I have to admit that when this piece debuted, I was put off by it, but I decided to read it again yesterday, and it has a lot of salient points, especially given that just last week white people were making memes about Beyonce being a shitty pop artist, and now this week they're dying for fucking Radiohead.
Give this piece a read, I'd love to hear from you guys.
fuck off p4k shill
Someone should write an article called "The Unbearable Blackness of Rap"
I like Beyonce and Radiohead but obviously I can relate to Radiohead more. Why is that so hard for people to get? Anything white people do just has to get shit on now I guess if you want clickbait bux
>>64721858
That's myopic. Radiohead blew the fucking internet up yesterday. Just because white culture is occasionally criticized in articles like this one doesn't mean that it isn't the (most definitely) dominant culture.
brb reading
>>64721818
Good luck making that piece not centered on your own latent racism.
>>64721908
Kinda like this one?
>>64721969
I don't think the article is about racism, or even prejudice. It's about the cultural bias within a scene.
>>64721881
Not for much longer, it will be the norm in 5 years
>>64721818
It exists and it's not very good. https://youngblackconservative.wordpress.com/2015/03/25/the-unbearable-blackness-of-hip-hop-and-rap/
>>64722014
What will be?
Mods kill racebait threads on /mu/ plz xoxo
Anybody who isn't bias to the left or a dumbass /pol/tard can see white people dominate everything in music
hip hop wouldn't be where it is if white kids didn't start liking it. they make up majority of the profits
It's just self hating whites are easy to target with these "straight white males are bad" articles that bring in the traffic for a week. until their fav band releases something again
Look at that beyonce fiasco where that one white lady tweeted its okay for black females to enjoy the record its not for "other" whites
they mean well but white people have entitlement issues no matter what political side they choose
Begone, Tumblr scum!
>>64722105
Race war now
>>64721858
Not true, shilling your agenda, carrying out your marching orders like a good little soldier. Know what gives you away?
>Why is that so hard for people to get?
It's not. No one talks about this stuff but racists, white and black. The vast majority doesn't care at all. You do.
>>64722130
nah not gonna happen
besides the internet nobody IRL cares about this shit
The problem I have with these articles generalizing whiteness is it's so ridiculously Amero-centric. What "whiteness" signifies can be, and often is, a different thing than your average Joe white American. I constantly see these types of articles and think pieces reflecting on the "dominant" culture being white and how whiteness signifies power, or beauty, etc. While in a Western society I do agree that being white has its obvious benefits, but people in Italy, or Ireland, or Russia, or a bunch of other white-populated countries have completely different cultures and views regarding their own culture, but the American far left is very content to just lump all of these people and there own struggles into a big ball of "whiteness."
>>64721885
Alright, I'm back.
Aso I should mention that I'm a black guy.
Anyway,
First thing: the title. I don't like that she used the title of one of my favorite books The Unbearable Lightness of Being, a work of existential fiction with highly relevant political themes, banned in certain countries, to title her essay about microaggression. that's just done in bad taste, imo.
>In indie rock, white is the norm. While indie rock and the DIY underground, historically, have been proud to disassociate themselves from popular culture, there is no divorcing a predominantly white scene from systemic ideals ingrained in white Western culture.
That's pretty much a synecdoche of the whole written piece. That's the heart of it.
Then at the end she says "we gotta stop with all this whiteness" or something to that effect.
Her primary examples include Belle and Sebastian, and MIA.
frankly, I disagree with the whole damn thing and it's rooted in flawed thinking.
Treating a group of individuals as an institutionalized collective with singular motives and agenda is fallacious.
Also by saying white people get all the success and attention while POC don't is just a flat out lie.
This board is constantly complaining about all the black people. We see it everywhere, saying we don't isn't going to change that.
And lel at the "we are brainwashed to believe white is the default of beauty"
white girls are not cute. maybe my brain isn't as susceptible to subliminal marketing or im not as impressionable.
0/10 I wish I cooked breakfast instead
>>64721881
you think radiohead is bigger than beyonce? delusional
>>64722157
I know 90% of people dont give a fuck, but there is an audience for this culture war clickbait garbage and it's annoying to see it pop up all over the internet.
>>64721726
Who are the 2 qts
>>64722311
cont. I will admit though that the article is accurate and raises some very good points
>>64721726
I'm not even white and fucking hell I still hate that """"article"""".
>>64721726
here's a good response :
http://ripfork.com/2015/03/response-to-the-unbearable-whiteness-of-indie-by-sarah-sahim/
this article is the literal reason why i hate p4k. articles like this make so much money because of how stupid they are. its just media baiting. fuck them
>>64722311
Yeah, it's a very myopic way of seeing things. I guess 'white' can work as a comedy tongue-in-cheek way of saying 'middle class', but it often seems to be used without any humour so it just comes across as dumb.
>>64721726
The article isn't bad. Definitely not the trash this board makes it out to be.
That being said I didn't like the new Beyonce much and I loved the new Radiohead. Pretty sure that doesn't make me a racist, so don't imply that it does, asshole.
>this week they're dying for FUCKING radiohead
OP you know Radiohead is literally the most acclaimed band of the 21st century right? Don't pretend you don't understand why people go nuts over them
>>64722311
It's America though. This shit is mostly an American problem. They do it the other way too. All blacks do this, all blacks dress like this, all blacks listen to this, all blacks act like this, all blacks think like this. There's no nuance. Sensible people know better though.
If given article is clickbait, reposting of said article is racebait. Doesn't matter who's doing it.
To your larger point, racists in America don't see Italians, Irish, Polish as much as they see white. They don't see the 100+ some different ethnicities of Africa and the Carribean. They see black. Mexico, Latin America, South America, brown. This is how racists think. Many work in the media here.
>>64722342
I'm sort of confused when it says that whiteness in indie rock is the norm, like... Fair enough? But that's how its history developed, that itself isn't a bad or weird thing to me, unless other non-white people can't get into the music scene.
But it's just myopic to expect music scenes to not have audiences which are majority white or black, funk, soul, jazz and hip hop are all heavily dominated by black artists, indie rock, classical, prog, and metal is generally a white genre. I think it's better to have all people of different cultures in each genre but it's not because of white culture that indie music is white, it just fucking is that way, I guess.
>>64722342
Thank you
>reading about music
Holy fuck do people actually do this? Can't you just listen to the music and form your own opinions? It's really pathetic how many music-centric websites make their living off of poor saps who feel he need to have their views validated.
>>64722478
Yes it confuses me greatly, it always says that "ALL WHITES HAVE THIS SPECIFIC EXPERIENCE" or "ALL BLACKS HAVE THIS SPECIFIC EXPERIENCE."
Obviously it's to make a broader point about race issues and racism in the US but it's just so utterly devoid of nuance that it becomes painful to read. I'm white, sure, but I've never had the apparent luxury of immense social status just for the color of my skin, and if I have a problem with a generalization like that it turns into "oh, well, it's a BROADER point, we're talking about privilege, etc." but they never specify this.
this is the worst board
>>64722311
Steering the conversation away from class and towards race, gender, sexuality, etc., was the most genius move the CIA ever pulled.
These people are just mad because they know whatever flavor of week bullshit hipster hop they want white people listening to in an attempt to atone for their sins will never be listened to fifty years from now.
Meanwhile Radiohead made kid A, which is this generations dark side of the moon. People will look back on that shit fifty years from now and it will still feel fresh.
These people think every white space in society must be invaded because that's where all the actually creative shit comes from. Whites are the only people still making anything that could be considered art in an era where bullshit like Drake is supposed to shape the culturally zeitgeist.
Beyoncé singing about killing cops and analingus will never compare to Radiohead. Sorry niggers.
>>64722003
hmm
>>64721726
>I have to admit that when this piece debuted, I was put off by it, but I decided to read it again yesterday, and it has a lot of salient points
You sound awfully white just posting like this.
And this:
>>64721818
It's a style by white people, it's going to thus be white people making music with a kind of white sensibility. Guess what - race, culture, etc exists and produces its own distinct styles usually. Who cares.
>>64721726
LINK THE ARTICLE YOU STUPID FUCKING FAGGOT
>>64722359
>>64722497
I don't think that's what the article is saying. The article doesn't posit a bunch of black artists with jangle-guitars are being kicked out of clubs, but rather that this white sort-of non-culture is a snake eating it's own tail. Compare the thesis of this article to the constant dismissal of black performers based on a pre-conceived notion of black music vs the readily-wave of white "london-based" electronic artists who always are frowning in pictures.
>>64722597
I've taken to quotes lately. 'Black people' can like the Smiths too. 'White people' can also enjoy MF Doom. It's really not that difficult a concept. People hung up on race are the ones who make it this way.
>>64722581
well with that attitude writing about anything would be pointless
and if you don't like reading about music im not sure how you ended up on the board where all you do is read about music dumb faggot
>>64722659
Jesus Christ shut the fuck up faggot. No one thinks Beyonce and Drake are BETTER THAN RADIOHEAD. No one thinks Lemonade is an achievement comparable to KID A. Stop with your nonsense. The adults grow weary of you more and more everyday.
>>64722638
Not even sure if I'd give it to the CIA but to power in general. You're 100% correct tho.
>>64722733
I've never met a black who would be caught dead listening to The Smiths or MF Doom
>>64722845
Get out more
>>64722719
Can you show me about the "constant dismissal" of black artists? Are many black artists not some of the most popular musicians on the planet? Is hip hop not one of the most popular genres in America and completely rooted in black history?
This is what I mean, "white-non-culture" is a ridiculous statement to me. Do you think that the Irish do not have their own culture? Or the Scottish? Or British?
What exactly IS the article positing, then? That white people have no culture (complete nonsense) or that non-white people aren't able to be a part of the scene?
>>64722719
>Compare the thesis of this article to the constant dismissal of black performers based on a pre-conceived notion of black music...
>dismissing an artist based on race/sex/religion/literally anything but their music
as openly racist and sexist as /mu/ seems, that's actually the one thing we don't do here.
NOBODY gets dismissed for any reason beyond their music.
>>64722342
I hear what you're saying. Thank you for a measured response. Also, there is still time to cook breakfast.
While I think that generalizing the indie scene is unfair, I think it's basic themes and aesthetic are an echo chamber. It seems to move within itself, oblivious the the machinations of the outside world. As the article states, even when bands inside the scene adopt sounds from the outside, the point of reference is contrived IE peele talking about Vampire Weekend's world-influence in terms of another white guy who co-opted those WILD AFRICAN RHYTHMS, who himself did not care so much for Africa or it's ongoing struggles at the time. Paul Simon is a fucking musical colonial, but that's for another time.
And while it's easy to point to non-white musical success, I think about this in terms of the success probability of whites vs blacks, not just the idiosyncrasies between white pop artists and black pop artists.
If nothing else, it does not take much looking to decide that the success of someone like Drake was largely dependent on white teenagers.
>>64722845
I'm a black guy who listens to both the smiths and DOOM
>>64722922
How rich are your parents?
yes, give it more attention
>>64722822
I both agree and disagree. Drake is mostly a joke. His music isn't bad sometimes, sometimes it's even very good, but his actual popularity is based on a joke. He's not a great rapper, he doesn't produce his own stuff. He's a personality, and he's a personality that's heavily anchored in self-conscious parody of his character from Degrassi. It's really dorky.
Beyonce however is a completely different story. She's the real deal, a celebrity who is a celebrity based on her ability, a celebrity who is a celebrity you can look up to because she's not fucking around doing stupid shit all the time. She created her own image. Drake can only wish for that.
Lots of people genuinely believe both Drake and Beyonce are "better than Radiohead" unless you live in a bubble, you'd know this
>>64722638
America 2016: HOW COME WHY COME MY GROUP YOUR GROUP MY RACE YOUR RACE MY SEX YOUR SEX I WANT WHAT'S MINE RIGHT NOW
Whatever you do, CHILDREN, do not point the finger at the literal fucking billionaires who greenlight the mass culture you're exposed to on the daily and has reduced your thinking to such a toddler-like state.
>>64722903
>in terms of another white guy who co-opted those WILD AFRICAN RHYTHMS, who himself did not care so much for Africa or it's ongoing struggles at the time.
would his paying lip-service to this have made any difference artistically or socially or ethically? no.
people can be influenced by a form whenever they please, all cultures take influences from others sometimes. there is no crime in this and nothing needs to be done to lessen the 'colonialism' in it. it's called influence.
do black blues artists owe 'white people' anything for working within western tonality, or making changes to forms taken from English/Irish folk music? people forget that the majority of the form was 'white' with a different 'feel' with slight tonal changes, and new lyrical/vocal styling. similarly, white artists might sometimes take influence from black artists and, as it happens, make it sound more white.
Fuck off, OP.
>>64722899
>>64722878
There is definitely no denying the popularity of some black artists, but those artists only achieve mainstream popularity by way of white media.
As for the culture bit, yeah guys, a lot of white people are culture-free, unless you count the culture of generally privileged white people. I'm an American, so I really can't speak to the culture of European whites. Generally speaking, you all have more cultural roots than American whites just by way of having an older civilization. You guys have hundreds and hundreds of years of tradition, folk songs and shit, when America has really only culturally bloomed during the 20th century.
So to that end, this is all a fairly American perspective on either side, but this is a US-based website, reporter, and (mostly) US -based musical scene.
Unfortunately, that's kind of the breaks. The continued cultural imperialism of America still informs the culture of the world today, largely.
>>64722680
Yah, I don't care who is making the music, as long as it is good.
>>64723022
/thread
>>64723085
I basically believe in what you're saying. I'm not saying that it makes a lot of difference where a band like VP gets it sound from, but just that the indie scene is very insular in its modus operandi, and latently enforces weird cultural values.
>>64723091
Well fair enough I suppose, I do realize that this is focused on America. Loads of racism in Europe of course, especially these days, but it's a different perspective. You make a good point about them only achieving popularity through white media though.
>>64722765
there's a difference between reading a publication that lives off of the clicks and a free and public forum
>>64722903
>While I think that generalizing the indie scene is unfair, I think it's basic themes and aesthetic are an echo chamber. It seems to move within itself, oblivious the the machinations of the outside world
I agree, most genres do that before they die
> As the article states, even when bands inside the scene adopt sounds from the outside, the point of reference is contrived IE peele talking about Vampire Weekend's world-influence in terms of another white guy who co-opted those WILD AFRICAN RHYTHMS, who himself did not care so much for Africa or it's ongoing struggles at the time
I see what you're saying, but again, I disagree. I don't think an artist has to win the hearts of a collective culture before incorporating their drumstyle or idiosyncrasies into their art. I do think that it's BETTER, but not necessary.
Speaking of, look at SLEEP CYCLES, Deakin's solo release. He lived in Africa, understood their culture, released SC with obvious african influence, even included two recordings of African artist's live performance, but p4k never bothered to review it, even though it was genre-defying and done in good taste. But here we are talking about vamp weekend.
>If nothing else, it does not take much looking to decide that the success of someone like Drake was largely dependent on white teenagers
I would say that Drake owes his success to hype and groupthought in a nation of predominantly whites, so his fanbase would be inherently mostly white
>>64723263
>>64723151
I don't really feel like I have anything to add to either of these, but I am excited and happy that this discussion played out the way it did. Hooray for all three of us.
>>64722719
>vs the readily-wave of white "london-based" electronic artists who always are frowning in pictures.
kekked hard at this
>>64722659
god plebs are so delusional
>>64721726
>I decided to read it again yesterday, and it has a lot of salient points
fuck off
>>64722342
>Aso I should mention that I'm a black guy.
why does race matter so much to liberals? why do we have to have a pre-conceived notion of your content based on your skin color? why can't we judge a person on the content of their character rather than the color of their skin? why mention race at all?
this really fucking bothers me
The unbearable blackness in rap?
>>64722130
HELTER SKELTER
>>64724635
If people were judging others by the content of their character, we probably wouldn't need to worry about the police killing black people with no regard. Race and civil rights continue to be the most pressing issue in the US. Race matters.
>>64725005
>cops killing blacks with no regard
A meme. And not a good one
>>64724635
>how could someones experience influence their opinions?
>>64721726
i-is that gilly? from game of thrones?
>>64721726
>the Unbearable Jewishness of Klezmer
>the Unbearable Blackness of Funk
>>64721726
CASSIE!!
>>64722463
He is a fucking nigger so what do you expect?
>>64721726
what the fuck happened with beyonce and radiohead?
>>64722003
>It's about the cultural bias within a scene.
right, like the cultural bias against non-whites in the hip hop scene
>>64722845
>I've never met a black
fixed that for you mate
reminder
>>64727885
Am I supposed to be shocked because she talks about race a lot? Most of those tweets are presented with no context. In any case, about half of them are funny, and the inflammatory ones are all true. She's not out of line in any of these. She finds the non-culture of American whites as abhorrent as I do --and I'm white.
>>64722003
You are fucking stupid.
>>64724635
I said that because OP was an obvious p4k shill and I didn't want her to dismiss my points regarding racism
by assuming I was white.
>>64722987
Middle class as fuck.
Grew up lower class.
>>64722659
>Beyoncé singing about killing cops and analingus
kek
does she actually sing about eating ass
>>64728330
>implying you wouldn't eat dat booty like groceries
>>64727885
these people are psychotic
>>64728441
i don't think that's her
>>64722659
This tbqfh genetically related person.
I wouldn't say that Radiohead is a good example but even if you look at the actually creative people, it's still whites.
Also, the meme that the fast boogy that was initiated by Ike Turner and then refined by Chuck Berry and Bo Diddley and copied by the white rockabilly singers is the "same genre" as the innovations that came post-1965 by white people is an anti-white myth. pre-1960s rock is closer to boogie and r/b, while white innovators started to remove blues influences and drew upon elements of folk, folk rock, jazz (which isn't as black dominated as people think), and classical equally as much if not more than 1950s black "rock".
Whenever people want to insert blacks into the history of rock, what do they do? They point out some shitty, uptempo boogie and call it a "predecessor", or they point out very heavily spiced up and modified (and much, much better) white covers of old black pieces and then snidely remark about how "talented" blacks must therefore be. With the possible exception of Jimi Hendrix (the only true black participator in generating innovative sounds, and then only on guitar, and then only in some aspects of guitar) they can never point to a black person that simply beats contemporary whites by dint of his/her music being superior in and of itself, especially after 1965.
Radiohead are definitely better than any black musicians in the last 25 years, and the hell of it is that RADIOHEAD REALLY ISN'T THAT GREAT. That's the kicker: the detractors of radiohead have a ton of good points about how overrated radiohead is, and whites are still so much better than blacks at music that fucking *Radiohead* blows every black musician out of the water.
The perception that blacks make any worthwhile music, or anything worthwhile in any subject matter at all, in comparison to whites, is a nu-male forced meme.
>>64722659
autechre listen to hip hop
>>64728786
This. I think you're wrong about one exception post-WWII and that would be that Charles Mingus had hands down the best album of 1963 over every other whitey. That's the only one though.
>>64728786
>inb4 some nu-male replies to you telling you to go back to /pol/ even though your post relays very obvious facts.
>>64728786
i mean you talk a lot of talk but at the end of it is just 'i don't like this', 'i do like this'
there's no point in trying to correct you, i can talk about quincy jones, nile rodgers, or sly dunbar, but you will say you don't like them, and that will be that
>>64721818
we aren't allowed to comment on that!!!
Bands make music. other people label them
>mentioning a terrible artist like Heems next to a GOAT like M.I.A
always hated that article desu
What is stopping different races from making Indie music? Maybe they are just not interested
>>64721726
Maybe it's just me but I think I'm doing a decent job bearing it.
>>64724842
she's coming down fast.............
>>64729711
they do, but then immediately it's not 'indie' is it
stupid bullshit media word to begin with
>>64728004
cuck
>>64729811
I GOT BLISTERS ON ME FINGERS
>>64728004
What do you mean white Americans don't have "culture?" Is this like people thinking they don't speak with an accent? Because you do, even if you don't notice it. Even if you feel the need to curse your heritage or something.
>>64730062
underrated post
>>64729043
True, but things about the subjectivity of music will only be acknowledged by these pushers of black being "great" when they are pressed upon the issue.
Also, *innovation* is less subjective and can be traced by actually examining compositions, and innovation is dominated by whites almost completely, and sometimes by east Asians.
good post here
"To me the article shows an immense lack of scope on her part. It also proves once again that the idea of "genres" is often more destructive than helpful.
She refines her concept of "indie" music to solely traditional rock and roll styles-and also sticks to just the United States when there are handfuls of inventive people of all backgrounds making music around the world.
She completely ignores the independent hip hop scene. An article called "The Unbearable Blackness of Hip Hop" could be written and say the exact same things about that genre. Groups like Run the Jewels, Death Grips and Shabazz Palaces are just as revered and integral to the indie scene as Belle and Sebastian.
She is completely ignorant of the idea that music comes from a place of culture, experiences and familiarity. A Black kid growing up in Brooklyn isn't going to hear his parents playing Dylan and the Stones and won't be spinning Radiohead and Sonic Youth. They're more likely to be surrounded by Marvin Gaye, James Brown, Nas and A Tribe Called Quest. Of course there will be those who seek out different stuff and there are examples of those kinds of artists such as MIA who is mentioned in her article
All of this is besides the sad fact that it is financially more feasible for racial minorities (who are on average worse off than majorities) to pick up a microphone and beat making software than a drum kit and electric guitar.
Of course the tweet is the nail in the coffin. Think pieces about diversity, representation etc are always good to have in any industry and culture, even if many people disagree with the points made. These discussions need to be had. But when a writer faces any attempt at debate with "Yes, I got people angry!" instead of proceeding to engage in mature discourse, that crumbles any points they were trying to make-legitimate or not."
>>64729043
>"X, y, and z black person are soooo great you guys ;) They invented rock and roll"
>That's not true. We can trace the influences and it is much more homogeneously white than you are asserting
>"Well, music is subjective so what are you on about? ;)"
>>64722311
>>64722638
>>64723081
>/thread
>>64730320
Nice post. That should seriously be shown to the original author. Not that she'd take it to heart in any way, of course.
>>64721818
geg
>>64726356
>The Unbearable Latinoness of Latin
I think it's just because most black people don't like indie.
>>64728004
Her tweets are funny, but not intentionally
>white people
baka
m
h
The Unbearable Shiteness of Journalism
white people are the devil
>>64732419
#blacklivesmatter #wewuzkangs
>>64728570
no she's just a fucking obnoxious asshole
t. have actually experienced psychosis and am not this fucked up
>>64728004
no hardly any of that is true, it's either wildly inaccurate/insensitive/careless or needlessly provocative, all coming from a place of immense feelings of superiority
it's about as funny as falling into a bush of nettles
>>64730723
However, black hip-hop artists are pushed and pushed and pushed and pushed and pushed and top 40 radio and Rolling Stone magazine, the REAL monolithic domains in which these "billionaires" (advertisers and record companies) actually operate the most aggressively because it's where they can force meme their artists and have it work on unusually dumb whites and run-of-the-mill blacks and hispanics in order to get their political tripes across.
This is all part of a visceral anti-white hate movement, and it's why whites who are being attacked for having a general taste in white musicians have every right to use the same tactical reasoning to put these people on their back foot and deliver some punches against their mythology about how much "better at music" blacks supposedly are.
It's not one bit true, and it's why people should gain a thorough understanding of the development and evolution of music and who is responsible for various innovations, and not just force-memed "innovations" that overcredit blacks with having mythically ridiculous amounts of influence ("Chuck Berry had the most prominent guitar of his time, therefore the Velvet Underground, the Beatles, the Beach Boys, Frank Zappa, and Pink Floyd was all thanks to black people"). And when their ficiticious standards for importance are pointed out, we get "Why are you harping on me mannn music is like, subjective dudddee." even though a second ago they were huffing up how heavenly awesome at music their faithful colored companions are.
It's amazing how defensive people here are against this journalistic nu-male and catlady coalition that attacks them based on a visceral hatred for white people. People should 1) ignore their claims and 2) punch back questioning the supposed godliness of black music without the logical responsibility of questioning their favorite white artists, because that favor ISN'T returned by these accusatory journalists in the opposite direction.
>>64733338
ok this is fucking stupid though
frank zappa directly got his guitar playing style from black blues musicians, david gilmour is massively inspired by blues music, also, those statements don't hold up.
as for the comments about an anti-white hate movement I genuinely can't tell if it's just satire.
>>64733338
the real /thread/. It is unbelievable how much credence is paid to these fags that wag their finger at us on Twittter if we don't like the latest faggotry from Beyonce, Drake, Kanye, and other blacks.
>>64733445
>He can't point out one single black musician whose ACTUAL music is better than a contemporary white musicians and has to backslide to the dubious "predecessor" argument
WOW. WHAT A SURPRISE. IT'S ALMOST AS IF THAT ALWAYS HAPPENS.
>>64733540
okay that isn't what I was addressing, but anyway, if you want a single black musician whose ACTUAL music is better (or equal to) than contemporary white musicians then listen to a stevie wonder record for fucks sake
dozens of others as well, though
>>64733445
Okay, but Zappa's innovations in conducting dwarfed the innovations of blacks ("blues guitar") and it is dubious as to whether "blues guitar" originated with blacks. Pink Floyd's innovations also dwarf black people's.
And that's just the thing, is that this post-1965 art rock music and psychedelic that uses hundredth derivations of blues techniques in addition to a massive conglomeration of jazz (including white jazz), classical, country, and white folk music influences is then credited to blacks because blacks were involved in a ghost of a whisper of a dream of a way.
>>64733601
>stevie wonder
Literally laughed. Case closed in favor of whitey.
>>64733690
I agree that crediting all innovations in guitar rock music to black people is disingenuous and ignorant at best, but I think your motives here for saying this are probably coming from a place of racism and hatred, maybe.
Zappa's innovations does not "dwarf" black musicians contributions to music at all, and it's ironic especially considering one of, if not his greatest albums (Hot Rats) is deeply inspired by jazz music, a genre heavily populated and led by black people.
But I think that you are missing the point, anyway.
>>64733489
If you don't like black pop stars you're an evil racist.
>>64733723
okay
>>64733803
But your response was to a guy who was literally saying that post-1965 art rock emphatically does NOT come all because of black people.
That is LITERALLY the claim you are countering in >>64733690, but you just switched your position after realizing how retarded this attribution was and then started to claim that the argument is about whether or not black people are the primary influence but whether or not they have literally any influence at all, which is not what was actually being talked about.
And yes, Zappa's "Hot Rats" is much, much better and more creative than ANY black jazz music and we have yet another example of a genre becoming good only when co-opted by white people, and I have listened to a ton of black jazz records.
>>64733948
I meant to link to >>64733445 not the one I ended up linking to.
I have to admit that when this piece debuted, I was put off by it, but I decided to read it again yesterday, and it has a lot of salient points, especially given that just last week white people were making memes about Franz Xaver Richter being a shitty classical artist, and now this week they're dying for fucking Cannabich.
Give this piece a read, I'd love to hear from you guys.
>>64728786
Do people who make posts like this even listen to music?
>>64733948
>Zappa's "Hot Rats" is much, much better and more creative than ANY black jazz music
jesus christ lmao
>>64735376
also Zappa was barely "white" by racist /pol/ standards. he looked like a fucking Arab and had some Arab ancestry.
>>64721726
black people just arent good at it.
See : Bloc Party
Deak if you're reading this, I'm sorry
>>64735303
>Nervous laughter the post
"W-well you must just not listen to music! Fuck having researched the origin of early genres!"
>>64735376
>He's still trying to force meme black borecore.
Holy fuck lol.
>>64727885
I can't imagine being this obsessed with a race, she's revolving her fucking life around this shit.
>>64735733
>by racist /pol/ standards
But by microsatellite clustering and by eye he would be considered a white guy. Light skinned people from the middle east are functionally identical to whites once the cultural wall of Islam is removed.
>>64721726
I fucking hate it when people bring identity politics into art.
Yeah i know the two can be connected when art makes a statement about the world but for fucks sake.
When people want diversity in music they dont actually want to find it, they want it spoonfed to them so they can say they're open minded. Black indie music is fucking out there, and it is not hard to find if you want to find it. But people who write things like that dont want to find it, they want other people to look for it for them. Music is easily the most diverse when it comes to creators. Every culture has music, every culture evolves musically, and basically everyone likes music.
If you want a white singing reggae its there, if you want an asian rapping its there, if you want a black guy doing punk music its there.
Also, im sure the author of that piece is the same type who claims eminem is racist and culturally appropriates black music. I wonder how they feel about Awkwafina, not black but "appropriates" black music.
TLDR, fuckers need to realize that you cannot politics cannot dictate art. The only way art is politicized is if the piece wants it to be, and indie rock does not.
>>64722105
>country is predominately white
>most things in country have white people participating
wow i fucking wonder why.
Fuck off
>>64736162
then please elaborate on your "research" with reliable academic sources (blogs and stormfag propaganda sites don't count) so far all you've done is say "blacks are overcredited b/c I say so, wake up sheeple!" without any recourse to music thoery or composition
>>64736261
so they're "white" when you want to claim their achievements but "not white" when they're migrating to Europe
>>64730320
Thank you for this. I'm sure the author of the piece would never in a million years expect something as reasonable as what you said to come out of the depths of /mu/...her loss.
https://chrswlkrvs.com/2015/03/28/the-insufferable-racism-of-sarah-sahim/ Thought this was a solid response.
>>64721726
It's retarded that they focused on a film that took place in a city that is literally 98+% white.
>>64728004
cuck
>>64728004
what do you mean by non-culture? Wait, first, what do you mean by culture? Because every living person has a culture (excluding people born braindead). If you want to talk about taste, that's something different entirely...If you've ever taken an intro-sociology class (and I'm guessing you have because you seem like the kind of person who describes themselves as "woke af") then you know that culture merely refers to the "beliefs, customs, arts, etc., of a particular society, group, place, or time" (definition courtesy of merriam-webster). If you think something is "corny" , "weak", or "watered-down" go ahead and say it, but don't make a sweeping generalizations like that without expecting someone to call you out on your bullshit.
>>64736227
inferiority complex + BPD, just bet
why do white people get so butthurt?
>>64738690
The fact that whites are getting constantly criticized for merely existing is just a reflection of how hyper-butthurt non-whites are.
>>64738623
don't lump all people with BPD in with this retard please
Deak, if you're still reading this, it's too late
>>64721726
as an actual genuine POC (Mexican) I have to say I dislike 'indie' music because it's cancerous commodified fey bullshit. The American Empire Must be Destroyed.
>>64723091
holy shit man. you cracked the code with this one. thank you for putting in words what I've been trying to say for so long
>>64738899
just go look at literally any feminist blog and you could learn this, it's not guarded information
Are Dean Blunt and TV On The Radio indie? Just asking, you know, for a friend.
Just joined this thread, all I can say is this:
I'm glad 99% of this shit is only online because I'm pretty convinced that most of these stupid race "issues" are straw man as fuck.
Not once have I ever spoken to anyone about any of this social justice garbage irl. Most of the people I know are normie as fuck and getting on with more important things in life.
At this point I avoid anything to do with social justice, liberalism, gamer gate, feminism online. It just makes me angry because I'm pretty thoroughly convinced that this shit isn't happening in real life like the Internet makes it out to be.
>>64738953
i've heard tv on the radio described as art rock but yeah they're fucking indie as it comes
>>64739009
it isn't it's just a bunch of dipshits on both sides getting their knickers in a twist over nothing
oh no the whiteness of indie whatever shall we do
>>64725005
>police killing blacks with no regards.
fucking hell you fucks already invaded /mu/ how about going to /pol/ for awhile.
>>64723091
>but those artists only achieve mainstream popularity by way of white media.
Booo hooo. None of the blacks that become popular deserve to be as popular as they are and they are part of an aggressive self-castrating nu-male campaign to be endlessly acknowledged.
>As for the culture bit, yeah guys, a lot of white people are culture-free
A word salad. 'Culture' is such a shitty bugaboo term that I could describe some inane thing that US whites do and it's "not culture" because of some made up reason, and this is somehow a bad thing as well.
>>64739035
That's why I avoid it completely now. I used to look at this shit all the time and it didn't nothing but frustrate me and I assumed because it was widespread online that it was widespread in real life.
It's not. Not at all. No one talks about this stuff. Ever. And if they do, I've never seen it.
People (myself included) need to separate the Internet from real life. They are certainly very different facets of life.
>>64739086
None of the blacks that become popular deserve to be as popular as they are and they are part of an aggressive self-castrating nu-male campaign to be endlessly acknowledged.
Whoa. Go outside.
>>64739107
It is good to keep this perspective but what journalists say eventually seeps into general discourse.
>>64725005
Fun fact: Blacks are not targeted by the police and we know this because whites are more likely to be killed by police after controlling for violent criminality.
>>64739156
I'm also pretty thoroughly convinced that words like "cuck" and "nu-male" are also straw mans. I can't imagine people discussing this drivel in real life.
>>64721818
Nah, an article about the Unbearable Whiteness of Neofolk would be better.
>>64739156
>Whoa dude like man dude hahaha dude like you must not go outside or something hahaha
Nice rebuttal to this very, very obvious fact.
>>64739186
This whole battle of feminism, race and social justice has been going on since at least 2010 or so and I've still never met anyone who discusses this kind of thing at length.
>>64739009
>I avoid anything to do with social justice, liberalism, gamer gate, feminism online
obviously not
>>64739107
US in 2016 is like Weimar Germany in 1930 just everyone is Autistic. You have cartoon trump nazis on one side and degenerate commie sjws, while milquetoast establishment watches on helplessly.
>>64739246
I stumbled across this thread, what can I say?
>>64739208
Well, so too is "racist", so who cares.
>>64739219
http://pbskids.org/arthur/games/factsopinions/
>>64739283
I'm glad I don't live in America. It seems to be very centric to the US. We have relatively strong liberalism in Australia but no way near the extent that it "appears" to be in America. I quote appears because I still don't think it's widespread like it seems to be on the Internet. Real life is such a different experience. I've been taking time off the Internet because the state of online presence in 2016 is toxic as fuck.
>>64739240
Okay.
>>64739283
Nazis believed in an ultra-eccentric racial theory which was not even scientific orthodoxy at the time. Meanwhile, Trump literally wants to enforce EXISTING immigration laws and countries like Japan have much more stringent immigration laws than the United States.
>>64739325
The first portion of the statement is an opinion but the second one is a fact.
>>64739383
I like to compare Trump to Kanye. They say a lot of controversial things to stir up trouble and keep themselves in the sport light but I'm pretty sure it's mostly an act to stay relevant.
>>64739314
You can say that you didn't avoid it because you clearly didn't. You're still here now.
>>64728137
>black
>grew up lower class
No surprises here
>>64739422
>To stir up trouble
Well, Trump wants to prevent low-rent mestizos with a mean IQ of 89 from demographically usurping the country and then using voting power to tell everybody else what to do so that the United States transforms into Brazil in 30 years. Kanye says mildly off color things. I guess these are "stirring up trouble".
>>64739464
You're looking too far into a passing comment.
>>64722659
THIS SO MUCH
>>64739410
So you're saying that black artists don't deserve to be as popular as they are is your OPINION and that there is a concentrated, conspiratorial effort afoot to make black artists more popular than they should be is a FACT. Is that correct?
>>64739495
I didn't mean it 100% literally. But I do believe Trump intentionally says controversial things to stir up trouble. You can't go anywhere without people talking about him and the "crazy" things he says. People think he's stupid and uneducated but I on the other hand think he's highly intelligent, politics aside.
>>64739551
No. The effort is not concentrated or conspiritorial. It is merely a background expectation in order to be "not racist" because that is the trendy thing.
>>64739514
Yes, I am.
>>64739554
That's precisely the objection. What does "stir up trouble" mean? To finally say stuff that needs to be said but since it's not palatable to brown people they get to pout and scream and it's "stirring up trouble"?
>>64739615
By stir up trouble, I mean he intentionally says things he doesn't mean to cause controversy. Therefore the media is bound to cover it from every single angle. As they say, there is no such thing as bad publicity.
>>64739422
Entertainment is taking over politics. It's like reality TV, hard to know what's real and what's not and probably it doesn't even matter anymore. America, this is your future
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IV4IjHz2yIo
>>64739615
This isn't happening
>>64739652
This is happening and he did it well. I never saw a Presidential candidate get that much free airtime. That's why he held press conferences instead of giving victory speeches. The networks didn't dare cut away. I watched him uninterrupted one time for 30-40 mins, no commercial breaks or commentary.
>>64739691
First world countries are in such a privileged state at this point we create controversy out of nothing. We have it so fucking good and people still want more. I'm a first world white kid with pretty wealthy parents and it disgusts me how entitled cunts are these days.
>>64722638
your a dorable
This is how niggers are viewed on the rest of the world. fucking western niggers dont know how good they have it
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UNWyUeozlxE
>>64739009
>Most of the people I know are normie as fuck and getting on with more important things in life.
they're not doing anything important
>>64739813
More important than this entitled shit.
>>64739652
>>64739691
>>64739714
Trump is incredibly inconsistent and probably doesn't believe half the shit he says.
He isn't some evil Nazi, he's just a narcissistic opportunist who has managed to accidentally tap into a certain feeling of fear and anger that has been brewing among white conservative Americans for a long time.
Now he's riding the gravy train all the way to the white house.
>>64739891
barely
>>64739904
How barely? These online issues are strawmans. No one is talking about this in real life. At least not anyone I know. I know people from all different walks of life and no one even knows these kinds of things are "issues". I once tried to talk to some friends about it and they were confused as fuck.
>>64721908
>latent racism.
>>64739900
I believe he is a patriot and a highly experienced businessman who has what it takes to Make America Great Again.
>>64739790
>This is how niggers are viewed on the rest of the world
>his example is one of the most xenophobic country in the world
wew lad
also, it's not like the japs can help but having a preconceived (possibly negative) notion about nogs, jews are the ones pushing the worst parts of their culture and art and making it big to the point that it reaches all corners of the globe.
And what countries treat blacks better than the ones where they were once enslaved? western slave niggers have the most privilege of them all, and that is irrefutable fact.
>>64721726
>Beyonce being a shitty pop artist,
good in destiny's child, shitty afterwards, just like most music in pop after 2005/'06.
>>64736391
>This post
?
>>64722105
>white people have entitlement issues
if you're black, you pro'ly ought to look at all the gibzmedats who scream "racism" at the drop of a hat and have massive chips on their shoulders from slavery and Jim Crow which they never even lived thru.
>>64721726
me on the left
>>64722342
>I wish I cooked breakfast instead
you go straight to computer after waking from sleep in bed?
>>64724635
100% this.
>>64721858
It's because we can't admit that it's easier for us to relate to other white people. That makes you a racist. Black people get to openly scorn us for being white, and for not being black/being surrounded by black people in every strata of society. They get everything, and we don't get to say that it makes us feel disconnected from the world around us.
>>64728004
>«no context.»
>treating white persons as a monolithic bloc
>supremely sensitive about dark tones of make–up on any white person.
>>64728004
>«non-culture of American whites»
Lrn 2 history.
>>64721726
Literally everyone in Scotland is white, music and movies made in Scotland's are gonna have white people.
Where is the article titled "The Unbearable Japanese-ness of J-Pop" or "The Unbearable Korean-ness of K-Pop?"
>>64740759
>"Literally everyone in Scotland is white,"
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tasmina_Ahmed-Sheikh
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Humza_Yousaf
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sanjeev_Kohli
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hardeep_Singh_Kohli
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hanzala_Malik
>>64740887
What point are you trying to prove, he was obviously using hyperbole here
>>64740887
lmfao what happened to scotland?
Save yourself Deak. Don't be a hero. We need you to be okay.
>>64740887
>5 non whites in all of Scotland
Sounds about right. Since you posted Wikipedia pages here's a good one: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scotland
>Ethnic Groups
96.0% White
2.7% Asian
0.7% Black
0.4% Mixed
0.2% Arab
0.1% other
Looks like Scotland is almost 100% white.
>>64741059
I swear to christ one person makes a comment about how Deakin is "culturally appropriating" African folk music, heads will fuckin roll.
>>64721726
Radiohead isn't indie, really. And white people for the most part just make better music.
>>64722719
>white "london-based" electronic artists who always are frowning in pictures.
Because rap artists all look like happy campers in pictures, right?
>>64721726
>just last week white people were making memes about Beyonce being a shitty pop artist, and now this week they're dying for fucking Radiohead.
let me have my opinion m80
>>64741282
Most of them have got a smug-shit eating grin on their face because they've just plugged their product to the rest of black America and made a shit load of exploiting their once fellow man.
In No Logo, Naomi Klein writes how the battles over "representation" that popped up in the culture wars of the 80's and 90's accomplished nothing other than giving marketers and advertising agencies a new way to exploit the identities of the oppressed and the well meaning stupidity of white people.
Lacking in serious political criticism, the identity politics therefore did not bother to challenge the system and instead complained about pop culture all day, forgetting that pop culture is itself an outgrowth of large corporations that ruthlessly exploit people.
Here we are, repeating history.
Good lord, this thread. There's some excellent discussion and some hard cancer. Glad to see this didnt devolve into "WeWuzKangs" the worst meme ever.
>>64740914
>"What point are you trying to prove,"
abuse of the word "literally", like some dumb teenager.
>>64741950
see >>64732610
People like the one who wrote that article is the reason Trump is gonna become president, good job you big fat faggots hope you are happy.
weird that it focuses on Belle and Sebastian who are Scottish, when Scottish identity is as shaped by the effects of colonization and erasure and black identity.
like, american white isn't scottish white. white isn't homogenous. christ.
>>60000000
>>64730307
ok then you will be able to understand what's so special about sly dunbar's timing
thing is, i know you probably can't
>>64741950
>we wuz kangs is a meme
>>64721818
>Unbearable Yellowness of K-Pop
>>64721726
So Beyoncé, who's entire MO is writing songs about being a black feminist and half of her songwriters are white men is above satire
But I'm the hypocrite for admiring a band that has constantly changed directions and influenced over the last 20 years?
B is soma for the masses and fuck it, radiohead may be too, but enough enough with the Good taste is marginalizing bullshit
>>64742062
it is if you're racist and not white
>>64742168
It's cute that you assume Beyoncé writes her own songs.
>>64742319
reread my post?
>>64742319
ouch not only was there no reason to arc up at their post but you fucked it up as well
>>64742339
Woops, my bad.
why are radiohead being discussed in a thread related to indie music?
radiohead are and always have been a major label act, making commercial music
>>64721726
why cant white people get into hip hop lol god white people cant have an identitiy anymore without it being racist
