>>65686650 old thread
Pasta:
An experiment in a pen-and-paper composing general, made for all the theory autists
This differs from /prod/ in that it is more focused on art music and music theory. That is not to say /prod/'s electronic music is unwelcome, by all means, post here! But follow in the footsteps of the classical composers of the 20th century who experimented in electronic music. But remember, this is NOT /classical/. Any art music, such as jazz, is acceptable
Post clyps, and please post accompanying notation so we can accurately critique your composing from a theory perspective
>Theory
http://tobyrush.com/theorypages/index.html
>tl;dr version
https://gumroad.com/l/tldrmusic#
>Basic composing
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hWbH1bhQZSw
http://composer.rowy.net/
>Score Reference Library
http://imslp.org/wiki/Main_Page
>Fux's Counterpoint
http://www.opus28.co.uk/Fux_Gradus.pdf
>Free Notation Software
https://musescore.org/
>Score Preparation Guide
musiciandevelopment.com/2016/05/16/how-to-prepare-a-professional-score/
>Orchestral Preparation Guideline
http://mola-inc.org/article/Music-Preparation-Guidelines-for-Orchestral-Music.pdf
>Orchestration (Rimsky-Korsakov)
http://www.northernsounds.com/forum/forumdisplay.php/77-Principles-of-Orchestration
>Orchestration Online Blog
http://orchestrationonline.com/
>Bandestration blog.
https://bandestration.com/
>Sam Adler's Study of Orchestration, 3rd Ed.
http://www52.zippyshare.com/v/w473HFOA/file.html
>Takadimi: A Beat - Oriented System of Rhythm Pedagogy
http://www.takadimi.net/documents/TakadimiArticle.pdf
>Teoria - Music Theory General Guides/Articles
https://www.teoria.com/index.php
>Musictheory.net - General music theory with accompanying exercises and tests. Great for practice.
https://www.musictheory.net/
>Succint but insightful theory up to contemporary techniques such as serialism and set theory
http://learnmusictheory.net/
And feel free to expand!
Original OP here (of this version)
I know it didn't really take off but it's nice that it's still here
>>65710668
What if we organized a peer to peer learning series in these threads, where some experienced anons could demystify this literature through practical lessons?
some kind of step by step program that teaches people how to compose in a different form each week could have a big impact and a year from now we might have the board making digital symphonies instead of vaportrap drone albums.
>>65710668
/prod/ itself isn't in a good health these days it's good to have /comp/ coming back to life for a few weeks sometimes
>>65710871
vaportrap drone is cool though
>>65710927
but imagine what it would be like if a few dedicated and knowledgeable people showed us how to do this other stuff, cause then we would get orchestral midi vapor.
>>65710985
>orchestral midi vapordrone
my erection is transcending the concept of hardness
>>65711037
I think it would be really cool. We just really need someone who's willing to hold the hand of dummies like me on this board and show us how to do this shit.
>>65710871
I can hand hold anyone really trying to learn, need we come up with some step by step program thing or what do you mean?
Like rudiments, harmony, counterpoint, form, orchestration, blah blah blah?
Looking for feedback from a knowledgeable composer or anyone who has a good ear for music to judge my stuff. Feel free to check my other stuff out too.
https://soundcloud.com/kludgybrain/muchachas
>>65710871
>>65711140
This is a good idea. I'm not all /that/ knowledgeable in music theory myself. I think we should create a new thread series.
Thread 1 - Basic music notation (Western style)
Thread 2 - Basic tonal, diatonic harmony
Thread 3 - Basic melody (ow should it be explained in tandem with harmony?)
Thread 4 - Basic Contrapuntal Motion
Thread 5 - Basic progressions (especially cadence)
Thread 6 - Writing periods
Thread 7 - Writing sentances
Then like higher structural forms
>>65711140
yes. I'm not sure how to break it down but ideally something that could take a total beginner and show them how to write a symphony, or working up to that from sonatas or the like.
I'm trying to think of a different skill as an analogy, this is kind of a stupid one but couch to 5k. idk.
>>65711286
maybe there's some kind of google docs or something that could help with this.
>>65711286
>>65711140
>>65711320
if we could pull this off it would literally create a new Renaissance on /mu/. maybe even all of 4chan if other boards adopt the same mentality to their skills.
I'm sick of this place being just an endless time sink and guilty pleasure. Lets make this into a place you are proud to associate with.
>>65711381
>>65711320
Alright, alright. Maybe I make a /comp/ YouTube channel, mabe we have a some live Q&A sessions.
>>65711286
Well I could begin writing a basic tonal harmony guide, just starting with the I and V chord, and we could have little composition challenges at each lesson (Write a I-I-V-I phrase in 4/4 in F major or whatever)
Theres already enough guides on reading music, i dont think a new one needs to be made
>>65711525
adding on, i think the problem with alot of harmony guides and things like that are the lack of examples, but i could easily come up with 10 examples for every basic diatonic chord progression or use just from say Mozart alone
showing how someone actually made something as simple as I-V, V-I or i-vii, vii-i sound very interesting would be a plus in my opinion
Especially when I learned harmony I had to do alot of extra work to gain a sense of how to meld it with melodic ideas semi-effectively
I'm not fully understanding the point of ties.
If you tie two notes together it extends the sound but why not just put the note the tie is equal to in place of the tie?
>>65711411
that would be cool.
i feel like there really isn't a good youtube for this stuff, at least not compared to all the EDM/trap/vapor tutorials and things on there.
Speaking as a bleep blooper pretty much anyone can figure out making a beat in a DAW just messing around. That kind of technology, the DAW, makes it accessible to creative people who otherwise wouldn't have had the focus to program a computer to make sounds like that.
>>65711590
Part of what makes it understandable I think is the ease with which you can make things, even bad things, quickly. Having exercises that translate into easily repeatable processes that yield a tangible result for the learner could be an aim to making the learning system successful.
>>65711525
i agree about the reading music. most people can learn to read music (although read slowly) without much trouble
These are just my rambling thoughts on the topic. I know a fair bit about production and a little broadly about music theory. I will gladly be a guinea pig for this project to learn and give feedback about what parts are difficult to understand so we can make them better as we go.
>>65711808
its just for notation purposes, for example, when a notes duration crosses a bar line.
Also, you may see something like an eigth note tied to a quarter note after, this is just standard notation, it makes it easier (rhythmically) for the performer to read (and its just the standard)
>>65711590
>>65711525
Thanks, that would help loads. Are you >>65711140 ?
Contact me at [email protected]
Peovide proof of identity with screenshots of >>65711590
and
>>65711525
We can work together like that.
I'm creating a YouTube channel and testing some screen capture software for live streams right now. I'll be working from MuseScore. I don't have a webcam and may not have a microphone, so communication during streams could be difficult.
Is any other anon interested in broadcasting on YouTube? I've no experience at all, but YouTube is being surprisingly helpful.
>>65712077
dubs
Alright, the stream should be up. Literally just a blank screen. This is a test of the emergency /comp/casting system. Please go to http://www.youtube.com/channel/UCqUEaKts92UIstFjrz9BfcA/live
And see if my stream is up
>>65712716
i see a black screen
>>65712795
thats the ponit
>>65712795
now it says offline
>>65712817
im getting it back up, testing the screen capture now
Alright, check http://www.youtube.com/channel/UCqUEaKts92UIstFjrz9BfcA/live
Screen capture is active, Musescore should be up
>>65713532
yes! it appears to be that way
>>65713583
Great! I closed the stream now, so lets start talking hours.
How many people here are interested, and what time can you catch the stream? I'm think of doing it on Sundays
>>65713625
I can do whenever but I'm gonna be away this sunday and till wenesday :(
>>65713726
Alright, alright. Anyone else? Composition teaching from /mu/fags, here.
I do wish to wait for >>65711525
to create a guide. I t wou.ld benefit both my teaching ability and provide a resource for /mu/fags to read
>>65713807
ya ill try to make something up im not sure what format though (ie where to post it)
>>65713861
what knowledge should i assume? All id need ideally is for people to know what a major and minor scale are, and understand what i mean when i write "5th of the scale" or "raised 7th" or whatever
>>65714086
I'll explain that simple stuff, don't worry. This guide can be meant to be in tandem with the stream. I wouldn't suggest anything beyond scales and note alterations, though.
If this takes off please add me guys, I've made a couple of OPs now and love teaching what I know, which albeit is now confined to Romanticism and some post-modernism but not much.
>>65714184
Totally fine with that, bro. Right, now, I'm the one with the YT channel, (I'm original OP by the way), and >>65714086 is drumming up some guides for the streams.
If a nice amount of anons, 5 - 7 maybe, show up fot the first stream, I'll be confident enough to make a nother one, and your help would be appreciated.
could we make a mailing list about this to let people know when?
>>65714402
Ok, you got contact info? I'd recommend a trip solely for this thread, makes it easier to know who's who.
>>65714578
>>65713861
im this guy (guide guy)
>>65714578
>>65714620
Yeah, contact info - [email protected]
Provide proof of identity through screenshot of posts or I'll probably ignore you. Not really much to discuss until more anons can clue us in on what time they can catch the stream.
>>65714493
Yeah, yeah, sure (how do we do that, I don't know)
>>65714756
just a group email telling people when the lessons are would work
>>65715049
Alright, then
So anyone who sees this, /prod/fags saddened by the fall of their thread, or contributors to /mu/ makes an album threads, anyone who wishes to know more about writing music, please send an email to [email protected]. When we decide on a time for streaming on YouTube,, I'll send the link and time to you and we can spedn 30 min - 1 hour learning about writing music
Also, if you are interested, please give some suggestions for a good time to start the stream. A day of the week, and an hour, preferabby after noon.
>>65715189
wait, hold up, I've fucked up bad.
I've fucked up so bad.
So sorry, I dropped the ball on this one.
The email adress is [email protected]
[email protected]
So sorry
Sundays are fine for me, as are Saturdays, and every weekday evening except Thursday. (CST) We should probably give our timezones when suggesting times.
I hope this live YouTube lesson thing actually happens. I'd be so happy
>>65716520
It might be very, very boring at the beginning. I'm trying to make it fully accessible.
ill finish a first harmony lesson tonight on paper, i gotta eat a burrito and work on a piece too though
>>65716618
Where would the starting point be at? I'm a fret monkey, but I know how to construct fairly complicated chords (extensions,inversions, etc). i can only read notation very slowly though. Will this be enough to get me started?
>>65711286
>Then like higher structural forms
you straight-edge clowns will never make it this far
>>65717315
I'm starting from the very beginning. Notation won't be touched that much (I'll probably label everything I notate), but that's because explanations and examples don't require complicated notation. It'll be pretty simple.
Even when we start composing, it'll be pretty simple
>>65711255
(The form of this was something like ABACBA, so I'll refer to the sections as such.)
Overemphasis of the tonic. The harmony could stand to be a little more complex, but that's mostly a question of musical style.
Way too much repetition, I mean seriously. That's the biggest problem with this by far. Particularly in the A sections.
Each A section is made up of four exact repetitions of a fourteen-beat-long phrase, with only the last repetition slightly changed (when the percussion ushers in the next section). There's nothing wrong with exact repetition, it can be used to reinforce a motif in the listener's head, but too much or too slowly and you soon bore the listener. You could perhaps replace one of the exact repetitions with something different but similar to shake things up (with this sort of thing I'd recommend the third exact repetition, as aaba is a nice and stable form for a section). In addition, there's no reason for all three A sections to be the exact same length.
Let me put it this way. The total length of the piece is 147 seconds (not counting silence at beginning and end). The length of the A sections is about 30 seconds each, and in total 91 seconds. So 62% of the piece is spent listening to the A section.
Each A section is composed of four exact repetitions, and each repetition is about 7.6 seconds long.
62% of your piece is a 7.6 second loop.
That's by far the biggest problem, and the rest of it I did enjoy. The B section is slightly repetitive, but it's melodically and harmonically more interesting. Honestly, though, the best part of the piece was the C section, it was quite well done. It really gave the second B section a new flavor, made it refreshing. It was nice and I liked it. The biggest problem with the B and C sections is that they're only 38% of the piece.
I'll be honest, it wasn't great, but there were a lot of things I liked.
A simple request for people to provide the score if they want critique, score is (for me at least) much more useful than a recording/rendering
>2016
>still using some crusty 700 year old music theory
diggity-shiggity
>>65718428
>not using it
why would anyone do this to themselves
I want to be the next Mozart
>>65718428
>implying literally every single musician who ever lived hasn't used it
that includes the tuvan throat singer who lives next door to me. he went to juliard
Would you guys consider this a successful modulation? Or is it auditory whiplash? I tried to go from emaj to c#harmonic min to make it more smooth. Or is it too close to the natural minor? Does it not really count as a modulation at all? Any feedback will be appreciated
I'd just like to say that I appreciate this thread. I haven't delved into much really obtuse theory, but I can provide some sort of help and feedback from 15 years of playing music and intermediate college-level theory.
>>65719109
think you posted the wrong image there champ
>>65719109
Fuck I forgot link
https://clyp.it/53mea2jt
If I compose on musescore for hours a day will I eventually be able to 'listen' to sheet music in my head and compose ideas from my head the same way I can play it out with an instrument? Or should I get myself fluent in playing sheetmusic on my instrument as the more important matter?
>>65719109
you dont /really/ modulate to natural or harmonic minor, you just modulate to "minor", they all make up the same thing: a minor key
I thought it was very good, and yes modulating to the relative minor is a modulation just like modulating to say, the dominant major
>>65719178
for
>>65719130
oops
>>65719178
sight singing is the most important
also check out this video and its successors
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bc4Ljc0Rroo
>>65719219
I've been running scales singing 1 2 3 4 5 6 1, should I try to make myself sing tunes with the numbers on the right notes next?
>>65719287
make sure you dont just do 1,2,3,4...7,1
also do 2,3,4,5,6,7,1,2
3,4,5,6,7,1,2,3
etc etc
then do jumps:
4->5, 4->6, 4->7...4,->4, etc etc
then from the octave above down
4->3, 4->2,4->1,4->7 etc etc
Always start on the same note! you are in effect singing all the 7 modes starting on the same note (middle C for example)
Then id recommend singing along with some Bach chorales, while playing a second or maybe even 2 or 3 other voices on the keyboard or instrument of your choice (hopefully you dont play a woodwind)
Eventually you should start hearing things as you read them, i didn't even notice i did until I was reading some simple Mozart melody and realized i knew how it sounded and had never heard it before, pretty cool. Definitely takes a long time to get to the level where you can hear 3+ voices at once though let alone whole orchestra taking into account timbres etc, I havent touched those heights yet
>>65719287
just pick up a piece of music, look at it and try to sing what you see on any syllable, then test with a piano
this obviously helps if you have music written for a choir, but at least stay with a single-voiced instrument if you can
you can try singing numbers if you like, but unless you know a decent amount of theory it might be hard to keep up with substitutions and secondary dominants and stuff, or you can try solfege if you want but fuck solfege
also listen to this guy >>65719428
https://clyp.it/2zglu3gt
babbys first piece. All feedback appreciated, the ending is quite suspicious, I really don't know how to end in a minor key.
>>65719548
you can end on a picardy third
sorry i really don't have time to actually critique that
>>65719428
>>65719520
Thanks for the advice guys
Is it relatively easy to get your sheet music played by the student orchestra in a college setting?
>>65719548
I really liked the melody, the notes go together well imo esp at the major section but the end is weak; the start was way more inspired at the end, I would try changing the rhythm or the theme or something
>>65719665
more inspired than the end*
>>65719548
Alright, good work, its got a couple parts, you provided the score and the sound, theres at least some semblance of melody and harmony, were living the dream here. I'm trying to fix some computer thing and its shit so I'll do this instead.
First a stupid nitpicky thing, in the third last measure that should written as a C# not a Db, because the next note is going up and the C# isn't really performing any function other than just being part of the melody, don't worry about that so much though. In general, notwithstanding other reasons, sharpen notes that are going to go up and flatten notes that are going to go down.
Anyway onto the main problem, your final cadence from G to Cminor, well in your case g minor to c minor, before i explain, do you know what the harmonic and natural minor scales are? And do you know the difference between major and minor chords?
>>65719548
Well of course it'll sound weird to suddenly modulate from V of Eb to c, and end it right there. Will critique more thoroughly in a minute
>>65719008
>all that selection bias
here anon, why don't you learn an actually substantiable theory instead
>>65720004
mathfags get out
>>65720045
>mathfags get out of a worship thread for elementary fractions
>>65719760
Yeah I understand major/minor chords and all 3 forms of minor scales. However I don't understand how I was in g minor in the last few measures. My goal in the slower part was to do a i-VI-III-VII chord progression and end on a c minor chord.
>>65719548
Pretty good for babby's first.
Get a copy of Johann Joseph Fux's Gradus ad Parnassus (or actually, just go to the link in the OP) and study it some. It's very constricting, and it's meant for learning to do polyphony and not a melody+accompaniment homophony like this, but some fundamentals are essential.
I mention it because the third measure starts with an Eb in the left hand and a D in the right. These two are a major seventh apart, a strange thing to start the Alberti bass with. Then the left hand goes to a Bb and the right to a C. These two notes are a major second (well, ninth) apart. It's really not helping the Alberti bass settle in. If the tonic chord being played there is essential, I'd rewrite the melody. But if you're more attached to the melody than the current harmony, you might instead have the Alberti bass be arpeggiating a V chord instead of a I chord, because that looks like the chord implied by the melody there.
>>65720412
Ok, so lets go over a few things I noticed. Good job overall! Keep it up.
1. Chord inversions. Inversions refer to which note of a chord is in the bass (lowest) voice. For example, in your first chord in the first measure you have a 2nd inversion Eb Major chord, meaning the 5th of the chord is in the bass. Using 2'nd inversion chords isnt really normal unless its for a melodic/harmonic purpose. Until you learn what those purposes commonly are, try to stick to root and 1st inversion position chords (root or 3rd in the bass, in this case the Eb or G). The same "offense" (as in, thing composers in the later 1700s (cough haynd & mozart cough) wouldnt have done really, which is what you start with when you learn) is commited in measure 5.
2. Voice leading, particulary of leading tones (7th of the scale). When you have a V or vii chord that is leading back to the tonic, you almost always want the leading tone, that is the 7th of the scale (D), to ascend to the tonic (1'st of the scale, Eb). This is one example of whats called a "tendency tone". It "wants" (as in the listener desires to hear, at least in the 1700s which is where we start learning from and immitating approximately) to raise to the tonic. (Another example of a tendency tone is the fourth of the scale in a V7 chord, it "wants" to fall down to the third of the scale)
cont.
>>65719548
(cont) >>65720453 which was of course meant for you, i replied to wrong post
3. Voice leading, concerning leaps. Some of your melodic leaps are a little odd. Once again, when I say odd I mean "wouldnt have really been done" in the classical era, which is again what were trying to emulate before we progress onwards in time towards more complex music. Walk before you run! Measure 9-10, a leap from Eb down a Major 7th to E natural (well it would technically be called a diminished 8ve but i digress...) is a little too..."harsh". Try to limit your leaps to a maximum of a 6th, unless they are a perfect octave. Also, dont have two large leaps in a row, especially if they are in the same direction.
A way to make melodies smoother is to "enter and quit leaps through contrary motion". What this means is: have stepwise motion UPWARD, leap DOWNWARD, then have further stepwise motion UPWARD again, or vice versa of course. This will "soften" the leap. This was done by you, for example, from measure 15-16, leapt down from D to Bb, then ascended gently up to C,Db (should have been spelled C#), D. Try to always watch this kind of thing!
Of course these arent hard and fast rules, you can do or write whatever you want. But especially when you're just starting to write, try to have mentality of "If im gonna go against this time tested strategy, i need to be able to tell myself a good reason why".
As for the end of the piece, if you wish to end in a minor key, you must raise the 7th of the minor scale your in to make the dominant chord major instead of minor. In this case, that would mean raising the Bb to a B. In this case you would also need to raise the Ab to an A but i dont want to confuse you with why as ive given you alot of info already (avoiding melodic augmented seconds).
Good job!
>>65718616
like if you want to be actually creative and not inadvertanly copy either smells like teen spirit or stairway to heaven
>>65720640
how the fuck would that happen? besides - just because you know music theory doesn't mean you can't be creative. You can break the "rules" all you want. You're just fucking spooked man
>>65720412
And this guy gave great advice too. Try to make sure the first notes of every measure are "consonant", like he said yours make a 7th, try to have them be a 6th or 3rd, or if not that a 5th, or if not that an octave.
If you look at mozart piano sonatas and write down the first notes of the left and right hand of every measure you get very elegant lines for the most part.
>>65720640
i dont see this meme ending any time soon
>>65720690
in fact you can't break the rules because you've already been indoctrinated
better luck next time pal
>>65720640
Yeah, that's a great reason to use music theory right there, but I was asking why would you not use it.
>>65720799
you would not use it because you would want to avoid the likely outcome of using music theory which would be ripping off led zeppelin or nirvane and then get sued by them
So when I do counterpoint am I trying to form chords? Am I trying to match up the melodies with inversions at points? What chord comes next?
https://clyp.it/oknzp0fd
>>65720770
like I said, you've been spooked because you're the one that thinks thats impossible.
>>65720852
again, how the fuck would that happen
music theory is literally inescapable. every single piece of music that has ever been written or will be written contains some element that music theory encompasses, wether it be rhythm, pitch, sound or silence. John Cage's 4:33 broke all the rules of music, and so did I am Sitting in A Room. Both the composers that wrote those were incredibly well-versed in music theory.
>>65720770
Yeah, just listen to this cookie cutter shit
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vqODySSxYpc
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xWECfXlToaY
https://youtu.be/juNxRYBWB9g?t=1m43s
all the same
>>65721250
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SN_5oUL_9xE
I just really like this song guys it's so weird
>>65721476
maybe youll like these
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ryiu2MYmmBY
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mkz-uhJSOz4
>>65721155
>and so did I am Sitting in A Room
I looked this up... What in the fuck. I don't get it.
>>65721988
I guy who thought music theory amounted only to Zeppilen and Nirvana probably wouldn't.
Also, nice dubs. Good get, man.
Anyway, Alvin Lucier, the composer, took a recording of himself, then played the recording back into the room he origaanilly recoded in, and recorded that, then kept recording the recording until, as he said, the "resonant frequencies of the room reinforce themselves so that any semblance of my speech, with perhaps the exception of rhythm, is destroyed"
That's it, really. Doesn't make any sense at all when held to conventional music theory, yet this guy was incredibly well-versed in it.
Still think that learning theory means you HAVE to follow it?
>>65722201
I'm not the anti theory guy. I thump the book of theory like the pope thumps the book of god. The only people who say music theory limits you are the people who only know the very basics
>>65722299
oh
sorry
nice dubs and trips
>>65718428
>limiting yourself to "this sounds good"
Dont you want more options? There are contemporary techniques as well as historical ones.
Also good luck ever having a professional musician play your music. They all read sheet music, which you wont be able to create if you dont know theory.
Theory also covers the limitations and possibilities of each instrument (orchestration) Its more than just species counterpoint
>>65722299
>The only people who say music theory limits you are the people who only know the very basics
Most often they dont even know that. They just assume that "music theory" is bad. Its 100% ignorance.
boomp
>>65721155
>biology theory is literally inescapable. every single piece of music that has ever been written or will be written will be used by the ears that biology theory encompasses.
why aren't you learning about how ears work instead?
just because music theory is able to describe those two songs in some ham-fisted (at best) capacity does not mean it was either used or bypassed in order to create them, you stupid theory-imperialist pig.
>>65722299
>The only people who say music theory limits you are the people who only know the very basics
frickin lol, this is coming from the >>65721988 poster who cant comprehend anything past even a tenth of the way into the musical hierarchy
lmao'ing @ ur life, babby-tier theoryposter
>>65722513
>implying anything outside of 'muh chords' will actually ever get researched
just oh my word
>good luck ever having a professional musician play your music
fucking lol, why would you ever limit yourself with human performers? at that point you might as well kidnap orangutangs from africa to throw their feces at trash cans. hell, at least orangutangs are probably even creative enough to write their own "shiit music" and not just read it like some trustafarian who paid a quarter million dollars more than he should have for something i can print for zilch after i type "license to play euphonium pdf" into yahoo search
>>65722984
>describe two songs in some ham-fisted (at best) capacity
Actually, music theory explains literally every piece of music ever written, whereas the best you can do is
>uhh, it made a sound.....then a different sound.....and it sounded kinda good......to my own ears
>limit yourself with human performers
Good luck becoming a competent composer/producer without learning theory
>>65723141
though, technically,
>uhh, it made a sound.....then a different sound.....and it sounded kinda good......to my own ears
is still music theory
>>65722984
Can't tell if this is bait or this guy is actually a failed /prod/igy fag who is actually this retarded
>>65723171
>to my own ears
got to break it to you but thats entirely biology theory, not music theory
>>65723233
Go start your own whale noises thread ya fuckin goof.
>>65723233
>biology theory
>>65722984
Go start your own thread about ear biology ya fuckin goof.
>>65722984
>why would you ever limit yourself with human performers?
They sound amazing, play with feeling and add nuances that no computer or synthesizer could ever hope to capture or reproduce.
Your post seems to betray your complete lack of knowledge on the subject at hand. Not really sure why you're posting in a composition thread when composition clearly isn't important to you.
>>65723233
Music theory is based on basic physics. Look up the harmonic series, a naturally occurring scale. It outlines all the intervals used in western music (and also some microtonal notes) music theory is based on these intervals, and therefor, based in nature.
>>65722984
>>implying anything outside of 'muh chords' will actually ever get researched
I don't get what this person is saying. Is this person arguing that everything other than tertian harmony is not studied? But then where did all of these other concepts come from if no one ever studies them?
>>65723141
wew lad i hope ur tunes are better than your misplaced ad hominem rage
>Good luck becoming a competent composer/producer without learning theory
why would anyone ever want to do this? robots will be better at this tthan any human ever could become well within the next decade
>>65723418
>They sound amazing
first thats questionable, secondly they make mistakes, and third they take too long to get there
>play with feeling
this is not a quantifiable metric within even your musical theory and therefore irrelevant
>add nuances
more like they add sloppy mistakes
>>65723623
>robots will be better at this tthan any human ever could become well within the next decade
>implying i do this for the attention like a whiny soundcloud faggot
its art. i compose because i fucking like to listen to music
>>65723623
>thats questionable
You've obviously never heard a live performer
>they make mistakes
You've obviously never heard a professional performer
>feeling is not quantifiable
Actually it is. look up Rubato. You may not be able to measure "feeling" but you'll know when someone is playing with feeling and when someone is not. Compared to a computer rendition, any live performer is going to have a LOT more feeling, even if the exact amount can't be measured.
I guess we can't expect someone as ignorant and blunt as yourself to understand the importance of "nuances" in a performance.
So tell us, what is your background, why should your silly opinions have any worth? You clearly haven't heard a live performer or ensemble, and you have no concept of what professional performers do, and how well they do it.
My advice would be to go to a top orchestra the next time one playing in your town. Enjoy the concert, re-evaluate your ideas on what performers are outside the band and electronic world, and then report back once you have a bit more of an idea of what we're working with here in /comp/
>why would anyone ever want to [become a competent composer/producer?
It might be hard for you to understand, but some of us actually do want to do this. Feel free to stay amateur for the rest of your life though, no skin off our back.
>>65722984
>just because music theory is able to describe those two songs in some ham-fisted (at best) capacity
Yeah, he isn't familiar with either of those pieces.
>theory-imperialist pig.
Music theory is the study of what happens and can happen with music. Even your opinion that music theory is pointless, and that robots will be better than humans at composing, is yet another contribution to music theory - just look up computer-assisted composition.
>>65723623
>robots will be better at this tthan any human ever could become
Robots are also better at breathing and eating so I suggest you give those up too
>12:16
>pathologically unable to stop listening to something for the first time mid-way
>stuck listening to I Am Sitting in a Room for another 30 minutes
>can still vaguely hear the r-r-r- in the r-r-r-rhythm
Have I basically gotten the idea already?
>>65723928
well, in all honesty, it just gets to be an annoying drone with a bunch of feedback. think about the method behind the recording, you know. how would a different room have affected it? more advanced tech, maybe?
>>65718332
Thanks so much for the constructive feedback. You're right that songs structure could be less repetitive. And the chord progression isn't anything out there. I do have other tracks with less conventional ones. I will consider changing the ABACBA order or perhaps like you suggested spice it up rhythmically. Some different percussion patterns maybe.
>>65723992
Alright, so it just keeps going like this forever, there's no point at which the next rerecording transcends beyond annoying drone into something completely different? That's mostly what I was afraid I'd miss.
Alright, fuck it I'm stopping it. I've had enough stuttering space whales for one day.
>>65724199
yeah, the joke about stuttering was a nice touch. Pretty amazing transformation
You must live while I sleep
http://solomonsmusic.net/brahmrls.htm
bemp
bump
straussbump
>>65728271
I like that pic
5AM
>>65728335
Composers back then really knew how to orchestrate
Just finished playing this, let me know what are your thoughts.
https://clyp.it/gry1x2j3
>still up
After I dreamt it went down.
>>65730012
Fuck, don't
>>65728951
What I think is that clyp.it seems unable to work on my phone.
>>65731441
Ow man. I hope what I wrote isn't shit.
>>65731479
It's strange, clyp.it used to work just fine. Vocaroo still works.
>>65731391
I said
How do you sit down, decide "I'm going to write a cello sonata" (for example), and go ahead and write it?
I can come up with nice melodies and harmonies, and I can plan out a multimovement work, but these two processes are completely seperate in my head, and if I try to get them to collaborate it almost seems like mixing oil and water. I'm not sure how to explain.
>>65732755
what your missing, my friend, is technique and practice
no worries i am too
>>65728951
Anyone got any feedback?
>>65734678
If the thread still exists when I get home, I will.
Could you upload it on vocaroo, maybe?
>>65734848
Here.
http://vocaroo.com/i/s0EcOIR1Alvp
complete newbie to music theory and composition here. what's the purpose of double flats and double sharps?
Sometimes i'm telling myself i should just go back to making shitty memexperimental
>>65728646
Saved
>>65734955
Alright, will listen soon.
feedback appreciated
felt like it ended too soon, but I cant think of anything right now
http://vocaroo.com/i/s0bCfMPmpvbJ
>>65736807
Same as the regular flats and sharps, except it's one more semitone/half step.
>>65737772
i mean, why not just use the note above/below it?
>>65736807
the purpose is to make clear what the function of the note is, lets say you want to spell the chord "Gb Minor"
What notes go into a Gb minor chord? Gb obviously, then a minor third up from Gb, which is indeed a Bbb.
Of course you could enharmonically spell it "Gb,A,Db", but thats not what a Gb minor chord is, Gb -> A isnt an interval of a third, but instead an augmented second
In essence, you want to make the function and meaning of each note as clear as possible to the reader.
>>65738064
thanks, this cleared it up a bit
>>65738096
np, same reason you wouldnt randomly start spelling C major "B#, Fb, G"
>>65737605
I like it, the transition from measure 4->5 is a little jarring, the second half is better than the first, better voice leading and stuff in my opinion, there are some spots in the first half where i find the harmony change a little abrupt, whereas the second half is mostly smooth throughout.
First half has an interesting bass though, dont think i didnt notice the F#,C,F motif being inverted to D,A,Db and B,F,Bb : )
bumping with pretty score
>>65734955
Piano seems slightly out of tune?
I quite liked the first half/third or so. The repeating figure was nice, sat pleasantly in both a minor and C major, and easily adaptable to all the strange keys thrown at it, keeping a sense of unity throughout. The harmony was really neat. The beginning was great, I'm a sucker for prepared seconds.
The second half/third was also similarly pretty nice, although I felt like the harmony seemed to start to get a bit lazy there honestly. The ending was nice, recontextualizing the opening motif in the new key after everything that happened, although I have to question the wisdom of repeating what used to be the dominant over and over.
The transition was probably the biggest flaw in this piece, understandably, it's always awkward to find a way to abandon this clingy accompanimental figure now that you're bored of it and want to move on, especially after spending so much time with it. But the transition's strange jitteriness felt really out of place. I actually found it kind of distracting at one point.
We have yet to decide on a time for the first YT stream. Should I go ahead and schedule one for Sunday - 6 p.m.? Who can catch that one?
Anyone wishing to learn better music /comp/osition and /prod/uction, reply please
>>65740853
that 6 p.m. US Central Time
>>65740892
that is*
To clarify, It is currently set at 6:00 p.m, US Central Time
I'm pleasantly surprised and happy this thread has lived to grow so big. I might as well post something and hope for some feedback. Not classical this, but remember pop music is composed too~
https://clyp.it/pifklu1c
>>65741293
The lead synth just sounds annoying too me, but that's a sound design thing. You could make that synth smoother, maybe with glissando. It seems to start and stop unnaturally.
But seriously I hate the sound design on the lead synth.
>>65741402
I guess the fact that you didn't say a thing about composition and only focused on the sound design of the synth tells me what I need to know. Never ask someone to audition a less than 90% finished demo. :p
>>65721250
Is there anything similar to Verklärte Nacht? I absolutely love it
>>65741889
Listen to gurre-lieder, his first quartet and erwartung
>>65741978
thanks, I'll check them out
>>65738312
Thanks.
To be honest I thought this would be worse, specially for the first part since I was just messing around with "how weird can I make the harmony but try to make it work" idea.
Looks like a nice place to make improvements.
bmmmmp
>>65745452
Thanks so much for the guide. Is there a place I can get the other twelve?
>>65745540
oh im not sure, i just posted it to bump
but i can tell you, relative to the any major scale:
ionian is no notes changed
dorian is flattened 3 and 7
phrygian is flattend 2,3,6,7
lydian is raised 4th
mixolydian is lowered 7th
aeolian is flattened 3,6,7
locrian is flattened 2,3,5,6,7
unless i made a mistake :^)
>>65739529
Yes it's out of tune..
When you talk about transition, what do you mean? Do you mean going from one chord to another, or one structure to another?
>>65746873
Well, there were two different main accompanimental figures in the right hand, weren't there? One in the first half of the piece, the other in the second half. I mean the transition between those, where the first accompanimental figure gets all strange and deformed.
>>65741889
Wagner's Tristan und Isolde is similair.
Verklärte Nacht is a pivotal piece in the 20th century output, the last piece of the late romantic period and one of the first pieces of the new style. Schoenberg pretty much immediately started experimenting, going on to his 5 pieces for orchestra (glorious pieces) and never really returned to the "late romantic but all fucked up" stage. Some Strauss sits in this kind of style, but its mostly vocal music or opera. 4 last songs, Salome, Elektra, etc. All great pieces though, worth listening for the orchestration alone even if you dont like the operatic voice.
>>65746965
Oh, I understand now. The idea was to kind of put the E on loop, as if it was played on a looper but I kind of screwed up on the playing.
The second 'strange' accompaniment figure was to achieve a 'rushed' effect, though I'm not sure if it actually turned out that way.
Thanks for your feedback!
>>65747189
>>65746965
I'm concerned about the harmony too, there were diatonic going on, but did any of them sounded 'wrong'?
The second part after 4:37 in G seems to be okay, but I'm too sure about the first part in C.
>>65709867
best thread ever. start when?
>>65748586
start what
>>65747224
The harmony sounds fine for the most part, that's what's most interesting about the piece.
There were a few spots that I'm 99% sure were just slips of the hand rather than weird harmony. As in the times when the E in the ostinato suddenly becomes an E# out of nowhere.
When did atonality start becoming a thing? It seems like after the romantic period, people started coming up with stranger and out of the ordinary harmonies.
Why did they do that?
> "- -" = 75 bpm, solemn-ish
>Ab - | G - F - E F | G - F - Ab - | G - F - Eb F | G - Ab -
Melody, a parallel progressive period I guess (perhaps the first half of a sentence?), came to head while in bed. Felt the need to write it somehow.
>>65749238
As I understand it, Beethoven's later work, like his Grosse Fugue, led to more complex harmony, and eventually, serialism. Schonenberg really solidified all that.
>>65749238
>When did atonality start becoming a thing
around 1905
Watch this documentary: it shows you the transition from late romantic to 20th century
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hUGpgXTcel0&list=PLM1yBQ3hQfENHX8W9uILxWsS-UelXjSU8
really good watch, I would recommend it to everyone ITT
>>65749328
Halfway through, I don't really see anything too peculiar about this piece, what's so 'hated' about this piece during it's time?
>>65721988
I listened to this while I fell asleep last night and woke up with a nose bleed. Coincidence? I hope so.
Bump for luck tonight.
>>65711140
>I can hand hold anyone really trying to learn
People who are willing to help others out like that are rare. in my experience at least. so thank you and i hope you're not all talk
>>65751022
He's working on a guide for the live stream we're having on music production
>>65751105
er - composition*
sorry I was browing /prod/
>>65751022
>>65751105
oh ya im working on the guide i just have a composition due to my teacher in a couple days and writers block is real
just starting with construction of chords, and I-V-I, then i-V-i with the raised 7th
You can compose basic phrases just knowing that.
I'll probably do melody writing guidelines too
Bumping with a section of Bartok's 4th String quartet. His quartets are some of the definitive 20th century chamber works
Why does parallel fifths work so well on Electric guitars with distortion?
Anywhere else it just sounds weird and weak.
So for the /comp/ learning thing
Is it going to be like just explanations on compositional techniques, or are there going to be examples and hands-on composing, as parctice, too?
>>65753743
Something with distortion creating harmonics i guess
It doesn't need to be electric guitars btw
>>65737804
Spelling dictates function. If you have a Cbb Ebb Gbb but spell it as Bb Ebb Gbb then it won't be the same chord in terms of function and spelling.
>>65753251
Can you post the whole thing senpai?
>>65754446
Both.
>>65753743
>sounds weak
wasn't it the other way around?
I believe the reason it wasn't "used" was because the voices sound so similar it was difficult for the singers, since your lines weren't 'independent enough'
in contrast, if you're not aiming for independence of multiple lines, but sort of want more 'power' to your idea, you can use them to get that extra emphasis on one line, which is why it works so well with rock and metal riffs and such
>>65753743
Pretty much this >>65754756 . Parallel fifths have been historically considered as having the quality of a single line where they lose independence. So it seems as though your perception of something not being "weird and weak" is rooted in the power of parallel fifths sounding like a single voice.
>>65753743
First guys right, with distortion the added harmonics make intervals less consonant than the fifth too muddy alot
you god damned slackers
>>65758569
it's the weekend
I'd like to think about music but my mind's too preoccupied by laze
>>65758569
what are you even talking about
>>65759366
i was just bumping the thread, jesus
>>65719548
Second piece. I feel like my baselines are pretty boring but I like it better than having just whole notes. Also I want my final cadence to have more of an effect because right now it sounds pretty much the same as measure 9.
https://clyp.it/102botga
>>65760028
The strong beat intervals between the left and right hands in measure 4 are most likely inadvisable if you're going for the classical aesthetic/style. You have Bb&A, D&C, Bb&C, and D&E, all 2nds/7ths.
You probably wanna go for 3rds/6ths or 5ths if you cant get those. At least try it out, of course nothing is written in stone.
You should try to make it so that if you only had the notes on each stronger beat (as in the 1st,3rd,5th,7th eigth note) it would still sound good.
The...phrasing i guess ill call it... is odd in measures 4-9 (to my ear),
I,iii,iv,ii,V,I is your harmonic progression, try adding 1 more measure of iv, and one more measure of I at the end so its
I,iii,iv,iv,ii,V,I,I, this will make it sound a little more even, youll have 8 measures instead of 6 in the phrase.
Heres how it would sound (In c major cause im lazy): https://clyp.it/l5jzp00s
You could add a ritardando to the last two measures, or employ a cadential 6/4 in measure 13 and then finally resolve in measure 14. (A cadential six four is a 2nd inversion tonic chord, where everything but the bass then moves to make a dominant chord, then resolve to a root position tonic chord).
These are just things to try and hear how they sound compared to yours : )
Its good to try to get things "technically right" and practice that just so you have that skill anyway, even if its not 100% whats in your head.
>>65762010
another.
>>65763227
another one
>>65754546
Sorry man, Its like a 24MB PDF that i scanned myself from a score I got from our university library. Mediafire is being a faggot and wont upload. scribd also decline it so, sorry about that.
>>65765424
>>65754546
http://imslp.eu/Files/imglnks/euimg/d/d5/IMSLP18950-PMLP12559-Bart__k_-_String_Quartet_No._4__score_.pdf
>current year
>doesnt look on imslp
Here's a period I wrote in C major
What do y'all think
https://clyp.it/0ym0uh4o
warning: it might be loud
>>65765588
hmm last I checked on imslp Bartok scores weren't even present. I didn't think they were public domain yet
Current progress on the fugue from last thread:
https://clyp.it/glrcxpvc
Added a second exposition in a faster character, dotted rhythm
Art of fugue score only partially related
Need some suggestions for brass heavy scores where the trombones get a lot of mileage. Trying to learn how to improve my treatment of trombones and tuba in particular.
>>65765834
>>65765834
like always im giving critique in a classical era/common practice context, which is in my opinion where to start. (im getting tired of saying this)
theres no point ignoring the habits of the old masters
The abrupt leap from C to F, a non chord tone seems a bit, and perhaps this will seem like a strange choice of words, arbitrary, i dont see why you couldnt change the first four notes to "C,G,F,E"
Either way, usually you want to avoid big leaps to non-harmonic tones.
measure two you have the climax to your melody reaching that high B, but then it doesnt resolve to the C above it in the second half of measure 2, which is a little unsatisfying, usually (almost always) you want the leading tone (7th of the scale) to resolve upwards if its in an outer (top or bottom) voice. Especially here because that B is so pronounced by being the melody's climax.
Obviously eventually you'll develop your accompaniment to be more sophisticated, not really worth worrying about yet though
The V-vi-V at the end of the antecedent phrase is a little awkward, id re harmonize that somehow (V-I-V, cadential six four, V-IV-V)
The last measure (and end of the second last measure), your little coda part was nice.
Good work!
>>65765849
ya its pretty arbitary sometimes, shostakovich is like a complete no go so idk
>>65766014
keep it up, still sounding good, still i cant help you : )
>>65710985
just listen to slowed down Wendy Carlos
>>65719548
learned it on piano. it sounds alright, surprisingly good for "babbys first piece".
change the bars leading up to the ending if you want to keep the minor or just change it so it doesn't feel forced
>>65766233
thank you!
checked
>>65766227
i havent really studied orchestration yet, but any late romantic orchestral works seems like an ok bet (by people who are known to be good at orchestration, cough rimsky korsakov)
also holst-mars obviously
>>65766227
Mahler Symphony No. 5 and 6 (any Mahler symphony really)
Strauss, Shostakovich, even Wagner are all good to look at for this
>>65749328
>Grosse Fugue
I really really really enjoyed this, fug, am I turning into a dissonistic hipster?
>>65728714
>>65728271
I always come back from composing to see stuff like this and it makes think I should stick to pop music
>>65767372
Dont feel too bad, those are the master composers at the top of their careers (usually age 40 or so). Even orchestral music doesn't have to be that full on, its just how they did it.
A lot of orchestral writing is doubling. See in the mahler score the woodwind are mostly playing the same notes.
>>65767243
> fug, am I turning into a dissonistic hipster?
Once you actually like the Bartok quartets, then you will be well on the road. Next stop: Schnittke Concerto Grosso
alive
What is it that makes Mozart so ridiculously good? Everybody can agree on how compitant he was, but what qualities in his music is it that make him so godly
bump for unfinished stuffs
http://vocaroo.com/i/s0Rd7k3k95AH
>>65771002
It's the same things that made Bach so great, and Beethoven, and then Mahler, and so on.
The musical genius that the great /comp/osers had is basically a kind of mathematical genius (especially looking at Bach on this one) where every and any musical maneuver he could accomplish with a deep complexity beyond the skills of anyone else (6-voice fugues, melodies that work inverse and pretzeled and reversed and every other combination, etc).
But of course it's so much more than that. It's the ability to write music that's accessible and enjoyable by the contemporary audience and push it a little further to be something unlike what people had heard before. Again, it's about this genius of musical maneuvering to push the boundaries into new glorious territory without sounding "wrong' or alienating. Mozart was able to write music that sounds "inevitable" like it always did and should have existed because it perfectly fits the expectations and sensibilities of what people *want* to hear but it didn't exist like that before he actually accomplished it. His melodies, his harmonies, his ridiculously "inevitable" orchestrations.
The study of music and neurology and psychology even in 2016 don't fully explain how and why music effects the brain the way it does - all we know is music is incredibly unique in the way it triggers responses from us as opposed to other non-musical sounds. The musical geniuses were able to tap that and put it on a page and have an organist, or floutist, or pianist play it to us so our synapses wobble in the most satisfying and unconfronting ways possible.
Bach was the greatest organist of his time and wrote music that people still struggle to play today, but his contribution to music pushed the bar way up, so now it's old hat. Mozart did the same, raised the bar, evolved music a bit further - taught the ear of the 1780s music listener to accept newer and broader things. Beethoven did the same in the 1800s, then Gershwin, etc.
>>65771473
this is nice anon. very relaxing, would be great to hear it orchestrated with real instruments!
here's a little ditty I did awhile ago when I was learning harmony. i was positive i was gonna compose myself into a corner that i couldn't write my way out of, but i managed to pull it off.
https://clyp.it/10lidytn
Writing a cello sonata, or planning to at least.
What should I do with this first movement? Sonata form is a given, but other than that, I dunno.
>>65766227
Rimsky-Korsakov. Anything by him, he was a total master. Also read the link in the OP.
ßump
>>65772135
use lots of m6 and m2
>>65774245
I got this motif from that. Think I'll try to at least feature it somehow, if not base the entire thing on it.
Traditional bed bump
https://clyp.it/glzes5m4
Ok here's my first attempt at something very simple using the fugue form. A subject, an answer in the dominant then a section of free counterpoint and the subject enters again in the tonic.
I'm not sure what people mean when discussing modulation when it's referring to counterpoint and it's just two or one voice. If you're doing this, writing counterpoint to suggest harmonic progressions, are you basically reversing the process of what people describe as "harmonizing a melody" instead you're "writing a melody to suggest certain harmony / key"?
It's easier to understand if there are enough voices for regular chord progressions, of course.
>>65774404
what is that tenor clef? why would you do that to yourself?
>>65774886
This is kinda cello writing 101
>>65774904
oh. only passed harmny 101, where do you learn how to write classically?
>>65774939
im probably not that far ahead of you, but orchestration manuals and cello scores
Ive seen it in tons of cello scores although i study alot of quartets
>>65774886
Basically, the tenor clef is for the upper-middle range of the cello, where you'll find the melodies that stick to the lower half of the A string and first position D string. This is a nice and comfy place for melodies, but it doesn't fit nicely with either bass or treble clef.
>>65774874
Actually going to bed now
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rLy-AwdCOmI
>>65771002
Economy of material. By the time you hear a theme, you've already heard it subliminally.
That and he's all over the show - something interesting is always happening, and happening flawlessly. Almost no exact repetition.
>>65774886
Cellists do read tenor clef, its not uncommon. If you're writing for a beginner its not really advised tough.
>>65772135
I wouldn't worry too much about sonata form, unless it helps you organize your material better, or extend your material.
Personally I start out with the idea: "What do I want to accomplish with this piece?"
Do you want it to be smooth melodies, or abrasive double stops, or a bit of both? do you want to use mass extended techniques a la lachenmann?
Personally I'd look at Brahms Cello sonata No. 1, and maybe the Benjamin Britten cello sonatas for some inspiration. the Brahms piece has amazing piano writing too.
Will you be writing for solo cello or cello + piano?
>>65709867
>been alive for 2days and 12 hours now
impressive
thanks to all the bumpers
i only lurk here but everything is much appreciated
>>65774875
Not bad, but your counter subject in the middle voice should start on the tonic note of the subject (first note bar 3 should be a C)
Usually a subject strays away from the home note, then only returns at the exact point where the answer enters a perfect 5th above (or 4th below)
Your subject does enter at the correct pitch, but because the counterpoint in the middle voice is on a D instead of a C, the interval between them is a 4th. This interval is very important and one of the few strict things that need to be followed in a fugue.
Look at the sheet music here >>65766014 You can see the answer enters (bar 5) a perfect fifth above, and that the subject holds off on hitting the tonic note (d) in bar 4, making the return to D feel more natural, at which point the answer enters at the fifth above, and introduces the new tonality.
Always a good idea to look carefully at bach fugues and even just straight out copy them into your notation software to try to work out how they feel to write. I would suggest doing this even just for the first 15 or so bars.
I have a great PDF on fugues, I will upload for you.
Also you subject is a bit fragmented, its usually a good idea to try something really simple, especially with your first few fugues. Keep step-wise motion and only use a few leaps, and only on safe intervals like 4ths, 6ths, 3rds etc. That will make it much easier to work with as you come to terms with the fugal form. Keep it up though! fugues are great fun to write once you get the hang of it.
Weddings march based on lohengrin wedding march for a little assignment, A section ~80% done (shown)
>>65776042
https://clyp.it/fgrheh1e
>the audio
>>65774875
>>65775965
Here's the PDF:
http://www.mediafire.com/download/f1zbff56mxufhce/Norden_Hugo_Foundation_studies_in_Fugue.pdf
Foundation Studies in Fugue - 40 odd pages. You only really need the first 5 or 6 to start writing your own fugues in a pretty informed fashion. Good luck!
Feel free to add this to the OP (Wouldn't it be a good idea to have a pastebin full of all the useful links?)
>>65776144
Thanks, I'm always collecting PDF and documents. College music websites have been an especially good resources.
The point about the countersubject entering on a P5 is something I didn't catch, so that's good to know. But the countersubject in my example on measure 3 is actually entering on B not D, so it's a sixth up to G there.
I guess I used that because it would be invertible. So you say it should be a fifth, does that cause any issues when you invert them, since you're then starting on a fourth?
>>65776442
oh yeah, whoops by bad. Its a B not a D, and a sixth interval. I'm dumb.
A fourth is fine for invertible counterpoint (or should be at least - Bach always uses a P5th above or a P4th below so I assume its fine)
Personally I would start again with a new subject after having a look through that PDF. Fugues are easy to start fresh, and often its a good idea to just try to write an exposition, then try to write another with a different subject. Eventually you will get a feel for what a subject should do and how it ties into the rest of the fugue, and then you can get serious and try to write a 1 - 3 minute fugue once you make a really nice subject. Writing the subject is the most important part, so spend quite a bit of time on it, and try out a few different one just for practice.
>>65776582
Cool. I like how everything is based off the one short melody you make for the subject. It's the same as why I liked learning species counterpoint. The hardest thing I've had with trying to learn music theory is I can never figure out what to add next that complements what I already have. But learning this way makes it easier to see by narrowing down the choices and forcing you to adhere to a structure.
>>65718428
I, too, used to be a 15yo sperglord who thought this. It's okay, one day when you realize that smoking a few bowls and aimlessly diddling your dick on a Casio doesn't really produce quality compositions, you'll realize that you are wrong as ever.
Just because something is archaic doesn't really give you an excuse not to learn it. Western theory has its limits, but even the most vocal critics of traditional music theory actually learned it first before going on a chinese cartoon image board and complaining about its limits.
Even when you are trying not to use music theory, you are still using music theory. The act of creating a tone by pushing a note on a keyboard is partaking in something which was conceived of by music theorists who decided how keyboards would be tempered and tuned.
>>65777752
Personally I just write the counterpoint parts by ear, as long as it sounds good, it is. Obviously try to avoid parallel 5ths and octaves, and try to have contrary motion and independent lines, but the ear should be the final judge of what works. Free counterpoint is after all the final solution of species counterpoint - essentially anything goes.
Thats what I've found allows me to write fugues more easily, not paying too much attention to the actual counterpoint (although if you do it will sound much clearer)
Bump of simple beauty
Anyone able to give a brief insight into Korean/Japanese pop music chord usage?
Like yiruma and stuff.
Anyone know any good resources that sort of introduce how to write various song types and give exercises, starting from small things like minuets then working up gradually? I've been messing with bloops and ambient stuff (fairly unsuccessfully) for a few years and I can read music and understand basic harmony but I've never really known how to structure a song or really write a song with a start, middle, and end in any remotely convincing way. I'd like to study and practice a lot of the typical classical song forms and I suppose I was wondering if anyone knew of a good book or online resource for this.
>>65776042
comfy
