Why does /mu/ and reddit shit so much over dadrock but then defend Kanye West and other hip hop artists with tooth and nail like it's important art?
Dadrock takes technical skill and knowledge of music to create, and that's much more than Mr West can say. What's more is that many "Wrong Generationers" often go on to learn an instrument and dive deeper even into music. Dissatisfaction with pop is a first step toward serious musical analysis that will lead people to artists inaccessible to Pitchfork drones with no sense of musicianship e.g. Ryley Walker, Cevdet Erek, Ingrid Laubrock, Max Neuhaus.
I respect the opinion of somebody who feels detached from modern pop music (which indicates intellectual independence and critical thinking skills) infinitely more than somebody who mindlessly embraces it.
>>64708826
Yea but the le wrong generation kids embrace the pop music of the past which is still the same to what is coming out now
>>64708946
not exactly....
>>64708946
Pop music is way more formulaic than it used to be.
>>64708826
Nice meme faggot
>>64709076
There is literally nothing different with today's music than the "old days"
I hate to burst your bubble but there was formulaic drivel released back in the day too, see disco music or acdc cock rock. Most if it did what the current music will do: the uninteresting formulaic stuff will be lost to time such that only the "gems " will be left and all that will be remembered, leaving a positive slant to the "old days"
You won't hear "Fancy" in 20 years on the classics stations.
40 years ago, we had great music.
Today, we have great music.
In 40 years, we will have great music.
More music is always good
>>64709540
AC/DC cock rock involved musicians who knew how to compose a pop song and play instruments competently. Iggy Azalea is on the same level as Kanye West in that they both do not know how to compose pop songs or play instruments, and in that they both are heavily reliant upon studio musicians and other artists to create their music for them.
Formulaic drivel existed in the past, but it was a formulaic drivel of a higher quality (sorry to burst your bubble).
>>64709627
So what if they can't play an instrument?
The end product is what matters and the end product is the same.
>>64709627
>waaah waaah they don't play guitar so they don't have talent
Most people with hands can play a piano
That doesn't mean they have talent
I doubt Mr led zeppelin or Mr acdc can spit a technical verse like Killer Mike can
Or produce and rap over beats that push the boundaries of an entire music genre like Mc Ride can
Apples and oranges kiddo.
>>64709627
>b-b-but muh geetars
It's much harder to produce a good beat than it is to write a I-IV-V song
>>64709771
Or if it's Beatles inspired I-IV-iv-V
>>64709627
delivering an interesting fun GOOD piece of music is a skill, just like playing a guitar, and in fact probably a more important one.
>>64708826
Mu is trolling Reddit is serious because they're nigger lovers.
>>64709655
>>64709736
No, the end product is not the same. The end product of AC/DC's music was that of a gut-wrenching rock band who espoused a coherent set of ideas and had a unique grasp on the rhythmic potential of rock music. They were able to do this because they understood the basic framework of pop music composition. Iggy Azalea is indistinguishable from the dozens of other plastic and corporate made celebrities for whom musical ability is secondary.
The ability to play an instrument isn't the only thing important in quality pop music (which is why I listed several other factors in my post), but it indicates dedication to the art of music and a level of musical competence and knowledge totally absent in today's commercial pop.
Killer Mike isn't a musician. He's at best a performer, a cross between an actor and a poet who fulfills the celebrity image of a revolutionary man of the people for progressives. He doesn't know how to play to music and he doesn't know how to compose a pop song; he is an empty artificial image which the audience projects their fantasies into.
>>64709627
>MUH GUITARS
How much Kanye West have you heard? he can create a song that's just as technically complex as anything you can find on your dad's old records, and doesn't need to pick up a guitar. Plus, if he really needed to, he could easily master any instrument.
>>64709771
Am taking music theory right now
This is so fucking true
I can write a nice sonata but when I sit down and try to make a rap beat or EDM track it is fucking hard
Because 4chan is another place on the internet where shitty teens hang out.
>>64709840
According to this guy vocalists are not real musicians :^)
Who woulda thunk it
older people try to appeal younger even while ridiculing themselves
younger people try to appeal older even though they are clueless still
people try to appeal the oposite of what they are
this is a law of life
>>64709850
>kanye can create
Lol ok he has all ghost producers
>>64709627
Don't know if you are trolling but Kanye is an actual accomplished musician and I'm sure Iggy knows some basic music theory
>>64709823
>>64709771
>>64709850
You guys are totally ignoring the first part of the post which says incredibly clearly "musicians who knew how to compose a pop song"
I don't know why you're ignoring it, maybe you think you can refute to my argument with a clichéd response to its secondary focus on instrumental ability (which is essential to composition), but you're failing miserably.
>>64709876
The voice is an instrument, please learn something about music before contributing to this thead.
>>64709736
lol20225
>>64709850
>he can create a song that's just as technically complex as anything you can find on your dad's old records
Bullshit, show me right now a technically complex Kanye West song.
>>64709850
I think production and composition are pretty much the same thing, but that's definitely different from mastering individual instruments.
>>64709840
Once again
>muh guitar
It is harder to throw a beat together that sounds good than to make an instrumental pop track that sounds good.
They are not automatically better at composition just because they can play guitar
>>64708826
Because /mu/, like the people they make fun of, is full of teenagers who want to prove how smart they are because they listen to mainstream western music.
>>64709940
Please make a beat similar to No More Parties in LA that sounds as good as it?
Wait hold on you don't know jazz theory well enough to pull samples that sound good out of your ass like Madlib can?
>>64709971
Once again, instrumental ability is only one part of composition, but competence is essential for truly creative music. An artist who's working with a canvas as small as that of the musical illiterate is incapable of challenging the boundaries and conventions of music and will only create another derivative product
What's not getting through to you? I want to help you. Nowhere have I said anything about guitars. You have pulled this instrument from your unoriginal imagination in a desperate attempt to criticize my hatred of clichés with yet another.
>>64710080
Sorry, you're trying to defend your position by arguing that because I don't have any interest in creating a hip hop beat in the middle of an argument on an anonymous image board, the said hip hop beat has value.
This doesn't follow. My musical abilities have no relation to Kanye West's music. Judging a criticism by an attack on its propagator rather than responding to his claim is fairly lazy, but it's to be expected of hip hop fans
Madlib isn't Kanye West, by the way.
>>64710080
>don't know jazz theory well enough
Madlib doesn't know jazz theory, he just picks out cool parts of jazz tracks. if he could actually come up with original jazz influenced beats, that would mean he knows jazz theory
>>64710121
Yes you can apply theory through guitar
You an also apply it to virtual synths
Yes there are people who can't compose who are on virtual synths
There are also people who can't compose but can play (instrument)
My point is all of these people existed, you just forgot about the bad ones. Most disco is literally the same chords being pumped out of a synth with a sassy black vocalist, most rock was the same 145 progression.
The cool music back then is as cool as the cool music of today because both push boundaries.
It takes talent to make good music, it always has, but now we have more mediums to express it, if they choose to shred a guitar or rap catchy tounge twisters over fire beats, that is talent.
The formulaic music of yesterday has been forgotten and the formulaic music of today will be too.
It's past your bedtime
>>64710336
Whelp, thread over. OP proven wrong
>it's a music is only good if it takes technical traditional skill thread
>>64710336
>My point is all of these people existed, you just forgot about the bad ones. Most disco is literally the same chords being pumped out of a synth with a sassy black vocalist, most rock was the same 145 progression.
The simplicity of pop music throughout history is not being questioned; you are missing the point entirely. Most if not all pop music is clichéd in varying degrees, but in modern culture it is more clichéd than ever and less essential for an artist to have musical skill. Whereas a sassy black vocalist had have a unique timbre and swing to her voice which can rightly be considered a talent, it is now possible to manufacture a celebrity with no musical knowledge or originality whatsoever through studio trickery, a team of revolving musicians, and an expensive media campaign.
What I am saying is that the sassy black vocalist or the I-iv-v cock rocker expended more effort at their craft, developed a skill, and it showed.
>>64710354
I notice you still have not responded to my refutation of your post, and I'm beginning to think it's because you're incapable of doing so.
No, not really. Wrong generationers are just going to keep listening to their dozen artists and never branch out.
How's 7th grade OP?
>>64710537
Technology put more people with less talent int the limelight
That Is true
It also introduces many new sounds and means of producing music that is allows talent to be punctuated as well.
My point is that iggy will get weeded out with time such as disco artist number 402 and the amount of effort put in won't matter because it's formulaic hot garbage regardless.
>>64710659
Also the more people that have access to the tech to make music and the more stuff that comes out, the more good stuff that will come out. There will be more bad stuff too but it's worth it to have more good stuff.
>>64710537
Nah, because I couldn't care less. There's no point in arguing with underage who's firmly stuck in his opinions.
t. someone who used to be exactly like you
>>64708826
i love hip-hop but fuck kanye
>>64709840
>Killer Mike isn't a musician
Your voice is an instrument, retard. You don't know what you're talking about.
>>64709852
The thing most people overlook in Hip-Hop and club music is that it is an art of pastiche.
Tou take things, cut them up and put them together again.
Or if you don't do that, you have to make your own sounds, own instruments.
Mastering synthesis is something that takes far longer than learning how to strum some strings.
>>64709896
Not on his first album.
Not on all the things he produced for other people.
Before College Dropout Kanye West was already was an established name in the hip-hop community.
>>64710121
>An artist who's working with a canvas as small as that of the musical illiterate is incapable of challenging the boundaries and conventions of music and will only create another derivative product
>A canvas as small as that
If you think hip hop is "a small canvas", then you really don't know what the fuck you're talking about. There are tons of subgenres within it and hundreds of underground and experimental rappers pushing the genre everyday. The fact that you named Iggy and Kanye as examples shows just how small your scope really is.
Also, if you don't think the guitar/bass/drum setup is a small canvas to work on, then you're not really thinking critically here.
>Will only create a derivative product
You serious mate? Dadrock is much more of a circlejerk, shit is almost predictable.
>m-muh obscure subgenres being indicative of depth
If you surround something shallow with enough pseudointellectual bullshit, it'll appear intelligent. Pitchfork once sorted through the cesspool of modern pop culture in search of albums with lasting value. Then it got all inclusive and shitty so now its at the point where they waste time listening to shit like Nicki Minaj. Hip hop audiences don't want to believe the truth, that they're listening to shallow trash with the psychological complexity of a Rambo movie. So they intellectualize it and when they find 10/10 reviews for their favorite ego-worshipping idol, they feel validated.
>chugging out butt rock riffs and noodling around on a guitar takes skill
lol no, there were literally thousands of rock bands in the genre's heyday. Playing guitar takes only a minuscule amount of skill, that's why there were so many clones of popular rock bands around
Kanye is dad rap.
If you called your dad up and said "name a rapper right NOW" he would probably say Kanye West
>>64712835
truth
who else is dad rap?
I vote lil wayne
>>64709627
Bruh, you even heard College Dropout? It's mostly exclusively Kanye produced.
>>64712637
You're mixing up actually good rappers with this new meme shit where everyone pretends Future is a genius.
I agree, pretending mindless shit like that is good isn't helping anyone. But you need to understand that there's more to rap than what's on the surface. There's a whole plethora of rappers with lyrical complexity that isn't found in any other genre and that takes skill, much like a good guitar solo takes skill. The problem is that the most brain dead ones are the ones who get the most recognition. Although, hedonistic party music has its own place in art, too.
le right generations are a 1000 times worse than le wrong generations
anyways have you ever said "le wrong generation" in real life and realised how stupid it sounded? lol almost as dumb as the worst sjw
>>64710354
Is this all you do?
>>64709627
>He is literally unironically a stereotypical "wrong generationer"
>>64709627
What the fuck are you talking about? Kanye is a great producer and writes all of his tracks
>>64709971
you're a fucking idiot
>>64709592
underrated and objectively correct statement
>>64712935
Right, which is why it's almost entirely plagiarized soul songs with the pitch slightly altered and a drum track added
>>64713314
that's not right, there is way more layers to the tracks, although the strongest ideas usually play off or are based off the soul samples
>>64709627
>Iggy Azalea is on the same level as Kanye West
fucking sigh you clearly hate hip-hop, good for you.
anyway, probably the dumbest comment i've read all week, congratulations retard
>>64709896
kanye WAS a ghost producer you spastic
>>64712817
t. never touched an instrument in his life
>>64713996
t. just took his first guitar lesson last week
>>64714012
tripfag wrong again. 8 years of guitar retard
>>64714012
I agree with what you've said so far in this thread but I've heard the first album on your bandcamp and you very clearly don't know how to play guitar
>>64714020
The fact that you just said that playing guitar is hard already is proof that you probably really mean 8 days.
t. multi-instrumentalist, can play guitar, bass and piano
>>64714028
If you knew anything about guitar or experimental music you'd understand where my playing style on that record came from and what it was trying to do.
It's completely different from how I normally play either way so that's not even a close to accurate representation of my playing
>>64714012
shhh go listen to radiohead
>>64714045
playing guitar to a high level is hard. you're a fucking tripfag so fucking kill yourself
t. multi instrumentalist guitar, drums, saxophone, cello and clarinet
>>64713041
>almost as dumb as the worst sjw
word*
>>64714096
nice post
here have a (You)
>>64714116
>playing guitar to a high level is hard
Haha oh boy
Little babby is now pulling shit out of his ass to try and look impressive.
Anyone with over 2 years experience on the guitar and even the slightest bit of experience with another instrument knows that guitar is easy as fuck
>>64714076
I figured you'd say something like this
Its pretty obvious that you're just using it as an excuse
>b-but its supposed to be minimal and abstract!
no, you would create something greater if you had the talent but you don't, and you're so egocentric that you feel the need to make a pile of shit when you lack the talent and you have the balls to stand here and call it a piece of art
makes me sick
>>64714139
>Little babby is now pulling shit out of his ass to try and look impressive.
>makes up a load of nonsense about guitar being easy
just put yourself out of your misery
>>64714146
>you decided to pursue an uncharted route and not follow your strengths therefore you have no strengths
This is you right now.
>>64714152
It is easy. Cry harder dadrocker
>>64709852
>I can write a nice sonata but when I sit down and try to make a rap beat or EDM track it is fucking hard
the reverse for me t b h
>>64714160
I'd love for you to display to me that you have any sort of talent whatsoever
>>64714186
This is the "tits or gtfo" of guitar playing lmao
>>64714160
>unironicaly using dadrocker
>>64714160
>it's a tripfag says retarded shit episode
how original
How does proge mon manage to be so obnoxious in every thread when his taste in music is so shitty
>>64714220
That's literally what you are though.
>>64714232
>>64714242
Nice
>>64714200
You're so far up your own ass and you won't even back it up?
one question: why are pop music fans so defensive at all times and against all reason ? What pushes a man to write a two-paragraph rebuttal to the oldest bait in the world, a bait he has seen and answered to at least a hundred times already ?
>>64714200
>>64714160
>>64714139
>>64714120
>>64714076
>>64714045
I know most tripfags here are naïve teenagers, but you sound unusually immature and insecure.
>>64714246
Why do you keep trying to be passive aggressive?
>>64714247
>waaahhhh how is it possible that someone i don't like is good at something
>if you don't waste your time to win a pointless argument against my insecurities you're up your ass and pretentious!
Good job
>>64714265
>buzzword buzzword buzzword insert umlaut over naive buzzword
Cool
>>64714272
The word passive isn't true anon
hello /mu/ddit
>>64714200
this is his playing
http://vtimdon.bandcamp.com/album/in-the-lantern-curls
>I can't play guitar so I'll play drone and act like it's art
>>64714283
You actually just did it again you're completely retarded
kek guitar truly is easy lmaoing at that faggot. try something that's actually hard and then come back
>>64714295
See >>64714160
And them keep crying
>>64714299
Fantastic post
>>64714283
If you were to display to me that you have talent then I would admit it. However you haven't displayed that and you refuse to for some reason, I wonder why
>>64714295
this
>>64714295
LMAO
>>64714318
See >>64714283
And then keep trying to anger me into doing it. Emphasis on trying.
>>64714295
>Taiwan
makes sense
>>64714324
>>64714333
This reeks of samefaggotry.
>>64714295
tripfag BTFO
>>64714295
wouldnt say its bad desu. you faggots are just riled up because the tripfag challenges your fragile egos
>>64714342
You would love that wouldn't you? Keep trying. Wow, this is a great post.
Fantastic!
>>64714373
Lmao, samefagging with your trip off? Thats pretty pathetic.
>>64714373
But your trip on proge mon! Fantastic post, just grand. Wow, keep trying. Fantastic!
>>64714381
>errr... errr.... nice job! hahaa i'm being sarcastic haha!
>and i'll just not try to refute his statement with a simple screenshot haha
Wew
>>64714373
>tripfag takes off trip
>tripfag delusionally thinks anons will believe another anons will defend tripfags
>>64714389
>>64714390
>>64714396
Sorry boys but it ain't happening
Maybe nexttime, when you're not as salty
>>64714295
>calls his tracks "Movements" in order to feign erudition
>clearly does not know how to play the guitar in virtually any respect
>but calls himself a "multiinstrumentalist" and brags about how easy it is to learn the guitar
>gives his tracks the most pretentious names I've ever heard in my life
>wanks around in low tunings and thinks this justifies his self-comparison to Earth and Sunn O)))
>self-described as "inaccessible" i.e. incoherent masturbation
looooooooooooooooooooooooool
I have vertigo from rolling my eyes so much
This link is more brutal than any putdown could have been. I don't even have to tell him to be ashamed because I know he already is.
>>64714390
>>64714389
want more pics? sux that u suc
>>64714393
That is exactly what you do
>>64714403
that is literally what you excused somebody of in this exact thread
>>64709627
How does it feel to be a meme?
>>64714413
Damn this nigga be salty
>>64714420
Except that I posted proof that it wasn't me and you didn't
You really need to try harder my man, at this rate you're not angering anyone but yourself and your parents.
>>64709627
>kanye is formulaic
just kys
>>64714434
beeep beeep beeep proge mon robot beeeeep beeeeeeeep beeeeep be be be beeppppp
>>64714445
cool
>>64714449
beep beeep beeep beep proge mon beeep beeep beeep beeebebeooobebboo beooooo
>>64714434
Wanna know how I know you're hurt real bad? Because you reply to virtually everybody who says something mean about you. You're desperately trying to save face and it isn't working
>>64714449
o shit waddup!
>>64714455
nice
>>64714456
Nah I just like giving (You)s. And shitposting with completely unrelated images because why not?
It's fun, you should try it sometime.
>>64714468
beeep beeep beeep beeep proge mon reply beeep beeep beeep
>>64714481
woah
>>64714468
>Nah I just like giving (You)s. And shitposting with completely unrelated images because why not?
Montie completely ruined this board forever.
>>64709627
Replying to ebin post
>>64714468
>it's a tripfag does damage control episode
>>64714494
Montie's a shithead. That's something we can agree on
>>64714505
hi
>>64709627
100% agreed. Kanye blatantly recycles RECORDINGS of melodies of already famous and successful pop songs because he is just that lazy. He has something life forty "co-producers" on his mediocre beats he tries to sing over. Trash
>>64714509
>maybe they'll think I'm calm and detatched from the situation if I keep posting
it isn't working, my friend. everybody listened to your music and laughed at it; we know that hurts somebody as pretentious and attention-seeking as you
>>64714509
and you're from the school of Montie
>>64714537
Wow you're mad
Eh I don't really care about the whole geetar thing anymore because it's just dick size comparing in the end. I'm just shitposting for fun and out of boredom at this point
You're welcome to form any conspiracy theories that help you sleep at night though.
>>64714546
Please don't associate me with him. Thanks
>>64714566
>look how much I DON'T care
if you have to say something like that then you probs don't mean it
>>64714566
>Eh I don't really care about the whole geetar thing anymore because it's just dick size comparing in the end. I'm just shitposting for fun and out of boredom at this point
>>64524355
>I appreciate feedback more than you can imagine, so please do provide me with some.
Tripfag on suicide watch
>>64714597
k
>>64714605
I don't see how that's related?
I need to edit that to say constructive feedback though, thanks for reminding me
>>64714616
why havent you killed yourself yet
>>64714606
is that picture real
>>64714636
yes
the original frog unicycle was taken from an animation program i believe
>>64714632
k
>>64714139
I dont care for the debate but as any instrument, playing guitar to the highest level possible is hard by definition
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f6mJ5G5mxvg
Now of course guitar has an easy learning curve compared to for example violin or cello.
>>64714616
It would be impossible to give you feedback that you consider 'constructive', you're such a pretentious wanker you automatically discard any negative criticism and tell people some shit like "You just don't get it"
>>64714664
Just saying but that kind of playing can be achieved with half a decade of practice, assuming you've never touched the instrument at all. Not very difficult at all to reach if you already know how to fingerpick and are used to a classical guitar.
>>64714707
I don't think you know what pretentious actually means because you're not using it correctly.
Either way so far pretty much no one ITT has given me anything constructive, just lots of salty shitposting.
I suggest you get off the computer and take a walk outside. Get some fresh air and maybe a glass of water to get rid of all that salt.
>>64714709
So why can't you do it? It's easy, right? Is it because you're still struggling with speed and basic chords?
>>64714734
And he's buttmad alright
Whatever have a (You). This thread is boring
>>64714731
The word pretentious pretty much encapsulates your music aswell as you as a person in general
>>64714768
*yawn*
>>64708826
>dad rock takes technical skill
Kek, sure it does.
>>64710309
You're probably gone, but Madlb literally has a jazz band in which he plays all the instruments and composes original songs for. Look up Yesterday's New Quintet.
>>64714731
pretentious means to gives one's self more importance than is actually warranted
for example: describing individual tracks on a mediocre bandcamp album as "movements" in order to force comparisons with great works of Western art music is incredibly pretentious, especially since you don't even know how to play an instrument let alone organize a composition. You're feigning significance rather than demonstrating
Another example of your incredible pretension is describing your own work as "inaccessible." Clearly you are asking the listener to compare you with difficult and experimental music, but even the most obscure and advanced musicians will tell you that art is an expression to an audience, not yourself. You imply before anybody's even started playing the first "Movement" that your music is intellectually mature, but unfortunately its obvious to anybody with half a brain that you're cloaking yourself with incoherence because you have no ability speak in the first place.
Basically, you're a pseud.
>>64714828
God damn that's an impressively long piece that somehow has absolutely no argument of any value at all.
I'll give you a reply for your efforts
>>64708946
Thats just factually wrong.
Under pressuren Is from every Point of view better than sorry
>>64709736
>killer mike is technical
>mc ride is responsible for pushing boundaries, not zach and andy
holy shit i'm fucking dying
>>64714841
It's actually a very good argument. I gave an acceptable definition of pretentious and then cited several direct examples of how your behavior conformed to this definition.
Your response however, lacked effort (unlike mine), and it did not explain in any way whatsoever how my had no value.
You've had a habit of doing this throughout your time on /mu/ because you are not only very bad at making music, but you are also very bad at arguing. You chalk it off as just not caring, but we both know they you don't care because lack the capacity to do so in the first place.
Again, I see parallels with your music career.
>>64714915
I like how most of your arguments consist of bad experiences, cherrypicking, straw grasping, subjective opinions, and ad hominem.
Are you actually this ignorant to how hypocritical you are or...?
>>64714941
Notice how you're totally unable to actually demonstrate how any of these elements are present in my posts? Notice how I am able to directly cite evidence for my claims and you aren't?
This is why I am better at arguing than you are.
>>64714952
Wow, you're so smug and pretentious (by the correct definition of the word, not by the bullshit faux definition that underages use) that it's painful to watch.
Proof: The last sentence of the very post I'm quoting
I'm obviously not in the mood to turn this into a 3 hour long shitposting session because I'm not a pointless NEET like you are whining over the internet over small little details so you should just, you know, step away from the computer
I really like this thread desu
>>64715034
same
watching anons get pissed off over my decision to use the word "movement" to describe different sections of a conceptual piece is hilarious
>>64709850
Kanye Kardashian is a talentless hack.
Shit on him and his whore wife.
![200822211122464077801[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/Qw2v6FQ.jpg "200822211122464077801[1].jpg")
>>64714976
see
>>64714915
This is a good introductory book to logic I think you should read; it would really help you out a lot. I would advise you not to engage anonymous strangers in debate until after you've finished it because your reasoning skills need a serious brushing up right now. Have a good day, and I'm rooting for your improvement. I hope that your future self-knowledge of logic and contradiction will make you more aware of your current pseud behavior
why are tripfags always the dumbest ones
>>64715076
Nice post. For managing to type out a post with record breaking post length to post meaning ratio I'm giving you a reply.
I don't care about Kanye because I'm not a numbskull Pitchfork drone
