I understand what Waters was trying to do with this album, and it's clear how frustrated he still was with his father's death (even as he was nearing 40 years old) and how that connects with Thatcher's intervention in the Falklands, but I can't help but admit that I'm just not really feeling it. I only listened to it for the first time just now, but there didn't seem to be much about almost any of the tracks to keep the listener engaged other than the ever-looming "I'm angry" message -- and Waters will not hesitate for one moment to remind you that's how he's feeling. There are no hooks here to keep you interested, nothing terrible memorable to make you want to revisit it, nothing that made past Pink Floyd albums as outstanding as they were. I'm supposed to feel sorry for Waters, right? -- and if so, in what way? Pitiful that his father died and that we keep going to war, forgetting about domestic issues in the process, or sorry that he couldn't really convey that frustrated feeling in an all too convincing manner? Overall, I certainly don't feel that it's a bad album, but it doesn't exact feel like a great one, either. Maybe it could have come out stronger if Pink Floyd were still working as a group, instead of being Waters' backup band. It's not nearly as bad as the Gilmour era, at least.
What do you think? Like it? Hate it? Mixed?
>>64790808
Good thoughts, OP. I used to feel the same way (save for When the Tigers Broke Free - very powerful song). But lately I feel like it is a singular achievement, even if it isn't the best Floyd album. There's just nothing like it. Take some time away then revisit it, it's a grower if there ever was one. The hooks come from the burst of saxophone, guitar, or Waters' own voice rising and falling around the subtle arrangements and sound effects. One of the most interesting, if flawed, statements put out by a group. It's good for me when I'm feeling in a down, calm mood.
>>64790808
I genuinely feel like I'm the only one who thoroughly enjoys Gilmour-era Floyd.
I feel like the Final Cut is a better version of the Wall, albeit less catchy. it also displays a broader range of worldwide issues, while the Wall seems purely autobiographical at least for the most part. There's a lot less filler tracks as well, sticking to the anti-war message in the album. I feel like Roger did really well showing his genuine feelings through the album.
My favorite track is probably The Gunner's Dream:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g9mhU1mm5P0
I find TFC to be extraordinary. It's not Pink Floyd's best album, by a good shot, but it is a completely different type of achievement to their massive 70s albums (which really cannot be topped in terms of size or impact).
This album is much more about the poetry, it has very clean and minimalist production. It's not an album a "new" or "unestablished" band could have made. It's very much a matured sound and I think it has an incredible amount of artistic integrity - this just doesn't feel like a effort to be commercially successful or pop-relevant at all. So yes, this doesn't make it a great album that sits on lists and gets on the radio, but it is special and it is unique, and frankly I'm really glad it exists.
In terms of the message, I think it's actually less literally and directly about "daddy" than it seems. I think it reflects a middle-aged melancholy about the current state of the world. The exuberance and sacrifice of WW2 (in which daddy died) has gone stale and is being forgotten and sullied by the threats and frivolousness of governments in the climate of 1983 Cold War. I think to Waters the greatest insult isn't that his father was killed in a great existentially-theatening war, but that we didn't and haven't done better and been better since then. To him the Cold War and Arms Race and the perpetual wars fought daily on earth are the biggest insult to the memory of those who ended the world war. What did they really die for, etc.
I know it's often used as an example of how Roger Waters had become a control freak, but this album is good in its way, the guitar is haunting and 'Not now John' is one of their most underrated songs. It's a cold album I think, because of Rick Wright's absence.
>>64791579
Fuck man I always cop shit and I often even feel bad for saying it, but Michael Kamen's work on the Rhodes and Hammond on this album bring it to a whole different level. Not to mention his orchestrations are just as intimate and breathy as the vocals are. The horns and small string section on Fletcher Memorial Home? It's absolutely beautiful †bh.
>>64791761
o__0 ...I always thought Roger played the keys on this haha
two suns is fucking incredible, definitely one of floyd's best imo
>>64792033
Nope, Michael Kamen (RIP)
Every song has amazing moments on the keys, just very subtle and very clean, but it's especially apparent during Fat Dave's guitar solo in Fletcher Memorial Home. Just good arranging.
>>64792134
Yup - a perfect example of the kind of mature and skilled songwriting I'm talkin' about
>>64791142
I mean, I like Gilmour era too. It's just not as good as Barrett or Waters eras
>>64790808
I tihnk its incredibly underrated and one of pink floyds best. I'd put it in the top 4 or 5 they've done.
The lyrics are pretty great and the arrangements are pink floyds best non-psych hands down.
>>64792751
>arrangements
honestly even starting with The Wall, and following-on to The Final Cut, even RW goes out of his way to commend Michael Kamen for always doing such quality work that it never has to be tweaked or modified. He did all the orchestral arrangements in The Wall all alone, without the band or Bob Ezrin there to direct/produce and RW says it was all remarkably perfect right out of the box
>>64790808
It's an album that has to right to be as good as it actually is.
Maybe it would have gotten more respect if Roger had released it as a solo album. It's probably my second or third favourite PF album actually.
>>64790808
was just a bunch of songs left over from The Wall
seriously it is a reject album
>>64792923
I think TFC is better than The Wall on it. But really, kudos to Michael Kamen then. Didn't even know that.
>>64792955
His solo career doesn't get a ton of respect though. I like Amused to Death quite a bit.
>>64790808
Not Now John and Two Suns in the Sunset are good, don't remember the rest of the album, don't remember the rest
>>64793413
IMHO Amused to Death belong with Dark Side and The Wall in terms of its execution and scope. And yeah, the production of The Wall was such a bloated mess that was overstaffed, overbudget, under-structured, and almost ruined the band financially that they send the songs and charts off to Kamen in NYC on a leap of faith that he would deliver while they toiled in the trenches bouncing from one studio to another, all while the band fought each other mercilessly and Ezrin took-over as manager while Guthrie took-over as producer under constant threat from Ezrin that he'd be fired for overstepping and when it all finally came together 18 months later and they started laying the master tracks, Kamen shows-up fresh off the plane, ready to record, with dozens of full orchestra charts that perfectly undestood the album and then finally everyone got their shit together and an album emerged from the dirt
>>64790808
This is one of my favorite PF albums, and it's certainly a great goodbye note from Waters. While I agree it doesn't any catchy hooks like any of his former albums did (especially the Wall - if this album came right after WYWH or Animals, it would've easily been more considered at the time and probably today), but it has some great songs like Post-War Dream, The Final Cut, Not Now John, and practically all the songs in-between. I feel like it's the quiet, introspective brother of The Wall, as it's poetic, truly personal, and filled with soothing and clever instrumentals (Roger Waters voice and a saxophone with "hold on to the dreammmm"?)
It would've probably been a better album had Waters not strained the relations with the band and let Gilmour experiment a little more, but it's still evident that Waters was the lead of the band in terms of album quality. Compare any of Waters' PF or solo albums to any of Gilmour's PF or solo albums - it's easy to see that Waters had the lyrics, melody, and themes for his album, whereas Gilmour was a great guitarist with decent lyrics and boring thoughts.
All in all, probably my second or third favorite Pink Floyd album. It could've been better, but it's still one of their best in my opinion.
>>64793994
Well put anon, I agree 100%. And the production is absolutely tops. Even if you didn't understand English you would still know what the album is about and you'd still get the same feels. The execution is brilliant, it feels exactly how it sounds and it sounds exactly like what they're saying and doing musically and lyrically.
>Roger Waters voice and a saxophone with "hold on to the dreammmm
Even when I was 16 that gave me chills and it still does. That record is so full of production gold and it's so seamless you don't even, and might not even, have to notice it.
I wanna ßump this one
>>64791374
>The exuberance and sacrifice of WW2 (in which daddy died) has gone stale and is being forgotten and sullied by the threats and frivolousness of governments in the climate of 1983 Cold War. I think to Waters the greatest insult isn't that his father was killed in a great existentially-theatening war, but that we didn't and haven't done better and been better since then. To him the Cold War and Arms Race and the perpetual wars fought daily on earth are the biggest insult to the memory of those who ended the world war.
Agreed. But I don't think he really added anything to it, he just brought it up. Which is enough to invoke a strong emotional response, but not really great art.
>>64795871
>One of the Few
>Possible Pasts
>The Gunner's Dream
>Fletcher Memorial Home
>Not Now John
>Two Suns in the Sunset
In fact almost the whole album ponders 1983 vs 1945, and the future that people thought we had in 1945 vs the one we have and see ahead of us, as of 1983. I sort of get what you're saying, but really the entire thing is pondering the emotions and "exuberance" of then vs. what we are actually left with "now" (~1983). I don't want to be cliché with my words but it's an incredibly resigned post-modern take on everything put forward in DSotM and The Wall, and I think it's really potent the way it's delivered.
>>64790808
Eeeeeeh, not fond of the album myself, feels like the redheaded stepchild of PF. I disagree with your notion about the Gilmour era though, call me a Gilmourfag, but I prefer the 2 Gilmour albums over TFC.
FUCK ALL THAT
FUCK ALL THAT
Lot’s of great discussion here and I’m glad to see this album get recognized, because it’s disgustingly underrated.
For my money, there may not be a better opening line than
>Tell me true, tell me why was Jesus crucified?
>>64796338
forgot pic
>>64790808
Feel whatever you want, and can.
You've lived your entire life being corralled around so much that you can't eve experience an album on your own terms, make your own personal connections. Stop worrying about what you're supposed to do. Your personal notion of the creator's intent isn't relevant to your overall experience.
>>64796546
this nigga incoherently high or drunk right now. and that's fine, I still get what you're saying and I like your moxie
>>64796342
>>64793994
This fag. I wholeheartedly agree - I remember listening to all the albums on youtube, and then stumbling upon a funny looking cover, black and red.
>Pink Floyd - The Final Cut HD
Clicked on expecting a typical PF opening, something with a guitar, maybe some electronic noise, and to my surprise, I hear a soft orchestra and people chattering. Then softly and suddenly
>Tell me true, tell my why - was Jesus crucified?
>Was it for this my daddy died?
Like damn I hadn't heard Waters took lyrics so personally until I heard this line. 10/10 indisputably
>>64796777
>>64796148
You know, that's really interesting. I'm gonna give The Final Cut another chance.
>>64796338
GOTTA COMPETE WITH THE WILY JAPANESE
>>64793272
I bet you think Amnesiac is bad
Hadn't listened to it for a few years. The drumming was better than I expected for late Floyd.
>>64796991
I think Amnesiac is absolute schite
>>64797171
I like that observation! I always found it weirdly organic compared to the mechanical stuff, as heard especially on The Wall
In a lot of ways it almost feels like it should be a renaissance for the band when really it was the swan song
>WHITE POWER!
what did he mean by this
But now
She stands upon Southampton dock
With her handkerchief
And her summer frock clings
To her wet body in the rain.
In quiet desperation knuckles
White upon the slippery reins
She bravely waves the boys Goodbye again
The Final Cut is more like a novel set to music than a music album.
The music isn't music, it's texture. The Post War Dream gives me chills every time I hear it.
>>64797658
By the cold and religious we were taken in hand, shown how to feel good but told to feel bad.
I was just a child then, now I'm only a man
>>64793272
majority of the songs are not though. and bands always use old material that didnt fit to other albums - most recent example radiohead's AMSP closign track.
>>64790808
OP, this is one of those albums you need to go through at least 3 times in order to understand it. for me it took 4 listens without exaggerating.
right now it is easily top 4 PF album for me.
if english isn't your first language you can read along the lyrics (just google it) and it will make it much easier for you.
If I
Show you my dark side
Would you still hold me
ToniiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiighT?
>>64790808
I always loved the final cut.
I had it when i was like 15. My uncle had a bunch of records and this was one of several pink floyd albums i had access to. I had no context or anything and i always really enjoyed it.
I think Rogers writing got less and less creative as time went on, but he had ideas he was trying to convey and as he got older, it seem like he was trying hard and harder to get them out and cared less and less about record sales or what the public at large thought about his work.
>>64797658
>>64797771
Normally I don't rate lyrics as particularly important, but The Final Cut is a big exception.
You know I've been coming to this board for a while now and this is the best thread I have read through yet.
> Thank you
> Thank you
> Thank you
>mfw a girl told me The Final Cut was her favorite Pink Lloyd album.
