>It's a "Classical Vs Jazz" episode
Rock > Blues > Hip hop > Jazz > RnB > Classical > Pop
>>64473656
Why are hip hop, RnB, and pop separate?
disco was the peak of popular music - anon
>>64473693
Because I'm not a meme fuck like you
Classical > Traditional > Popular > Jazz
Jazz is like the worst of the other three mediums put together into an incoherent mess. That's why nobody other than fedoras listen to it or attempt to perform it now.
>Rock, Blues, Hip hop, Jazz, RnB, Pop are separate as if they aren't the same thing
>>64473756
>Classical
More like clASSical
>>64473656
Rock, blues, hip hop, RnB, and pop are all literally the same. It's just Kick -> Snare progression with a somewhat different aesthetic.
>>64473756
>fedoras listen to it or attempt to perform it now.
>Thinks classical is the best
>>64473756
>Jazz is like the worst of the other three mediums put together into an incoherent mess. That's why nobody other than fedoras listen to it or attempt to perform it now.
You're correct, but if you try to explain this in detail, you'll need a skin thick even by 4chan standards against the backlash.
>>64473835
Why don't *you* explain it in detail then?
>>64473595
I demand a gif. Snapping turtles are legit. They've been around since before the dinosaurs.
>>64473835
Someone get GG in here to destroy this fucking pleb
>>64473595
Mean looking dogs right there
>>64473835
(I mean: people posting warnings against you, intentional lies about what you said ('you're saying that EVERY SINGLE...'), and so on.)
Jazz is better than classical by far
Objectively
Jazz > rock > classical
Other genres don't really matter.
>>64473920
Don't you have a horse to fuck?
>>64473920
listen to the meme, he's right at least once
>>64473933
Traditional (as in, real folk, not Bob Dylan) is the most honest and important music, free of big business or "intellectual" circlejerks influencing its emotional.
>>64473874
>>64473920
Jazz confirmed for montiecore
Its no longer cool to like now. What other genres should I base my personality around now?
>>64473866
I had. As is usual in such cases, 80% of jazz fans just insulted me in return, 10% understood my points, and some 1% or 2% acknowledged them.
>>64473945
Do you have a anime to watch you fucking weeb
How do i into jazz? I like Snarky Puppy but that's about as much experience as I have with it.
>>64473920
Shut it Montie, the only jazz artist you could name is John Coltrane.
>>64473973
Listen to some jazz albums
>JAZZ IS A SPECTRUM.
>JAZZ IS THE *MEASURE OF* DISREGARD FOR STRUCTURE.
>CLASSIFICATION AS JAZZ PERTAINS TO THE PERSONALITY TRAIT OF WILLINGNESS TO IDENTIFY FORMS TO WHICH TO SUBJECT THE PIECE ONE IS CREATING.
>>64473656
There's not very much classical I like, but the classical music that I do like beats everything I've heard out of all other genres.
>>64473965
>(as in, real folk, not Bob Dylan)
Are you a retard?
>>64473971
Then do it again.
>>64473971
And as in usual such cases 80% of your posts were generalizations, 10% insults and 1 or 2% arguments that ended up being based on your personal opinion
>>64473965
i agree. here's an example of an unskilled musician working outside of big business or intellectualism. this music will is the peak of cultural value.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8mWW6kRITEY
in other art, we can look to internet memes as the highest of folk art in these modern well documented times
>>64474057
Bob Dylan is not an authentic traditional musician, as he is strongly influenced by corporations.
>>64474158
>Time Period
Daily reminder that the classical-popular-traditional distinction says more about chronology than music.
>>64473756
>>64473835
>non-musicians trying to discuss music
back to /b/ please
>>64474060
>the famed jazz player interaction is mythical because players' choices acknowledge each other amounts to nothing but filling the space another player had offered
>the famed jazz uniqueness is true, but irrelevant/fallacious because the actual recipe of its creation is simple near-randomness
>the famed jazz emotion is determined politically (it moves people because it's socially expected to, which is why jazz is an 'adult' genre)
>the famed jazz coherence is mythical because jazz attracts listeners who judge every sequence of tones highly, so they're equally accepting of any jazz that comes
>the famed jazz artistic freedom results from misunderstanding that art is creative production of a piece within given formal restrictions as opposed to abolishing them
>the famed jazz authenticity is a definitional attempt to judge a performed by non-musical aspects of performance
>the famed jazz musical articulation/eloquence is mythical because culture has been retrospectively, descriptively naming and establishing any random combination of tones a player had played (the 'Texan sharpplayer' fallacy -- someone plays random x, then he is applauded for having pioneered x)
This is the gist.
>>64474132
Good post, for a jazz fan.
>>64474367
I already see I forgot about >the famed jazz complexity which is just what people mistakenly call uniqueness; not everything that's unique is complex
>>64474367
>the famed jazz player interaction is mythical because players' choices acknowledge each other amounts to nothing but filling the space another player had offered
proof?
>the famed jazz uniqueness is true, but irrelevant/fallacious because the actual recipe of its creation is simple near-randomness
proof?
>the famed jazz emotion is determined politically (it moves people because it's socially expected to, which is why jazz is an 'adult' genre)
proof?
>the famed jazz coherence is mythical because jazz attracts listeners who judge every sequence of tones highly, so they're equally accepting of any jazz that comes
proof?
>the famed jazz artistic freedom results from misunderstanding that art is creative production of a piece within given formal restrictions as opposed to abolishing them
proof?
>the famed jazz authenticity is a definitional attempt to judge a performed by non-musical aspects of performance
proof?
>the famed jazz musical articulation/eloquence is mythical because culture has been retrospectively, descriptively naming and establishing any random combination of tones a player had played (the 'Texan sharpplayer' fallacy -- someone plays random x, then he is applauded for having pioneered x)
proof?
>>64474356
Everyone can discuss jazz, no matter their musical knowledge, because jazz is largely a non-musical phenomenon; it is so musically lacking, practically everything pertaining to jazz is about how the players *evade* musical responsibility so as to play, and be applauded for, whatever.
>it's a "GG destroying jazz one post at a time" thread
>>64474470
0/10, low effort troll
>>64474367
>all those generalizations in one post
>>64473835
shut the fuck up and don't try to start another jazz shit show like you did yesterday you mars volta loving pleb
Reminder that if you see "Generalizations Guy" (GG for short) to either just ignore him or respond with
>generalizations
to remind him that nobody here is going to take him seriously when all his arguments are based on generalizations.
Remember, you're only rewarding him by responding to his generalizations.
>>64474470
Folks, this is a perfect example of the dangers of applying philosophy to music. It may (and often does, clearly) result in severe psychological distress and inability to speak without sounding like a faggot and trying to reduce all music into a narrow world view.
Don't do it, save yourself.
>>64474460
You really think you're clever...
Not everything can be proven empirically, you idiot. Some aspects of what I described, e.g. concerning definitions of art or the causation/correlation with respect to structure, cannot be 'proven' because they exist in parallel to the concept of proof in the first place. For instance, a very problem of jazz is that listeners believe blindly that there was interplay and because of c. vs c., it's impossible to point otherwise to them.
'Bbbbbblaldlasdkjdhfkjdhgksgryuwerui' -- this word of mine is the final output of an algorithm I've been designing for a decade and which took my five PCs a year and a half to calculate. Prove me wrong.
See?
Well, you are a jazz fan.
>>64474604
>still responding to him
Do you really think anybody's taking him seriously buddy?
>>64474632
yeah I should probably stop even talking to it
>>64474529
I can't wait for the age that you kids realize for the first time that without generalizations you would LITERALLY not be able to take a step out of your bed or pick up a glass of water.
>>64473973
Mingus Ah Um, Blues & Roots, Empyrean Isles, Maiden Voyage, and maybe Coltrane (1962)
>>64473973
head hunters by herbie hancock, blue train by john coltrane and kind of blue by miles davis
>>64474687
(In other words, that the only reason that I don't tell people 'you're generalizing' is because it's a fucking compliment.)
>>64474736
>>64474687
>Generalizations
>>64474773
Google >"without generalizing|generalizations, there|we would" one day, when you feel like stopping thinking in cliches.
Oh that's cool. We'll just start calling you "Faulty Generalizations Guy"
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Faulty_generalization
Why have jazz threads been so hostile lately?
>>64474834
>>64474590
There is one poster who has been spent insane amounts of time making faulty generalizations and insults of jazz fans and musicians as a whole
>>64474807
>>64474875
You know, the reason I've never in my life told anyone not to generalize might be just because I'm more interested in learning the truth than in personal opposition. When someone wants to object just for the sake of objecting, they'll even elevate 'their always exceptions tho! don't be narrow minded!!!' to a status of a significant comment. When I hear about the existence of a pattern, my brain doesn't turn towards grasping at irrelevancies with which to prove them 'wrong', but just consider the pattern.
>>64474919
>Generalizations
>>64475039
Truly your posting is as non-repetitive as the jazz you listen to.
>>64475039
Pro-tip- don't forget to sage if you feel the need to respond
>>64475073
That guy won't even be on 4chan in a couple of weeks. 4chan only attracts intelligent people.
>>64473835
>>64474356
this
>>64474470
there he goes again. >jazz is largely a non-musical phenomenon
lmao you're getting better at this though
>>64475124
>responding to him
You're only giving him what he wants
Lots on tipping goin on in ITT
>>64475141
Believe whatever makes you sage at night.
>>64473973
You could try putting the cold barrel of a shotgun in your ear
>>64474367
>the famed jazz emotion is determined politically (it moves people because it's socially expected to, which is why jazz is an 'adult' genre)
Couldn't this be said about any genre really? All major musical forms have certain ideas and archetypes attached to them based on their place in history as determined by cultural critics and other such taste makers. Classical is associated with elegance and intellectualism, jazz with coolness and explosiveness, rock with rebellion and energy, and so on and so on. I feel like saying that the emotion that people claim to feel from a certain type of music is only political is the result of a kind of self centred scepticism of the appeal of things you don't enjoy.
>>64475213
>trying to have a rational argument with GG
lol good luck
>>64474367
i honestly shouldn't respond because it's gonna go nowhere, but this is more for people reading
>amounts to nothing but filling the space another player had offered
this is literally gibberish, but at least you changed your dumbass idea from yesterday, where you claimed there was absolutely no interaction between players. you're making progress!
>creation is simple near-randomness
blatantly false, read any jazz theory book (it's clear you know none)
> emotion is determined politically
this phrase doesn't even make sense
>attracts listeners who judge every sequence of tones highly, so they're equally accepting of any jazz that comes
just false, i don't even know what to say to it. there's a very clear distinction between good jazz and bad jazz
>culture has been retrospectively, descriptively naming and establishing any random combination of tones a player had played
no, they've been retrospectively and descriptively naming the GOOD combination of tones a player had played, i.e. the honeysuckle rose motif
>>64474515
stop posting GG
>>64475247
>>64475235
Do you really think anybody reading this thread would take any of that seriously?
Where should I start listening to jazz guys?
I used to listen to prog rock but I came to my senses after reading this thread>>64475017 so now I think I'll start listening to jazz instead.
>>64475213
Well yes, but as I partly said in the other thread, jazz's 'listener participation' factor, 'you need to WANT to get into it', is very high, with only pseudogenres such as noise or whatever being higher. It's the blame-the-listener-don't-blame-the-music cop-out when the music fails to engage. This usually betrays a bad genre.
Jazz is particularly culturally entrenched because it shares society's several pet notions: egalitarian idea that blacks are talented, degenerative idea that 'breaking artistic boundaries' is sufficient, not just necessary for art, music that takes no attention to consume (no single five seconds of jazz being in any relation to any past five seconds of it), and so on.
That said, again, kudos for being in the 10% who understood me, as opposed to >>64475247 (nice lie, by the way, >>64475247, that I 'changed my mind' -- I didn't, I don't find swapping playing room between players cooperation and it is not being implied).
>>64475362
I smiled.
>>64475310
i don't know i just honestly can't believe that someone would put so much effort into this if he didn't believe it. one thread maybe, but every single fucking jazz thread? it's insane
>>64475376
>>64475473
Is he a very dedicated extreme shitposter? Or legit insane?
>>64475376
>Generalizations
>>64475519
i think he actually believes it, but he's clearly never listened to jazz. but then again there's the blatant shitposting just slipped in there
>egalitarian idea that blacks are talented
and then statements that are just so stupid as to seem like shitposting
>no single five seconds of jazz being in any relation to any past five seconds of it
>>64475376
Oh wait actually upon reading this post in full I realized that not only are you a pseudo-intellectual trying to deconstruct a genre with decades of history on the internet, you're also a racist who thinks black people can't be talented. You can't generalize more than that lmao.
>>64475568
>he's clearly never listened to jazz
It's always fun to see the 'no true' fallacy in not so obivous places.
'No listening to jazz of yours was true unless you've come to like it as a result!'
>>64475584
>you're also a racist who thinks black people can't be talented
Totally.
I also looked up black classical composers on Wiki a couple of months ago and found some.
>>64475604
haha okay racist white boi
listen to more classical and eat some mayo honky
>>64475362
damn. prog fans on suicide watch. And to think I used to like prog. lol glad I outgrew that when I was 16.
>>64475604
if you haven't heard a relationship between any continuous 10 seconds in jazz then you either haven't listened to jazz or you're completely tone deaf, in which case your opinion is irrelevant
>>64475637
because blacks had the opportunity to compose classical music at the time. there are black classical composers now, by the way
actually fuck this thread
>I don't hear any instrumental relationships in jazz music!
>What is a key?
>What is a scale?
>>64475680
>write 'found some black composers'
>have a jazzfag misread it as 'found none black composers' because of his prejudices
I might be tone-deaf, but you're letter-blind.
>Still responding to GG
seriously guys??
srsly tho classical > jazz
I liked GG better when it was about ethics in video game journalism, actually. :^)
>>64475734
ah so you're racist, pseudo-intellectual AND tone deaf???
it all makes sense now
>>64475725
>what is the difference between co-occurrence and causation
>what is the spectrum of precomposedness
What the fuck is GG?
What's going on in this thread?
>>64475817
Feel free to believe everything you see between the lines in my posts.
It's no different from your hearing things between the notes in jazzlines.
>>64475812
Who's your favorite jazz musicians SDF.
>>64475846
>What the fuck is GG?
He's the hero /mu/ deserves, but not the one it needs right now. So we'll hunt him. Because he can take it. Because he's not our hero. He's a silent guardian, a watchful protector. A dark knight.
>>64475876
Don't have one, I'm neither an expert nor a connoisseur. But I like my brother a lot, but I guess I'm biased due to blood ties, his personality and all.
>>64475828
>racist generalizations
>racist strawman arguments
lmao you're not even attempting to be entertaining anymore
I'm so confused right now?
>>64475992
>not even attempting to be entertaining anymore
Good description of jazz.
>>64475865
no i don't hear things in between the jazz lines, i just listen to jazz lines
you can't though because you're tone deaf and can't understand music. I forgive you but i'm afraid I can't help you to understand anymore because it's hopeless. live a good life GG, we all wish you the best.
>>64476011
>g-good description of j-jazz! see what I did there xD???? gotcha hehe
>>64476039
>still responding
honestly at this point you're being almost as stupid as him
>>64476096
>jazz fans resorting to insulting the fencesitters' intelligence
Your average classical fan
>>64476235
me on the left
>>64473832
Jazz is a literal fedora genre
>>64476294
nice catch
>>64473835
Jazz is the literal fedora genre
>>64473656
>has heard Vivaldi's Spring
>>64473756
>>64473835
>Jazz like traditional/classical/pop put together
That's literally retarded. All the different genres of jazz that have survived to the modern day use different forms, timbres, textures, harmonies, and melodic contours than any of those genres you discovered. 2 points though if you're b8ing
>>64476618
Someone's not getting their daily recommended amount of vitamin SKA
There is no point to comparing these forms of music
>>64477439
Really none at all.
>>64477439
Shut up thom yorke.
i'm taking a jazz history class and my professor insists that jazz is american folk music. it makes sense to me. it's the culmination of many different cultures coming together in one place.
if this is the case, then i would say that folk=classical
>>64477100
Ska is another fedora genre but if you're like a two tone rude boy you can at least look good in a suit or whatever
Jazz musicians never look good unless they're black
>>64478661
>culmination of many different cultures coming together in one place
This is the kind of nonmusical compliments people heap on jazz while somehow at the other hand insisting that 'it's the most musical genre of all'.
Frankly, the jazz hype isn't even irritating, it's just tedious.
>>64478661
Maybe "folk" in the new-age liberal post-colonial sense, but not in the traditional sense.
>>64479210
>This is the kind of nonmusical compliments people heap on jazz while somehow at the other hand insisting that 'it's the most musical genre of all'.
i honestly don't understand what you're trying to say
>>64479210
>generalizations
>>64480160
Meme
