music is hard, but it'll all start falling into place the more you get into his music.
I recommend starting with Bringing it All Back Home, if you prefer the electric side move ahead to Highway 61 Revisited and then Blonde on Blonde, if you prefer the acoustic side, then work backwards to the Freewheelin Bob Dylan, and work your way through his folk material. From there you'll know if you like Dylan or not.
>>65850019
Stupid and impatient to not spend 45 minutes enjoying the proper progression.
>>65850028
Why would anyone not start at the beginning with an artist after sampling various songs?
>>65850053
because Bringing it All Back Home shows the two extremes of Dylan's career, acoustic folk poet and rollicking rock and roll star, there's no story or interwoven theme present throughout all of Dylan albums. It makes more sense to start with something accesible and move on from there
>>65850111
The acoustic side of Bringing It All Back Home isn't really that similar to any of his acoustic albums besides Another Side though.
>>65850111
I'd say you'd enjoy BIABH so much more if you knew what led there. Using it to "sell" his discopraphy as an "easy" route to guaranteed enjoyment is very weak.
>>65850146
you should really need to know the context behind an album to enjoy it
his early 60s stuff is not very representive of the rest of his career, and might out people off from diving deeper
>>65845717
Going back to this, Townes Van Zandt is easily my favorite Dylan student. Other than the fact that they're both (or have been) acoustic based singer-songwriters with a knack for poetry I don't see that much of a resemblance, at least not a big enough one to call Townes derivative of Dylan.
>>65850223
>you should really need to know the context behind an album to enjoy it
I agree, you can't enjoy BIABH properly without the context of his entire artistic development up to that point.
I didn't listen to it when I started listening to Dylan until about a month listening to his first four releases, and it was all the better for it.
>>65850279
would you recommending starting chronologically (ie, starting with the earliest bootleg recordings)
or by the release date?
>>65850406
Release date but for some of the bootleg recordings (specifically vol 4) make sense to be listened to in chronological order.
>>65850546
Oh, and go for either the Bootleg Series version of The Basement Tapes or one of the better actual bootleg versions. I never liked the 75 version myself.
>>65850406
Listen to the official releases chronoligically first, then move onto the bootlegs.
>>65850406
With the exception of listening to the actual Basement Tapes after Blonde On Blonde rather than the 1970s comp.
>>65850575
>>65850598
can we all agree the 75 BT were just awful?
>>65850598
Sorry to whine but I am curious about your thoughts on Townes, if you've listened.
Bob dylan is fucking shit but THIS nigga right here is the fucking bomb
>>65850708
literally who?
>>65850724
Fuck you Mike patton that's who !
>>65850647
Even the new Band songs on there I didn't like at all.
>>65850652
I'll listen properly at some point, but the songs I've heard of his aren't very substantive or idiomatic at all.
>>65850746
What songs of his have you listened to? If you mind me indulging in this, my two favorite songs by him are Lungs and Rex's Blues and I find both of them as moving as anything by Dylan.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Rdm8LItAHs
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OtmddbOydm4 (this is NOT my favorite recording of this song, just my favorite of the ones on youtube. Flyin' Shoes has the best recording)
>>65850871
I don't think too much of those as they're derivitave rather than in any kind of genuine country idiom. But I might find myself wrong so I'll DL a couple of his albums and let you know if these threads keep up.
>>65850955
I genuinely fail to see how they're derivative. Care to explain?
>>65850986
It doesn't sound like country music to me, or like folk music, is what I mean.
>>65851040
Oh, yeah, I understand completely. That's actually a common problem with his stuff - it's too country for a lot of folk fans I've recced him to and not country enough for those who like their hillbilly music.
Well, it's been legit nice talking to you even if we argued for an hour or two. I'm heading to bed. Have a nice night man.
>>65851088
You too dude, I've been up way too long. I owe a couple of his albums a fair shot, which I'll do.
i hope he dies soon, his career was over in 1968 and he's put out shit ever since
>>65852354
>shit after 1968
>Blood on the Tracks was released in 1975
fuck off
>>65852614
>he fell for the BOTT is good meme
>>65844616
Personally I love the New York sessions to this album so much more than what ended up being officially released (apparently, those five tracks were only re-recorded because someone told him the rawer originals wouldn't sell)
>>65852684
eyolf olstrem, who run dylanchords, makes a pretty good argument as to why the official release is best
>>65845334
>Plus I'm pretty sure he was on heroin by that time
I see people say this a lot, but I've never had source confirm in any way that he was a heroin addict in the seventies. I know he was abusing speed in the sixties and I don't doubt he ever tried H but his "problems" in the 70s clearly came from his divorce.
Was Self Portrait really that bad?
>>65853165
no, the only people who think so are new fans who want to jump on the bandwagon
>>65853165
>>65853215
I've listened to Dylan for ten years, that shit hasn't grown on me. Quinn the Eskimo is fun but that album is forgettable.
That being said, it's possible it got a lot more backlash than it deserved because people were expecting more from Dylan, which is not unreasonable. His worst album by far though is Down in the Groove.
