This is true modern Jazz. Thoughts?
Fuck yeah.
Old as fuck but check out Jazz Liberatorz - Clin d'oeil, a little more rap but the same vibes
>>65733429
It's actually just jazz-influenced R&B.
Check out Steve Lehman if you want some modern jazz.
>>65733522
>Steve Lehman
Looked it up...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=daLoh9RwkY8
Hey, it's exactly as bad as the '50s-'70s stuff. Every time I check out some modern jazz, it still has that unmistakable, uniquely jazz sophomore quality of the performers fumbling ahead with no idea at all what they're doing, reminiscent of high school. It's good to know that some things never change.
>>65733522
I know about Steve Lehman. But it still doesn't sound new. It really sounds like it was written by a guy who have a doctorate in music studies. He's good but I will always prefer to hear duke.
But this style of laid back, hip hop influenced jazz that does have a lot of improvisations sounds so much new and ground breaking. In a few years people will define this new movement and it will be one of the biggest music genres. It's already what most hip black people do as normal "jazz" has nothing really new to offer except oriental folk influences and it's dominated by white people.
This style of music is huge and going to change everything if it hasn't already. That's modern Jazz to me. That's the new bebop.
>>65733629
I mean--
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=86M2_7W70J4
--I understand exactly what happens in a jazz listener's brain. I understand his gullibility confusing chance for design, his attention span refusing to relate what one is hearing to what one heard just five seconds ago, his lack of discrimination resulting in latching on to individual sounds to the effect of forgetting to expect structure from the whole. But once you actually penetrate the jazz facade and you see how isolated each note is from the rest, the illusion of interplay is gone. There is no going back. When you first realize that no player gives a fuck to what the guy next to him is doing, you can't not hear this. For the longest time, I would believe the prescribed narrative, but you *can* see the reality.
>>65733741
...All you need is just a modicum of honesty with yourself.
>>65733741
oh this guy is back. hows it going buddy.
>>65733821
I'm doing better than jazz at the moment, thank you.
reminder
>>65733923
>general air of irrationality
Even though it's impolite to laugh at accusations directed at oneself, I just couldn't help myself.
>>65733848
have you considered a trip code pal?
>>65733949
No. What I have considered is spiting people telling me to take one by refusing to do it.
>>65733666
>But it still doesn't sound new
Oh really? So what other artists have blended microtonal music, spectralism, and jazz?
Meanwhile people have been blending jazz and R&B since the 70's. Jazz and hip hop since the 90's.
>>65733741
Why should one expect structure from the whole?
>>65733978
>Oh really? So what other artists have blended microtonal music, spectralism, and jazz?
I don't know. But that I think just proves my point that it just sounds like it was written by someone with a doctorate in music studies. To me that album sounds like a modern Out to Lunch with no interplay and much more structure. He just takes what dolphy did and makes it more organized and with a big band. To me it's not very interesting or new.
I probably exaggerated with straight up calling it "modern Jazz". But I think the foundations of this new genre who were laid by all the neo-soul movement but taken next level with Glasper is the start of a new genre that may either define Jazz again or take it further into the road of being a niche genre. Not sure what it is but it's new as heck and in a few years when we will be able define it there will be no questions about it being ground breaking.
>>65733429
i thought the vocals ruined this release honestly
>>65734315
Because structure is a measurement of being patterned and the cognition-central mechanism of pattern recognition is literally half of artistic enjoyment.
>>65734411
>I don't know. But that I think just proves my point that it just sounds like it was written by someone with a doctorate in music studies
What is your point here? Because he has a doctorate in music studies the music can't be good? Or maybe you're expecting it to not be good just because the composer has a doctorate?
You're not really talking about the music itself, you're talking about the cultural impact of the music. Sure Glasper's music may be trendy and popular, but don't kid yourself into thinking it's new or will make a lasting impression on "jazz history" other than for its notable semi-mainstream success.
>>65734584
>What is your point here? Because he has a doctorate in music studies the music can't be good?
No. But it does makes me feel like i'm listening to something written mostly from a study point of view that mostly concentrates on compositional techniques and theory in general rather than being purely artistic and trying to express something.
>You're not really talking about the music itself you're talking about the cultural impact of the music.
I talk about both since they're both very important.
>but don't kid yourself into thinking it's new or will make a lasting impression on "jazz history" other than for its notable semi-mainstream success.
And Steve Lehman who barely anyone knows about or cares about will? You're delusional. Steve Lehman is nothing more than an interesting artist.
>>65734856
>No. But it does makes me feel like i'm listening to something written mostly from a study point of view that mostly concentrates on compositional techniques and theory in general rather than being purely artistic and trying to express something.
Are you implying that the two are mutually exclusive? Have you ever considered the possibility that maybe advanced compositional techniques and knowledge of theory actually aid in the artistic expression?
I could be wrong but it sounds to me like you're implying that because a lot of study and technique went into making the music that it must be lacking in artistic expression.
>And Steve Lehman who barely anyone knows about or cares about will? You're delusional. Steve Lehman is nothing more than an interesting artist.
Where did I say he would? I don't think any jazz artist has much of a chance of making a cultural impact in the same way that jazz artists of the 50's and 60's did. But then again now that jazz has become mostly art music, I think history will be more likely to remember those who broke new ground, than those who recycled older styles but achieved some modicum of commercial success.
>>65735134
>I could be wrong but it sounds to me like you're implying that because a lot of study and technique went into making the music that it must be lacking in artistic expression.
Not at all what i'm said. Just that this specific album focuses too much on compositional theory and theory instead of artistic expression.
> I think history will be more likely to remember those who broke new ground, than those who recycled older styles but achieved some modicum of commercial success.
Except that style of Glasper is already influential towards a lot of young musicians and that this style of laid back jazz influenced by hip hop is only going to get bigger and getting more exposure around musicians. People are just sick of hearing the same phrases all the time and this is just the change that needs to happen to make Jazz flourish again. The thing about this music is that it's cool and cool people like it and I said that's one of the big reasons as to why it's going to get even bigger and really dominate Jazz. I don't see Jazz continuing in the same direction it's heading now. There's going to be a big change.
>>65735292
>Not at all what i'm said. Just that this specific album focuses too much on compositional theory and theory instead of artistic expression.
Fair enough. I'm curious as to what specific aspects of artistic expression you think were neglected though. You mentioned that you found interplay to be lacking in a previous post, correct? An interesting criticism because I'd say there was far more interplay on Mise en Abime than on the Black Radio albums. But I could be wrong. Mostly, I'm curious to know what other areas besides interplay you found Mise en Abime to be lacking? Can I ask how many times you listened to the album?
On a related note- have you listened to any of Steve Lehman's other albums? In my original post I just mentioned him as an artist, not specifically his Mise en Abime album. I'd hate to think you were judging his entire artistic output after listening to only one or two of his albums.
>Except that style of Glasper is already influential towards a lot of young musicians and that this style of laid back jazz influenced by hip hop is only going to get bigger and getting more exposure around musicians. People are just sick of hearing the same phrases all the time and this is just the change that needs to happen to make Jazz flourish again. The thing about this music is that it's cool and cool people like it and I said that's one of the big reasons as to why it's going to get even bigger and really dominate Jazz. I don't see Jazz continuing in the same direction it's heading now. There's going to be a big change.
You could be right about this, I guess only time will tell. Personally I don't think jazz will ever "flourish" again in the way you're talking about. I guess the real question is, would this really be artistically beneficial for the genre, or would it lead to a lot of "selling out"?
>>65735564
cont.
Finally, I can't help but think that people have been saying something similar to what you're saying for a long time.
Here's an article from 1993 (23 years ago) talking about the future of jazz and hip hop and jazz's commercial success with youth.
http://articles.philly.com/1993-03-14/entertainment/25948801_1_easy-mo-bee-digable-planets-doo-bop
>>65735292
Oh and one more note that you might find interesting.
Here's an article about Steve Lehman's current project (new album coming out soon) in which HE blends in hip hop influences into his own blend of jazz and spectralism. What's that going to be like?
>>65735717
forgot the article
http://blogs.walkerart.org/performingarts/2016/05/02/the-shape-of-doo-bop-to-come-steve-lehman-and-hprizm/
>>65733429
Reminder that OP's favourite bands/artists are Yes, The Mars Volta, and Zappa.
>>65735564
>On a related note- have you listened to any of Steve Lehman's other albums?
No only to Mise en Abime which is probably wrong to judge him only off of that. I heard it 5/6 times. But for the record It's not like I didn't enjoy that album I just don't think it's too amazing. And i'm actually not a huge fan of Glasper either but I really appreciate him. I just think he made something new and that people will only improve what he did.
>I'm curious as to what specific aspects of artistic expression you think were neglected though
The easiest way to explain it is that I didn't feel anything from that album except being impressed. It's just very obvious that he tries hard to do something and I guess it works but for me it's not enough.
>You mentioned that you found interplay to be lacking in a previous post, correct?
Only compared to Out to Lunch.
>or would it lead to a lot of "selling out"?
Jazz already sold out long ago.
You can't deny that Jazz is music orginally made by young, cool black people. When all I see in modern Jazz is white nerds and young black people doing hip hop I start to wander where jazz is going. Than you have Glasper and just that style of music that I can't define who combines both of those and I think it will just get improved upon and that in around 10 years glasper would be seen as a pioneer.
And btw I need to go after this post so I won't respond
>>65735835
Allow me, the person that poster misequated with OP, to confirm that I do hold those artists in much higher artistic regard than jazz crap, which fact isn't even much affected by the fact that that poster lied that they are my 'favourite' artists while what I said is simply that I like them a lot.
>>65735920
It's unfortunate that you're so image-obsessed when it comes to art and artists. I know this will come across as condescending but I hope you will outgrow that.
>when nobody responds to GG's b8 so he starts samefagging
>>65736052
I'm not more image obssesed than miles davis. You just can't ignore the cultural impact of music.
>>65736120
It's always funny when 50% of my detractors accuse me of samefagging while the other 50% accuse me of having an unmistakably incomprehensible writing style.
>>65736199
>You just can't ignore the cultural impact of music.
I wouldn't presume to, I just don't think it has any impact on the quality of the music and it's a shame to see people make assumptions about musical quality and artistic expression based on an artists image.
