I don't get why Marilyn Manson became as big as he was? Literally he had no hit songs, people know him more for his name than his music. His first album wasn't successful by commercial standards at all, nor was the EP that followed. How the hell does that make sense? What even made him famous? I'm just really fuckin confused why he became literally as big/influential as someone like Elvis. It doesn't make any sense! /marilynmanson/ explain for me?
>>63924817
>Literally he had no hit songs
that's objectively untrue. Sweet Dreams was huge on mtv back in the day and he's had some other singles chart. His persona worked really well in the music video format. Also, Antichrist Superstar is a pretty good album, though Trent Reznor was a big part of that
>>63924817
He and Reznor capitalized on that brand of industrial rock at the right time. Until then Manson was edgy as fuck as far as mainstream showmen went. They were so big they spawned a shit load of NIN copycats.
>>63924956
Yeah Antichrist Superstar was good, not saying it wasn't. Sweet Dreams was also pretty famous but a lot of people who know who he is have no idea he covered that song. I just think it's weird that for someone so famous m, he doesn't really have any songs that people know him for.
Other musicians of the time definitely did, like Trent with Closer, Kurt Cobain with Smells Like Teen Spirit, even Billy Corgan with Zero/1979/All of Mellon Collie really.
For someone as huge and influential (?) as Manson to not have a signature song is idk weird
>>63925076
>they were so big they spawned a shitload of NIN copycats
wait who was so big; Trent, Manson, or... huh??
>edgy as fuck
have you read his biography? He never really stopped trying to be edgy af, lol
>>63924817
>Literally he had no hit songs
Sweet Dreams, The Beautiful People and The Dope Show were all top hitting chart singles. Even Disposable Teens and Mobscene were somewhat popular songs.
He also had a large international following in Europe and Japan.
>>63924817
He got a shit ton of attention from the media because of his "violent" and "satanic" music. Especially after Columbine.
>>63925080
>No signatures songs
>What is Beautiful People
That shit was everywhere.
>>63925104
They were both on the same boat, Reznor produced a lot of Manson's stuff. I guess in the late 90's Manson was probably the most famous one as far as name goes.
>>63925198
>columbine
newfag here, what's that
>>63925216
Trent was more famous under the guise of the name "Nine Inch Nails", but Marilyn Manson was more a household name.
Oh god the NIN copycats were shit as fuck. Gravity Kills actually had a top-charting single, what in the fuck...
>>63925219
School shooting (before they were popular). Media went into a frenzy blaming the two kids responsible as being brainwashes by Doom, Marilyn Manson, and other 90s alt dark shit.
>>63925284
>before they were popular
get back to /pol/ m8
>>63925246
yeah, Stabbing Westward was pretty bad too
>>63925219
>newfag
More like underage.
>>63925458
oooof even that name is shit
haha oh boy the copycats were so uninspired. I can't believe GK got their song put in Se7en
He was just the right kind of edgy to be big in the 90s. Can't think of a better explanation than that.
>>63925246
>NIN invented industrial
stop that right now
>>63925512
Where the fuck did I say that
>>63925080
>I just think it's weird that for someone so famous m, he doesn't really have any songs that people know him for.
It's almost as though it was a long fucking time ago or something.
>>63925495
>didn't commit suicide
>didn't make a fake snuff film
>didn't appear on The Simpsons or any other culturally significant show of the time
literally how was he the edgiest in the time of cobain and reznor and the simpsons
>>63925512
nobody said that m8. NIN's massive success did lead to copycats though
>>63925539
you know what I mean, even other rock stars of the time had signature songs that people don't forget
>>63925552
>he didn't appear in mainstream stuff so that means he's not edgy
what
the dude is possibly surpassed by only GG Allin and Sid Vicious in sheer edge.
>>63925561
this.
>>63925481
People who turn 18 this year would have been two or three when Columbine happened.
>>63925591
>the dude is possibly surpassed by only GG Allin and Sid Vicious in sheer edge
holy shit imagine being this ignorant
also my point was that he obviously wasn't as famous/edgy as other rockstar of the time (didn't even get a mention on the Simpsons) -how is he one of the most memorable people of the 90s
>>63925246
Some of them were pretty good imo. Sister Machine Gun and Filter (project from one of the guys that played in NIN) had some good albums.
>>63925591
Vicious was tame af he was just a junkie dude.
>>63925638
Do you really think Kurt Cobain was edgy just because he killed himself and pretended to hate his most popular song?
>>63925665
I just said he was edgy, I didn't deny that he was a talentless junkie piece of shit that never did a single thing of worth in his entire life.
>>63925666
No but he was edgier than Manson for actually carrying out the act of suicide instead of just singing about it like Manson did
I knew who he was since I can remember but the only song I know from him is Personal Jesus and that's a cover.
He is a big household name.
>>63925677
rude
>>63925665
I'd consider walking around London in a swastika shirt at a time when it was virtually guaranteed that the average middle aged person there had either fought in World War II or had their house bombed to pretty fucking edgy.
>>63925687
That's because he didn't do it as some sort of statement, he did it because of depression and crippling back pain.
>>63925719
>big household name
Yeah, my question is how this can be the case when he's not famous for any particular song. It's weird because he's a rockstar, they're **musicians** after all.
>>63925687
>suicide
>not murder
I don't think Cobain was edgy for the sake of edgyness like Manson. He actually had reasons to do the stuff he did.
>>63925677
Even on a edgyness scale he was tame. Hanatarash, Gerogerigegege, Genesis Orridge, Richey Edwards, those guys were all more edgy than Sid.
>>63925725
it's true
he was just a garbage person. He wasn't even plugged in half the time when they played, he was just a fashion accessory to the band.
Dee Dee Ramone was a junkie and a bit of an idiot too but at least he wrote great songs.
>>63925750
his image and place as a 90s cultural boogieman is unfortunately more enduring than his music
>>63925750
His ''controversial'' image created a lot of buzz among the masses.
>>63925750
>my question is how this can be the case when he's not famous for any particular song
You've been told wrong in this very thread multiple times.
>>63925665
I was surprised to learn recently that Filter are still putting out albums.
>>63925666
Do you think Heath Ledger was edgy for playing an edgy character? Because Marilyn Manson is the first to admit that his stage persona is just an act. Kirk Cobain wasn't playing a character.
>>63924817
I've never really actually listened to his music to a significant extent, but god I hate his fans so much. Every time I meet one they always ramble on about how "he's not like how he is on stage in real life!" and proceed to show me some YouTube video where he's being interviewed, as if I'm supposed to be flabbergasted that he can talk like a normal polite human being without randomly killing a baby or going into a tirade of expletives, and that somehow makes him a genius.
>>63925726
>crippling back pain
aw
no but my point is that Manson was called "edgy" just for singing about suicide. Technically Cobain is edgier because he went the extra mile and actually did kill himself
>>63925808
But what about Kurt Cobain's persona is even edgy? He was just a completely normal guy with completely normal musical influences. He didn't even hold any edgy beliefs, just normal Hollywood liberal type stuff that all celebrities have always believed.
>>63925768
How did he get to that label, though? Literally what made him the runaway success and household name he was and is today?
>>63925828
hahahaha this
he's literally proto-BVB tier, all his fans are scene kids or edgy emo/goth teenagers
it's so cringe desu
>>63925878
Nothing about him was edgy. It's just odd that Manson is more memorable for existing than a guy who literally killed himself and sang a song called Rape Me
>>63925902
being on MTV non-stop from like 1995-2001
>>63925902
not him and not trying to be rude but how much more could it be elaborated
he got a lot of attention in the 90's because of his image and "edgy" or whatever behaviour and because of the the controversy that was caused when his music was linked to the columbine school shooting
there really isn't a whole lot more to it
>>63925973
but I mean heaps of musicians were just as edgy as him but were never noticed for it and thus never became famous, my question is how did it happen for Manson because his music itself is bland IMO so what did he have that made him stand out
>>63926002
I think he got most of his attention because he didn't shy away from playing the media game. He smartly marketed himself as this big bad boogeyman to the masses. Hell I remember him appearing on the Phil Donahue Show scaring the bejeezus out of middle American housewives before he ever had a hit song.
>>63926002
he had a really bold look, and stylishly grim music videos with lots of shocking imagery and he was popular, so he became a scapegoat for everything wrong the kids by soccer moms. That's about it
>good propaganda
>good shock acts
>good tenebre music
yeah, i wonder why is so popular....
>>63926002
well i guess it's always hard to pinpont the exact reason why some musicians get famous and others don't even though they appear very similar
but i actually have a hard time recalling any other 90's artists in the exact same vein of manson who had the same focus on being this freakish, edy character. i think he just kind of "outfreaked" a lot of the artists back then (and im not talking about underground artists like genesis p-orridge) but in the mainstream media
>>63925917
This, actually; I'm surprised this hasn't been touched on more in the thread.
Marilyn Manson's fame comes from a commercialized edginess that was eaten up by youth who wanted to act rebellious. Other celebrities of the time didn't quite have the whole "dresses up in women's clothes, calls themselves the 'God of Fuck', sings about drugs and murder" shtick that Manson was peddling. Because Billy Corgan and Kurt Cobain didn't push a look that could be emulated by young people and therefore couldn't scare adults.
Most of Manson's fanbase are youngsters looking for rebellion- and Manson was incredibly accessible. This trend carried through to the 2000s, where bands such as Black Veil Brides and MCR build their entire fortunes pushing an easily-adoptable "edgy" image to teenagers from conventionally secular and normal backgrounds.
>>63926079
>MM on the Phil Donahue show
golden stuff. one of the best and weirdest things to come out of a 90s talk show.
>>63925878
>He didn't even hold any edgy beliefs
I agree with you, but Kurdt definitely had some edgy beliefs.
i mean dude, he's marilyn manson. when he got into the music scene, he really started to develop his own new identity which he valued mores than the music itself. he was going against the crowd as much as he could, while also making sure his music was heard. but his image was what he valued most, who he was, who his audience was, how he saw his audience and how his audience saw him. sometimes he'd just go up on stage and cut himself for 15 minutes destroying gear. then NIN would play. people loved it and parents hated him, it was a a part of him being understood.
Because he's edgy pop that your sister can like
>>63926178
>>63926079
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=47TWt3vi9hc
>>63925573
THE
BEAUTIFUL
PEOPLE
>>63926376
N O
O
>>63926346
classic
oh god phil was a pleb
>>63926435
YES
THIS SONG WAS HUGE AND STAYED HUGE WELL INTO THE 2000s
IT WAS A HIT
AND IT STAYED A HIT FOR A DECADE
YOUR PREMISE IS INACCURATE
>>63926346
Oh my heavens! Moshing and stage diving! Someone think of the children! That all seems so quaint these days.
anyone know why the Nachtkabarett hasn't been updated for 5 years?
>>63926546
dunno, but it's a great site nonetheless
>>63925080
>>63925198
>>63925216
I grew up in the 90s, Manson was big as fuck for every highschool kid until mainstream emo came along.
I don't know why either. All I ever heard about hims was he was in some devil worship shit and people hated him because he got a bunch of kids to shoot people or some shit. He sounded like a complete fucking edgelord to me.
![tumblr_nlqq2kumSU1r98q99o1_400[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/33Cd7iW.jpg "tumblr_nlqq2kumSU1r98q99o1_400[1].jpg")
>>63926600
ironcially the Columbine shooters disliked Manson and were actually KMFDM fans
>>63926002
Image, all image. That was Manson's shtick.
>>63926672
now that's edgy
>>63926672
I wonder if he's the last true rock star? It seems no one since has caused so much hand wringing and parental outrage. Nobodies parents seem to get their panties in a bunch over say, Jack White, these days.
>>63926223
yeah this, a couple days ago somebody uploaded a screenshot of his journals
:^)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tndjTx15op4
>>63925219
fucking lmao
>>63926672
bieber was actually seen wearing a manson-shirt so he manson simply did the same
>>63926695
how is that edgy?
>>63926905
>Marilyn Manson, he's not nice
>Marilyn Manson's shows are overpriced
i forgot how good these lyrics are
>>63926851
I've had this conversation a number of times and I am convinced he was.
>>63926851
thats an interesting argument. certainly no one with any fame/on a major record label
>>63925687
Manson very rarely sings about suicide and criticizes the shit out of victims of it.
>>63926851
rock star doesn't have to be synonymous with shocking though. I would argue that Jack White is the last rock star, but Manson is the last one to rattle middle America. Even rappers are having a hard doing that anymore
>>63924817
Manson obviously 'spoke to' a lot of lonely, angst filled teens looking for something to grasp onto back then. He certainly wasn't part of any subculture movement but he was presented as being of one, and his audience enjoyed that I guess. It helps that Antichrist Superstar, Mechanical Animals and Holy Wood were fucking great.
>>63926953
they ought to make something together
>>63926644
I remember Rammstein getting dragged into that controversy too. It was the first time I'd ever heard of them.
>>63926672
Is that a recent pic? Looks like he's lost weight.
![strobelight-cover-art[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/HZSaMjj.jpg "strobelight-cover-art[1].jpg")
>>63927108
Trent Reznor needs to actually make this grimy disco funk masterpiece and feature them together on a track
>>63927154
he has. bless him.
I grew up in the 90's and loved Manson. Still love his music.
Portrait of an American Family didn't have any real "HITS", though lunchbox and get your gunn were pretty popular in the underground scene. This was when tape trading was still huge in schools. NIN was insane popular and Manson was seen as a darker version of Reznor.
When Antichrist Superstar came out in 1996, it was huge. The beautiful People, Tourniquet, and Man that you Fear were played on MTV all the time and Beautiful People was always on the radio. It was the intro song for WWF RAW which back then was getting fucking 10 million people watching a week.
Mechanical Animals had a MASSIVE marketing campaign. Dope show, coma white, I don't like the drugs and rock is dead were on the radio and in a crap load of movies and other media. Again MTV was still relvant and he was on there constantly.
Columbine happened and Manson was mentioned on the news constantly. Even though the two kids hated him and preferred KMFDM, no one knew who the fuck KMFDM were so they used Manson as a scape goat. He was a household name again, though for all the wrong reasons.
Holy Wood had some hits, though nothing really played now. It was the last album Manson released while he was still an A-list music celebrity. He was super famous from 1996-2001
After this, he still had a huge fan base, but all of his albums have been crap shoots since Holy Wood. I hated Golden age of Grotesque, loved Eat Me Drink Me, thought High end of Low was good, hated Born Villain, and loved Pale Emperor.
Also, his live show is pretty shit and has been for the past 8 or so years. He can pull out winners hear and there, but the years of drug abuse have fucked him terribly. He has a massive ego, but can still sell out medium sized venues with $70 tickets.
Also, he is a huge influence on the goth and BDSM scene over the past 20 years. It's not as big as it was, but it still sees him as a huge inspiration
I think the last time I heard about Manson was when Paris Jackson tried to kill herself because she wasn't allowed to see him in concert or something. I used to be a fan but sort of drifted away from his style of music. I should check out the Pale Emperor tho since I've heard good things about it.
>>63927223
this
>>63927285
I totally missed that. Here is a clip of the "tribute" - goddamn Manson looks horrible in this clip. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hzEKunVtpMM
>>63927223
oh yea, I fucking forgot about Sweet Dreams!
So "Smells like Children" came out and it was a very shit "remix album" that had the Sweet Dreams cover. It was played EVERYWHERE and was on MTV probably once an hour.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uMK0prafzw0
he appears on the end of this music video . dam he's tall
>>63927371
Man that looks sad.
>>63927223
>hated Born Villain
I've never understood this. born villain is definitely the best album he's done after holy wood, great songwriting, the only flaw is the sometimes sloppy vocaldelivery. thinking high end of low was better than born villain in any sense is absolutely ridiculous, I mean come on, the amount of filler-songs and generally boring songwriting on high end of low was just.. ugh.
It was the 90s. He was everywhere.
>>63927462
>he appears on the end of this music video . dam he's tall
Yeah he's tall but to be fair Yolandi is like 5'.
