Can you even be consider an "artist" if you do nothing, but provide the vocals on "your" music?
You're nothing more than a product at this point, right?
I just jizzed to a picture of a female musician
I call them whores and sluts
>its an anon figures out how the music industry works
they are all products
>>64317229
95% of artist played on the radio are products being controlled by their agent,manager and record label
welcome to the entertainment industry
"Can you even be consider an "artist" if you do nothing, but provide the vocals on "your" music?"
yes you can and yes beyonce is an artist
aretha franklin is better singer than kylie minogue
both of them sang other people's songs
and both are artists, regardless of quality
>>64317300
How is she making any kind of statement, that people are claiming she is, when none of what she is doing is of her own doing?
>>64317318
You're a performer not an artist. The misic is meaningless to you if you dont write it. Sure you can sing it, probably well too but you have zero emotional connection to it since its not your music. Its vapid and shallow trash.
>>64317229
Well she is merely the singer but can still be part of the art even if she contributes no actual ideas.
Elvis did it.
>>64317469
This, we really should start making the distinction between performers and artists, it would make all the poptimist threads go sail the usual corse way faster.
She is not an artist, because she is doing nothing that involves her creating or being creative. She just adds her voice as a piece of someone elses art.
>>64317469
i mean i don't care enough about definitions to make that a debate really so yeah, have it
but there is creativity in creating sound with your mouth, you decide how it sounds
you could call her a sound designer and be technically correct
>>64317327
How do you figure none of it is her own doing? Let's also pretend that Beyonce is nothing but a puppet - she is still the person presenting these ideas and is the face (and singer) of this music. So she is the artist. Artistry and music isn't confined solely to songwriting.
>>64317732
I think you're either retarded or a huge cuckold.
She's essentially just really good at Karaoke. Not Art.
>>64317580
What bullshit and you know it. It takes tons of skill and innate talent to do what she does with her voice, and to interpret music is an art form in itself. Would you also say that classical pianists, cellists, and violinists who spend their lives trying to perfect pieces by Bach or Mozart or Beethoven are not artists?
Singing is an art. And Beyonce is exceptional at singing
>>64317782
lol okay
stay edgy boi
Can you even be consider an "artist" if you do nothing but provide direction on "your" movie?
>>64317806
Now this is next level shitposting.
Interpreting music =/= producer tells you to sing these lines, so they can add it to the track
>>64317834
nothing I said is edgy.
stay 14, kiddo
>>64317830
Singing is not an art. It's a skill. There is no artistic expression in Beyonce's singing. All she does is hit the right notes to a melody somebody else wrote.
benis
>>64317844
Okay what about when she performs and does ad libs and changes the way she sings her songs? Is that not interpreting music? By your definition she may not be an "artist" but she is talented
>>64317865
wow no
>>64317881
Beyonce doesn't ad lib
>>64317847
>one of the most respected pop singers in the world is not an artist because she doesn't play REEL INSTRUMENTS (what is a voice?? dunno) or write her own music (who is nina simone)
>i'm not edgy you FUCKIN KEKOLD
>>64317881
no that's not art.
That's something a member of a high school choir could do.
Beyonce is a performer, but not interesting in any way. The only reason anyone on this board likes her is because they are impressionable tweens who religiously follow pitchfork.com
>>64317732
Are Vocaloids artists?
Miku is essentially a puppet, but she's the face of the music, and the "voice" that presents the ideas.
>>64317839
>wrote most of his scripts
>was the one in charge of cinematography
>was behind most of the art direction
>autistic control over actors performances
vs
>a qt lady singing songs she didn't write or produced
>>64317865
that same thing can be said about someones song writing and composing so...
>>64317914
>respected pop singers
kek
that's like saying she's one of the best doodlers in all of doodling history.
>>64317926
no because beyonce is actually a real person
>>64317918
But almost no one in a high school choir could sing or dance as good as Beyonce does, that's what makers her interesting. She's so good at performing
4 (2011) and Beyonce (2013), that sold more than 600,000 copies in the first three days, had no song worth mentioning. Nonetheless, by 2013 she had sold over 100 million "records" (whatever that meant in 2013).
>>64317229
She's as much an artist as the bleep bloopers.
>>64317937
No, it couldn't. If you tried to say the same thing about that, it would directly contradict itself.
Songrwiting is an art because it is totally expressive. There is ultimate creative freedom, and it is entirely your own work.
Singing what someone else wrote is slightly expressive, and allows very little creative freedom.
>>64317918
I used to want to fuck her big black delicious ass, but now she's getting up there in years.
>>64317944
okay
keep pretending to yourself that pop music can't be respected as an art form
>>64317953
Define "real".
Because the Beyonce that's presented in music is a persona, and separate from the music is Beyonce the person.
"Artists" make that a point constantly, that those two things are not the same.
>>64317953
But is she?
>>64317229
She's just a pretty face, body and voice for some shit ghostwriters.
>>64317926
nah. everything vocaloids do is deterministic. ultimately there's a rational explanation for every intonation they make. they're about as much of an artist as a digital synth.
>>64317968
yes, but she's not an artist.
>>64317993
Trust me, I'm not pretending.
Pop music (i.e. the mass produced garbage the music industry pumps out) is not respectable. The only reason it sells is because of designer catchy melodies and the sex symbols they throw on the TV to convince retards to buy it
>>64317229
you inspired some art
>>64317978
performing music is performing art - meaning beyonce is an artist. literally the dictionary definition of the word.
>>64318002
How do you know she doesn't pick out the songs she sings? Ray Charles and Frank Sinatra were both far more performers than they were songwriters yet they always chose the songs they sang and often arranged their albums around certain themes. Does the fact that they didn't write any of these songs nullify the artistry of said albums for you?
What about traditional folk singers? Are The Carter Family nothing more than performers in your eyes?
>>64318040
lol no it's not.
An artist is someone who produces art.
I cant' honestly think you're anything but a shill or 15 year old insecure white kid.
>>64318040
When she's "performing music" she is still just providing her voice to someone else's music. Often it's not even her live voice.
>thinking the words art and artist mean anything
>>64318027
But isn't there a "rational explanation" for every intonation Beyonce makes? She still stays tonal, therefore she's essentially playing by the same rules that you'd play by with a Vocaloid.
>>64317994
im gonna define real as a person who is actually alive and literally exists as a human being.
>>64318030
weak ass bait lmao
>>64318061
Yes, none of those people are good in any way.
Did you just get here from reddit or something?
who the fuck cares about Ray Charles.
>>64317839
This comparison isn't even close and you know it
>>64318104
Which albums did you listen to? Genuinely curious, cause I doubt you've listened to anything beyond the singles everyone knows.
>>64318076
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/artist
>>64318092
>haha he doesn't listen to the radio, he must be a troll
try mtv.com
this site is not for you.
>>64318148
>literally all pop music can never be good
>no you're wrong
>g-go watch mtv u fuckin shill
>>64317229
vocals is an instrument, dumbass. replace your easy target of beyonce with any other vocalist and you seem retarded. /thread
>>64318135
>le dictionary definition meme
I'm honestly done with this thread.
There is no point arguing with the kind of person willing to defend Beyonce with an artist. You're all either incredibly stupid, mentally ill, or a paid shill trying to convince impressionable teens that pop music is actually "patrician"
Sometimes I forget why I stopped coming to /mu/, and then I see threads like this.
In closing, kill yourselves.
>>64318027
so if I had a vocaloid capable of random behavior/ad-libs akin to a real performance, would it be an artist?
>>64318197
i think i will kill myself due to how fuckin stupid your post is, there's no point in living anymore
Is Billie Holiday not an artist?
>>64318197
>I've been proven wrong
>better tell everyone they're stupid to save face
>>64318030
led zeppelin 4 lyfe!!
>>64318196
Anyone who is just lending vocals to a highly produced, mass marketed pop song is not an artist. Not just Beyonce. She's just a convenient example.
>>64318092
Well I hope you understand where you fucked up then, because that proves the point.
>>64318245
We've already given you official definitions of the word that say otherwise. But it doesn't count cuz it doesn't fit your world view, apparently.
>>64318245
sorry aretha franklin ;( mu has decided you suck and can't be respected
>>64318235
>>64318233
>>64318232
led zeppelin sucks, but Beyonce is fucking terrible.
this is a serious question, where did all of you retards come from?
/mu/ was nowhere NEAR this cucked a few years ago. Why did you all decide to come here? How are people dumb enough to have opinions like this even capable of using a computer? It makes no sense to me. None of you people make any sense to me.
Why would anyone listen to Beyonce? Please respond.
>i don't like it so it's not art: the thread
>>64318305
>I like it, so it is art.
heh. thought u were clever, huh.
>>64318291
There are no "official definitions" of words. Languages are a living thing. Anyone with an elementary understanding of linguistics understands that.
>>64318279
what do you mean?
>>64318319
Beyonce sucks, but she's still an artist.
>>64318292
>she's considered good and respected because she's old
What a stupid fucking argument
>>64318336
yeah you should mail merriam webster and inform them of their ignorance
>>64318293
I'm not even defending the quality of Beyonce's art, I don't think anyone in the thread really is. The words art and artist don't denote quality of a piece of art.
>>64318319
I don't like the vast majority of Beyonce's catalog, I hate everything I've heard by Luke Bryan. They're still artists.
>>64318336
If we're not going to be using certain things to set the standards for what is and isn't art then there's no point in arguing.
>>64318305
isn't it pretty obvious that singing someone else's material requires a lot less artistic input than permorming your own, original material
the winner of american idol isn't going to be an amazing "artist" although he or she can sing really well
>>64318363
I think you misunderstood him.
Try reading it again and use your brain you child.
is poptimism a sincere attempt to understand and appreciate pop culture or a deliberate lowering of standards? And if it's the latter, why?
>>64318359
no aretha franklin is good because she's one of the greatest soul singers of all time.
>>64318359
>>64318319
>>64318293
>>64318245
>>64318197
>>64317229
>You're nothing more than a product at this point, right?
Yup.
So do you genuinely appreciate the works of Viper more than you do any of the non-composing artists mentioned in this thread?
>>64318338
Because by your own admission representations aren't real.
In which the logic leads to Miku being as unreal as Beyonce.
Singers who don't sing their own songs are just glorified session musicians (if you can even call them that).
>>64317229
yes you can, personally I find everything she does repugnant to say the least, trite girl power for wankers and mentruating women, at least she could go full Suckdog and actually make a stronger statement
>>64317469
incorrect.
>>64318396
standing against "the man", corporations and group thinking stopped being cool. counter-culture is dead
people have embraced it
>>64318396
>And if it's the latter, why?
Pure and simple irony.
>>64317839
Wow, you're a fucking idiot. Kubrick wrote and produced his films.
>>64318293
respecting vocalists as artists doesn't equate to liking beyonce you fucking sperg. go listen to your fucking one man band music if you care so much about one person writing and singing and playing the instruments because "muh music industry and top 40 radio". a few years ago, /mu/ had the baseline intelligence to know that vocalists are artists and that beyonce has at least some singing talent:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NJxPOFBi2ww
fuck off to r/lewronggeneration
>>64318428
viper is great
>>64318372
so everyone alive today is an artist?
>>64318428
Yes.
>>64318442
yes but you are assuming that beyonce is as "unreal" as miku. in truth none of us can actually tell to any reasonable degree what goes on behind the scenes even if we can reasonably suspect that mainstream pop music is in someways orchestrated.
>>64318428
viper is much more humane than every person mentioned ITT, FUCK superstars and idols, viper is real and makes great music
>>64318428
Viper is the greatest artist of the 21st century.
>>64318491
People making art are artists, but yes, everyone alive has the capacity to be art.
>>64318471
>singing is an art
it's a skill.
you could train a genetically gifted retard to do what beyonce does. It requires no intelligence, creativity, or insight.
Just lots of practice.
>>64318455
nice rebuttal
>>64318488
>>64318497
>>64318517
So we've reached the point where everyone's a confirmed troll. Nice talking to you.
>>64318534
>you could train a genetically gifted retard to do what beyonce does. It requires no intelligence, creativity, or insight.
what does it require?
hey guys I just sang a cover of Atrocity Exhibition while in the shitter, am i an artist?
>>64318563
practice.
Just sing a lot every day, an be born with a good voice.
>>64318525
but what is art? is it a conscious decision to make art?
and at what point does the word art become totally meaningless?
>>64318556
nah viper is legitimately more creative than beyonce therefore he's much more of an artist than that hack
>>64318603
are you suggesting that practice has no value?
>>64318534
Okay. You're a retard. Let's see if you can do it. Vocaroo away, my friend.
>>64318556
How would it even be possible to appreciate Beyonce for her art? She literally doesn't make any while Viper clearly does.
It's like calling a karaoke singer at a bar an artist.
>>64318644
I just said it was a skill. I haven't put any effort into it, so I don't have it. Singing well is really hard.
>>64318638
No, practice has a lot of value.
Singing is still not an art.
Art is about creation. Beyonce's line of work is in production.
>>64317229
Yes, this has been established. You autists aren't enlightened for pointing that out in fucking 2016.
>/mu/ making a stand against poptimism
it was about time
>>64318511
I'm not though. You're definition of real was someone that's an actual living breathing entity. Personas are not real in that respect.
Slim Shady isn't real, Eminem isn't real, but Marshall Mathers is.
Beyonce isn't real, but Beyonce Knowles-Carter is.
Miku isn't real.
>>64318678
>Art is about creation.
no, art is about context
PROTIP: if you're going to dig your heels in over a definition, it helps to do some basic research into the thing you're defining first
>>64318683
To clarify - you can be an artist just by providing vocals, but we all know pop stars are manufactured, so we needn't have this discussion every time a Beyonce or Taylor Swift releases an album. Just ignore it.
>mfw poptimists get upset when someone points out their favorite music is soulless product
The funniest part is poptimists have to mention Aretha Franklin and other ancient popstars to make an argument that isn't a total joke. This pretty much confirms that every non-writing popstar of the last forty years is an inauthentic hack.
>>64318720
>le condescending beyonce fan meme
nice, friend. Your statement doesn't even make sense.
>Art is about context
could you be any more vague and meaningless?
>>64318766
>insults
you just lost, sorry
>>64318791
I didn't insult you at all?
are all poptimists this insecure?
>>64318806
i don;t even like beyonce
but your definition of art is not the same as 99% of artists or consumers of art , and i am doing you a favour letting you know that, so calm down
>>64318534
>playing the violin isn't an art, you pleb. so what if you are part of a very small group of people who can perfectly play certain pieces of art, it's just sheet music!! a robot could play the violin better than you! never mind that a robot can't improvise or possibly have the same human functions in holding a bow and rubbing it against a piece of wood, but it doesn't matter because in my hypothetical toddler babble world, everything artful can be automated unless you're writing music, as composers are the only 'real' artists. *tips fedora and jerks off to mozart.jpg*
>>64318556
viper puts more effort into his work than Beyonce has ever put into any of her albums.
>>64318874
I agree with everything you said until you started tipping your fedora and masturbating
>>64318841
>consumers of art
kek
I'm done here.
>>64318874
computers can write music too.
>>64317806
>takes innate skill and talent
What do skill and talent have to do with being creative and artistic? Are skilled baseball players "artists" because they spend years perfecting their swing?
>>64318915
what else would you call them? receivers? i don't know another word
you don;t need to be so angry all the time you know, some people like listening to generic sounding music
i like mcdonalds sometimes, so what
i hate when cunts get on my case about stuff like that, like i'm supposed to have lofty standards all the time, uptight cunts
>>64318942
I think the problem is the people in this thread work at subway and take their job title of "sandwich artist" too seriously.
never knew Beyonce fans could get so heated like holy kek whats the point even. At least on /tv/ the Marvelfags don't pretend to actually be interested in or understand cinema
>>64318978
you should hold yourself to a higher standard you dork
everyone should hold themselves to a higher standard. Otherwise, we're no different from apes.
>>64318978
I like some generic pop music as well, still doesn't make Beyonce an artist
>>64319019
>that moment when even /tv/ has more common sense than /mu/
welp that's it lads /mu/ is officially sinking
>>64318915
>"kek. i'm done here"
>>64318874
This is 100% right.
>>64319020
you just sound like a nazi officer now
i mean come on man, i like some hardcore shit so it's nice to just listen to some dirge now and again
a lot of people have a lot of crazy shit going on, they might not have time to explore the world of music like you do
i dunno, who cares what other people like, there's already too much good stuff for me to listen to in a lifetime
>>64319094
None of that makes Beyonce an artist. You can like pop music without deluding yourself into thinking it's art. Just admit it's a guilty pleasure and move on.
>>64319132
oh that again
well sure, why don't you go to a gallery tonight and make that very point, you could be the shot in the arm the art world so desperately needs
>>64319019
This, poptimists are the worst.
>>64319094
what's so bad about national socialism?
at least it's an ethos.
what do you stand for, faggot?
>>64319091
>"painters aren't real artists. they only see things and paint them onto a canvas. if i had a cool super-smart robot, i bet he could paint something just like monet or davinci because guess what, painters are just a recording medium, and the only real artist would be god (if he existed) because he created the things that people paint." *tips fedora*
pfft, that's not even her real hair.
Beyonce is a songwriter, she doesn't write all of her songs sure but she writes a large portion of them, songwriting is an inherent part of being a musician
>>64319206
i don't understand the question
define: stand for
>>64319243
If they're just repainting shit other people have made then yes, they aren't real artists. This "everyone is an artist" mindset is retarded.
>>64319132
>guilty pleasure
jesus christ you fucking pleb. nothing like some fat self-denying faggot to indulge in something and then degrade it to make himself feel better afterwards. "don't say that candy bars are a food. just eat it and call it a guilty pleasure later"
>>64319284
Do you believe humans "ought to" become something greater than dopamine short-circuiting animals?
What do you believe in?
>>64319317
>dopamine short-circuiting animals
what do you mean by this?
>What do you believe in?
what, you want a list of everything?
This thread really just shows how much of /mu/ has no idea about music.
Are we really arguing that Singers arent artist really? I cannot think of a worst place to discus music.
>>64319261
The vast majority of her songs have a ridiculously high amount of co-writers. She has never written a song on her own except for this.
>>64319292
i'm not saying that everyone is an artist. the fact that you keep getting this fucking deluded that i'm arguing that everyone is an artist goes to show your shit-poor reading comprehension and inner conflict. fuck off to hell, mate
Anyone who's ever played SingStar is an artist
t. /mu/
>>64319314
the idea is that you know it is bad, but you degrade yourself as a civilized human by indulging in it.
Candy Bars are shit food, but some people eat them because despite being horrible for you, they're kind of tasty sometimes.
>>64319344
>Seriously? Are you REALLY doing this? I don't have a counter-argument, but I mean COME ON! It's 2016. Are you SERIOUSLY disagreeing with me??
>>64319376
thanks for showing that you're the 500th person in this thread who can't discern between "vocalists are artists" and "everyone is an artist" hurr de fucking durr
So Drake is an artist while Billie Holiday and Pavarotti are not?
>>64319178
>Beyonce
>poptimism
>>64317229
Yes but normalfags are retarded enough to think that justin bieber became a good artist because skrillex and diplo made songs for him
>>64319243
do poptimists realise that you can reject assembly-line mainstream pop music and not be a reddit-tier dadrocker? As in you can have your own opinion about things? i feel like that's something that's holding a lot of people back
>>64319394
well if you could read other people's counter-arguments, you might not be trapped into your logic corner, fuckwit
>>64319463
>fuckwit
are you from reddit?
Well, she has writing credits on pretty much every song on her album...
She contributes to the writing of the art, maybe she writes the vocal melodies, maybe she just helps construct the songs a tiny bit. Just because the core of the idea isn't yours doesn't mean you aren't contributing to the creation of the art at all.
And before someone says "lol they just say she writes, she actually doesn't" , unless you can prove that, then it's just an empty claim.
With skill, the voice is as expressive, enchanting and complex an instrument as any. There have been tons of famous artists who were only singers but were brilliant musicians, and it shows in their work. Capitalism means some people are going to be products and therefore super overrated on an artistic level, but this doesn't really have anything to do with their music, much less the validity of singing in general.
>>64319482
no, but keep convincing yourself that i'm a caricature to ease the pain of you losing an argument.
>>64319419
I didn't say everyone though, I said people who have played SingStar i.e. used their vocal chords to sing other people's songs (like Beyonce)
>>64318706
I've been praying for this day to come.
>>64319512
>implying it's possible to "lose" an argument
top pleb
>>64319530
but of course when Kanye releases another album, the cross-posters will surge back to play "music fan" again...
>>64319515
well, including singstar is dumb because it's a video game, but if you mean people who do song covers, they are indeed artists as well, because they use their vocals as an instrument, even if they're bad. sorry to tell you but not every artist is a composer.
this is now an art thread
post some great art
>>64319585
>"implying you beat me in basketball! just because you got more points than me doesn't mean that i didn't get any points!"
>>64319648
>inb4 memers start posting realismshite
>>64319394
Reading the thread it really just seems like people just don't like Beyonce and cant' really knock her music.
DESU I used to think like that, that vocalist weren't artist etc. But I have been doing work over the past couple of years as a studio tech/sound engineer and honestly just being around a lot more vocalist has changed my mind.
Like you can give two different vocalist the same song same lyrics and get two vastly different things when recorded. So sorry if the idea that a vocalist is not an artist seems absurd to me.
>>64319648
well put
>>64319669
photorealistic dog pictures
>>64319625
So by that logic every karaoke singer is an artist, no? It's literally singing over stuff written by other people.
how many occupations does it take to be a real artist?
instrumentalist
producer
composer
arranger
performer
like which ones are compulsory or else ur talentless hack?
could we find a quantum for the extent that an artist occupies each occupation, to evaluate whether Beyoncé's attributes pass the mathematical model of being an artist?
>>64319697
It's definitely a skill with many applications, but it's not an art.
At the end of the day, you have a job to do, and if you fail to accomplish that, you fail.
Art has no such restriction.
>>64319666
>false analogies
>>64319706
>>64319754
this makes me proud to be british
>>64319741
instrumentalist
producer
composer
arranger
performer
>>64319751
art has the same restriction. ever tried to imagine an unrestricted art? If you idealize "arts" limitlessness and dismiss the rest as "craft" you don't understand what art is, you just jack off to concepts
>>64319780
I would argue only composer is required...
>>64319366
Keep crying, poptimist.
>>64319751
if you fail to make something, you fail as an artist. and don't call out false analogies when you didn't even provide any reasoning as to how losing an argument is impossible
![51JpBiqJf5L._SY355_[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/pOeUISs.jpg "51JpBiqJf5L._SY355_[1].jpg")
>>64319648
>>64319314
No one pretends candy bars are good cuisine, everyone knows they're junk food. You poptimists pretend the musical equivalent of a candy bar is top notch cuisine.
>>64319815
art is by definition unrestricted.
the rest is just craft.
>>64319820
very nice argument you got their, dummy. i'm thinking that you posting this trash-pile of a response after 16 minutes lands you at a nice 95 IQ
I appreciate good vocalists
>>64319863
This should be good. name one example of an unrestricted piece of art.
>>64319751
What do you mean when you say Job and fail?
See you dont get where Im coming from.
I have written entire songs, lyrics instruments, beats the whole nine. and given them to different vocalist.
When I got them back they were all completely different. How is that not artistic interpretation?
How is that not art?
what is your definition of art and what Job are you talking about and how is it different than the job any other instrument does?
Like if I have a song and i say hmm I would love a violin here and I bring in a violin player and tell him what I want him to play is he still an artist?
>>64319855
you got me there, dude. if you're not making the top 10% of an art form, i guess you're just not making art at all.
>>64319884
well of course everything is restricted by the laws of nature, but all art is just the application of intelligence to creation. Artists often choose their medium, and so they have to hone their craft, but on the most intimate level, art is unrestricted creation.
Anything that is a result of passionate creation is art.
>>64319936
this is totally fair, but also totally applies to singing as well as composing or anything you want to contrast it to
>>64319834
>>64319930
not that guy, but to add to his analogy, it would be like calling an employee at the snickers factory a chef
>>64319924
no the violinist is not an artist in that scenario. He's just performing what you have instructed him to do. Perhaps you're a poor instructor, and allow your performers to give their own interpretation of your art, in which case you aren't a very good artist, and clearly don't care about the end result.
>>64319930
>top 10% of an art form
this is the stupidest thing i've ever heard.
There is no "top art" there is art and not art.
>>64319873
Keep letting the tears flow, they fuel me.
>>64319996
This is amazing. I've never seen this before.
>>64319428
Yes. It's not a hard concept to understand.
>>64320114
This one is less amazing.
>>64319999
Ok yea thats what I meant in my first post when I said that nobody here know anything about music.
So you think a performer who gives his own artistic interpretation reflects bad on the actual artist?
You have this like odd warped view of music.
>>64320155
lol i posted the wrong file, that wasn't his
>>64319999
So people cannot collaborate on a music?
>>64320229
they can but if there is no leader guiding the collaboration, it's not art.
>>64320155
that's the one i was looking for
>>64320229
Of course people can collaborate on music. What do you think bands are?
Singing some pre-written and directed lines after a marketing team and a group of producers and songwriters crafted a song and then just slapping the vocalist's name on it as the sole artist is not a collaboration.
>>64320156
and you have this like odd like view on like art like
>>64320266
that's silly.
>>64320271
reminds me of a DMT trip
>>64320296
it is silly, but it's also true in my opinion.
if you squint it could be beyonce
>>64320336
so free jazz isn't art?
>>64320365
nah, it's expression, but it's mindless creation.
Art is mindful creation. For example, Captain Beefheart would improvise on his albums, but he also meticulously controlled every aspect of their performance, so it's still art.
A bunch of people banging drums with recklesss abandon is not art.
>>64319648
beyonce's artistry captured in graphical format
![41d[1].png](https://i.imgur.com/cGKLphj.png "41d[1].png")
>>64320436
>>64320436
look I'm completely against poptimism too, but I don't agree with this either
>>64320474
>Oh no, somebody disagreed with me, I better meme on him
>>64320485
I guess it depends on if you believe in agency or not.
I still do (for some reason), so I can't see collaboration as true art, but I suppose eventually if I change my mind on that, I could see something like Free Jazz to be earthly creation.
>>64320436
bunch of strawmen from an uncultured swine are not valid arguments
>>64320472
>>64317229
I hate beyonce and that's all I have to say about this.
>>64320550
i think youre stuck with the idea of art as valid only above a certain threshold of recognizable content within a specified framework
like 12-tone system or even worse, 12-tone system on a specific level of automation in the mechanism of instruments with which sound is created
god forbid
alot of the conceptualism in art isn't that captivating or cool because a lot of effort is put in simple things like for example, working with dynamic as a free jazz band. or how to produce beauty.
if you were a music digger in a universe where 90% of published music works within the framework of free jazz, you definetly would relate to it more namsayn
>>64320550
the way I look at it is you have to create art to be an artist, improvising is creating art, and just writing the lyrics is art, but you haven't created any music in the latter, you've written poetry...
>>64320292
Yes but as i said earlier. even if the song is pre written and all she has to do it sing it there is still room for artistic interpretation. Like she is involved im sure if she hears something she does not like she has the artistic ability to ommit it from the album..
I jus't want to know on what basis we treat someone who spent their entire lives perfecting thier craft and getting to the top, like she's has 0 creative input and does nothing but sing pre written notes that someone gives her.
Like even when her name is on the credits for help with writing its not enough.
You honestly think that she has no Input? Like its her music its her name its her face... Im lost
where the fuck is the mega
>>64320604
Dude thank you.
At least you are honest about it instead of trying to undermine singing as an art just because you don't like beyonce
>>64318030
there is no way you are over the age of 18. if you are then you are an insufferable person. and if this is bait then fuck it, you got me
>>64318197
hahahaha holy hell how childish can you get
>>64320266
are you saying that improvisation is only art if the participants are not equal in contributing to the creative process?
>>64317580
>implying anything written on Lemonade can be considered art
I just wonder. Why does everybody hate Beyonce so much?
Like we pretend every other pop star dosent exist but every time Beyonce does anything theirs a string of hate threads.
>>64317972
She's at least as much of an artist as kanye now. And we love him.
>>64321097
>She's at least as much of an artist as kanye
>>64321097
haha
the elephant in the room
>>64321097
not everyone fell for the kanye meme either...
>>64317918
>That's something a member of a high school choir could do
implying art cant be shitty
>>64318032
underrated
what about having some imagination
instead of equating beyonce the artistic entity maintained by a group of collaborators, with beyonce the human who might or might not be an artist, just play along and let art thrive
afterall we speak of bands as artists all the time, while often just one of the dudes in the bands is an artist. or there might be a glorious band with three artists and a bassist
>>64321717
no man art is only the right kind of vibe i dig
>>64321846
>there might be a glorious band with three artists and a bassist
I fucking hate you for all discussing this talentless, pornstar bitch. Go fuck yourselves. Seriously.
Get off fucking /mu/ and the internet and go burn out in the sunlight you fucking cancers.
>>64317229
If /mu/ honeslty belives that this is exclusive to beyonce and not a standard in the music industry for decades than this board is full of brain-dead retards.
>>64317229
>>64318005
>>64322555
rip in panda
>>64317469
This
lmao @ this thread like you guys all realize that art isn't about worshipping an artist right
who cares who is actually responsible the final product of her music like if its good and articulates its meaning well then it succeeds as a work of art who cares what individual efforts are actually responsible for it
>>64322555
looks to me like she co wrote and co produced on every single track. Beyonce still sucks, but she is indeed an artist.
>nice trips
>>64320837
>>64320885
>wah they aren't manchildren with low standards who listen to pop music
this is you rn
You can really tell the poptivists have such low self esteem by the way they lash out at anybody who holds anything to a higher standard.
They know that if they allowed any sort of heirarchy in their construction of the world, they would realize how weak and useless they are, so they have to shut it out entirely.
It's kind of sad, really.
>>64321097
>we love him.
speak for yourself
Why haven't Beyonce fans been fed to the dogs yet? It seems like the reasonable outcome and yet this has not happened yet. What gives?
>>64317318
>arethra franklin
more like urethra amirite guys?
>>64317469
Agreed 100%
>>64317806
If you spend your life trying to imitate what has already been composed, you are not making art, you are performing art made by another artist. Sure it takes a long time, but it's not your work.
>>64317914
good job i took the bait this much through the thread.
>>64317469
/thread this early?
