Why do some people pretend jazz is more than pop(ular) music?
Because it is? Jazz has always been five steps ahead of all other popular music. Jazz started innovating and experimenting decades before The Beatles even recorded an album. Nothing popular music has done wasn't done first in jazz.
Rock and Roll/pop whatever all fits under the umbrella of jazz if you zoom out
>>64604340
Jazz did vaporwave? no? so shut the fuck up
>>64604340
and...?
I once masturbated into a jazz musicians trumpet before a performance in front of the whole school so when he played he got jizz all over his face
AMA
>>64604389
thats not how that works so you lie
>>64604367
>vaporwave
>>64604407
I never said it worked well
>>64604413
thats how its spelled. americans started it not that icelandic cunt our nah .
>>64604166
The bait is fresh this morning.
Thanks senpai!
>>64604449
How is this bait?
Jazz is shit
>>64604378
I was answering OP's question.
>>64604500
None of that means jazz isn't pop(ular) music.
>>64604513
Except is does. Jazz is art music.
>>64604513
what do you even mean by pop(ular)?
>>64604523
Except none of what you posted makes jazz art music.
>>64604444
nice
>>64604545
Not traditional folk or art music.
>>64604552
what makes something art music then?
>inb4 muh written tradition
that's not the end all be all
obviously not ALL jazz is art music, but the best of it is.
>>64604570
what would you classify as art music
>>64604595
Classical, early academic electronic music.
>>64604595
Art music is really anything with an understood tradition and academic pursuit.
Not Rock/Pop/Hip Hop.
Jazz is just often more complex and nuanced. I'm not one to say that it's superior, but to a musician who's learning theory, it's definitely more interesting. I still listen to top 40 pop at work all the time and that stuff bores me but there still are some interesting musical ideas and timbres, but way less.
There does seem to be a lot of pop that lies between top 40 and experimental, some of which I really enjoy. I think pop-sensible musical ideas pervade a lot of jazz too. But in general, jazz seems much more nuanced. That being said, listening to either side all the time gets tiring.
I think balance is key. Why can't you enjoy dream pop along with post bop, grindcore and classical?
>>64604444
quadruple quads, excellent quality digits my friend
classical is basically pop as well
>>64604444
It's actually spelled vapourwave.
>>64604166
Because jazz is divided between the popular stuff, which is generally vocal jazz and jazz you can dance to, and serious jazz like bebop, free jazz, modal jazz etc.
>>64604166
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xd7Fhaji8ow
why do people pretend the notion "popular music" exists?
>>64605012
That's why jazz fusion exists.
>>64604166
Because it's archived in it's three aspects from
A) generation to generation/live performance
B) through charts and sheets and
C) through recordings
So in this way it embodies all three main branches of music whilst pulling technique equally from each brach not to
mention it's own vital element of improv.
It's made by niggers so people pretend it's art.
>>64605075
Classical is art music.
>>64605161
>le all music is of equal worth maymay
>>64605012
Top 40 is not the pinacle of Pop and it never has been. It's been nothing but bubblegum since the beginning.
>>64605012
Most people do, only redditors try and one up one another on taste.
>>64605214
Damn, you seem angry.
>>64605214
>art music
As a music scholar I reject this title. I retain that this brach ought to be called Classical instead. All 3 branches has a craft and art to it's appeal and that's no bullshit.
>>64605214
I hate insecure whitey.
>>64604166
Honestly the whole pop, traditional folk, art music distinction is pretty stupid and leads to cancerous discussion.
>>64605260
I'm not, I'm simply stating facts.
>>64605270
>music scholar
Listening to post-punk and noise (both pop music) doesn't make you a music scholar.
>>64605292
>AYO SO U BE SAYIN MUH NIGGERS TALKING OVER DRUM MACHINES ISN'T MUSIC FUCKIN RAYCIS WHITEY
>>64605372
>le all music is of equal worth maymay
>>64604166
>>64605427
>its dat "smug anime noise & post punk" OP boi
Oh shit waddup!
>>64605576
I don't watch children's shows because I'm not a manchild.
>>64605609
Sure you don't, anime poster
>>64605664
Project harder, manchild.
>>64605214
>It's made by niggers so people pretend it's art.
>>>/pol/
jazz was art long before the critics that emerged today were taking affirmative action with hip-hop and shit like that
>>64605677
I'm not projecting, i'm literally right. If anything, you're projecting with the man child bullshit.
>>64605762
Niggers are not capable of producing art. Their "music" is only produced to serve as a soundtrack to fornication and drug abuse.
>>64604424
But how did it get on his face? Have you ever seen a trumpet nigga? I can't imagine any way he could possibly have gotten it on his face outside of pointing it upwards and blowing as hard as he could. Which...I mean... if that's how the guy plays trumpet he probably deserved it.
You'd have needed to cum buckets too.
>>64605427
This guy is still around?
Go noodle on your keyboard.
>>64605427
>le all music is of equal worth maymay
It is. And you can't prove otherwise, which makes you Theoryfaggots incredibly asshurt.
>>64605810
explain how this is a soundtrack to fornication and drug abuse
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zFA0FYQo0Gg
>>64605894
>It is.
>carefully composed symphonies made by people who had been writing music for decades is just as good as "HOL UP WHERE DA WHITE WOMEN AT"
Leftists actually believe this.
>Theoryfaggots
>LMAO DUDE WHO CARES ABOUT THAT BORING THEORY SHIT HAHA JUST USE UR FEELINGS *plays dank 3 chord solo*
>>64605917
It's pop music. The primary purpose of pop music is financial gain and promoting degeneracy.
Why are people still biting on this blatantly obvious bait?
>>64606027
>EVERYTHING I DISAGREE WITH IS LE FISH MAYMAY
>>64605810
literally kill yourself you racist piece of shit
>>64606111
>I HOPE U DIE U RAYCIS (BTW IM REALLY TOLERANT GUISE)
Another quality leftist argument.
>people still using the art/pop/folk trichotomy
Lmao
>>64606133
>le all music is of equal worth maymay
>>64606063
Not everything I disagree with is bait but your blatant ignorance and stubborness towards any points made is a clear sign you're baiting
>>64606010
>carefully composed symphonies made by people who had been writing music for decades is just as good as "HOL UP WHERE DA WHITE WOMEN AT"
Yep. Because "where the white women at" is just as valid of an artistic statement as Bach wanking off in pursuit of the "sublime."
Can you prove otherwise? "Degeneracy" has been a topic for artists long before Bach ever powdered his wig.
Are you such an unimaginative prescriptivist that you sheepishly only fetishisize music that is taught in your Music Theory 101 class and approved by your dusty professor?
>>64606132
I'm not tolerant of racist assholes and I'm not a leftist. Not being a racist doesn't make you a leftist you fucking retard.
/pol/ and SJWs are two sides of the same coin.
>>64605194
>A) generation to generation/live performance
>B) through charts and sheets and
>C) through recordings
That applies to all music.
>>64606160
He's been doing this shtick for like 4 years now.
He's a failed keyboardist who is simply angry that the plebian filled world can't appreciate the craftsmanship of his derivative, Music Theory 101 approved "compositions."
>>64604166
All music is pop music
>>64604166
Jazz just has higher skillcap. Only people with musical background can enjoy it, and even then they just like the techniques and the complicacy of it.
People without musical background who say that they like Jazz are basically tasteless people who are trying to appear unique.
Say what you will, but jazz is just demonstration of skill. It still sounds like shit.
>>64606010
>The primary purpose of pop music is financial gain and promoting degeneracy.
You can also say the purpose of European "classical" music prior to the Romanticism was to promote religious conformity through ceremony.
Also, your favorite Romantic composers would probably vomit if they read your opinions.
>>64606322
I hope this is bait
it was pop in the 20s-some of the 40s. After that It was more for a less mainstream audience
>>64606160
>ignorance
The only ignorance showcased in this thread is leftist retards calling everything they dislike "racist" and considering everything they don't understand wrong.
>>64606180
>Because "where the white women at" is just as valid of an artistic statement as Bach wanking off in pursuit of the "sublime."
It isn't, Bach's music was made as a form of worship of God, some nigger talking about his hedonistic behavior is just a promotion of degeneracy.
>Can you prove otherwise? "Degeneracy" has been a topic for artists long before Bach ever powdered his wig.
Degenerate "art" is not art.
>Are you such an unimaginative prescriptivist that you sheepishly only fetishisize music that is taught in your Music Theory 101 class and approved by your dusty professor?
>LOL STUPID OLD MEN HAHA WHO CARES ABOUT EXPERIENCE AND KNOWLEDGE
>>64606204
>LE /POL/ MAYMAY
End your life, degenerate leftist.
>>64606251
>failed keyboardist
Except I'm one of the most respected keyboardists in my country. Stop projecting.
>who is simply angry that the plebian filled world can't appreciate the craftsmanship of his derivative, Music Theory 101 approved "compositions."
I couldn't care less about some nigger's/leftist's opinion on music. They're subhumans/traitors and their views are worthless because they have no musical experience.
>>64606302
Art music and folk music are not pop music.
>>64606345
Art music is primarily a form of worship of god (at least art music made by good composers, not modernist trash made by Atheists). The composers needed money for a living, but it wasn't the reason they composed music.
>Also, your favorite Romantic composers would probably vomit if they read your opinions.
Wagner was an opponent of degenerate art, so I doubt that.
>>64604166
This is the worst thread of all time
>>64606474
>Art music and folk music are not pop music.
yes it is
>>64606509
"Pop music" does not describe music that is listened to by many people, retard. It's music as a commodity.
>>64606474
dude you sure expend a lot of effort on being angry and wrong on the internet.
>>64606509
Folk, not contemporary white man + acoostic is not popular music.
>>64606571
I'm neither angry nor wrong.
>>64606554
yes it does
>>64606595
just saying it doesn't make it true
>>64606474
No, they would.
>Composers of the Romantic Era, like Elgar, showed the world that there should be "no segregation of musical tastes"
As for pre-Modernist composers not promoting degeneracy:
>Symphonie fantastique (1830) which uses purely instrumental music (there are no lyrics or vocals) to depicts story about a young artist who is tormented by his love for a woman, so much so that he takes opium
Pretty much all the 7 deadly sins right there.
And Tristan and Isolde had melodrama that would make the director of one of those Lifetime movies cringe.
The Art of Noise manifesto pretty much made your prescriptivist way of thinking about music obsolete.
No go noodle.
>>64606664
Maybe you should post good artists if you want to prove me wrong.
>And Tristan and Isolde had melodrama that would make the director of one of those Lifetime movies cringe.
>comparing a traditional tale to some garbage movie made for monetary gain
Leftists, everyone.
>The Art of Noise manifesto pretty much made your prescriptivist way of thinking about music obsolete.
The point of said manifesto is that music should become a part of an industrial society (read: a commodity).
>>64605810
Incorrect, jazz is a great style if music that several blacks were a part of. Sure there are a lot of niggers but not every black person is.
>>64606474
>Except I'm one of the most respected keyboardists in my country. Stop projecting.
And you waste your time complaining on the internet... Aren't you supposed to be on a tour? retard
>>64606474
God isn't real
>>64606899
>Incorrect, jazz is a great style if music that several blacks were a part of.
It isn't, it's a commodity.
>Sure there are a lot of niggers but not every black person is.
>le not every black person is a nigger maymay
>>64606907
Only NEET manchildren spend their whole day with music.
>>64606945
>CRAWLING IN MY SKIN
>>64606963
It is an objective fact that not every black is a nigger, even if 50 percent are, some still aren't. You are the only one throwing out memes calling everyone who disagrees with you a leftist
>>64607019
for someone who keeps bashing leftists, this guy sure is a faggot.
>>64607007
I'm not even being edgy, there just isn't any reason to believe he is, that said i appreciate christian art, it's among some of the best in the world
>>64606856
The point of the manifesto was a call for future musicians to break with tradition (both compositionally and instrument-wise) and explore the seemingly limitless new variety of sounds that industrial/city life and its technology were creating.
There was no grand aesthetic vision here (like spiritual edification) beyond the intrinsic aesthetics of the sounds themselves.
I also can't prove you wrong since we're talking about something subjective here. You like your dusty professor approved powdered wig music above all. Cool. I like all types of music.
We can prove that all music is of equal worth though, since value judgments are a subjective phenomenon and not a scientific fact that can be measured.
Burns your noodling ass up, doesn't it?
>>64607041
I'm fucking right wing too so i have no clue what he's on about
>>64607019
>leftists using the word "fact"
That's odd, you guys usually consider facts "hate speech"
>>64607048
>le the whole world was made by nothing maymay
>>64607069
>The point of the manifesto was a call for future musicians to break with tradition (both compositionally and instrument-wise) and explore the seemingly limitless new variety of sounds that industrial/city life and its technology were creating.
Exactly, it was made to encourage musicians to disregard all traditions and stop making music in worship of God, instead they should start making materialistic music.
>le music is subjective maymay
Stop posting, reading this kind of retardation makes me want to throw up.
>>64607076
You probably belong to the "alt-right" movement (read: manchildren who spend their whole day masturbating to hentai and blaming other people for their lack of success). You're even worse than a leftist because you make right-wingers look like a joke.
>>64607136
I'm not a leftist, you just keep calling me one, that doesn't make me one. And no the world wasn't made from nothing, that's not what any leading theory says.
>>64607136
haha your opinions are so terrible dude why even bother living
>>64607175
What have i said that made you think i'm alt-right?
>>64606592
>Folk, not contemporary white man + acoostic is not popular music.
Do you know why it's called "folk?"
Because it was literally the music of the common people and peasants.
And as for "degeneracy," I'd wager to guess that about 75% of European folk songs are about drinking and fucking.
>>64607231
At least, it may not be direct but folk music was not the music of musicians, that said i really enjoy it.
>>64607136
Why do you keep rallying on commodity?
I thought right wingers are in favor of industry?
You sound like a whiny liberal arts student with all this...
>muh true art isn't product for consumption.
>>64607318
It's a strange dichotomy he has going on isn't it?
>>64607265
So do I. But it's funny to call out his lack of musicology.
Folk was the top 40 of its, and the troubadours and poets who orally shared the songs were basically radio stations.
More things change, they stay the same.
>>64605214
Ok, I'm not a fan of modern black culture or black music, I agree with you. They're lethargic and annoying.
You have to realize, though, that at the time these artists were popular, racism was still at large amount the white populace. In fact, it has been since as late as the 60s.
Yet, despite the fact that the racism was so prevalent, they still had a lot of recognition amongst the public because the music was fucking good.
>>64605138
Also this. Putting all Jazz under the same umbrella is the same as any other genre. All music has it's shitty entry-level popular stuff and it's complex experimental stuff. Saying all Jazz is pop is like saying all Rock is pop.
>>64607417
I agree with this
>>64607210
>I'm not a leftist, you just keep calling me one, that doesn't make me one.
Atheism is an attack on traditional values.
>And no the world wasn't made from nothing, that's not what any leading theory says.
It's what any Atheist theory comes down to. There has to be a creator because it's not possible that a whole world is created by nothing.
>>64607212
Leftist.
>>64607229
>haha yeah guys im right-wing too but black people and minorities are alright
You're a leftist in disguise.
>>64607231
Folk music is traditional music preserved through oral transmission.
You're probably thinking of folk rock, which is rock music.
>>64607318
Art should not be a commodity, it should be a form of worship. Selling art removes its meaning.
>inb4 "b-but Bach also received money for his music"
Because you can't buy things with music. His inspiration was not money, it was God.
>>64607417
Their "music" was only successful because its hedonism spoke to the lowest human instincts. Leftists are hedonists, so they started promoting this "music".
>m-muh racism
Are leftists able to form a single sentence without their buzzwords?
>complex experimental stuff
"Experimental" jazz consists of niggers playing trumpets and hitting drums while they're under the influence of drugs. It's not experimental, it's the opposite. They disregard any kind of musical tradition and experience. It's like children hitting saucepans.
>>64607614
>You're probably thinking of folk rock, which is rock music.
Nope. Trad folk. And it was the music of the "plebs." And those songs were definitely about degeneracy. Drinking, fighting, whoring, lusting, etc, etc.
Music for cucks
>>64607614
>mu-muh niggers
Can you stormfags say a single sentence without your buzzwords?
>Explains how you don't get the music then proceeds to act like your opinion means anything
Ok
>>64607614
>Selling art removes its meaning.
nah
commie
>>64607614
>atheism is an attack on traditional values
i don't think you understand what atheism is
>there has to be a creator because it's not possible that a whole world is created by nothing
if you're referring to the creation of the earth, then it is entirely possible, and there are entire physical theories detailing how.
if you're referring to the creation of the universe, you're in no position to make such a claim (indeed, no one living today is)
>leftist
lol nice one, my man
>folk rock is rock
folk rock is folk and rock
>art should be a form of worship
lol epic
>his inspiration was not money
are you claiming that no "popular" musicians make music because they are inspired (some even by god, as you claim bach was), and that the only possible motivator is money?
>their music is only successful because its hedonism..
lol epic
>leftists are hedonists
epic simply epic
>experimental jazz is like children hitting saucepans
your weak musical analysis skills are showing
>muh tradition
who gives a shit
in conclusion, cease your actions immediately
>>64607745
>stormfag
I'm not some alt-right failure.
>Explains how you don't get the music then proceeds to act like your opinion means anything
>DUDE UR JUST TOO STUPID TO GET IT U FUKIN RAYCIS BIGOT
You don't play an instrument (an actual instrument like the piano, not joke instruments like a guitar or drums) and you have no knowledge of music theory, your whole "musical" education consists of marxist brainwashing.
>>64607614
>Because you can't buy things with music. His inspiration was not money, it was God.
Once something is paid for, it becomes a commodity.
If Bach wanted to keep his music "pure," he should've gotten a job and composed in his spare time and then gave away his music for free. .
>>64606010
> Implying there wasn't shitty composers back in those days as well.
> Implying the likes of Richard Strauss, Franz Schubert or Robert Schumann aren't the equivalent of "HOL UP WHERE DA WHITE WOMEN AT"
>>64607847
Why the racism?
If you're a true Christian who deplores any kind of submitting to base instincts, you wouldn't be racist.
Racism is a submission to the base instinct of tribalism that has done more harmful things to humanity than any other mentality.
A true Christian would love black people and all other races, regardless of their flaws. He wouldn't call others subhumans, as that would be an affront to God, insulting His creation.
Your mentality is more in line with Pagan thought, like Odinism.
>>64607754
>commie
I'm not the one calling people "racists" and claiming that all music is of equal worth.
>>64607842
>i don't think you understand what atheism is
Denying the existence of God is an attack on tradition. Only alt-right idiots think conservative values and Atheism can be combined.
>if you're referring to the creation of the earth, then it is entirely possible, and there are entire physical theories detailing how.
if you're referring to the creation of the universe, you're in no position to make such a claim (indeed, no one living today is)
A whole universe can't be created by nothing.
>folk rock is folk and rock
Folk rock is rock music with acoustic guitars.
>lol epic
You sure proved me wrong.
>are you claiming that no "popular" musicians make music because they are inspired (some even by god, as you claim bach was), and that the only possible motivator is money?
Exactly.
>your weak musical analysis skills are showing
If you want to see what weak musical analysis looks like, ask some leftist why he likes jazz so much. His response will look like this:
>because it's so free and experimental and those jazz musicians sure showed those evil white men!
>who gives a shit
Anyone with a brain.
>>64607850
Bach focused his entire life on creating music in honor of God. You can't even begin to grasp this man's dedication to music.
>>64607887
You're really trying to compare art music to nigger "music"? I have no words for this.
>>64608009
>le Jesus was a commie maymay
>>64608009
>A true Christian would love black people and all other races, regardless of their flaws. He wouldn't call others subhumans, as that would be an affront to God, insulting His creation.
Indeed.
Our keyboard noodling friend needs to ask for forgiveness this Sunday at Church for his views in this thread.
>And he said to them, "You yourselves know how unlawful it is for a man who is a Jew to associate with a foreigner or to visit him; and yet God has shown me that I should not call any man unholy or unclean.
>A renewal in which there is no distinction between Greek and Jew, circumcised and uncircumcised, barbarian, Scythian, slave and freeman, but Christ is all, and in all.
>>64608111
Speaking in greentext because you have no counterargument.
You're a Pagan, it's obvious. I will pray for you.
And please try not to burn any Churches.
>>64608061
>the only motivator of all popular music is money
Who are you to make such baseless claims? You really believe that every single musician who makes popular music is only in it for money? Every single one?
>>64608061
Then what created a perfect god?
>>64608373
Yes.
>>64608408
God is the beginning of everything. There was no time before God.
>>64608448
So why is it that an imperfect universe can come from nothing but a perfect being can exist with no reasoning other that that it does?
>>64608448
Well, you've lost all credibility. You can't provide me with a shred of evidence that every popular musician does it for money. All you do is make baseless claims and spout stupid bullshit all day.
>>64608061
Being right wing doesn't mean hold on to every single bit of tradition you have. Sure you could be a traditionalist but you act like there aren't regular right wingers
>>64605427
>Listening to post-punk and noise (both pop music) doesn't make you a music scholar.
>>>/pol/
No, being a trained musician attending Uni for music makes me a music scholar.
I hate Jazz so fucking much.
So fucking much.
And all of you as well!!
>>64608504
Because there has to be a creator. A universe can't come from nothing.
>>64608514
Pop music is preserved through recordings. Recordings are bought with money.
>>64608550
It does. Please go away with your alt-right nonsense.
>>64606214
I'm talking primary archives buddy. Pop is best captured in a definitive recording, traditional through performance, and classical (or art if you're a knob) through sheets.
>>64608629
>Recordings are bought with money.
That doesn't mean that the sole motivation for it is money
>Because there has to be a creator
Care to say why, or are you just going to continue stating your beliefs as if they were facts
>>64608629
Okay, but if a creator can just exist, so can the particles that created the universe and the thing is, it's easier to believe that particles existed over a perfect being in the beginning.
>>64606474
Piano is a bitch instrument. You're literally just pressing buttons. It's by far the easiest to become accomplished playing, and yet those who do always get high and mighty. Why do you come here?
M A D M A N
>>64608629
If that's true then you are making a great argument against being right wing, hold on to every tradition and never do new things. Never abandon a tradition if it is proven to be dumb or harmful.
>>64608713
He's a pleb
>>64608628
How can you deny this?
https://youtu.be/tM9rnqdAx00
this>>>>Wagner
>>64604166
White Guilt
>>64608686
If pop musicians had a motivation other than money, they would write their music down.
>Care to say why
Again, an universe can't come from nothing.
>>64608831
But an all-powerful being can
>>64604166
Jazz is a cuck's genre. Only thinking of it makes me want to find a nice proper bll for my wife.
>>64608831
>an universe can't come from nothing
Why?
>If pop musicians had a motivation other than money, they would write their music down
How are those two things even correlated? Does that also mean improvisations are all for money?
>>64608873
Dude you have no imagination, just stop embarrasing yourself. You lack intellectual creativity. You just read God's Delusion and now it's the foundation of existance fo you.
>>64608906
Improv is completely profit driven obviously
>>64608943
What does imagination have to do with anything? I'm saying that if a universe couldn't just happen, neither could a perfect being. And i'm not even an atheist, a god might exist, but your claim that a universe couldn't come from nothing is still a problem because you have to explain how a god could exist. If particles and energy can't exist i see no reason why a god is more likely
>>64608946
So that would mean a lot of jazz is completely profit driven
>>64604579
Obviously not all pop and rock music is art music, but the best of it is (hint: The Beatles, Led Zeppelin, and Pink Floyd are not the best of rock.)
>>64609075
It was sarcasm my man, i suspect you know that though
>>64609101
I thought you were the other guy. A lot of his posts are so stupid hat it could come off as sarcasm
post bests jazz of all time?
>>64609162
I thought you were him, apologies my man
Because Jazz is the Bronze age for popular music.
>>64604166
Because jazz hasn't been popular since the 60s
>>64609065
I'm not the anon that claimed that, just so you know. You just implied, that a perfect being, a divine being that created this universe, has to obey it's rules.
