Serious Discussion
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You are currently reading a thread in /mu/ - Music
You are currently reading a thread in /mu/ - Music
Can superstars make credible art?
>>64413000
Yes
It depends on the superstar really
In the case of beyonce, definitely not as her entire career is just about selling an image
yes
>>64413000
Yes, obviously.
If you don't think this is the case then you're stuck in a bubble of indie-centric mentality.
>>64413032
Not being able to embrace a change in direction and newfound political meaning in her artistic expression is close-minded.
>>64413000
>inb4 random /pol/tard citing every post calling everyone "cuck" and "libs"
>>64413387
Well, it's not like any of that was truly orchestrated by Beyonce. And I don't believe that art that makes a political statement/takes a stance is truly art
>>64413000
No, because getting payed for what you love to do will eventually diminish intrinsic motivation and leave you doing alienated labour, which is by definition the opposite of artistic praxis.
FAGGOT
>>64413387
what?
>oh no! My 368th QUEEN BAY YAASSS thread had legitimate criticisms and arguments about how she is not an artist and there is no message in this vauge album!
>better make another!
Shills everyone.
>>64413367
>superstars
>Kendrick Lamar
WTF ?
>>64413000
>>64413685
How is he not? He's in line for Grammys
>>64413387
>newfound political meaning
not one of her songs engages in actual political discussion
it's all "implicit" in the documentary at best
so it's exactly what he said: her entire career is about selling an image
>>64413419
Any art can be observed through a political paradigm. Considering whether art is political or not is redundant.
>>64413701
>requiring spoonfeeding to appreciate politics in art
stay plebian
>>64413695
This.
>>64413695
Thank you. I am not that huge a fan of Lemonade, but everyone on /mu/ can't admit the fact that Kanye can make albums with 15 producer credits and people don't question the validity of the music on those grounds, while a woman who does it gets fucking dragged.
To reiterate: I think lemonade is just ok, but I think most of the people on /mu/ not impressed by it are just not impressed it for the woman on the cover.
>>64413781
>I said everything while saying nothing
I think mother goose was pushing a heavy Marxist agenda, you just have to squit your eyes reallllyyyy hard to see it.
>>64413815
you're fucking dumb
to reiterate: you are stupid
>>64413815
People do criticize mbdtf for that, and I think most people on /mu/ listen to female artists
The question is not can a superstar make good music or not. The question is can they make art. So lets start a 200 page thread arguing about what art is. But in my opinion they CAN but it's not likely because every body around them is trying to create a product. They also dont have a huge level of control over their music if they're huge superstars in terms of producers, writers, etc.
>>64413419
this is stupid
>>64413871
Care to explain why
These Beyonce threads are literally insanity generators, the same stupid statements about how good the album is or bringing other artists into question to try to apply some ethos to her when all that's doing is sidesteping the direct discussion. Then who I'd assume is op, just makes a new thread.
This is supposed to be a Beyonce album discussion, not "you're a hypocrite for liking kanye but not Beyonce"
I'm not sure what it is, exactly, but I feel like Beyonce is completely manufactured and that her recent "politically provocative" come off as a cynical attempt to capitalize off of these racially polarized times.
For one, her albums and works make no definitive statements and make no waves. Everything is "Implied" or is "in subtext" rather than overt or shocking. Comes off like she doesn't want to alienate anyone by taking a real stand.
Also, it seems somewhat unbelievable thst a performer who has spent the last 20 years making shallow pop hits all of a sudden is this deep provocateur. Since she isn't the primary writer on any of her songs, it just seems like an attempt to redefine her image into a prestige artist because that's what's hot now in hip hop.
I don't feel this way when Kendrick or Kanye try to make statements with their work because this has been a staple of what theyve done since the start but Beyonce has done such a 180 it just strikes me as an attempt to maintain her superstar status.
>>64413959
she is manufactured... i mean one of the songs on the album has 15 writers
>>64413906
Not him but there are plenty of examples of art taking a strong political stance throughout history.
And one could argue that every artist's every work ever is political at some point.
Art is linked to reality, reality is perception, perception is objective, objective thought is political.
I gave you the short version but I guess you get it.
>>64413959
your entirely right
Im not a Lady Gaga fan at all but at least her "art" was somewhat credible and did push boundaries
but this bitch is awful, Im black and im embarrassed that she is supposed to be some sort of ambassador for black women when shes only holding them back
If black women wanted a current musician to look up to it should be Janelle Monae
>>64413906
>>64413419
I'm still >>64414103
I guess you were speaking about clearly expressing some political thoughts but you can't draw the line so easily.
>>64414015
So does essentially every single pop song.
You don't understand how major labels work. The artist simply cannot be given complete creative control because that is a risk on the company.
Beyonce most likely did write a large majority of the lyrics and concepts, but the fifteen writers the songs go through are all their to discuss and add relatively minor tweaks.
Very often a writer will add only a single word.
Beyonce's latest takes far too many risks to be labelled as 'manufactured' - polished and tweaked to hell and back, most likely, but not at the expense of concept, political meaning or artistic credibility.
>>64413851
>most people on /mu/ listen to female artists
Yeah, as long as they keep to bubbly pop songs and cute/sexy imagery I guess /mu/ is ok with that.
>>64414015
To be fair, tons of writers in hip hop and RnB is kind of expected for artists of her caliber. Kanye does it, Kendrick does it, Dre does it, etc...
What's disingenuous is that Knowles has no track record and only in her last couple of albums has decided to take this prestige artist route after years of being a Britney Spears-tier pop star.
And know with her most recent album she's trying to make an image if a political provocateur. The difference is these other artists employing teams to help them are building off a previous legacy whereas Beyonce is just following trends and trying to keep her image dynamic and relevant. Beyonce (the album) started this trend by building off of rap trends in 2013 whereas I feel like Lemonade is an obvious pandering for the politically insightful Kendrick Lamar style work that has become popular.
Also, I don't know how writing credits work in the music industry, but Knowles isn't listed as top writer on any of the songs on the album, and ranks usually in like 7th or 8th place in the credits.
She's a great performer and a talent, but she's an image for a collective hoping to make money off of her. Maybe this is true of most big musicians but with Beyonce it just comes off as particularly inauthentic.
>>64414149
Rad generalizations my dood.
>>64414149
I think you're taking waifu fags for the majority, when they really aren't
>>64414191
>>64414195
Yeah I'm aware that I'm talking about the most vocal minority.
Still bugging me anyway.
>>64413959
Exactly. Who the fuck is Beyonce? A goddamned pop star who has taken money to perform for 3rd world dictators. A leader of a girl group who has been rolling in money ever since she was a teenager. A basic bitch who never had a controversial thing to say in her life, who has never written her own music, and who has pretty much become the poster child for "acceptable" black women, women who conform to white standards without completely whitewashing herself.
If you don't create the art, you can't be an artist. She has had almost 20 years of access to the entirety of the world's musical resources and she still can't come up with her own music. She is simply a performer of shallow pop music and the face of a brand, nothing more, and certainly, at no point, does anything she puts out cross the line into art. The only reason anybody would believe that is because of the bullshit that the record industry and music media spews. Even just the term "artist" is stripped of any meaning in musical discussion. When somebody says the word artist, you don't think of Beyonce or Justin Beiber.
>>64414442
This is a 5 star post anon, keep up the good work.
>>64413000
ask Bowie, Jackson or Prince
