When did you grow out of popular music /mu/?
or do you still listen to bands and producers instead of classical and traditional music?
>>64703109
>he still listens to classical and traditional music
only 18+ allowed on 4chan bud :)
come back to me when you listen to the nine gods of belzarath slowly penetrating your mind and soul
>>64703109
nothing in this image suggests that popular music is worse than the other two. no one in their right mind would think we should go back to only writing music down instead of recording it
>the art/pop/folk trichotomy meme
Get back to 2015 pls
This is an incomplete spectrum. Jazz / Improvised music needs to be there as well, and it best be marked as the talentless drivel that takes the worst parts of the other types.
>>64703197
what about the part where popular music is written primarily to get money or fame?
>>64703175
Pretty sure I'm older than you are friendo. What's you excuse for not listening to classical? do you prefer music written by untrained musicians, for untrained musicians?
>>64703262
some jazz is in the crossover between popular and art music. some jazz could be considered "well crafted" etc.
I would never listen to classical music because every single fan I've met acts just like OP. Declaring yourself a fan of this music is like a MENSA membership for people who aren't smart enough to join. It's empty and soulless because it's a social status symbol and nothing else.
feels weird that I actually get nostalgic over this and Ame sometimes
>>64703296
my excuse is that the "classical" music you speak of isnt perceivable on the 27th plane
>>64703109
>>64703109
> he never grew out of music and dedicated his life to the objectively better art form, literature.
How is puberty going for you?
>>64703109
>or do you still listen to bands and producers instead of classical and traditional music?
I dunno numb nuts, have you seen ANY of the other threads on here?
go fuck yourself you retard
>>64703343
I would never listen to Radiohead because every single fan I've met acts just like OP. Declaring yourself a fan of this music is like a MENSA membership for people who aren't smart enough to join. It's empty and soulless because it's a social status symbol and nothing else.
>>64703343
So... you wouldn't listen to a huge portion of music, arguably some of the greatest music ever written, by the most highly trained, borderline geniuses from the last 500 years... just because you think its soulless and purely a status symbol?
I think you'll find there are people who flaunt all genres like status symbols, be it hip hop, indy bands, classical etc. Its not usually a good idea to judge music on the limited experience of the fanbase that you seem to have.
You dont have to be smart to enjoy classical or traditional music.
>>64703391
literature doesn't let me hear live players playing instruments though. Choosing one art form as the "best" is pretty silly, and I hope you feel silly after that post.
>>64703416
Its clear that /mu/ has a big popular music problem. Its all popular music all the time. There's no problem with that. Some people never wean themselves off popular music, and are happy to listen to the same bands their whole life.
>>64703531
> Choosing one art form as the "best" is pretty silly, and I hope you feel silly after that post.
Choosing one sort of music as the "best" is pretty silly, and I hope you feel silly after that post.
>he doesn't listen to all three
why does the pleb stifle himself?
>>64703531
if you had half a brain you would know that folk music had a huge influence on classical and that a lot of the music people listen to today is the modern version of folk music and that electronic music has completely changed the game and depreciated most classical shit.
Classical shit is all based on outmoded concepts of western harmony. Today timbre and rhythm are much more important because of unprecedented precise computer control of sound. There's stuff happening in electronic music today that was inconceivable to classical composers and is ultimately far more interesting as it's the first examples of the entire radical future of music.
The Futurists were ultimately right about sound and computers are making that happen
>>64703693
Wouldn't you agree that popular music is the genre fiction of the music world?
>>64703743
Listening to music manufactured for profit just seems like a waste of time, when there's so much great music out there, much more than we could ever listen to in our lifetime.
>>64703109
Only the most vain and pretentious fuccbois will think OP is right
>>64703789
>Classical shit is all based on outmoded concepts of western harmony
not since 1910. Might want to brush up on 20th century music.
Of course some classical music is influenced by traditional music, but this also started in the 20th century, composers like Debussy, Bartok, Kodaly, Janacek, Dvorak, were all highly interested in traditional music.
Classical music pre 1900 stems from plainchant and church music in the renaissance, pretty much the polar opposite of the traditional musics of the time.
>>64703851
So I'm vain and pretentious for realizing music made for profit and fame isn't worth listening to?
isn't there a taylor swift thread or radiohead thread you could be posting in?
>>64703809
doesn't mean that it's worse or better masterbaiter
>>64703809
If you think all of "popular music" was made solely for profit you're an absolute idiot. Im sorry but no one who even has a passing knowledge of music history believes what you believe about modern music.
>>64703809
writing off a huge percentage of music just because of your cliched beliefs or non-depreciating truths regarding it is a pretty plebeian thing to do, baitmaster.
>>64703901
>he thinks classical composers were uninterested in fame and fortune
>>64703262
The aim of jazz is the mechanical reproduction of a regressive moment, a castration symbolism. 'Give up your masculinity, let yourself be castrated,' the eunuchlike sound of the jazz band both mocks and proclaims, 'and you will be rewarded, accepted into a fraternity which shares the mystery of impotence with you, a mystery revealed at the moment of the initiation rite.
>>64703901
>taylor swift or radiohead
nice generalizations, you show a prowess in bait
>>64703809
> Wouldn't you agree that popular music is the genre fiction of the music world?
No, for the most part it's a casual genre for people who don't care that much into music. There isn't really an option to grow out of it, there's just the option of getting into music and while doing so slowly abandoning popular music.
>>64703964
>Generalizations
>>64703926
I gave popular music a good 15 year chance. Now I realize its a waste of time. It just doesn't hold my attention. needs more fugues imo
>>64703918
"Modern music" covers all 3 main genres though. art music/classical is still being written today. Some popular music is of higher quality than others, but the fact that most of it is written by people who dont really know what they're doing just makes it boring and repetitive. I'd prefer to listen to something written by someone with a masters degree in composition who is going to provide very interesting and finely crafted music.
>>64703883
>>64703883
>not since 1910. Might want to brush up on 20th century music.
why would you say that when I alluded to futurists unless you were a fucking moron?
the rest of your post is only addressing a small part of what I said by saying hurr not all classical is influenced by folk, and completely ignoring the core idea of my post.
You are literally an idiot. fucking mediocre joke. you justify this post>>64703343
>>64703974
*about
>>64704067
Ok cool if you dont like what every one else listens to thats your deal but please stop shitting up my mu with your musical prescriptivism thanks
>>64703974
>There isn't really an option to grow out of it
you could just stop listening to it. not hard really. I only really listen to classical. Occasionally check out some interesting traditional music, but 98% of my listening is classical. Its very easy to do if you enjoy it, and have grow out of the repetition and hollow "experimentation" of untrained plebs in popular music.
>>64704156
And what makes the experimentation present in popular music hollow?
>>64703109
>implying one form of music is inherently worse than another
4/10
i responded
>>64704076
Lets address your post more comprehensively
>>64703789
>electronic music has completely changed the game and depreciated most classical shit.
Electronic music was started by classical composers tinkering in radio workshops, before popular musicians even knew how to use a synthesizer. Early Stockhausen and babbit for example, still haven't been topped even by acts like autechre.
This is from 1958:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KwtAMGXyTI4
>Today timbre and rhythm are much more important because of unprecedented precise computer control of sound
Hence why classical composers are making use of computers. They also seem to focus on timbre and rhythm these days, as tonal writing is seen as antiquated.
>There's stuff happening in electronic music today that was inconceivable to classical composers
Except that electronic music was conceived by classical musicians. They have always been pioneering new techniques, popular music is slow to catch on, due to the people writing being untrained and not knowing all the techniques and possibilities (like electronic instruments in the 50s) out there.
>>64703109
Which category does harsh noise fit into?
>>64703391
>hasn't even moved on to architecture
>>64704221
A) they aren't trained. You can experiment if you dont know first know how to use your tools. To be experimental you need cutting edge ideas and techniques, and then you need to push those ideas and techniques further. Popular music doesn't even grasp the basics of what is considered experimental today, let alone push any boundaries.
look at autechre or aphex twin for example. Pretty much rehashing what Stockhausen was doing in the 60s, and not even doing it as well.
B) The people making it aren't familiar with what has happened already in music. They dont know that what they're doing wasn't even considered experimental in the 60s or 70s
>>64704365
>Electronic music was started by
see:>>64704076
>why would you say that when I alluded to futurists unless you were a fucking moron?
You clearly know nothing about electronic music if you think Stockhausen hasn't been surpassed.
You are really a fucking moron. Your entire argument is a combination of obliviously acknowledging ways I'm correct and saying redundant shit that anyone who isn't a fucking retard would have realized was already know here from my first fucking post.
You are a textbook poser. Fuck off retard.
>>64704156
>you could just stop listening to it
That wasn't the point you dip. My point was that casual listeners don't need more in depth music since they don't listen to as much music as we are.
>>64704429
is it stored primarily on a recording? then its popular music.
it is written by trained composers? no? then its popular music
does it fulfill a traditional function in a society, and is passed down orally? no? then its popular music.
>>64704517
feel free to show me some popular music that has surpassed Stockhausen.
Honestly there's so much good music out there. It's ridiculous to think people pick one over the other. Music is a gift from our creator AKA God. We should all give all genres and styles of music a fair chance before we label them as inferior. Real fans of music will understand this. All music has the ability to be great and absolutely beautiful and deserves to be listen to fairly except country and rap.
>>64704557
alright smart guy, what about Jazz compositions. They are primarily composed, but soloists play them live and make stuff up on the fly. Some are then stored on computers for re-listening.
>>64704594
nah you don't listen to music so you wouldn't know it if you heard it. feel free to suck a dick faggot
>>64704557
>and is passed down orally?
i had no idea people were orally passing down classical music
>>64704626
OP here. there is some great hip hop and country out there, so aren't you being a bit hypocritical?
>>64704627
I would count completely scored out jazz pieces as art music. written by trained composers, intended for live performance, stored in a written score. all the hallmarks of art music.
Art music uses improvisation too, but usually in a more controlled way. Pretty much all music is stored in a recording at some stage, its wether it exists primarily on a recording that is the indicator of popular music. If something starts as a written score, its probably art music. If something is handed down orally and stored in the collective memory or a society, its probably traditional music
>>64704638
I see you have nothing. otherwise you would have posted something instead of making assumptions about me
>>64704649
That was referring to traditional music. see the OP pic
>>64704748
I haven't made any assumptions. You have proven you don't listen to music. You are a complete moron.
>>64704717
>written by trained composers, intended for live performance, stored in a written score.
what if all of this is true of the song, but the song in question happens to be All Star by Smash Mouth
>>64704649
>i had no idea people were orally passing down classical music
you havent heard of qwaali music or hindustani classical? kill yourself
>>64703789
lol are you really implying classical is shitty and outdated
what a faggot
>>64704748
>does it fulfill a traditional function in a society, and is passed down orally? no?
this could still be art music though
>>64704717
>Pretty much all music is stored in a recording at some stage
no not really. less than .0000001% of all music ever is stored on recording faggot
in and out and then in again.
>didn't give a shit about music before 5th grade
>listen to Top 40 stuff in order to "fit in"
>became a contrarian in middle school
>listened to dadrock and grunge, lewronggeneration
>get into /mu/core in high school
>swayed by memes at first but then realize that some stuff is popular for a reason
>still think most Top 40 and radio rawk is shit though
>>64703789
>Classical shit is all based on outmoded concepts of western harmony
how can one person be so incorrect?
>>64704748
>>64704793
Really, why would I spoonfeed and asshole like you just so you can say it's not as good no matter what it is when you are clearly a fucking moron. You can argue all you want about Stockhousen, your other posts have show explicit ways you are deficient. That's why you get your rocks off parroting redundant infographic and Wikipedia level music history instead of having anything at all interesting to say. Don't get butthurt when you get called out on your shit.
>>64704826
that isn't implied at all if you are actually literate.
>>64704860
As if that generalization is meant literally in the context that acknowledges classical music outside those concepts.
Fuckin autists man. Even if you dweebs knew how to read it's hopeless that you could ever communicate
>2016
>He still believes in the art/pop music distinction
>>64704968
>be a sperg when trying to explain myself
>must be everybody else's autism getting in the way
>>64704794
the other part of the description of art music (you could try looking at the OP picture - which you probably should have done before posting ITT) is that it "emphasizes formal styles that invite technical and detailed deconstruction and criticism" Smash mouth doesn't do that. nor is it written by a trained composer. Of course you can fulfill all the prerequisites of art music and still have a really shitty piece of music, there's a variety of quality in all genres.
>>64704828
Art music isn't usually passed down orally. Usually you learn from a written score, even if thats supplemented with a real teacher.
The only exception is plainchant, which was passed down orally, with only the text in written form. This being the start of modern art music.
Sadly we'll never hear ancient greek art music, although some ancient art music still exists in the form of gamelan
>>64704968
>that isn't implied at all if you are actually literate.
You state it right in your fucking post fuckface. Nice bait
>>64705054
>>64705093
you guys are so fucking dumb. It would be funny if it weren't fucking sad
>>64704968
it sounds like you are the who is butthurt. It was a simple question: calling you out over the fast you think stockhausen has been topped by popular musicians. (>>64704517) I'm very familiar with music history, I have a music degree and have studied music history at university. No need to spoonfeed, just to back up your claims
>>64703296
what do you think street performers do it for?
>>64705179
do you think your opinion matters or
>>64705234
money.
>>64703343
SUBZIDZED FUCKING FOREIGN VOWELS
https://youtu.be/_lNDXc7a8p4?t=1m14s
>>64705191
>I'm very familiar with music history, I have a music degree and have studied music history at university.
explains a lot lamo fuckin no talent loser
>>64705365
>things plebs say
besides, vowels are the easiest to actually sing. All vocal music is mostly vowels. You dont go around singing thhhhhhhh or kkkkkkkkkkkkk, and humming has limited expression.
>>64705473
>You dont go around singing thhhhhhhh or kkkkkkkkkkkkk
How the fuck do you know what i do in my life? KKKKKKKK is basically all i sing in the shower.
>>64705380
Its because I realized I could improve my talent that I decided to study music. I had been writing music for 10 years, was in a successful band organizing many many shows a year, and then I decided I wanted to learn how to write for orchestra. And I did. no need to make assumptions about me based on my education. Most people who study music are pretty serious about trying to make the best music they can. Talent and knowledge are separate entities, and I find "talent" is pretty subjective. I can post some of my music though if you'd like to critique.
>>64705546
there's no need to assume anything, anyone making your posts doesn't have any intelligence worth anything. Go ahead and post all your music. it's shit. I could remix it a million times better than you could even dream to compose except I have a fucking homework shit I need to do.
>>64703109
Was an outsider in Middle School and High School. So I browsed 4chan and found /mu/.
I have been getting into more popular music lately so my taste is more diverse now in college. I am still bored by what the majority of what people listen to.
>>64705546
if you made good music you wouldn't list your credentials.
>>64703109
I must be jewish cos your elitist bullshit is killing me.
>>64705646
If there's no need to assume, why is your post full of assumptions?
>>64705849
Eh just trying to show that I've been part of the popular music world, and decided to go beyond it, learning the techniques of the old (and new) masters
>>64706106
Nothing is assumed. You have demonstrated already that you are shit and your music is shit and you continue to do that.
If your music wasn't shit you would have posted it already. Fuck the fuck off you fucking no talent poser.
>>64706106
>>64707005
Ill bet you continue to harp on the assumption point as the obnoxious miss application of semantics is relevant to this argument in anyway.
>>64707169
>as
as if*
Art and traditional music lacks the visceral feel of popular music though. Even when art music tries to be super bombastic or uses loud noises, or when traditional music uses something that's also bombastic and/or loud it can't make the same visceral effect happen that popular music causes.
Yesterday I bought 13 classical records at my local st vinnies for $1 each,
Currently listening to the Beethoven Op 131 string quartet played by The Yale String Quartet.
Also got Mahler Songs of a wayfarer/ 4 songs from Des knaben wunderhorn, Mahler 8 and 9.
Sibelius Symphony 1, 6, & 7, and 2 versions of the karelia suite.
Barenboim playing brahms piano concerto no 1,
Rachmaninoff playing a selection of rachmaninoff and chopin,
Phillipe Entremont playing 6 chopin polonaises
Two versions of rubinstein playing the beethoven emperor concerto,
A record of the beethoven violin sonata no 7 and mozart sonata in F, k 376,
And a Isaac Stern/Itzahk Perlman/Pinchas Zukerman featuring the mozart sinfonia k 364
What do I listen to after the quartet?
Why would anyone actively alienate themselves from enjoying something?
There is no benefit from cutting yourself off from all but one facet of music, unless you are sincerely content with that single piece, in which case your enjoyment of music as a whole is as shallow as you claim listeners of "popular" music are.
>>64707341
Art music has miles and miles of progress in harmonic ideas, Counterpoint is the best thing to happen to music and this flowing interconnected harmony is totally forsaken in popular music .
Unfortunately being able to enjoy the full harmony takes a fair amount skill to be able to follow and understand how they connect,. the layman has no capability for following the real underlying music and instead prefers the "fun" rhythms and fortune cookie cutter lyrics of popular music
>>64707341
neither art music nor traditional music lack "visceral feel", becuase they are both traditions based on live performace. There is nothing more visceral than experiencing something in the flesh, and with music that means being in the same acoustic space at the performers.
Hearing music strictly from a recording is what I would consider hearing music without a visceral feel. No recording can ever fully capture the experience of being in the same acoustic space as a performer.
I really hope you have been to a live classical performance, and a live traditional performance in its specific culture (ie. go to a foreign country and experience their local music) you really have no point of reference to compare them to the recordings you're used to.
>>64708258
what If you just stopped enjoying popular music because its boring and written by people who dont really know what music is capable of? Its like outsider art, but with lots of marketing so that people lap it up. Granted, some pop songs are written by trained composers, but usually they're writing for someone who just wants simple songs to sing. Extensive modulations, asymetrical meters and chromaticism are generally ignored in popular music, whereas they are rife in both art and traditional musics.
>>64703109
>Continuing to perpetuate this useless false trichotomy that doesn't meaningfully classify music in any way.
>2016
And even if we are going to blindly accept those ridiculous categories:
>Thinking that classical/traditional music is never performed by bands.
>Thinking that modern bands and producers cannot create classical or traditional music.
>Equating art music with classical.
>>64704557
>>64704717
Most pop songs of the most vapid and money-grubbing kind are written by trained composers, conceived as written scores. Also, much more analysis and study is being done on popular music right now than on classical music - just go look at your local music uni's recently posted theses and tell me what you see: 50% is psychoacoustics and neurology explored through music, 35% is arguing over analytical or educational models, and the other 15% is actual analyses. Of these analyses, I'd say the split is about 70-30 between popular music and classical. - and why wouldn't it be? There's more money in understanding one than the other.
>>64709789
>Extensive modulations, asymetrical meters and chromaticism
But what if I'm a pleb, like 80% of the population who just wants to nod along to some simple listening music
Pretty sure classical music has always had its own patrons and vehicles for monetary gain, except now its more niche and aimed at self proclaimed intellectuals with mad cash. Recorded music is obviously just practical for any musician to release music to the public or even to record unfinished ideas. Of course theres tons of digital aspects and shit that there doesnt exist written abbreviations for, so a score for something made with DAWs would be a fucking recipe. Im not against having written scores for music but OPs reason for it is just a huge circlejerk for theory majors
>>64703109
These threads have been appearing for quite some time now, so I assume you must actually believe what you're saying to some extent.
1) The vast majority of popular music is not made primarily to make a profit. You're falsely equating "popular music" with "pop music". The recording studio is attractive to non-profit-seeking artists because it is the most effective way to create music in the vein of personal aesthetics.
2) Popular musicians are very often formally trained. Also, it's very common for them to transcribe and read from fully fleshed-out scores for the majority of the recording process. The fact that these scores are not made available to the public is irrelevant to the artistic merit of a recording. Your constant dismissal of the experimental works of popular artists due to them being "untrained" is a critically illiterate stance in the first place, but on more than one occasion you've actually pegged a trained popular artist as untrained; from your posts, it appears as though you do not have the ear to distinguish between trained and untrained composers.
3) Live music and recorded music are completely distinct experiences that each require a separate set of skills to appreciate. Live acoustical detail is indeed lost in the process of a recording; however the complex electronic and acoustic modifications of some recordings cannot be produced live. These modifications (often carried out by formally trained musicians) invite technical and detailed construction and criticism, regardless of whether you'd like to believe so.
>>64708423
>>64709789
Music theory 101 students are cute.
>>64703296
you are aware that a lot of great classical pieces were written for money, right?
>>64703296
you do realize that classical music was made for money, just as other "popular" music, right?
stop acting like classical is just some gift from the eternal heaven, and just so happens to bless our souls
>>64709789
>Extensive modulations, asymetrical meters and chromaticism are generally ignored in popular music
okay but why would i want to into such bullshit?
>>64703109
I listen to both classical and popular music, popular music mostly though. I listen to what I think sounds good, I don't see the point in getting that invested into one of the lowest art forms. There's so much more merit in high art like literature and cinema (Joyce, Dante, Bergman, Tarkovsky etc.) than in music. You don't get anything out of music other than primal emotions, there's very little aesthetic value.
>>64716142
>>64716215
Classical and "art music" fanboys commit so many logical errors, it's funny.
>Complexity automatically equals "quality."
>Effort justification. "He spent 4 years at Julliard learning his craft, so his compositions are naturally of more worth than the pleb pop artists.
>Appeal to authority. "20th Century academia has approved this work for the Western Musical Canon, therefore it is good."
>Appeal to tradition.
>Treating Music "theory" like a scientific theory, believing that it actually says something useful about the "nature" of music, when it is a post-hoc, descriptive analysis of music that uses a framework invented by academia. Proper music theory is free of value judgments and is simply descriptive.
>Believing you need an understanding of music theory to appreciate music. Never mind the fact that a lot of "groundbreaking" compositional devices (syncopation, polyrhythms, microtones, polyphony) were instinctually discovered by natives banging on drums, plucking strings, and chanting.
I think theoryfaggots continue to vehemently defend it because they know in their hearts they wasted a lot of time and money learning something relatively useless and arbitrary.
>>64716350
>aesthetic value.
I think you mean intellectual or philosophical value, since music is pretty much an aesthetic first art form.
Boiled down, aesthetics basically means the appreciation of something you find "beautiful."
>>64703109
When metallica came out with Binge and purge. I stopped listening to anything my friends said were great. They have shitty taste in women let alone music.
>>64703262
>>64703964
Adorno plz
>>64716262
you dont find those things interesting? you must be easily amused.
>>64715967
>101
you never made it past 100 level anon? damn
>>64717212
>don't find something interesting
>easily amused.
Do you even know how to words?
>>64703109
>traditional
look i get that you want to be edgy by saying you never listen to pop, but traditional music is shit. being a tradition doesn't make it good music, it just makes it interesting to someone who wants to study the cultural background of a piece. I have heard maybe two good pieces of traditional music in my life because it is generally lowest common denominator shit passed down through a tribe with an average IQ that would make them legally retarded in our society.
>>64717782
It's nice to incorporate into other styles though.
>>64703391
This
how do you notate texture.
>>64719033
>how do you notate texture.
By writing parts that interrelate homophonically, monophonically, polyphonically, antiphonically, etc?
Do you mean timbre?
when did you grow out of le axiomatic triangle?
