Jazz
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You are currently reading a thread in /mu/ - Music
You are currently reading a thread in /mu/ - Music
Are these the five most important figures in jazz history?
1. Louis Armstrong
2. Duke Ellington
3. Charlie Parker
4. Miles Davis
5. John Coltrane
If you don't think they are, who do you think the top 5 most important are?
If you agree with that top 5, who do you think 6 through 10 would be?
1. Louis Armstrong
2. Duke Ellington
3. Charlie Parker
4. Miles Davis
5. John Coltrane
Ornette Coleman deserves to bein the top 5 over Coltrane
>>64144393
By "important" do you mean influential?
Those are definitely the 5 most influential.
I'd say 6 is definitely Monk.
7 is maybe Mingus.
8 maybe Ornette
After that it's tricky.
>>64144393
Bump Coltrane and Parker out of the Top 5 and replace them with Fletcher Henderson and Benny Goodman.
01- Louis Armstrong
02- Duke Ellington
03- Fletcher Henderson
04- Miles Davis
05- Benny Goodman
06- Art Tatum
07- Ornette Coleman
08- John Coltrane
09- King Oliver
10- Charlie Parker
>>64145228
Henderson #3 and Bird #10? Parker should be up there in the top 5, he pioneered bebop and formed the basis for jazz vocabulary which literally every jazz musician since has studied and Incorporated.
>>64145228
lol wat
>>64145228
> believing anybody cared this much about swing in the jazz word after bebop modernized the entire artform
>>64145319
>since
henderson literally wrote the book that everyone played when jazz was forming and first being recorded. were his arrangements being played when jazz was first being recorded and broadcast on radio.
inventing bebop is a notch below that. sorry parker stans.
Albert Ayler
Charlie Parker
Ornette Colemon
Miles
Coltrane
>>64145493
>word
>>64145564
Sure, he matters, but there were plenty of more enduring musicians that came after him even in the swing era and I don't think anybody is eagerly pouring over his catalogue like they would, say, Ellington's or Armstrong's. And if it weren't for bebop jazz would be about as irrelevant as Louis Jordan talking about fucking fish fries.
Reminder to come get involved in the /Blindfold Test/ threads every Friday.
This week's theme is the criss cross record label.
http://www58.zippyshare.com/v/18nM0DFx/file.html
>>64144393
Miles number one hands down. No discussion.
Other than that, yeah probably that.
6-10?
Diz and Herbie for sure...
maybe Shorter, Jarrett and Metheny?
>>64144393
6. Thelonious Monk
7. Ornette Coleman
8. Charles Mingus
9. Bill Evans
10. Art Blakey
>>64144393
>>64145228
1. Buddy Bolden
2. Louis Armstrong
3. Spencer Williams
4. Fats Waller
5. Nick LaRocca
>implying bop means anything
>>64145765
He should probably be number two but as far as shaping how the genre sounds, Louis Armstrong was more important and is arguably the most important figure in popular music in general.
>>64144393
How important do you think bix beiderbeck ws? I've heard very but he doesn't sound too amazing to me
>>64145717
swing saved the music industry. like it not that is a fact. records weren't being pressed anymore because of the depression. the pop songs of the time had to make room for swing which blew up jazz, which was still a niche genre that was only popular amongst teens and african americans. swing brought jazz to adults, middle america and white adults in general. everything that came after is literally just that.
>>64145871
>no scott Joplin
It's like you don't even get the roots of the music man.
>>64145919
Big band music should have died with Glen Miller
>>64145946
We're not even talking Ragtime asshole, you want to discuss the historical points of Treemonisha?
>>64145919
I'd be hard pressed to deny it didn't dominate popular music but it also petered out pretty hardcore and the only reason jazz even existed anymore was because of crooners and bebop opening the floodgates for modern jazz.
>>64145916
Well people talk about his tone a lot and how he was someone who was thinking about the timbre of his playing a lot more carefully than his contemporaries but the actual style he was playing was pretty influential on the cool jazz scene and you can look at him as an early precursor to that too. Which is a big deal but he's not like top 10 material.
>>64145990
Ragtime is basically proto-jazz though. I just don't think you're not being reactionary enough yet.
>>64145949
getting a dozen musicians to move in the same direction is beyond impressive, especially when you consider what a stone-cold overlord miller was and how much of a drag it must've been to play for conservatives. somebody had to entertain the republicans.
>>64145946
What kind of a le classy bowler hat wearing fuck actually listens to ragtime? If I want music to fuck a woman wearing a frilly dress and a feather headband to I'll hit up a playlist of piano roll classic and pelvic thrust staccato to the left hand rhythm.
>>64146100
Ragtime is proto-jazz, but the discussion topic was influential jazz players, not influential american musicians. Have you listen to Jelly Roll Morton's stuff?
>>64146191
Man I'm not even sure we're joking anymore. We did start talking like this as a joke didn't we?
1. Duke Ellington
2. Bix Beiderbecke
3. Charlie Parker
4. Albert Ayler
5. Louis Armstrong
Whatever.
>>64146100
that guy is super high strung. if bebop gets to be in this thread then so does ragtime. play it without any setup for any normie on the street and ask them to classify what genre it belongs to and you're guaranteed to get "jazz" almost every time.
>>64146051
>muh everything that came after
>>64146161
Do you know of Count Basie?
>>64146219
My life is a joke
Wynton Marsalis obviously, first jazz Pulitzer.
parker
ellington
armstrong
really the rest don't matter given those three instruments i don't know
>>64146279
he missed my top 10 by a spot or 2. and i love everyone in my top 10 almost equally i might add. we're literally splitting hairs here and it's stupid. i'm as awed by a guy like chick webb, who held down the savoy while armstrong, goodman and ellington were all off having adventures as i am awed by the dense interplay of the big bands and the ornate modal stuff. no condescending genre fags from /mu/ are going to change that. bebop is actually my favorite jazz sub genre. but the question was who are the important dudes. i have to list the architects before the disciples.
>>64145871
you are shit if you think bop doesn't mean anything
>Waller
nice meme, if memes were real back then Fats would be a meme.
feel like Jelly Roll should be honorary top 10 selection. generally agree with OP and i get that these discussions usually leave out vocalists, but i feel like a lot of longevity for jazz was ensured by vocal jazz artists who performed through the war and everything, and it seems weird to completely exclude them. my gut idea is to go for Billie Holiday, but maybe someone else would be more appropriate.
>>64146537
Armstrong was pretty fucking known for his singing my man, but yeah ella or billie or something
>>64146408
marsalis is underrated af. he's fused jazz with gospel and country and maybe he's only seen as a torch bearer by most but he's a walking encyclopedia and a mentor and still the face of mainstream, modern jazz. it's too bad that makes him persona non grata here but that's the price you pay i guess.
Tatum
>>64146568
duh, but i don't think people would label armstrong *exclusively a vocalist
>>64144393
I think you need some Buddy Rich in there, but I'm a jazz drummer so I may be biased
>>64144393
1. gene kruppa
2. max roach
3. miles davis
4. charlie parker
5. john coltrane
>>64146792
I wouldn't say he was even primarily a trumpet player either though so
Anthony Braxton
Peter Brötzmann
Don Cherry
Evan Parker
Sun Ra
1. Julian Priester
2. Alan Shorter
3. Harry Carney
4. Freddie Redd
5. Gary Bartz
>>64146926
kek
>>64144393
1. John Coltrane
2. Miles Davis
3. Charles Mingus
4. Duke Ellington
5. Louis Armstrong
>>64146926
I know you're trying to be funny, but these people are definitely some of the most important people to modern jazz.
>>64146601
If by here you mean /jazz/, he's not discussed because there's a population of jazz fans that think he plays like a talented music major who hasn't quite figured out what being an artist sounds like. He's also a massive traditionalist who's the poster boy for the side of jazz that won't accept progress and growth in the genre.
>>64144393
I think these are the correct names and placement.
6. Monk
7. Mingus
8. Sonny Rollins
9. Bill Evans
10. Max Roach
11. Ornette Coleman
12. Oscar Peterson
13. Charlie Christian
14. Benny Goodman
15. Glenn Miller
16. Count Basie
17. Billie Holiday
18. Ella Fitzgerald
19. Oscar Peterson
20. Art Tatum
21. Sun Ra
22. Wayne Shorter
23. Wynton Marsalis
Some others that don't appear off the top of my head.
your #5 is interchangeable with another 4 or 5 jazz legends, there's really more like a top 10 influential jazz figures. but your first 4 are spot on.
>>64145228
>>64145564
>>64145717
>>64145919
>>64146051
>>64146256
Bird, Diz, and Oscar Peterson should be on the list. Bebop was a turning point in jazz history. Jazz was dance music/entertainment for the masses. Then, bebop changed it to an art from.
One could argue that some of Ellington's works were more art than mainstream entertainment, but when the bebop virtuosos came along, jazz musicians and the genre as a whole were taken much more seriously as artists.
>>64149531
>Oscar Peterson
He's a good pianist but in the top 5 jazz artists ever? He wasn't really innovative or influential.
