does "experimental" metal just mean good drumming?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9hx6zpDM8is
it just means metal that only pitchfork readers will listen to
us real metalheads know good shit though https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p4ZzqWhvOVA
>>65283302
Is this supposed to compare to Aesthethica or is this just an example of experimental metal
>>65283319
oh boy, cheesy garbage without any artistic bent
>>65283348
why would anyone respect a Liturgy fan's opinions on metal
fuck off
>>65283396
Yeah we should instead ask people who only listen to metal and shun other mature music
>>65283430
yeah because they at least know liturgy is garbage for people drinking frappuccinos at starbucks
go listen to Ulver
>>65283498
Yeah because they're people who are well balanced and love all music
>>65283509
i like music other than metal
but that doesn't mean i like "transcendental revolutionary black experimental atmospheric metal" that pitchfork, a site completely unfamiliar with metal, tells us to listen to
>>65283554
>i like music other than metal
hahahaha I'm sure kid.
>>65283348
>>65283430
>>65283509
>>65283563
Fuck off dumb hipster
>>65283319
stopped reading at "us real metalheads"
because it discredits your opinion. everyone who only listenes to one genre alone and hates on everything else is bound to have bad taste. it doesnt mean you listen to better metal than the rest of us, it just means that you also listen to the shitty fucking metal that an average music enthusiast would not listen to.
>>65283554
dont u get bored listening to the same kind of stuff over and over without any innovation or experimentation?
why tie down the genre with stupid "traditional" bullshit and let it grow?
>>65283319
you realize this is cheesy and terrible right?
>>65283620
if actually liking music makes him a hipster than i guess so am i
>>65283729
no posting on /mu/ does
>>65283302
can someone give me a download link for this?
>>65283319
Nokturnal Mortum is not experimental
>>65283652
you only think this because Pitchfork has publicized and sold Liturgy and Deafheaven as innovators shunned for innovating. they're shunned because they simply don't make black metal music and claim lordship over a scene they don't engage with based on people like you who can't even identify what you mean by "traditional" black metal and don't understand the innovations that have happened from the late 80s to the mid 90s to now. this is why you don't see many people who actually follow this music having principled disagreements with their fellow black metal fans. it's always outsiders who claim to love how far this genre is getting pushed without even knowing the basics of the genre
>>65284914
im not going to argue that deafheaven is black metal since i think they're more pot rock with black metal influences
but why is it that whenever a band tries to expand the genre plack metal purists always immediatley dismiss them? outside of upping production and adding folk to the mix there hasn't been a lot of well received variation
I'm not all these newer bands are good but the the black metal community has to take some blame for how slowly the genre is evolving
>>65285693
you completely ignored my post, so I'll rephrase once. the genre has not refused innovation. it has continued to change and grow for almost thirty years. Liturgy were not involved in the black metal scene, did not do their homework on the music itself (as evidenced by the manifesto claiming black metal has been stagnant since the second wave) and overall have just loudly announced themselves as saviors no one asked for. I read a good analogy the other day - Liturgy are like a meat eater who goes into a vegetarian restaurant and demands that everyone in the restaurant is holding back the development of the vegetarian pallette by refusing to eat meat.
>>65285771
so what innovations have been made?
>>65285693
That's because a lot of variation comes out gimmicky as hell, or leads to watering down stuff. Purists still love the shit out of maudlin of the Well and Kayo Dot despite having a lot of variation cuz those bands get it both their metal aspects and their non-metal aspects are strong. Someone like Deafheaven has weak riffs vocals are too processed to sound clean rather than vicious (whereas in something like war metal the vocals are already vicious but add a couple effects to sound even more so), and even their build-ups are weak compared to someone like Envy. It's too reliant on textures to dole out its good stuff, and the textures feel like a gimmick because we know there are bands/musicians out there who do it far better.
Aesthetica is even worse because it fails miserably on both the black metal and the math rock end. HHH's vocals are awful they sound amateur as fuck they have no power in them. The riffs are the exact same, too there's no power in them and the narrative capability of metal through the riffing itself is ruined because they ran out of ideas for riffs to write.
Pic related added a lot of variation to black metal, and it has done far more for the genre than anything P4K has dickrided.
>>65283509
I bet you shun any music originating from the country of Japan like the rest of you redditors.
Name 5 jazz albums.
>>65285798
the fact you have to ask is exactly my point. you haven't engaged with the genre enough to know literally anything about it, and yet you insist Liturgy is innovating somehow. how are you so sure? how do you claim any authority on what is a breath of fresh air for this genre when you can't even name more than probably five black metal artists to release music in the last five years? it's insulting.
>>65285887
alright i can respect that
i actually love that album can you recommend other things in a similar vein?
>>65285798
None, this guy's a bonehead
>>65285977
name five black metal artists to release albums in the past five years
>>65285939
from the looks of it you can't either
plus i never said liturgy was innovative all i asked for was examples of who you thought were innovative
>>65285986
You realize we're on the Internet super highway? If I didn't know I could easily in two seconds
>>65285986
actually, since I know you can't, let's make this more interesting. name a single innovation in indie rock in the last five years
>>65286022
ill agree with you that indre rock hasn't evolved much either lately
but look at hip hop for example
the way trap and shitty meme rap is being added to the picture (even if its not good) still shows that these genres are constantly evolving while metal simply refuses to
stupid
>>65286119
>while metal simply refuses to
This whole narrative is complete nonsense to anyone that actually really listens to metal.
>>65285887
>The riffs are the exact same, too there's no power in them
hahahahaha what?
>the riffing itself is ruined because they ran out of ideas for riffs to write.
HAHAHAHAHAHAHHA WHAT?!?!!
>>65286274
how about instead of whining just name some innovations man
if youre such a metalhead it shouldnt be hard for you
>>65283319
exactly how is this better than the ark work, subcultural garbage aside?
>>65283620
both of those guys arguing are stupid and underage, lets be real here
>>65285950
Yeah sure. Before DsO really came into play, there were albums like
Blut Aus Nord - The Work Which Transforms God
Ved Buens Ende - Written In Waters
Who took a similar but not really similar approach to this style of black metal.
Ever since DsO has been more or less done, quite a few bands have been influenced by them.
You got a band like Adversarial who released Nihil Quam Vacuitas Ordinatum Est which got pretty close to getting to DsO though quite a few sections are still regular old black metal.
Then you got bands like Adversarial who release an album like Death, Endless Nothing And The Black Knife Of Nihilism who sorta took the more surface level influence by having a lot of dissonant chords.
Then you got a band like Plebeian Grandstand who are essentially The Dillinger Escape Plan + Deathspell Omega.
>>65286333
Only saying the truth. There is very little movement in riffs making the record an awful metal record, and the riffs themselves weren't all that great to begin with. It's like HHH had an idea similar to DsO on Paracletus (have multiple mathy melodies create a larger riffing force) but failed to go all the way with it. As is apparent in the list of bands I have above that are DsO influenced, making something like that is VERY hard, and HHH/crew weren't up to it.
Greg fox is god
>>65286564
alright ill check them out thanks
(and thanks for being an adult unlike that other guy)
>>65286564
Do you not realize Liturgy make music based on a variety of influences, particularly Medieval and Minimal music?
Like seriously Liturgy is a black metal band in the same way that Radiohead is a krautrock band.
>>65286355
just search up avantgarde metal on rym
>>65286633
Yeah, and...? We already have great examples of medieval influences in metal, and the minimalism thing was again, done better by Deathspell Omega on Paracletus. In Paracletus they play the riffs together in a similar way to how guys like Morton Feldman or Charlmagne Palestine did their piano works (again, playing a bunch of melodies together so close to each other that it sounds like something different in of itself when they are all playing like that) but didn't forget that they are a metal band, too that there still needs to be actual movement.
HHH's approach to minimalism reminds me of the Prelude to Joan D Arc on Julius Eastman's Unjust Malaise where the repetition gets boring as fuck because so little change happens throughout the track.
>>65286627
Yeah dude no problem.
>>65286796
>together in a similar way to how guys like Morton Feldman
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
Go on, link a track like that.
HHH's approach to minimalism is actually a lot like Philip Glass' or Glenn Branca's approach, with additive/diminutive rhythms around a generally stable harmony.
Basically we have an obsessive metalhead who knows nothing about music outside metal, and any artist who decides to incorporate metal into a new genre is seen as a fraud and illegitimate.
>>65286796
id love to hear feldman esque metal kek
>>65286833
On Rothko Chapel nigga what are you smoking?
>a lot like Philip Glass' or Glenn Branca's approach, with additive/diminutive rhythms around a generally stable harmony
Nah those guys again, actually have movement in their music. Stuff changes quite often. Aesthetica doesn't move around or change often enough to keep itself interesting for most of the album.
>>65286973
>On Rothko Chapel
No, the metal track you moron.
>thinking Rothko Chapel is a track
you're honestly so fucking stupid it's hilarious
>Aesthetica doesn't move around or change often enough to keep itself interesting for most of the album.
ITT: I listened to it in the background and was told to dislike HHH so it's shit
>>65286998
Holy shit it's you again, isn't it boldfaure? I already wrecked you when we talked TBK. I don't wanna do this again.
>>65287020
>I already wrecked you when we talked TBK.
You mean when you said that noise without any tone = harmony? That was pretty funny.
>>65286883
pic related
Both of those bands just took the worst aspects of metal and mixed them with stale ideas from other genres, all while claiming to revolutionize a genre where nobody even likes their ideas (with good reason).
Other than that first guy, plenty of metal aficionados have already written in depth criticism of Liturgy ITT.
>>65287062
The metal people are rating Liturgy on their perceived criteria within metal, despite the fact that Liturgy is not a metal band.
>>65286998
Why are you so defensive over some shitty """experimental""" album made by a literal autist?
>>65287112
So you aren't going to provide any track(s)?
>>65287112
hhh is definitely autistic or some mental dissorder but that only makes it more interesting.
>>65287043
But it does have tone though. You hear it, it has its place within frequency. Do you really wanna do this again and get wrecked?
>>65287088
https://www.vice.com/read/not-fit-to-print-transcendental-metal
written by HHH himself
>>65287112
>>65287136
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0HTajp3sGww
wait is anyone here even on liturgys side or do we all agree he sucks?
>>65287129
I'm not the guy you were arguing with
>>65287186
"It's place in frequency" != tone.
Do you seriously want to get in another long argument to get proven wrong on every point all over again, newfag?
>>65287187
>written by HHH himself
Yes, that's an essay on the black metal community and how Liturgy uses black metal in their music, but Liturgy has been continually said by HHH to just take black metal as a part of the influence.
The term is "gesamtkunstwerk", total artwork, as originally used by Wagner: sure it has aspects of black metal but it also takes from many different sources.
Aesthethica is just pared down to the fundamentals of their ideal sound.
>>65287228
Boldfaure is here. We believe he started around >>65286333
He thinks his knowledge of theory and looking at everything from that perspective makes him superior. He's the same guy who got wrecked in a discussion in an AOTD thread a couple days ago. Also a huge Liturgy fan.
Here read some of his reviews. Shit beats that P4K Kid A review when it comes to pretentious garbage:
https://rateyourmusic.com/collection/boldfaure/reviews
>>65287228
Theres one autist in here who's really defensive over him because he feels superior to "metalheads" because he thinks they're too conservative of the genre because if you call a failed experimental album shit then you obviously hate genre progression and experimentation
ITT: an obsessive troll thinks anyone cares about my RYM account
>>65287228
i like liturgy a lot, not on any ideological grounds though, or in terms of his innovation though so i have nothing to argue, i could care less about that, just simply enjoy their music
hunters riffs are pretty addictive, and he has a uniqe voice through them. if i'd find another band that scratches the same itch, more effectively, chances are i'd drop his band
>inb4 fanisk, krallice or nattens madrigal
nah, its just not the same
>>65287272
I didn't say that though. I clearly said that you hear it, too, thus existing and having qualities. A bunch of those together can make a harmony.
>Do you seriously want to get in another long argument to get proven wrong on every point all over again, newfag?
As far as I remember, you are the one that quit cuz you didn't have an counter arguments even though the ones you had were already weak as fuck. Everyone else in that topic agreed to you getting wrecked, too. *sigh I just need rbt to get back up again so that every time you post stupid shit I can just post that thread.
>>65282656
Anyone know where I can get a copy of this in FLAC?
>>65287346
How old are you?
>>65287296
dude just go back to r/music
https://np.reddit.com/r/Music/comments/2tz3lu/run_the_jewels_lie_cheat_steal_hiphop_fresh_video/co3s2n5?context=2
>>65287287
no i agree that liturgy sucks i was just having difficulty finding any well received experimental black metal
i was corrected by >>65286564 and was really just angry about how much of a dick >>65285939 was being
>>65287378
how the fuck do you not know rutracker newfag
>>65287396
Wow.
You really are obsessed.
That's hilarious. Do you have an RYM too?
>>65287407
He's not talking about you, he's talking about boldfaure
I don't know much about obscure black metal because i'm more of a death and prog metal guy but for those of you who believe the narrative liturgy and deafheaven are the only innovators in black metal check out enslaved, ihsahn, peste noire, deathspell omega, panopticon, later darkthrone albums, spectral lore, leviathan, blut aus nord. also emperor and burzum were two popular black metal artists that were experimenting during the second wave
>>65287476
for the last time we don't think they're the only people innovating in metal we think Liturgy is a general experimental rock band that uses metal as a part of their aesthetic
deafheaven's just shit though
>>65287496
>but why is it that whenever a band tries to expand the genre plack metal purists always immediatley dismiss them? outside of upping production and adding folk to the mix there hasn't been a lot of well received variation
i'm talking to this guy
>>65287410
Sorry, I had completely forgotten how to use that site. I've been without the internet for two years. Just got out of prison for assaulting a music critic. I'm downloading it now.
>>65287590
do u get to listen to any music in prison or have u just had to catch up? also did u get buttfucked?
what do you guys think of oranssi pazuzu?
>>65287648
Music is restricted, so I was limited to The Beatles & The Arctic Monkeys. My friend sent me a Black Metal album and when I played it my cellmate went bezerk and anally raped me. It hurt a little bit.
>>65287706
wild
>>65287706
what album?
>>65287812
L'Ordure A L'Etat Pur
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zlTyc_V7_uE
It's a shamed he raped me over this album because I happen to really like it.
>>65285939
Just educate him then, if you're so equipped.
>>65287973
that guy hasnt responded in like 2 hours he's admitted he knows nothing
>unironically enjoying music
i'm disgusted by all of you /mu/, god damn plebeians
>>65287378
soulseek
>>65285887
I've never heard of Deathspell Omega before. This is really good.
>>65283319
Metal is for babies
asthethica is objectively good. you're all just closed-minded cry babies
>>65286883
Judging by the people around me.
1. Metalheads are insecure fags who dislike anything that deviates from their definition of metal.
2.The current wave of hipster black metal doesn't merge anything. They're either black metal or shoegaze. The only thing they bring to the table is aesthetics.
3.People who actually care about the incorporation of said bands to the metal genre are vaping fedorafags.
