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You are currently reading a thread in /mu/ - Music
You are currently reading a thread in /mu/ - Music
let's be serious for a second here, he wasn't actually a very good composer
I've just recently started exploring his music. Can't really form an opinion as of now.
Better than your favorite probably
>>64736893
>he wasn't actually a very good composer
If you want to really get serious, you should look at his scores. Then you'll see he's a fantastic composer.
He might not have cared to please pleb ears, but he was a very high tier composer, knew his shit, and wrote some sensational music, if you have open ears.
>>64739193
>he may not have cared about how his music sounded but he was a very high tier composer
>he may not have cared about how his films looked but he was a very high tier director
>he may not have cared about how his books read but he was a very high tier writer
>he may not have cared about how his food tasted but he was a very high tier chef
>he may not have cared about how his patients' lives but he was a very high tier surgeon
>he may not have cared about how his buildings maintained structural integrity but he was a very high tier architect
>he may not have cared about how his army was doing but he was a very high tier general
>look at the scores faggot
Holy Jesus.
>>64740190
My God! What has sound got to do with music!
Any of yall into Douglas Lilburn? What's his best piece?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ORuJ8npS7-I
Beethoven ruined Western art music.
It's shocking how all the things that slowly wrung the life out of it were pioneered by him, or at the very least synthesized and forcefully, desperately hurled at the Western ear until it succumbed to a kind of Stockholm syndrome. This constantly expanding compendium of aural garbage slowly became a meme (in the real sense of the word), it gradually started stifling music as the West knew it and eventually replaced it altogether.
Composers like Chopin or Alkan, and later Debussy or Scriabin were powerless to turn the tides against the onslaught of Beethovenian shit that was operating autonomously as early as the 1830s, a real self-replicating idea, a real meme.
Beethoven (thankfully) died in 1827, Western art music was dead in less than 100 years. Mashing monkey, jittering cretin, pestilential hillbilly. Fuck Beethoven.
My favorite composer > Your favorite composer
>>64740473
agreed
>>64740473
>Composers like Chopin or Alkan, and later Debussy or Scriabin
Those composers suck though. Scriabin probably metaphorically blew Beethoven's formal-obsessed dick given how Scriabin's music is filled to the brim with the driest formalism in music, period.
>Muh dark and edgy themes xD
>Muh mystic chord xD
>I am le god *tips fedora*
Scriabin is the original avant-teen music. Beethoven is shit but you clearly have no taste either if you think Scriabin was a composer worth mentioning.
>>64736893
>>64740473
>>64740569
>>64740734
>>64740190
>>64740734
true
>>64739193
>listening wrong
>>64740473
Nice copypasta.
>that one guy who absolutely hates Beethoven
Beethoven [underrated]
>>64737316
"the fuck is going on here 2 keys at once baka"
>>64740734
You're confusing atypical tonal language with formalism.
Nice concession though.
>Beethoven's formal-obsessed dick
That's all I wanted to hear.
>>64741305
Good, it's what Ludwigoloids deserve.
>>64736893
I disagree senpai
Name something wrong with his string quartets
Kodaly > Bartok
>>64742139
...
>>64740190
to rephrase: he didn't care about anyone's aesthetics other than his own. A truly uncompromising composer.
>>64742139
post some good kodaly. What forms did he focus on?
>>64740473
You say that Chopin was "trying to save music" from Beethoven (as if, I hate it, therefore it's destroying this medium) but even then:
"The end of the 12th Étude alludes to Beethoven's last piano sonata, written in the same key—a piece Chopin is known to have greatly admired (compare bars 77–81 in the Étude to bars 150–152 in the first movement (also ending in C major) of Beethoven's sonata."
" [...] suffice to say that Chopin admired [Beethoven's Sonata No. 32] enough to imitate both the beginning and end of the first movement (in the opening of his B-flat Minor sonata, and in the end of the Revolutionary etude respectively)."
And if that wasn't enough:
"... exploration shows that the Fantaisie-Impromptu and Beethoven's Moonlight Sonata ("Quasi una fantasia") are related."
" [...] the Fantaisie-Impromptu draws many of its harmonic and tonal elements from Beethoven's Moonlight Sonata, which is also in C-sharp minor, in particular, the third movement. Two measures after the melody begins, an abrupt run has the same notes, one octave higher, as the cadenza in movement 3 (Presto agitato) of that work. The climax on a six-four chord is similar in both pieces. Also, the Fantaisie-Impromptu's middle part and the second movement of the Moonlight Sonata are in D-flat major. The first and third movements are in C-sharp minor."
don't get me wrong, i hate poly as much as anyone else, but seriously martinu is underrated as fuck
>>64742085
Atypical tonal language has nothing to do with his over-adherence to a dry sonata form. He is one of the biggest form wankers, and just because you happen to like him you are ignoring this due to your bias.
Face it, your taste is just as bad as the Thovenplebs.
>ITT retards trying to talk about music
sad stuff to read t b h f a m, looks at these hot comments
>Bartok isn't a good composer
>Beethoven ruined Western art music.
>Debussy suck
>and of course a lot of great "arguments"
the underaged retards that come to this board really grind my gears
you people are pathetic
>>64743073
Debussy does suck. Debussy, Strauss(both Richard and Johan), Franz Scubert, Robert Schumann, Chopin, Lizst were all awful, generic, souless composers who made music for people who don't listen to classical music very often.
Deal with it.
>>64743227
hahahahahaha
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH
those retards man, I tell you
>>64743227
How's music theory 101 going? In our "atonal phase," are we?
>>64743227
come back when you are over 20
>>64743227
How euphoric and enlightened.
>>64743056
>over-adherence to a dry sonata form
Wouldn't that be formulaic rather than formalist?
In my mind:
Formulaic: pouring several ideas in the same preexisting mold.
Formalist: having no clue what you want to do or how you want it to sound and chewing a theme/several motifs (usually boring ones to begin with) to death by tiresome "development" and "variation" hoping something interesting will happen eventually and that academia will claim this process is anything but a travesty.
By the way I think sonatas 1-4 and 10 are poop.
Rare Scriabin:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DsB4woyXoXE
>>64742930
Etudes are pointless and gay. Chopin's sonatas are possible his worst compositions. As if that wasn't enough, he hated the Fantaisie-Impromptu so much he wanted the manuscript destroyed.
Rare Chopin:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Fkky_mF1Z0
>implying beethoven wouldn't have (further) soiled himself at 2:03
Beethoven is the greatest of all time and nothing can change this fact.
>>64743227
>too many people like it so it is bad
chill out people. I was just joking. Actually i like most of those composers i wrote on that list.
Just wanted to trigger that dude :D
>>64743394
He didn't hated the fantaisie-impromptu, it was "Composed for the Baroness d'Este by Frédéric Chopin"
>>64743394
You are selectively discarding compositions to suit your points.
>rare chopin
>posts a famous nocturne
Op. 27 No.2 is better, btw.
I'm done arguing with this troglodyte.
Reminder that Scriabin's sonatas are the epitome of formalism.
>>64743658
Which sonatas do you recommend to get into Scriabin?
>>64743227
Nice post.
Who would you say is the best then?
>>64743924
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z9cnyfET1lE
Best piece of 20th century Western music - AXIOMATIC TRUTH.
>>64736893
fuuuuuuuuck youuuu
>>64740190
lol
>>64743924
Only good ones are 5 and 8
>>64743999
Avant teen tier
>>64743999
>>64744035
that's not no. 2
>>64740190
You can say his music isnt pleasing, but saying he is a bad composer implies way more than just the way it sounds.
>>64744084
forgot link https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nHO4Ucw9zL4
>>64744035
>avant teen
>crystal clear voice leading
>natural flowing phrasing
>gradual volume changes
>clearly delimited motifs
>booming bass
>graceful and tempered upper register
>extremely emotional
>no filler
>avant teen
Honestly Scriabin was a more interesting person (read: insane) than he was a composer
Theres a reason most people talk about him rather than his music and its because once you get past the idiosyncratic tonal language there is literally nothing interesting about him and the dynamics of his music is just LOUD quiet LOUD quiet. Dude couldnt write worth shit for anything that wasnt a piano (all his symphonies save ecstasy were travesties) just like Chopin, and his orchestration was fucking awful.
Truly the most over-rated of the supposed "under-rated" composers. Literally the only Russian worth a shit is Stravinsky. Face it, Russia is a country of good performers and not good composers.
>>64743999
>>64744035
>>64744040
>>64744099
Thanks for the recs
>>64744142
btw Beethoven is shit as well and basically the most underrated composers are probably American and English composers. French are just a bunch of pretentious twats who secretly just aped German music, and people like Sibelius led to minimalism and we all know how that garbage turned out. Bartok and Janacek are alright too but both were huge Debussyfags and you can sniff it in their twatty music.
>>64744186
By the early/mid 1920's the influence of Debussy ceases to be so apparent in Bartók
>>64744186
AHAHAHA American composers. Please...The only thing american can do is jingles for the new McDonalds campaign.
>>64744247
dude you are so right!!! ahahaha LMAO
>>64744186
>>64744247
Charles Ives deserves to be mentioned more often just for wrecking Wagner.
>>64743033
of course he is! I've heard professional orchestral players say this, it must be true.
>>64744186
>Beethoven is shit
opinion discarded. Have a pleasant day.
>>64744227
Probably why I only really listen to later Bartok
>>64744247
Further proof that Ives, Carter, Gould, Bloch, Ruggles, Copland, and Adams are underrated
>>64744337
Yes, it is certainly far more interesting than his shit music, that is for sure
>>64743227
cool memes m'man
>>64744337
Unfortunately he was also a huge Thovenfag as he frequently got wet for the 5th symphony and Hammerklavier
>>64744533
rrrrrrrrrRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRREEEEEEEEE
>>64736893
>This much underage retards
>This much pointless arguments
>No one has even posted the links
/classical/ is dead.
https://mega.co.nz/#F!mMYGhBgY!Ee_a6DJvLJRGej-9GBqi0A
https://mega.co.nz/#F!lIh3GRpY!piUs-QdhZACFt2hGtX39Rw
https://mega.co.nz/#F!Y8pXlJ7L!RzSeyGemu6QdvYzlfKs67w
https://mega.co.nz/#F!kMpkFSzL!diCUavpSn9B-pr-MfKnKdA
https://mega.nz/#F!ekBFiCLD!spgz8Ij5G0SRH2JjXpnjLg
https://mega.co.nz/#F!4EVlnJrB!PRjPFC0vB2UT1vrBHAlHlw
https://mega.co.nz/#F!ygImCRjS!1C9L77tCcZGQRF6UVXa-dA
https://mega.co.nz/#F!il5yBShJ!WPT0v8GwCAFdOaTYOLDA1g
https://mega.co.nz/#F!DdJWUBBK!BeGdGaiAqdLy9SBZjCHjCw
http://crudblud.sjm.so/
>>64744533
why is liking beethoven such a big deal to people like you? i dont fucking get it, do you just have a need to feel special and underground?
Holy shit this thread has to be one of the worst /classical/ threads I've ever fucking seen
You guys are fucking retarded please commit suicide
>>64745376
Don't reply to bait like that, it only makes the thread quality go down. He feels a need for attention, that's why he baits.
>>64744186
>>64744142
You're a giant fucking faggot pham
You're completely ignorant of the greatest composers from Russia yet you keep spouting horseshit like you know anything.
You clearly lack musical knowledge as well so please just eat a bullet
>>64745447
this
>>64736893
his string quartets are honestly my favorite pieces of music. my next favorite pieces of music are the bach cello suites, eric satic gymnopedies, ravel's piano pieces, and debussy's piano pieces. What are you gonna do about it, punk?
Bump
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z94_p4Y43Tc
>>64745447
classical a few months ago
>mmmmmyeah mmmmmmmmmyeah fuck my asshole bach myyyyyeah
>hey guys does anyone have a link to *irrelevant shitty recording from the triassic*
>DAE want to blow *composer*
>OFFICIAL COMPOSER TIER LIST XD
classical now
>discussion about music
You're welcome. Have some high energy Scriabin:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xDTgj_69JKA
>>64747202
What the fuck are you even talking about?
>dae
Back 2 Redshit.
>>64747202
What the fuck?
Sure there's more discussion now but what's the point if it's fucking cancer.
I honestly prefer people memeing about composers and meme recordings than the literal cancer this thread is.
>>64747614
Shitting on "avant teen" composers:
>please grip my cock harder, internet stranger
Shitting on Beethoven:
>FUCKING CANCER REEEE
>>64747720
>shitposting this hard
Just go back to redshit and perhaps educate yourself before spreading cancer around, will you?
>>64743422
>Bach is the greatest of all time and nothing can change this fact.
I can do it too!
>>64736893
[not true, by the way]
he was clearly one of the best composers of the 20th century.
Brahms piano concerti > Mozart piano concerti
dat No .2
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NKX0ef1TZWA
garbage thread. fucking tryhards
>people taking all this bait
>tfw English composers are most of my favorites
am I the only one
>Fantaisie-Impromptu
listening right now. it's OK. nothing special at all, as with much of Chopin for me.
I'm very lost on people hating Beethoven. I agree that his music is a bit fluffy with "development" sounding a lot like a prog rock album. Boring.
But his themes, and the best part of his pieces are often completely mindblowing in their depth and intellect. Astoundingly so.
I still prefer Mozart personally. But hating on Beethoven is odd.
>>64743394
Chopin's best works are his Preludes and Etudes. Prove me wrong. Everything else is non-distinct. The Nocturnes are boring and don't have any standout features.
>>64740734
Funny. Scriabin invented his own unique style of tonality, making it his own. We can see this kind of thing with many other composers in the 20th century. Notably Debussy and Messiaen. I think the triad of Scriabin, Debussy, and Messiaen is interesting in that they all developed their own idiosyncratic takes on harmony which can be instantly recognizable for them, and which seem to have little to do with the "rules" of music theory, particularly with Scriabin. Also, they weren't just atonal bores. They actually bent the rules in ways that are listenable and interesting.
I would extend this to Bartok and Ravel but I think the above three had a more focused take on harmony.
I think of Bartok as kind of like the Autechre of late Romantic music. He doesn't quite fit the serialism of Schoenberg, Stockhausen, and Boulez, etc.
But he doesn't at all fit with Debussy, Mahler.
And furthermore, I wouldn't even say he fits with Stravinsky, who was ultimately sort of like the master genius of the time period who synthesized everything into a perfectly working whole - but whose music does sometimes seem more like a precursor to minimalism. A series of vignettes more than a formal piece - as many here are deriding.
Bartok was a continuation of the lineage from Bach, Mozart, and Beethoven. As others have said, he was formal. His music is certainly not tonal in the sense of Mozart or even Debussy. But it isn't quite atonal, is it?
My problem with Bartok is that I find his harmonic aesthetic really kind of unappealing.
The only times I've really, really enjoyed Bartok - as much of the work of Autechre - was while blazed out of my mind listening to his quartets. It was during those times I saw the details and patterns of his music. Unlike other atonal formalists, like Xenakis, who use form as their main mode of expression - Bartok's music is not like a machine. It is very much classical and structural, and I think standard forms of analysis which are generally applied to classical and romatic era music would work on it.
That said, I don't particularly enjoy listening to it. But to say it is not good art is patently wrong as far as I'm concerned.
Though to be honest I do find some of his works rather bizarrely overrated by some people. I can't get into the orchestral/celesta stuff whatsoever. The string quartets are far more interesting for me. Maybe I've been listening to bad recordings.
Also, I think Bartok wrote a book about his tonal system if you want to read it, it might shed some light if you're interested. I think if anything he's underrated.
>>64748575
The Beethoven hate is just bait, pay no mind to it.
Also, wouldn't Chopin's best works include the Ballades? Why/Why not?
>>64748759
I meant to say that Xenakis music is like a machine, and is NOT formal in the same sense as Mozart/Bach. But that it is very much organized and can be considered highly formal in a sense...
Whereas Bartok was before the mathematical conception of musical structure, and his music is still following in the footsteps of Mozart and Bach, etc, who see pitch events and notelength as corresponding to a particular system of thinking about musical composition.
>>64748830
I need to listen to them. I don't know if it's acceptable to reach judgements on things without listening to all of the pieces, but every Etude or Prelude I've heard from Chopin has had a lot more creativity. Whereas the Nocturnes always sounded like slow versions of things Beethoven was doing but minus any of the dazzling intellect and depth. Actually, I think I'm starting to understand what Chopin was trying to do. He was actually a pretty cool composer, ayy?
I'll check out the Ballades.
http://digitalcommons.cedarville.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1026&context=musicalofferings
Interesting writing about Bartok as an ethnomusicologist
>>64748951
Yeah, I agree. But I still like the Nocturnes for what they are.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3QH8MstNkKg
That is a fairly good recording of the ballades if you need a starting point. The ballades are masterpieces and you should indeed listen to them.
>>64748830
>it-it-it's just bait g-guys
>literally no counterarguments
>eh-he-he just ignore it
>>64748951
>like slow versions of things Beethoven was doing but minus any of the dazzling intellect and depth.
Closest thing to blasphemy when it comes to Western music. Well done.
Also:
>the dazzling intellect and depth.
>>64747717l
>>64748951
>>64749184
On second thought, this MIGHT be sophisticated bait.
>to dazzle
>To confuse the sight of by means of excessive brightness
>To render incapable of thinking clearly; to overwhelm with showiness or brilliance
Sums up Beethoven's music pretty well. An assortment of harmonic whoopty-doos with nothing underneath.
>>64747202
i seem to recall you crying that you'd never come back after getting blown out, assburgers-chan ;)
>>64749362
I seem to recall those cello parts in Beethoven's 9th as evocative of a pig breaking through the bottom of its trough and guzzling the shit-ridden mud underneath.
>>64749301
I tried writing a response but I think you have a point.
Beethoven and Bach both occupy the same space in my mind. They're kind of like super geniuses which are very rare. They understood music so well that they could pretty much do anything they wanted with it in ways that we can only imagine, and most composers can only really imagine.
You could say that Bach's music is just endless nonsense, but actually maybe we were both missing the point about Beethoven. He's just the logical continuation from Bach -> Mozart -> _____.
He expanded the language as much as Mozart did from Bach, and maybe a bit more.
If anything I'm realizing right now just how much of a massive figure Beethoven really is and how much I was missing the point about what he was doing.
>>64748574
i want to get more into english composers
i really like John Bull's work for the harpsichord, could you recommend me any other english composers?
>>64749440
kek. i'm actually glad you are back. it is nice to have at least one antagonizing person around if only for humor's sake and you are a pretty funny person.
>>64748759
i wouldn't say that Bartok doesn't fit at all with Debussy. Debussy was a clear inspiration for him. you can make some pretty clear comparisons between Pelleas and Bluebeard.
in my mind i group him with Enescu and Janacek.
>>64749818
Debussy WAS one of his biggest influences, but he does end up getting further away from it as it gets to his later compositions.
>>64743227
>>64743319
>>64743336
>>64743352
>>64743388
>>64744455
He's right though. At least in regards to Lizst, R. Schumann, Schubert, J. Strauss, and Debussy. He might be mistaken about Chopin and R. Strauss, but still...
Between sonatafags and symphonyfags, who are the worst?
>>64743924
Get into him through his etudes.
What techniques would be known by a violinist who's only completed Suzuki book 1? What's off limits to write, what's safe to assume she knows or should be able to learn easily? (Currently she's on the other side of the planet, so I can't easily ask her.)
I've written a simple composition, about 1.5 ~ 2 minutes long with a rather simple rhythm, for violin and piano. But I don't even know if slurs are on the table yet. And what about the fourth finger?
I think the reason a lot of people find Scriabin to be polarizing is that he has this kind of fluff and hype surrounding him due to his own egocentric personality and over exaggerated and hyper romantic mysticism. Combine that with his transcendentalism esque writings like I Am God and it is easy to expect his music to be this huge deal and I don't think it quite matches up to it. As Copland said, his stiff adherence to the sonata form in combination with the daring and idiosyncratic tonal language seems a bizarre fit, and he probably would have been better off if he experimented more with form.
As for Beethoven being bad... I don't care for his symphonies, but I saw his Missa Solemnis live and the Sanctus and Agnus dei brought me to tears. Such sensitive and beautiful music there. Plus, he was a pretty big influence on the composers I generally enjoy so I can't hate him at all.
>>64748759
>He doesn't quite fit
Of course he doesn't "ft" he's fucking bartok. He's probably the most unique composer of the 20th century.
>>64750196
late stringquartet fags
What a thread this is.
Anyway, I don't know what to listen to. Currently getting slightly drunk and listening to various bits of Saint-Saens' chamber music. All pleasant enough but it doesn't really hit any particular spot.
You're alright anti-formalism autist, I used to think you were beyond redeeming but I'm having a nice giggle to myself reading through this thread.
Listening to Rachmaninoff's 3rd piano concerto. Not as bad as I remembered actually
>>64748574
Me too lad. Most of the stuff might not be particularly groundbreaking, but nobody does comfy classical quite like late 19th/early 20th century English composers
>>64750350
Also fuck, the single instance of chromaticism I indulged in in the violin part doesn't appear in Suzuki book 1 at all. It's a G# on the D string.
Should I rewrite it or try to teach her how to play that note? G# on the D string doesn't appear in Suzuki book 1, but its equivalents C# and D# on the G and A strings respectively do appear in it.
More like Rzewski's The People United Will Never Be Defeated?
>>64748182
Do what? Repeat me? That's cool I guess. A lot of people repeated Beethoven too, hence his immediate universal impact on all of music.
>>64751158
not him but
He replaced "Beethoven" with "Bach".
>>64751001
>not his 1st
Pure plebeianism
>>64751400
>and then I noticed >>64751001 mentions nothing about whether it's the best or not.
I'm just in an argumentative mood today.
>>64751400
Same guy, the 1st is pretty bad though.
Not as bad as the 2nd (sat through it as part of a concert programme the other day and was reminded how it steadily goes downhill after the first movement) but I think the 3rd is probably the best Rach concerto. The Paganini rhapsody isn't bad either now that I think about it.
>>64748436
>>64749690
For more virginalists, listen to Orlando Gibbons, Thomas Tomkins, Giles Farnaby, Thomas Morley, and William Byrd
Some other composers you'll probably want to check out for Renaissance secular music are John Dowland, Anthony Holborne, Alfonso Ferrabosco, John Coprario, and John Bennet
I have to leave for work soon, so I can't make a very comprehensive list but if you want some albums, start with "A Treasury of English Keyboard Music" and "English Consort Music"
>>64751550
>1st
>pretty bad
How could you say such a thing
(It's been my experience that people who generally like Rach's music find that the 1st is the worst of his piano concertos, while people who generally dislike Rach's stuff consider the 1st to be the best. It's just different shades for different people, it seems)
How's Inghelbrecht's Pelléas et Mélisande?
>listening to the Miraculous Mandarin for the first time
>>64740473
what the fuck why do i unironically agree with this shitpost
>>64754456
Brain problems
meme it up
>>64755282
Where to start with Bartók?
>>64756573
anywhere
>>64756573
music for strings, percussion & celesta
six romanian folk dances
sonatina
piano concerto no. 3
>>64756573
Why ask this question? Pick something and listen to it.
>>64757005
he or she should at least start with bartoks mature works. most of those are masterpieces.
>>64756922
viola concerto too
Mikrokosmos if you have a shrewd ear
>>64740190
>films
>books
>food
All about taste. highly-regarded people in these fields tend to get praise and criticism.
>surgery
>architecture
>military
These measure more dramatic circumstances instead of taste. Experienced surgeons, architects and military officials aren't perfect. Sometimes they still jeopardize lives.
Just accept that the anon you were responding to had an opinion, and was referencing the opinions of critics. It doesn't mean you have to agree, but spouting false analogies is cringeworthy.
I don't even agree with that anon, but I get why he's riding Bartok's cock.
>>64740190
le why modern le art is le bad
>>64750350
>>64751104
I don't have any answers, but i have some questions if you'd like to answer
How did you get good enough to write for a violin without having one at hand?
How did you find someone to perform your work?
More like Mofart
What does /classical/ think of Sweelinck? I get the impression that he had a very important role in music history, but I don't think I've ever seen him mentioned here.
>>64757437
>recommending mikrokosmos
>>64739193
absolutely disgustiong
>>64756573
Miraculous Mandarin (full ballet. If it's less than a 30 minutes, you're getting swindled)
String Quartet No.4
Concerto for Orchestra
Bluebeard's Castle
>>64758895
yeah...so?
if you have something to say talk loud and clear...
>>64758497
He's mentioned quite often here
>>64748759
>I find his harmonic aesthetic really kind of unappealing
But it's hardly constant throughout his career. To use extremes, Kossuth, Bluebeard, his first violin sonata, and his third piano concerto could all be mistaken for works by different composers. They all display a masterful craftsmanship, but there is a tremendous stylistic diversity to Bartók's catalog. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I might have the impression that you haven't listened to a lot of his music outside of his quartets. While they give a decent overview of his life, I do think that the first and sixth (both products of depression) are both not excellent representations of his styles at their times, and his approach toward atonality and dissonance in the early 1920s goes unrepresented, sandwiched somewhere between the more "conservative" 2nd and 3rd quartets
>>64759275
That's not a very helpful recommendation toward someone looking to start out. For one, it's basically a learn-to-play-piano textbook until about book 5, but also its a shit ton of music. Recommend something specific and digestible like the six dances.
>>64759589
>it's basically a learn-to-play-piano textbook
like the WTC...
>but also its a shit ton of music
so, a wide range options is a bad thing?
Also i have specified: "if you have a shrewd ear"
Who is the best composer
>>64760624
Who is the best composer (non-meme post)
>>64760118
But unlike the WTC it doesn't start out with a masterpiece; it starts out with a five note finger exercise in whole notes.
And that's very counterintuitive. He clearly wanted a specific piece to listen to; else he wouldn't be asking for where to start.
>>64760919
Bach, Mozart, and Beethoven.
>>64760919
Probably Mozart. Oh boy, Mozart is good.
>>64760999
>>64761011
Further proof that Mozart is underrated
>>64760919
Bartók
>>64760997
dude
the WTC first book opening is pretty the same thing with the difference that the excercise consist in a very simple arpeggio.
>>64761377
It's more complex, and actually is a pretty listen. And you can't talk about it without mentioning the fugue.
>>64760919
It depends on personal taste. I'm very into russian romantic music, so Tchaikovsky, Rimsky-Korsakov and Liadov are very high on my list.
>>64760919
>>64745646
pleb spotted
>>64756573
don't waste your time
Memes!
>>64742740
He sure cared about the aesthetics of Hungarian folk music.
>>64742740
except he's not that original
>poly posting
>anit-Beethoven posting
The rise of "FPTBIU" is coming, calling it.
I just started listening to Liszt and it sounds pretty shit, am I on the right track?
>>64758226
Hopefully you're still here and will see this.
>How did you get good enough to write for a violin without having one at hand?
I guess the answer to that would be that I'm a cellist, and double majoring in performance and composition.
The question is moot, though, because I do have one at hand, though it's pretty terrible honestly
>How did you find someone to perform your work?
Well, she's my cousin / adopted sister, and she started playing violin the last time I traveled there last year. I don't want my music skills to rust away to nothing like last year's trip, so I thought I'd at least do some composing while I was there. (Really didn't expect to finish it so quickly, but then I've never composed something this short and simple.)
Now that I think about it, there's another issue. When I get there (since we're going to Japan for a week first) it'll have been around five weeks since she's touched her violin, because of some stupid fucking family drama going on, the sort Flips seem to specialize in. It's difficult for me to recover quickly after just one week of no practice, that said I don't know how that works with newer players, or if that even happens at all.
>>64751829
Post a better piano concerto then
>>64756573
Concerto for orchestra, IVth movement
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=610xovNQU-w
>>64765142
Where did I say he was original? I said he was "uncompromising". They aren't the same thing,
>>64766924
Whoa, didn't notice how much blogshit I was writing. Sorry.
>>64765960
>poly posting
what does this entail? I haven't seen Schnittke mentioned yet, and Martinů only got 1 post
>>64766935
>he didn't care about anyone's aesthetics other than his own
that implies his aesthetics were so unique when they weren't
>>64766935
Fuck off Poly.
>>64766935
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YhfM7B1L6YI
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TGQAipExghY
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7aUL7GuUFfg
>its not trendy to hate bartok
what the fuck has this general come to
>>64767720
*now
>>64767720
>if a few people have a contrary opinion to mine I guess everyone does
Lol thin skinned bartokfags
>>64767584
MEHZART
E
H
Z
A
R
T
>>64768710
>>64768758
wouldn't the faggot be the one who prefers girlish Mozart over Brahms?
>>64769028
>girlish
Rate requiems from best to worst.
>Verdi
>Brahms
>Mozart
>Fraure
>Berlioz
>>64769696
Actually, might swap Mozart with Brahms. I love em both, but Mozart's is just specially good.
>>64769696
>>64769705
A question about Mozart's Requiem, how much of it is actually by Mozart? I've heard conflicting accounts about this.
>>64769718
>At the time of Mozart's death on 5 December 1791, only the opening movement (Requiem aeternam) was completed in all of the orchestral and vocal parts. The following Kyrie and most of the sequence (from Dies Irae to Confutatis) were complete only in the vocal parts and the continuo (the figured organ bass), though occasionally some of the prominent orchestral parts were briefly indicated, such as the first violin part of the Rex tremendae and Confutatis and the musical bridges in the Recordare. The sixth movement of the sequence, the Lacrymosa, breaks off after only eight bars and was unfinished. The following two movements of the Offertorium were again partially done; the Domine Jesu Christe in the vocal parts and continuo (up until the fugue, which contains some indications of the violin part) and the Hostias in the vocal parts only.
>>64769718
He only managed to finish the Introit completely. We have the full vocal parts and continuo for the Kyrie, Sequence up to bar 8 of Lacrimosa, fragment of exposition of the Amen fugue that ends the sequence, the Offertory, the Hostias. Instruments come and go in these sections, since Mozart only put down the important details. We have nothing from the Sanctus, Agnus Dei and Communion.
>>64769747
beat me to it
>>64769696
God tier:
Verdi
Mozart
Britten
Pretty good tier:
Durufle
Ockeghem (and Josquin's 'Requiem' for Ockeghem is good too)
Morales
Faure
German tier:
Brahms
Verdi did it better tier:
Berlioz
Ok tier:
M. Haydn
Cherubini (in C minor)
Howells
Delius
Meh tier:
Victoria
Cherubini (in D Minor)
Boring tier:
Dvorak
What the fuck are you doing tier:
Rutter
Jenkins
>>64769747
>>64769752
Thanks. That's less than I expected.
>>64769696
>Lasso
>De la rue
>Palestrina
>Morales
>Victoria
>Brahms
>Schnittke
>Ligeti
>Mozart
>Ockeghem
>rest
>>64769843
>no Biber
you wankfuck doubledick
>>64769843
>German tier
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0G5b1Q3FzXo
>>64769696
The Anonymous one in the Leiden choirbooks, Richafort's and Manchicourt's are probably as good as they come, followed closely by Morales' five voice one.
microtonal tutti bump
>>64772341
>It's like meeting a person who has twice as many teeth than normal... haunting but beautiful
What are some good classical pieces for piano to practice?
>>64773195
The Well-Memed Klavier
>>64773195
all of them
>>64773475
What's your favorite?
Guys I had this dream that I was living with Bach. In the dream he was a distant relative that was somehow like 300 years old, still wore the wig, but refused to talk about his music. All he did was channel surf all day. I was a small child and there were other children in the house and he dispassionately told us to hold our noses and he let out a dry fart.
Classical music for this feel?
>>64774457
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S7m5R7FKVtk
DAILY REMINDER
Time to Entfuhrung auf dem Serail
>>64775947
aus*
>>64775593
for all his flaws i think wagner actually WAS a good husband to cosima.
>>64775593
>caring about the character of the composers instead of the quality of their music
>not listening exclusively to child rapists and murderers
Plebeian spotted.
>>64776837
>not listening exclusively to child rapists and murderers
Don't forget anti-semites! They're in the same category as child rapists and murderers.
>>64776837
Their character is perfectly reflected in their music though.
>>64775593
>mistaking Wagner's large hair with that deformed hair
>>64777346
*deformed skull
Scriabin's sonatas from best to worst:
Perfect: 6
Pretty damn good tier: 5
This has never been interpreted to its full potential so I don't know how this feels tier: 8
Such spooky tier: 9
Blah tier: 7
Are we being real right now tier: 1-4
Meme tier: 10
>pic related it's scriabin's muse
How do i into Beethoven? Where to start
>>64779008
Start by living in a cave and emitting nothing but grunts and squeals for a whole year.
>>64779008
Start with his piano Sonatas and Symphonies.
The Sonatas are easier to digest than the Symphonies, I would believe. Make sure you listen to the entirety of the works.
Some recs for starting out:
Sonata No. 14
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mtHKQWY6m80
Sonata No. 8
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AD1La6aUAng
Sonata No. 21
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lbblMw6k1cU
Symphony No. 5
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OV6Lp7cnX7s
Symphony No. 9
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QfrAXZC7GKA
Symphony No. 3
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nbGV-MVfgec
mem
>>64779008
>download all of Beethoven's works
>listen to a random one
>eventually listen to all of them
It's not hard
Hello /classical/!
Seeing as some of you have an interest in good artistic music, I want to know if you've had any experiences similar to this scene I wrote.
I call this one, The Idiot, The Intellectual and The Girl.
Idiot: Hey gurl can I get a whiff of your feet hurhurhur
Girl: I will have to think about it. First, let me know about your taste in music.
Idiot: Sure babe, I really like-
Intellectual: Hold on a second!
Girl: Oh my goodness! It's the intellectual!
Intellectual: That's right, it's me. I have to say, this moron is making a poor attempt at winning your feet.
Idiot: Lol fuck off nerd. You're gay.
Intellectual: Nice buzzwords. What were you going to say about your taste?
Idiot: I'm not going to tell you, faggot.
Intellectual: Why? Are you scared I will put my musical analysis skills to use?
Idiot: N-no. F-fine. My favorite band of all time are Death Grips.
Intellectual: Hahaha! Death Grips are a mediocre "industrial hip-hop" group that gain their popularity and praise by making immature, pseudo-intellectual, memetic for people either under the age of 7 or with an IQ less than 50! I suggest you get some taste before trying to get a woman with such beautiful feet.
Idiot: W-well how about your taste, huh? F-faggot!
Intellectual: Me? Well I listen to artistic music that you've probably never heard of and probably can't even comprehend.
Girl: Oh, intellectual please kiss my feet.
Intellectual: Gladly.
Idiot: F-fuck you! I-I'm going to listen to Death Grips now because I'm so frustrated that I'll never be this intelligent!
The end.
I recently listened to all of Beethovens symphonies.
Am I patrician now plz
>>64769028
Ives pls go
Where can I find a classical musician gf?
>>64780867
Beethoven's sonatas > his symphonies
>>64749690
if you like 20th century works, check out britten
>>64779008
opp. 47, 59/1 & 109.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CLRtN1KNCQk
Is this work really by Bach? Why does it sound so unbachian?
Can someone please listen to it (it lasts about 10 min) and give honest opinions?
Bach or not Bach?
Thaanxks
>>64780803
Speaking of feet, I knew someone who bit their toenails.
He had smelly feet and frequently got athlete's foot. He had many strange habits, not the least of which was biting his toenails. He'd put on some Art Music and sit on his bed after a long day flipping burgers. After he was settled in, he would peel off his sweaty socks. He'd stretch his leg out for a bit. Then, he would bend over and pull his foot up to his mouth and gnaw on his long, yellow, gnarled toenails. What you would expect to hear from someone trimming their nails - the sound of toenail clippers - was replaced by the sound of teeth clicking, along with the music of Mozart. Most people performing basic footcare would not want to put their feet in their mouth. Yet, while this man was not entirely dissimilar to the average man, he was still a bizarre specimen; after biting off his toenails he chewed and swallowed them.
Anyway, he did this for years, ever since he was a child. So, he'd sit on his bed and he'd do this artistic ritual, until one pitch-dark, bitingly cold, wintry night he overestimated his flexibility as he listened to a high-energy Beethoven symphony. He was negligent when it came to his diet and physical fitness. What should have been a simple task for him, one that he had achieved countless times before, ended in disaster. As he went to bite his toenails he injured his ribs. Such agony was he in, that he resorted to paying the doctor a visit at well beyond midnight. After a long drive through snowy streets, to the sound of a Bach harpsichord concerto, he arrived at the hospital. However, there was not much the doctor could do. The doctor could only recommend that he listen to some relaxing art music from an underrated composer. And listen he did. The house was filled with the dulcet tones of Mozart's Requiem, night and day, although it wasn't enough. Alas, even to this day, the pain will sometimes torment him. It is an eternal reminder of his foolishness and odd habits.
>>64781102
Concert halls, at your school/uni's music department, at instrument shop, etc
where do I go to learn to play the organ? church?
>>64783602
You shouldn't support outdated business organizations. If you're really interested in playing that instrument in particular you should maybe start with a keyboard and work your way from there.
>>64776696
Yes. He made Parsifal exclusive to Bayreuth for as long as possible just so the income could provide for her and their family after his death.
Also the celebratory Siegfried Idyll, which was written for her and his son, is probably one of the most beautiful things he wrote, and I'm not particularly a Wagner fan.
>>64783602
Yes.
>>64783753
Well tipped.
Not him but wouldn't it be simpler just to get a digital organ?
>>64748574
Yeah, personally I really like Handel!
>>64784285
And JC Bach. In fact, Mozart was influenced by both of those people. He could perhaps be the most English composer of all.
>>64778841
>not listening to the Sofronitsky 8th
>implying 4 isn't one of the most ecstasy filled pieces ever composed
>implying the third movement of the third sonata isn't one of the most soothing and beautiful movements in the sonata genre
6/10 I took it now I am mad, anyways here's the perfect 8th ever recorded
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NLVv-YOZQx8
