Post your compositions here and get feedback. (Make sure to give feedback too, also the eternal bump is necessary keep this thread alive)
Pasta:
An experiment in a pen-and-paper composing general, made for all the theory autists
This differs from /prod/ in that it is more focused on art music and music theory. That is not to say /prod/'s electronic music is unwelcome, by all means, post here! But follow in the footsteps of the classical composers of the 20th century who experimented in electronic music. But remember, this is NOT /classical/. Any art music, such as jazz, is acceptable
Post clyps, and please post accompanying notation so we can accurately critique your composing from a theory perspective
>Theory
http://tobyrush.com/theorypages/index.html
>tl;dr version
https://gumroad.com/l/tldrmusic#
>Basic composing
[YouTube] How to Compose Music - Lesson 1 - How to Write a Melody (embed)
http://composer.rowy.net/
>Score Reference Library
http://imslp.org/wiki/Main_Page
>Fux's Counterpoint
http://www.opus28.co.uk/Fux_Gradus.pdf
>Free Notation Software
https://musescore.org/
>Score Preparation Guide
musiciandevelopment.com/2016/05/16/how-to-prepare-a-professional-score/
>Orchestral Preparation Guideline
http://mola-inc.org/article/Music-Preparation-Guidelines-for-Orchestral-Music.pdf
>Orchestration (Rimsky-Korsakov)
http://www.northernsounds.com/forum/forumdisplay.php/77-Principles-of-Orchestration
>Sam Adler's Study of Orchestration, 3rd Ed.
http://www52.zippyshare.com/v/w473HFOA/file.html
>Takadimi: A Beat - Oriented System of Rhythm Pedagogy
http://www.takadimi.net/documents/TakadimiArticle.pdf
>Teoria - Music Theory General Guides/Articles
https://www.teoria.com/index.php
>Musictheory.net - General music theory with accompanying exercises and tests. Great for practice.
https://www.musictheory.net/
>Succint but insightful theory up to contemporary techniques such as serialism and set theory
http://learnmusictheory.net/
And feel free to expand!
More links:
>Orchestration Online Blog
http://orchestrationonline.com/
>Bandestration blog.
https://bandestration.com/
Risky guide is top tier
Forgot this link:
>Basic Composing
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hWbH1bhQZSw
>>65686650
Does a recap of all classical forms exist?
It's probably somewhere in the links actually i should probably read them before asking the question but the thread is quite slow as usual so why not.
>>65688813
Hmm I don't believe I've come across one, however it's an interesting topic so I'll look into it.
Also, new links for the OP
>Boosey & Hawkes - Huge publisher of classical music. Lot's of scores for free online view (don't rip now) after signing up with an account.
http://www.boosey.com/
sorry for asking a theory question but can someone check to see if I named the chords correctly and tell me what the chord is above the question marks?
>>65689398
My guess is that it's a G7 without a third. Are there any other notes being played over the appergiation?
The other chords are correct.
>>65689398
Dm add4 / add 11 without the fifth
>>65689398
Good job anon. >>65689950 is right; it is most likely a partial G7; >>65689976 is an idiot.
Working on a chiptune composition, and trying to figure out how I could make the bass line more interesting. I mean it's just a fucking tone right now... But I tried really hard at making the counterpoint melodies and chords modulate in an interesting way.
https://clyp.it/oukb4kk4
>>65690132
>>>65689976 (You) is an idiot.
:(
>>65689950
>>65689976
>>65690132
Sorry for not including the both parts, but I think its G dominant 7 2nd inversion.
>>65690313
this is actually quite interesting and I like it. For me. the most interesting part is the closeness between the melody and accompaniment, and especially the bits when they make crunchy harmonies together. That said,
-I am not sure what you mean when you say "counterpoint," but for me the word has implications re: balance and particularly contrary motion as well as just nice harmonies. I would try and make the bass line oppose the harmony a little more.
-I am not sure that the melody at 1:14 is currently interesting enough to deserve a break of its own
-it might be nice to simplify the lines towards the end rather than simply fade, so the ending feels a little more natural
>>65690433
durr who would have thought that the melody could be important?? but yes you are correct.
>>65686650
what in the literal fuck is this image
>>65691912
Sonata-Allegro form. It's self-explanatory.
>>65686650
Where can I learn about the standard forms (is that what its called) in music? I keep hearing terms like rounds, bouree, nocturne, canon, etc and dont know what any of it means.
>>65692214
you just need any music encyclopedia for that
Small draft I made in musescore a few weeks ago, advice is welcomed.
https://clyp.it/xanpsvuq
friendly reminder that if youre composing before studying bach's chorales and mozart's piano sonatas youre officially a clown
>>65692106
>'episode'
>'recapitulation'
>fucking macaronis all over the place
>self explanatory
>>65690313
The piece is fairly completely homophonic, but a couple ways to bring out the independance of the voices would be to:
1. put those arpeggios (or the main melody) in a different register (note range), right now theyre running into each other and "crossing" and the ear sometimes loses which one is which
2. try to watch your voice leading between the bass note of the arpeggios and the accented (first note of the bar for example) notes of the melody
Sorry if this is a little unclear, i dont know how much jargon you know, I can explain further heh...
>>65693782
its a like a song structure but instead of "verse chorus verse" its "theme A, theme B, recapitulation etc" use wikipedia If you want to know what sonata form is
>>65686753
>tfw you know you have this card packed away somewhere
those were the days... that bad boy was my soundtrack for a band trip to NYC
https://archive.org/details/cu31924017088976
An earlier part of this PDF discusses various classical forms fairly well
>>65688813
Just get a book/PDF on form
Wallace Berry's "Form in Music" is a standard
god damn guys, where can i learn how to compose like the renaissance gods? (ockeghem, rore, morales)
>>65695475
Fux's Gradus Ad Parnassum, or Jeppesen's Counterpoint.
Score study is also your friend. look at their scores, work out what they're doing, copy, learn, internalize.
>>65693758
shouldn't those II's be marked as V/V?
wrote a piano sonata recently, tried to rip off debussy's arabesque 1 but it just sounds like piano music from some cheesy JRPG. what do I do fellas?
>>65695888
yeah you know something aint right when a bach score has no applied chords in it. He used them almost every second chord. They're definitely V/Vs
>>65695888
>>65695928
Its not my analysis, and i would definately write V/V
to be fair though he has the dominant harmony and a "V" literally right there guys...
>>65695974
Still, Bach doesn't "Substitute" a scale degree unless its a picardy third at the end of the piece. He's all about applied chords. You should only need to write the chords in a different key if he's actually modulating like pic related.
>>65696028
I agree.
Should this general be rebranded as something like "Composition/analysis/theory" or something of that sort? I feel as though that would attract more people but maybe not what we want
>>65696269
composition general is fine.
theory and analysis is part of the research for undertaking composition.
The issue isn't attracting people, its that most people on /mu/ dont write classical and dont know the first thing about theory or written music
>>65696568
I just mean many people may be more interested hearing "theory" than "composition" even if they don't write classical, i like people asking theory questions even if they're into/writing popular music
Eh, doesn't matter that much to me though. I definitely don't compose because of the public overwhelming support for the practice
>haven't come to /mu/ in a week
>find that this general still exists
>38 posts, only 1 bump so far
Working on another fugue (finished the last one) Going for more of a tranquil fugue this time. I MIDI recorded myself playing the first few parts so it sounds a bit more natural.
Actually used some applied chords this time in the episode (the marker at 36 seconds shows the applied chord) everything sounds so much clearer when you use actual chords instead of just going by ear all the time. There's a link to my soundcloud in the clyp.it description where you can hear the last finished fugue (which I posted part by part a few /comp/ threads ago)
https://clyp.it/53qo2tqt
Also It would be cool to have a link to the old thread in the OP.
>>65697570
cool subject! I really like it, cant offer tips though, youre ahead of me compositionally.
>>65697669
Well I've been writing music for 16 years, and fugues explicitly for 10 months, so I'd hope I'm making progress!
The subject really is the key, without a good subject, the rest of the fugue will suffer.
Bach's subjects are so good he can use them in strict inversions and retrogrades to create counterpoint for themselves! Now that's skill
This is a work in progress, composed in FL Studio 12.
I have no talent and very little skill. None of this was played - just composed in FL Studio with the piano roll. Just mashing buttons and going with what sounds good in my head.
Dunno where I want to go with this, maybe more jazzy but I get stuck when I try to get too complicated and I can't run it too fast because it's kind of more chill than something really driving.
Like I said, in progress. Any input is appreciated.
https://clyp.it/mbybmqzd
I cant find /prod/ so ill post here
Have $1k-1.5k to spend on a hardware polyphonic synth, is the Virus TI(2) still the top dog or has it been surpassed?
Can be Analogue or VA, just want the main peice of my setup with loads of knobs because im sick of menu diving
I have my Waldorf Pulse 2 for my Analogue itch
>>65697889
>I cant find /prod/ so ill post here
nope
>>65686650
if any electronic music friendos want to chat please hit up our discord chat.
https://discord.gg/0xb3am3CKgZNxjdZa
lots of music circlejerks and other fun stuff.
>>65697942
>https://discord.gg/0xb3am3CKgZNxjdZa
Link expired m8
>>65697988
>>65697942
not sure why it got shoa'd but here is a better one.
https://discordapp.com/invite/0xb3am3CKgZwJbhj
>>65692764
I enjoyed it.
A lot of things seemed rather, I'm not sure how to say it, motivically disproportioned? Out of whack? At the beginning, for instance, you have this tritone figure in the bass - it repeats 4 times, and solidifies itself into the listener's mind. Then in measure 3 a new figure shows up: a block chord detailing the sonority implied by the bass. This new block chord motif is introduced quite nicely, but while the listener previously had 4 repetitions before a new motif showed up, here the motif is abandoned immediately in measure four for another new motif, one a lot more involved, lasting longer, with a quicker rhythm, even in a separate scale from everything that had come before. The motif that comes in at measure four is oddly sudden compared to the other motives introduced so far, I'm trying to say.
I really liked measure seven through ten/eleven or so, motivically. First off, just the repetition of the motif at measure four is nice, but it's also changed rather interestingly with the way the voices trade off the eighth note runs. Finally the transition back to the block chord motif is quite nice. The way the constant eighth notes only stopped on the last beat of measure eight, while the "soprano" (I guess?) does something oddly lyrical, jumping up a fourth and then down a (diminished) fifth, it all came together nicely.
I'd say more but I spent way too long overthinking this
Here, the beginning of this sort of demonstrates some things I was saying: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bj9RcWN3b9A
Mostly that's just my excuse to post this
>>65697570
>Also It would be cool to have a link to the old thread in the OP
seconding
bump
I don't know where else to ask,
but can someone direct me to a site or
program that can teach me how to play piano
more efficiently?
>>65698369
Thanks a lot for your advice, it's greatly appreciated.
I get what you're saying, "motivically disproportioned" was actually a great way of saying it. While composing it, I really wasn't paying attention to that, and as a consequence, it shows. I really need to read more about form and this kind of stuff.
By the way, I really liked the sonata you posted, there's a lot of interesting things going on.
Thanks again.
What do you guys think of this?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9CZdPji4GJk
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hw2fPn96R0Q
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fXKPMDJ6Fz4
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YRs5UXSO3vo
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_ZdJNezxGBE
>>65699450
Pretty boring and simple. Ok background music
>>65699450
Personally I think your music is going for 'feeling' or a sensation of some kind, which I don't like.
The melodies go nowhere and your improvised parts are strangled and constrained to only a couple of different notes because your baseline never evolves to open up potential for counterpoint.
And you've got sticky fingers, I know you're using a cheap instrument that's hard to play, but you should be lighter than air, no hesitation or sliding.
And your tempo is of because of this.
I suggest learning some bach pieces like the bouree or ricercar a 6 or the fugue in g minor.
>>65700021
what about this?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DTtlYwTaUN4
>>65700078
>your baseline never evolves to open up potential for counterpoint.
what do you mean by this?
>>65699450
It's fucking 2 AM, so only listened to the first link.
Nice and quaint. Interesting harmonic progressions. It's a bit odd to say, but there was something just so cute about the harmony here. I rather liked the way the V7 led to the subdominant in the bass but other voices on scale degrees 5 and 1, and then the bass just resolved like that. Blending elements of plagal and authentic cadences is always nice in my opinion. Careful using V7 so close to each other, though, especially when neither of them lead to the tonic, it cheapens the effect of it. Finally, the bass's motif was just begging to be used to accelerate the harmonic rhythm at the end (the second note could be a different note instead of the same note, I mean). It seemed kind of wasted.
Good night, please survive the night.
>>65700119
>please survive the night
I'm referring to the thread
Good night for real now
>>65700079
Bad singing, poor wordsetting, boring chord progression. Sorry, its just not very good from a composition standpoint.
I used to write a lot of guitar / voice songs. This is probably one of the better ones:
https://soundcloud.com/psllbof/the-hearts-already-still
Listening back there's a bit too much reverb and my voice was never that good. Also literally recorded on a cell phone.
>>65700119
I didn't understand anything about your post but thanks for the feedback anyway!
t. guy who never took a lesson or read a book about music.
>>65700173
Anytime's a good time to learn
Alright good night for real for real this time
>>65700210
good night
>>65700098
Your dominant themes are too simple, you should expound them into longer melodic lines to allow for extemporation and evolution, as well as an overall more meaningful piece of music.
As it is, some of those songs just idly sway from one chord to another and back again.
In your first video I think those little arpeggios should not have the same note on each side of them.
>>65700345
ok, thanks.
>>65700166
do you work in music?
>>65700461
I occasionally do paid film soundtracks, but no, I have a non-music day job and just write music in my spare time. I did major in composition at university which does help.
>>65700649
Ok.
Thanks for feedback.
>>65696028
False. I got one exemple of substitution in Bach's works.
>>65700827
Just keep at it m8, songwriting takes practice. I Wrote many many shitty songs before I started improving. Your song was passable, just needs some more interesting wordsetting - having a vocal melody that compliments the guitar instead of copying it. Dont be afraid to let your vocal lines overlap into the next chords, they dont have to mirror the guitar playing at all times.
I've found it very useful to record the guitar parts first then improvise singing over top, while recording yourself. Then you can go back and see if it works, and discover new ways to sing the words. Keep doing this over and over until the line your singing fits really well with the music. Setting the words to music can take quite a while, but its well worth it if you put in the effort to get each line sounding great.
>>65700880
wouldn't it be more "mixture" than "scale degree substitution"
Also raising leading notes doesn't count
>>65700911
>mixture
Nah, the V/V comes right before a IV and just before the V.
>scale degree substitution
More like contrapunctic flow.
>Also raising leading notes doesn't count
I know but what I am thinking about is placed at the continuo.
>>65700981
* right after a IV
>>65700981
Well lets see this example then
>>65701002
Jesu Bleibet Meine Freude
At the Final cadence (V - I) of the first theme.
>>65700899
what do you think of this one?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jd3Ul0qEUn0
it's my favorite
>>65701019
sorry for the sticky fingerz
>>65701014
Can you screencap the part you mean?
http://petrucci.mus.auth.gr/imglnks/usimg/c/c1/IMSLP190969-WIMA.e202-jesusbleibetmeinefreude-full.pdf
>>65701042
The entire theme is in Sol maj
>>65701090
Well its a V/V, its still not "scale degree substitution"
I thought this was going to be an example of "scale degree substitution" ? I claimed that its something Bach doesn't do. He uses applied chords all the time, but he doesn't just substitute scale degrees without reason, except in picardy thirds at the end of a minor piece.
>>65701135
>but he doesn't just substitute scale degrees without reason
No composer changed the scale with no reason. This is the primal form of switching a note with another on an harmonic purpose.
Real scale degree substitution appears with Schubert and even tho thats completely explainable by the exploitation of the Mediante tone.
>only positive feedback
thanks
https://soundcloud.com/vine-plaga/oxy10
>>65697736
>Bach's subjects are so good he can use them in strict inversions and retrogrades to create counterpoint for themselves!
>retrograde
Give a single example of this in Bach fugues.
>>65702342
Two voice canon in the musical offering. See the second example image:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Retrograde_(music)
>>65702541
>Give a single example of this in Bach fugues.
>fugues
>>65702573
I dont know all Bach's fugues, but supposedly retrograde was done. He doesn't usually invert or retrograde the entire subject, but small sections of the subject, taking a few notes, transforming via inversion or augmentation or retrograde and then slotting them in where they fit as counterpoint.
To be honest I didn't even know he used retrograde, I meant to say augmentation, but the point is he uses compositional techniques and permutations of his subjects to create countersubjects, making his compositions extremely tight.
Bumping with progress on this fugue before sleep >>65697570
https://clyp.it/yaxcpn5y
Getting pretty funky with modulation towards the end - 0:55/0:56 in particular, could probably be smoother
Also gotta love a big ritardando to major cadence. Gets me every time. Something so beautiful about major cadences. SENTIMENTAL
I guess the next step for tomorrow is to write the next section. Either a fast pace section or a similair slower tempo with a more chromatic permutaion of the original theme.
counterbump
>>65704071
That's a good bump
>>65703789
>chromatic permutaion of the original theme.
aw yiss