Why did the Grateful Dead almost completely ditch their acid rock sound after 1969?
I understand that bands change their sound of course, but their psychelic blues rock sound was awesome and they ditched it for a more boring folk/country sound. They also ditched many of their best songs, like Doin That Rag.
Don't get me wrong, I do love a lot of the songs on American Beauty, however I think their overall sound declined by the end of 1969.
Were they just trying to be another CSNY?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k2WRlr3cvgI
Never again would they release a song this good, except for maybe Box of Rain
>>65017442
Nah, their peak was 1971-1975 when they embraced the jazz sound they only implied on Dark Star. With Keith in the fold, they went on their best improv adventures.
>>65018185
I like the Eyes of the World from the GD movie
However, I'm not a huge fan of keith, he played nothing but Grand Piano and maybe Electric Piano sometimes
>>65018217
>However, I'm not a huge fan of keith, he played nothing but Grand Piano and maybe Electric Piano sometimes
For a long time I had a problem with that until I listened to him play his first show in 1971 and realized how great of a player he was and that he really didn't need to play organ.
Jerry and Keith's musical communication on songs like Truckin' and Dark Star was really good too.
>>65018320
yeah he was a great piano player, before he became a huge heroin addict at least, but I still like versatility. Some songs sound better with an organ, like Bertha.
>>65017442
Good post. I know what you mean. One thing the Dead always were, were explorers, so it makes sense that they'd be constantly seeking new sounds. At the end of the 60s they moved out of San Fran proper because it had become overrun with addicts, posers, and media. They settled in the more rural Marin County. At this time, many OGs of the counterculture were getting into the whole commune living of the land thing. The change of scenery greatly influenced their songwriting, as well as befriending CSNY
>>65018370
I used to not like him because it's hard to hear the piano often, but when the mix is good, he brings a very jazzy prettiness to their sound. Probably the best keyboardist they ever had in regards to improvising with Jerry.
>>65018609
Yeah I know they were explorers, however it seems like they largely stuck with the folk rock thing starting in 1970, maybe even by the end of 1969.
But they did seem to go in a Jazzy direction around 1973 which was cool, and they dabbled in different stuff throughout their career. But 69-70 was easily the biggest change. I think the departure of Tom Constanten also made a difference, the last good St. Stephen in my opinion was in January (or maybe February) 1970. The subsequent St. Stephens without the whirling organ weren't as good, in my opinion.
And yeah I could appreciate Keith, but he should have switched up the keyboards sometimes, the way Brent did.
>>65018609
oh and adding to this, I think the Europe 72 thing with the 2 keyboards was cool. But their songs had reached a peak "boringness", around this point.
>>65018761
Good point about St. Stephen - I HATE how they slowed it and Friend of the Devil down in the late 70s. Weak. The thing is, Brent is actually my least favorite era. Not really his fault, but the 80s keyboards can be a bit much, and his voice unduly dominates later on.
>>65018818
I guess it just comes down to personal taste. I love their folk stuff - beautiful melodies, sturdy harmonies and the music matches. Hunter's lyrics really took off around this time too. They could still take off and jam
>>65017442
oh, how much do you think Pigpen's death had to do with it? He was the one really keeping them tethered to that blues base
>>65018969
Pigpen's involvement seemed to have been diminished by 1969, and their sound changed 3-4 years before his death.
>>65018928
Yeah I don't think it should be slowed down, I wonder why they decided to do it.
There's no way the 80s was weaker than the 90s though, Brent at least used a B3 mostly (to my understanding) while Vince used cheesy sounding keyboards. And Jerry was a fucking wreck by 93.
>>65019035
Haha I'm weird and and like the 90s better than the 80s. They had that double keyboard sound for a while, and there's a sort of tragic brilliance to their teetering on the edge. I also feel like their jams were a little spacier, more experimental (despite the sometimes cheesy effects). It kind of paved the way for stuff you see today on the electo/jam circuit
>>65018761
>>65018928
Pretty good St. Stephen. Shame they got rid of the William Tell section.
https://youtu.be/uvDLIzgA3mw
>>65018818
>>65018928
Europe '72 is my favorite Dead album. The songwriting is god-tier. The Truckin' jam along with Morning Dew are sick.
>>65019035
Brent was 50-50 in his keyboard use. In the late 80s, early 90s, he played this terrible sounding keyboard. It sounded like a piano with cheap strings and bells behind it.
>>65019188
That is good. William Tell is the best part of the song! lol
I can't say anything bad about Europe '72, that Truckin jam is what it's all about. The whole album is a pretty good candidate to play for a neophyte; it kind of encompasses everything, without getting too far out
which one of the beastie boys was in nuetral milk hotel senpai
>>65019314
Ben Gibbard
>>65017442
to be honest, who even gives a fuck about their studio stuff?
Live is the ONLY way to properly listen to the dead
>>65019827
Garcia's first solo album is brilliant.
>>65019827
I'm referring to their live stuff mainly
Are jam bands accepted on /mu/ now or just the Dead?
>>65019101
It's a shame how much Jerry deteriorated in the last few years of his life
He was only 53 and he looked like he was 73. I think the remaining members look better now than Jerry did then.
>>65020185
The Allman Brothers Band and Phish are brilliant as well imo.
>>65020239
Phish is the superior jam band to be honest.
Better musicians, better songs, more fun, way more experimental.
It's pretty much not even a contest.
They took the Dead formula and improved upon it tenfold.
I would have been so pissed as a Deadhead that they never played Golden Road (their first song and one of their best) after 1967
>>65017442
>posts picture of Allman brothers
>talks about Grateful Dead
what the fuck?
>>65020373
yeah fuck all the actual improv and shit i wanna hear boring ass derivative garage rock beatles ripoff summer of love songs
>>65020321
They maybe technically better, but their songwriting is lacking. There was a period in their early days up to Rift, that it wasn't bad with that album being their songwriting peak, but even than it doesn't compare to Hunter and Garcia's brilliant catalog of songs. Also the Dead, especially in their early days, could get pretty experimental. It's apples and oranges.
>>65020379
nigga what
>>65020373
I know Garcia wasn't proud of their early work. Vince tried to get them to bring back Cream Puff War and Garcia jokingly said, "We will, but only if you sing it!"
>>65020387
I didn't say they should only play songs like that, you retard. But Viola Lee Blues is on the same album and that's matured Dead.
But it was a fan favorite and it would have been nice if they played it every now and then.
>>65020445
yeah but you called it one of their best which is like... wht...
>>65020417
I think Garcia liked Anthem of the Sun and Aoxomoxoa, though. And even some of their stuff from as early as 1965 survived until the end.
But yeah there were some songs he wasn't proud of, which is surprising because they seem pretty solid.
>>65020476
Yeah it is one of their best, along with other early songs that he ditched
>>65020501
come and join the party every day
HEY HEY
COME N JOIN THE PARTY!
>>65020510
Thought I heard a BLACKbird sing up on BLUEbird hill!
Weird. I had this same revelation like 2 hours ago.
Their early distortion/feedback fueled freak outs were awesome. I wish they would have further explored that path.
Their country/folk stuff does nothing for me.
They do have some flashes of brilliance here and there, but there's not much deviation in their setlists in the 70s to warrant autistically listening to hundreds of their concerts.
Just listen to versions of Dark Star and trash the rest of the show.
>>65020534
Your rain falls like crazy fingers
Peals of fragile thunder keeping time
Recall the days that still are to come
Some sing blue
Hang your heart on laughing willow
Stray down to the water
Deep Sea of Love
Beneath the sweet calm face of the sea
Swift undertow
>>65020552
Pretty much. Dark Star, Morning Dew, The Other One, Weather Report, Playin' in the Band
>>65020552
I totally agree about the Setlists of the 70s, they seem monotonous despite changing every night.
And I think their complete change of sound has to do with wanting to be like a jam band version of CSNY.
>>65020479
17:30
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8JOhtcJCjXA
>>65020552
Since I really love their 1971-1975 era, I don't mind listening to sets of repeating stuff.
>>65017442
They had a tendency in the 60's and 70's to pursue one sound until they had mastered it and then move onto another. They arguably pushed their psych rock sound to it's greatest extent on Live/Dead, at which point they moved onto traditional Americana, mastering that with Europe '72 (my personal favorite Dead album,) then moving into a more prog/jazz direction in the mid 70's, which they mastered with Terrapin Station (the song more than the album.) Also, if they were trying to be CSNY in the early 70's, I think they did it better than CSNY themselves. The harmonies on Workingman's Dead and American Beauty are absolutely incredible, and Europe '72 is probably their most masterful songwriting period. He's Gone, Tennessee Jed, Brown Eyed Women, and Ramble On Rose are all straight up classics. Such a triumphant record.
>>65017442
Their roots are in folk. Check out mother mccrees uptown jug champions, and disc one of "thebirth of the dead" which more than a few of those songs were performed when they were The Emergency Crew. The last song on BOTD, "Fire in the City" with John Hendricks is fan-fucking-tastic
Jerry was also credited as "spiritual advisor" on Surrealistic Pillow, so their styles and musical scope/influences ranged pretty far early on. After the electric kool-aid acid tests (also crazy recordings to hear, downloaded em once when i was in hs, and havnt found a reliable torrent since) they basically just did what they wanted, because lets face it, they were freaks, and they loved freaks. From 67-77 or maybe up until jerrys first coma, it was all about the freaks, and by the time they evolved again they already had a loyal following and could get away experimenting and playing whatevr they wamted.
There isnt a single studio album i dont appreciate honestly, atleast not that i can think of right now. But i havnt listened to any dead in a long time, ive been floating between death/black/classic metal and edm for the last 5 or 6 years.
>>65020652
Wow I was actually surprised by how quick he was to dismiss those songs. Alligator and Viola Lee Blues are classics, I can understand not doing Alligator though since Pigpen died. Does Jerry even mention Pigpen in that whole interview?
>>65020625
Their complete change of sound is probably switching from acid to weed.
Mellowed their sound out and they got less adventurous musically.
Then they sort of got good again in the late 70s when they started doing coke.
Also, the 1969 Fillmore West concerts are the best shows they ever played.
>>65020896
They started doing coke in 1973, and Jerry first did Heroin in 1975
>>65020915
I don't know why you know that, but I'm impressed.
>>65020928
I've read random shit that happened to mention their drug use. Jerry started doing Heroin a lot when he was making the GD movie, and he aged so damn quick after that. He looked like an old man by 1980.
If you can get beyond their obnoxious fan bases and fucking awful band names, there's a lot of great jam bands out there aside from The Grateful Dead and Phish.
Disco Biscuits, String Cheese Incident, Umphrey's McGee are all great bands that play like 300 shows a year and leave a pint of blood on the stage after playing for 4 hours.
And when they have a good night, it's some of the most amazing music you'll ever hear.
In a just world, they should be the biggest bands on earth, but playing 20 minute jams is never easily marketable I guess.
I don't know why jam bands have such a bad reputation. Again, it's probably their filthy hippie fans.
>>65020915
I don't believe they started doing coke in '73. I had heard Jerry started doing heroin in late '76.
I do know one of the reasons Mickey left was because of his heroin problem.
>>65021185
It was because his dad stole a fuckload of money from the band in early '71.
>>65021185
Do you think they started doing coke earlier?
And I'm surprised Mickey was doing heroin in 1971. 1976 sounds right for Jerry's heroin problem, that's when he started aging rapidly.
>>65021236
>>65021212
No, I always thought the hard drug use started in the late 70s. Billy confirmed Mickey's heroin problem in his book.
>>65017442
I hear ya. I'm a fan of the Pig Pen years, and the first three and first live album are my all time favorites, along with the two live albums Vintage Dead, and Historic Dead, as well as The Warlocks' "Emergency Crew" demos. I don't get why people trying to turn people on to The Grateful Dead always seem to recommend Workingman's Dead, and/or American Beauty. I love those albums, but they have turned off a LOT of people to the band, and most people think ALL their albums sound like that, and consider them quite boring, or too mellow. At least Skull and Roses had some good rockers on there, even if the majority of it are just covers.
Also, concerning your comments about CSN&Y, if I remember correctly, Rock Scully had said in his autobiography, "Living With The Dead" it was David Crosby himself who suggested that the band go in that particular direction.
>>65019188(Nice dubs)
>>65019305
>William Tell
Are you referring to the song "The Eleven"?
>William Tell has stretched his bow 'til it will stretch no further more and/or may require a change that hasn't come before.......
