I'm high and listening to this album, I just realized it contains lots of homosexualities and subliminal messages
is that a problem?
good thing that faggot killed himself
>>63866685
He didn't kill himself, Deborah Curtis did.
>>63866338
Where's your proof?
Disorder says I've been waiting for a guy to take me by the hand idgaf wut the lyrics sites say
>>63867344
>I'VE BEEN WAITING FOR A GUY TO COME AND TAKE MY BY THE HAND
>COULD THESE SENSATIONS MAKE ME FEEL THE PLEASURES OF ANOTHER MAN
>>63866338
It's garbage so who cares?
>>63867646
This is one of my favourite albums of all time, does this make me a faggot or not?
>>63866338
>listening
how do you listen to a t-shirt?
>>63867672
no it doesnt, they are memeing.
god i hope these cancer threads get off /mu/
>>63867672
It makes you a faggot for liking this garbage
>>63867704
Explain why it's garbage
>>63867754
God damn how many fucking times have I typed this out
*kick snare kick snare*
*root note chugging*
*power chord chugging*
*vocalist mumbles incohrently*
>>63867838
god shut the fuck up you pretentious faggot
you make me sick
>>63867666
Woah kid watch that edge
>>63867893
Good job you definitely refuted my statement
>>63867897
Good job you definitely refuted my statement
>>63867944
Nice dubs
I don't need to refute your shit statement
>>63867972
So basically you're going to throw around ad hominem and not attempt to prove me wrong?
Alright, thanks for confirming once again that Joy Division fans are retards who base their opinions off of what critics tell them to like
>>63868011
Your gay
>>63868041
you're waifu a shit
This album is pretty awesome, gay or not still rocks
>>63867646
can't tell if joking or not
>>63868011
not him, but just so you know, for future reference and all, that was no an ad hominem. Also, just because you didn't enjoy something doesn't make it "bad" (as if such a thing could be measured), nor does it mean that no one else is allowed to enjoy it. If you don't like this album, hide this thread and move on, because people like you bring down the whole board and it was shitty enough before you got here
>>63868146
>photo is from tumblr
How very predictable
>>63868178
>"god shut the fuck up you pretentious faggot you make me sick"
>"Woah kid watch that edge"
If that's not ad hominem I don't know what is.
Wow, so I'm not allowed to challenge your liking of an album with my dislike of it? Stay on reddit instead if you want a fucking safe space
>>63868178
>wasting your time
Those weren't even the right lyrics anon he's memeing
>>63868220
all this edge
>>63867689
Underrated ass fuck
>>63868243
a d
h o m i n e m
>>63868229
Huh? I never mentioned anything about lyrics. Do all Joy Division fans also have reading comprehension issues?
>>63868278
what do you think about new order
>>63868220
lel, you are a troll, right?
Guys, don't feed this creature
>>63868417
Another one of those cashout bands that basically aim to make as much off "muh lead singer dead" as possible, just like Foo Fighters
>>63868446
>EVERYTHING I DON'T LIKE IS BAIT
Wow, I knew Joy Division fans were dense but this is legit pushing it
>>63868278
ad hominem
>>63868523
A little ad hominem is fine if you're tacking it onto the end of an argument to drill the point in.
If all you have to say is "fuck you niger faggot shit joy divisiona re the best" then you have a problem
>>63868568
No matter what you think about them, you can't dispute that at the very least they were influential to post punk.
>>63868655
They were influential, no doubt. They influenced my favorite band for fuck's sake.
That doesn't mean I have to like them.
>>63868678
What band would that be
>>63868447
I don't understand. Just because one member of their band died, they were supposed to disperse and stop making music?
>>63868738
Swans
>inb4 a hundred and one memes and jokes about le p4k or le entry level
>>63868741
No, but blatantly using his death as a marketing tactic is an awful thing to do
>>63867646
It's guide, not guy.
>>63867344
Unknown Pleasures literally means the faggot was looking for the ''pleasures of a normal man'', it means he was not content with having intercourse with women and that's why he killed himself.
>>63868782
>>63868782
>Swans
lol, of course it would be swans
jesus youre the most autistic tripfag ive seen on here in a long ass time
>>63868810
it's also normal man, but he knew that
>>63866338
>>63867646
Who fucking cares?
>>63868856
a d
h o m i n e m
>>63868895
you are a faggot
>>63868957
you're waifu a shit
>>63868895
What a retard, you better start thinking about going anonymous
>>63868895
Jesus enough to with the ad hominem you faggot. If you don't like joy division whatever man that's just your opinion. leave this thread if you dislike no point in being here
>>63869008
I'm here to challenge your opinons on the band and see why people like what I don't. The first few posts on here were just firing shots to get the pot simmering.
Evidently you guys simply can't justify your opinions without ad hominem, circular arguing or just not making useless points.
>>63869010
>Has a user name to literally only shit talk about Joy Division
>Whines about ad hominem
Are you that stupid?
>>63869086
What? My tripcode's function is as stated >>63868773. I wouldn't make a tripcode just to spew hatred of a band I don't like, much less name it something completely irrelevant to said band.
And if you don't notice I post about anything and everything on here, But you probably wouldn't really see that because you're either in a containment thread or you're extremely new here.
>>63868852
This is bait and I have autism but I mean, epillepsy and early wedlock and severe depression are reasonable enough without having to be in the closet.
>>63869042
People don't listen to joy division for the complicated music structure. They listen to them for the tone and the feels of the songs. Each song shows you what Ian Curtis has felt in his life and I believe most people connect with them for this. That's why I like joy division
>>63869231
But I like plenty of music that focuses on emotions rather than complexity. For example, Spiderland is my favorite album and that's anything but complex. Swans, as I mentioned earlier, use excessive amounts of repetition and extremely simple compositions. I regard both to be better than say, Magma, or King Crimson, who use excessively structured and complicated songwriting.
Why is that? How is it that I can appreciate emotional music but yet cannot appreciate Joy Division
>>63869327
I don't know, do you like the smiths?
>>63869354
I actually haven't bothered to give them a listen. I sort of skipped them while browsing the /mu/core chart back when I started and I've basically left that area now
>>63869366
Then you might not like the whole depressive post-punk era
>>63869327
How should I know? I can't make you like or hate something. But what I don't understand is why you say the album sucks? That very record pioneered a new genre and influenced a band that you like. So tell me why is it a bad album.
>>63869449
It doesn't really matter, The Beatles may have influenced my favorite bands but I still despise them.
subliminal messages? probably. homosexualities? no.
>>63869131
I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and assume that you didn't create this thread anonymously to rustle the jimmies of Joy Division fans, as you seem like you want an actual response.
The amount of fear and isolation conveyed through Ian Curtis' lyrics cannot be understood. You can try to relate, or just pass it off as garbage, but the fact of the matter is you're never going to know just what was going through his head. The way I see it, we're talking about a man with epilepsy, and severe depression. I've never seen Control, and I've never really researched the band extensively, but I heard something in their music. It's not all in the lyrics either, in fact I don't know who shares songwriting credit here, but your typical argument that the album is all "bum...tiss, bum tiss" is fucking stupid and immature. The band plays a very minimal style with unconventional guitar riffs that just happens to be kind of simple. Really I don't think any of the instrumentation here is overly simple, have you ever tried playing any of the songs on an instrument? The drum lines may be minimal but it drives the songs and keeps them together, like a well-oiled machine. I think the production of the album is what makes it legendary too. Very clean sounding, you can make out every instrument easily, a lot of mid range, it almost sounds sterile, cold and surreal, like the reality Curtis faces. Now let's get back to Curtis. I may be biased, this album helped me get out of a very difficult identity crisis part of my life. I think the lyrics are brilliant, and I don't expect everyone to understand them.
(1/2)
>>63869511
A few themes I can definitely relate to and say are there include wanting something more, the natural urge we as humans have to strive and achieve excellence, to the point of making our bodies obsolete. Look at all the things we are surrounded by that makes life so much easier. The way we as humans hardly need to use any of our natural survival skills/instincts, the human body is becoming more obsolete. This is brought up at least in Disorder, the song you liken to homosexuality. The next one is pretty simple, a song that always stood out to me was New Dawn Fades, and is probably my favorite song on the album. This track is always gut-wrenching and hard to hear, but god damn the feels are strong. Simply put, and because I'm getting tired of writing this, the song (to me) is about reaching new plateaus in life, noticing the change, and wanting to go back. Waking up one day and realizing you are someone completely different, becoming unfamiliar with yourself as you go through life. Since I'm not a fucking music critic, and I haven't "studied" the songs because I enjoy them and don't need some kind of validation, the only other one that clicks with me personally is She's Lost Control. Maybe not personally, but I think this song is Ian Curtis trying to explain what it's like for him to enter an epileptic seizure. The song builds up on kind of a crescendo riff, where I think the word "she" is a metaphor for the unstable part of one's brain, losing control at the wrong moment, launching into unknown territory, or in his case, the seizure. These are all just theories but they're things I've always thought about the album.
>>63869511
>>63869532
You hit it on the nail man. Thanks for this
>>63869511
>>63869532
First of all, he didn't create the thread and you forgot to add that they basically invented the electronic drumming sound effect on acoustic drums. ''She's Lost Control'' is not a metaphor for anything, it's literally about an epileptic girl Ian knew who dies and the band feels bad about it.
>>63869418
I'm a big fan of experimental post-punk, Metal Box, This Heat s/t and Hex Enduction Hour are some of my favorite albums.
I can sort of understand that people might bond well with that record but I don't understand why people bother with it when other bands and albums do the whole depression act better
>>63869449
It's just so incredibly uninteresting. The band sound like they're forced to play the music they wrote. The drums are so simplistic a 5 year old could have written those patterns. The bass and guitar parts all play stuff which Wonderwall playing douchebags could outclass without even trying.
I mean, there's nothing wrong with simplicity, but the way the band does it is just so damn boring. It lacks any energy, it feels sterile
And don't get me started on Curtis' annoying vocals and even more annoying vocal performances.
It's everything I don't like about music rolled into one package.
>>63869511
>>63869532
I never take off my tripcode, so no, unfortunately the OP is not me.
The lyrics come off to me as cookie cutter "depression lmoa dude gonna kill maiself" lyrics. They don't seem inspired or creative in any way.
Yes, he had several severe mental disorders. That doesn't automatically make his music "good" or "deep". It adds a little context but it's not big enough a difference to change the fact that they're just so... grey.
Their just comes off as barely passable background music for couples to fuck to. It can barely grab my attention and I've found myself lost in drone albums for fuck's sake. I don't hear anything "special" about it, that's for sure.
There is nothing unconventional about playing power chords. Nothing.
It's immature? Why's that? Because you disagree? Well too bad.
I'm a professional multi-instrumentalist, their songs are so basic I could pick them up in an hour without looking at any tablature at all. You can challenge me all you want but picking a "have you even tried playing their songs" route is a bad idea.
Heres your (You), (You).
>>63869639
See you get an intelligent response and all you do is still shit all over the band. You don't like them and I don't think any more arguments will change your stance which you clearly don't feel like moving from.
>>63869633
Well like I said, I've never really gone and researched the history of the band or anything, I just know I love their music.
>>63869639
Well I always thought the bassline for Disorder was kind of unique and different. I don't only play bass, I'm a multi instrumentalist too, as douche-y as that sounds to say. I guess I'm a "professional" musician too if you wanna get technical. There are SO many songs I can pick up by ear without tabulature, and really it's about the songwriting, not how complicated something is to play. That should not fit into the equation at all. We're talking about pop music for fucks sake. For POP MUSIC, that album has some interesting riffs and hooks. It's like a modern art piece. You look at it and think "why didn't I think of that?" I'm listening to Day of the Lords right now, not even a single or anything, and I'm thinking that's a creative lead right there. What kind of music do you really like?
I don't know many normies that seriously listen to this band, let alone fuck to it. Are you projecting? This is not sexy music.
this thread is cancer
>>63869763
Agree
>>63869511
>>63869532
Nothing wrong with minimalistic drumlines, as I mentioned Spiderland is my favorite album and the drum parts are minimalistic yet genius. Yet on Spiderland the drums are unique. They doing something interesting. Britt's drumming style is unorthodox and special. I can't say the same with Joy Division. It's not only simplistic but also derivative and generic.
Sure, the production is good. That's not going to save its ass. If the next BrokeNCYDE album had Kanye-tier production would you listen to it?
Yes, there are some relatable music themes, but as I said, there are many, many other albums that do this better. Spiderland is my favorite album of all time for that exact reason. It helped me get through a rather depressive and dark mental block while writing my first album.
I didn't liken Disorder to homosexuality, that's just a long running joke on /mu/ and in general because of the way Curtis delivers that line.
That just comes off as a little pretentious, these are all themes which are quite basic but you're glorifying them and acting as if they're god's gift to earth.
Once again you're glorifying very basic lyrical themes. Plenty of people have written about stuff like that and outclassed Joy Division in every way.
If you honestly think you need to be a music critic to study songs, you're not very smart. Music critics are just talentless hacks who got themselves a website and a publisher. They're no more intelligent or superior than you or I.
Ok cool, it's about an epileptic seizure. Something a bit more interesting. So? That doesn't save the instrumentation and it definitely does not save the less-that-perfect vocal performances.
>>63869711
I responded with an equally intelligent response, just because you disagree doesn't mean you get to write it off as "shitting all over the band".
>>63869751
The bassline for Disorder is very standard for punk rock. There's not really much to say about it because there's not much unique...
>>63869751
>>63869800
... about it.
Yeah it sounds a bit douchey but it makes a point.
I totally agree. Only that the songwriting isn't very standout either. That's actually one of my main points throughout this, how standard and dull the songwriting is.
So just because they claim to make "pop music" they have the excuse to make their songs as simplistic and uninspired as possible? That's just bad damage control ain't it?
I don't really think that, I just think "Who actually had the audacity to take such undeveloped and basic ideas and put it on record, and how the hell does anyone find this interesting".
It's not very creative really, but then again this is just attempting to remember from memory which I can't because this album feels like one long song which has 11 breaks in between.
I just told you, my favorite band is Swans and my favorite album is Spiderland. I'm also a big fan of progressive rock, as my name evidences.
Plenty, plenty, plenty of normies listen to this band. I'm fine with someone liking them but saying they aren't normie friendly is plain delusion. They're essential Tumblrcore, for fuck's sake.
I'm not projecting, I wouldn't play any music while having sex, let alone a band I find so distasteful.
>>63869877
>>63869800
>>63869639
>>63869366
>>63869327
>>63869131
https://youtu.be/YgHNtzxO0y8
>>63869974
Here's your reply because you fell for the anonfag meme
>>63869800
You either don't know what you're talking about or you only listen to music with super complex basslines. If you're complaining about the bassline to Disorder and calling it "standard punk rock", then you have no sense of rhythm. Spiderland is great for what it is, but not everyone can be like Slint. Some people like structured music. What Slint did was very unique and powerful but it kind of happened on accident. Yes, there is nothing conventional about Spiderland, and to me that isn't entirely a good thing. The lyrics were added in last minute by one of the guys, as they explain in their documentary Breadcrumb Trail. I like the stories, but it sounds like adolescent angst to me. It's a band of four kids that had a lot of time on their hands and crafted some really goofy sounding jams out of absolutely nothing. Anyway, again - if the bassline to Disorder is too simple for you, you have to rule out so much great music out there, because it's more complex than a lot of great songs. You don't know what you're talking about.
>>63869877
alright you're obviously very young. Just listen to the album again before making more claims, it took me a while to get into as well. Swans' Filth is built off of very simple ideas with multiple instruments. a lot of Swans' stuff is very straightforward but also very layered. Black Out just strums on one chord twice and repeats. Honestly if you like Spiderland and albums like Filth and Cop then Unknown Pleasures belongs in your collection.
>>63870146
This guy knows what he's talking about
>>63869763
What gave it away?
>>63870175
The fucking trip fag
>>63870066
Even more ad hominem with baseless points and god awful statements.
Let the other anon do all the talking
>>63870146
I'm going to ignore the ad hominem in the beginning to address your points after it
I enjoy Filth and Cop an awful lot because they replace complexity with sheer brutality and anger. The raw rage is what makes it appeal to me. Unknown Pleasures doesn't actually have anything to make it appeal to me.
I doubt I ever want to listen to it again, attempting to make it through the whole thing is borderline torture
>>63870175
Wew lad, unironically filtering tripfags is cancer
>>63870294
jesus fucking christ dude give it a rest
you don't *like it*
that doesn't make it *bad*
it doesn't *appeal to you*
that doesn't mean it's *unappealing in general*
>>63870294
dude, stop throwing around buzzwords like ad hominem, you're a little bitch dude, <-- that's an ad hominem. And those first two quotes were me. I gave you legitimate points, and explained to you exactly why the album connects with me emotionally. There's obviously no way I'll change your mind. You just don't like the album, don't preach against it, because there are some people out there like me that actually love it and consider it a classic. And I love Swans and Slint, both of those bands are way fucking different from JD! Not even comparable! What POP music do you like, if any? If you don't like any kind of structured verse-chorus-verse songs then we've solved the problem here!
Also,
>I'm not projecting, I wouldn't play any music while having sex, let alone a band I find so distasteful.
Yeah you're probably pretty young.
>>63870294
I've been in this thread for one minute and now I'm leaving, but I just wanted to inform you that: I know more about music than you, and: you're an idiot.
>>63869449
I said the same thing he's just a cunt>>63870353
>>63870353
Did I ever state that my opinions were objective?
Once again the Joy Division fan proves he cannot read.
>>63870415
The post which I called ad hominem was very much made of personal insults towards me, very little of it was made up of points, and none of those points were even legitimate or relevant.
And why can't I? This site has emphasis on free speech, I can voice my opinions and justify them just as much as you can.
Of course they're different from JD, I only said that they were influenced by JD. Do all of you lot really have this awful reading comprehension?
So just because it's "pop music" it has the right to be as endless unentertaining as possible? As I stated earlier, what a fucking awful excuse. Is that really all you have to justify this awful group?
Yup, even more ad hominem.
>>63870471
If it helps you sleep at night then sure thing anon.
>>63870511
i'm not a fan of joy division
i just don't understand why you went into this thread with the intention of shitting all over peoples' opinions and the band
literally nothing good is going to come out of this for anybody
if literally all you have to say about them is "i think they're uninteresting and annoying" then i don't know why you came into this thread at all
and your language isn't exactly conducive to a good discussion
>>63870511
Look man, just list me some bands you like that make pop music and I can tear your argument apart easier. Because to me there is nothing boring about the album.
>>63870511
>>63870555
also, saying that they're an "awful" group isn't exactly a good way of phrasing a *subjective* opinion
no matter what your intentions, you have basically told people that they're not an interesting group in any way and people should have no reason to like them, and you have made a point of fighting people who disagree
>>63870511
Your are just going around in circles. We give you response and you continue to be an attention seeking whore and not accepting that people have different views and reasons they like JD
>>63870555
Simply because I wish to express my opinion, no matter how volatile it is.
Does that answer your question?
Also nice digits
>>63870563
To me Swans and Slint make pop music. Like you said, Filth and Cop are very straightfoward and simple.
And this has nothing to do with why Joy Division are good or appealing.
>>63870584
My subjective opinion is that they are awful and I'm willing to go out of my way to defend that opinion.
That is all
>>63870592
>your are
Really man?
I'm going around in circles because you lot are locking me in a loop
I'm not interested in said people's views, I'm interested in why their views are like that and how they react to said views being challenged.
>>63870632
of course you're going to get locked into a fucking loop
this whole series of posts boils down to:
"i like this"
"well i don't"
like that's all there is to this
nobody cares if you like or don't like joy division, you don't have to defend that opinion
'
go get a breath of fresh air
>>63867646
>people still falling for this
>>63870632
Annoying cunt is what you are
>>63870511
God damn you clearly have no fucking clue what you're talking about WHATSOEVER. The entire purpose (and distinction between punk rock and itself) of post-punk is that the music focuses on the atmosphere it's able to create, rather than the rage of its musical predecessor. Joy Division is SUPPOSED to sound dull and almost like walking-the-edge-of-life-and-death, which makes sense because Ian Curtis wanted to express himself appropriately. You're just too fucking dense and retarded and uneducated about music/the history of music and JD's context to be able to pick up on any of this.
Btw are you seriously 14? Just because you took a language arts class this year doesn't make you smart, and throwing the "ad hominem" shit around makes you just seem like a fucking toolbag. Why even reply to posts saying "you're a retard?" Clearly you have ego issues and you're a complete narcissist. Just seriously fuck off and do some self-evaluating, you desperately, desperately need it.
>>63870660
That's the problem see. The way you're looking at it it's just a war of opinions. I'm not interested in that and I've expressed so multiple times. I'm interested in why you guys think Joy Division is good. One anon bothered to put up a full essay and that was easily the best response in this whole thread. The others were either redundant points, irrelevant comments or ad hominem.
>>63870686
Hello ad hominem!
>>63870688
>JOY DIVISION IS SUPPOSED TO SOUND LIKE SHIT
If that's the case then they've achieved their goal to the maximum.
>>63870632
Well you're straight up wrong, objectively. Swans and Slint do not make pop music. There might be a few Swans songs that fit the bill, but I can't think of one.
We've come to a conclusion! This 15 year old multi instrumentalist virgin who doesn't know what defines pop music thinks Joy Division is terrible, because he is soo unique and needs to sport a tripcode on 4chan to let us plebs know!
>inb4 ad homeniem
>>63870688
>ITS SUPPOSED TO BE BAD
Joy Division fans out in full force tonight
>>63870737
Why bother making an inb4 if that's all your post is?
Either make a legitimate statement, or leave
>>63870729
why do you care why they think it's good?
and why are you so interested in disrespecting the band's fans and their opinions when things get heated?
if you had maintained anything even close to a level head then you would have gotten somewhere perhaps, but you come off as a fucking child and that's not helping you
i don't care if that's ad hominem
you're not fit to have this discussion because you aren't trying to advance it in any meaningful way
i like joy division and i will not read any of this thread or the posts after mine.
they are a good band.
>>63870729
And we do give you are opinions on them. You then proceed to shit on the band and say their garbage like your some superior fucking musical intellectual.
>>63870729 Christ people, this guy's just baiting us, except instead of being on YouTube it's on 4chan
>>63870757
I made a statement you fucking dwit. Pop music follows a verse-chorus-verse formula. Swans and Slint do not. Do you know what that means? You're wrong, they aren't bands that create pop songs. I'm saying that you're biased against pop music. Could I make it any more fucking clear to you?
>>63870779
Well that's your doing. Not mine. If you notice most of you have just been making pointless statements and not addressing any of my points.
If you want this discussion to move forward, cooperate with me
>>63870784
I shit on them because that's my opinion.
I don't want your opinions, I want the justification to your opinions. Is this really that hard to understand
>>63870785
>you can only bait on youtube
>he's never seen bait on /mu/
So, first day here huh?
>>63870789
But here's the issue: I don't care if it's "pop music" or not. I look at it without any classifications at all.
That's like saying that someone who doesn't know what gender is is sexist.
>>63870729
>>JOY DIVISION IS SUPPOSED TO SOUND LIKE SHIT
>If that's the case then they've achieved their goal to the maximum.
No. The musical atmosphere is fit to express a depressed man, and that in itself is very beautiful. None of the things you've mentioned even matter (complexity, etc.) Also, the fact that you think spiderland is simplistic shows very clearly that you don't have any clue about music theory.
>them time signature shifts
>them harmonix
>>63870855
HAHAHAHAH
HE THINKS SPIDERLAND IS COMPLEX
GOOD FUCKING GOD
Fun fact: the majority of the album is in 4/4
Fun fact: The rest of it is either in 7/4, 5/4, or the 12/8 15/8 switch that Slint use.
Fun fact: Guitar natural harmonics have nothing to do with theory
You're really dense, right from the first post you made yourself a laughing stock
>>63870838
again: why do you want to hear their justifications for their *opinions*
do you want to tell them that they shouldn't have those opinions?
do you want to challenge their justifications for their opinions?
all of the justifications thus far for either liking or disliking joy division have appeared completely subjective, as they should. what is there to discuss or challenge? it's going to go in a circle
and shitting on the band is not a good way to express your opinion. i get that you feel strongly about the band, but clearly some other people feel strongly as well, and to make damning statements about their likability as a band isn't a healthy way of making your opinion known
>>63870906
No. I want to see why they like something I don't.
You make a fair point in the final two paragraphs. In the end this thread is ultimately, in the bigger picture, futile.
>>63870964
i think it's fine to ask why they like something, but it should end there, yeah? this thread could have gone a lot better and maybe gotten back to its original topic (which was admittedly kinda boring to begin with)
>>63870964
You are fucking dense. Why should I justify my opinion when all you do is shit all over it? You are never going to agree me so why should I justify myself to someone who doesn't care.
>>63870838
Dude, if you're not trolling i seriously think that you're a narcissistic kid in high school who just recently entered that phase in music where you think you're too good for so many different groups and genres. I think I'm done with you, because Im really starting to think that you're trolling us. You constantly accuse other people of personally attacking you and giving no real rebuttals, yet you haven't made one valid point on why you think the band is bad other than they're "boring" or "terrible". I don't see how this could be fun for anyone, unless this little snippet of attention you're getting from this image board is somehow fulfilling to you. This is supposed to be a place to discuss things, learn about music, and generally have productive discussion. At first I thought you were for real, asking for peoples' legitimate opinion, so I wrote you that paragraph, but for every point I make, you refute like a stubborn child. Really, if you're baiting, kudos to you, because it just pains me to know that people this ignorant really exist, inhabit the same planet, breathe the same air as I do.
I asked you to list me some bands you like that make more traditional style music, to see what kind of bands you like in the same vein, yet you reply with a fucking airheaded response. You may be a multi instrumentalist but you know nothing about songwriting.
>>63870964
also "In the end this thread is ultimately, in the bigger picture, futile" is a hugely redundant sentence. not that it has anything to do with what happened here, but i thought it was worth pointing out
>>63870992
Fair enough, yeah
The original topic was pretty obvious bait, so going back to it would have resulted in a thread no better than this
>>63871004
You seem incredibly salty over the fact that you can't justify why you like Joy Division. Maybe it's best you just leave the thread
>>63868011
critics?
L M AOOO
why would you need critic approval to listen to ancient dadcore post-punk
you're literally fucking cuck with no self awareness lmao
>>63871026
No, I'll stay here and I don't need to justify why I like them
>>63868888
cut the birth cords
press send
YEAH, thick
>>63871026
thanks for hearing me out.
this whole thread shouldn't have happened
>>63871005
You haven't actually read the thread have you?
Of course this isn't fun, I'm basically not getting any reasons as to why you like Joy Division. What a waste of time.
>>63871024
How so?
>>63871046
Ohho, now that's what I call ad hominem
>>63871052
Then you may continue being an undesirable and dislikable person
>>63871085
I get you but apparently the rest don't
>>63871116
Fuck you faggot everyone who sees your name in this thread thinks you're an annoying little shit stain cunt
>>63871116
You haven't actually read my post, have you? I've been here the whole time. You've about stumped me, there's nothing more I can say to you if you're not gonna participate.
>>63871116
"in the end" and "ultimately" both have the same meaning in that context, and "in the bigger picture" is pretty similar to "in the end"
and again, calling the guy undesirable and unlikable is ad hominem and uncalled for
and please don't pull the "they did it first" card because that wouldn't reflect well on you and would just affirm the more combative participants' suspicions
>>63871151
Here's your reply
>>63871152
Your post is full of ridiculous personal insults, pretentious remarks, and really just circular arguing.
I've already told you, whether or not something is "pop music" does not concern me. You're trying to force open a door which doesn't exist.
>>63871168
It's just a statement, the phrasing may have redundant but the point still stands and it is anything but redundant.
He refused to participate, what more could I say?
Fair enough.
>>63871205
you just don't say anything
you can't spend a whole thread berating and arguing with the people who you consider to be participating poorly or not participating if you want the discussion to advance at all. just ignore them and move on.
and what i was saying with the redundant thing is that you look like you're trying to make your writing more complex than it really is when you make it excessively redundant. there's a point to repetition, but only if it's to reinforce a point
Proge mon, I've prided myself on not being one of these goons that talks about what tripfags he does and doesn't like because he actually pays enough attention to get a general idea of what these losers are like, but I like you. You seem like you actually know a lot, and you're not afraid to call bullshit on dumb sounding statements from people that want to act like they know a lot about music when really they just listen to huge volumes of mostly western pop, rock, etc. so thanks for not being a fucking idiot and having the balls to laugh in the faces of people that don't know what they're talking about. Keep on.
>>63871260
Fuck off, weeaboo
>>63871260
i'd like him if he wasn't arrogant and a little lacking in self-awareness
>>63871236
Indeed, this has been quite the waste of time.
I really wanted a proper discussion you know. Admittedly the way I went about attempting to create one wasn't the best but still, my intention was to discuss my and other's opinions on Joy Division and their two releases. Instead this has turned into a game of catching a spiked ball.
Yeah, I do that often. Especially in heated discussions. I tend to come off as pretentious because of that.
Oh well, what can you do
>>63871260
Thank you very much. It's nice to get a compliment after all this nonsense.
>>63871290
I doubt he'd come off as arrogant had the thread not kind of called for it
>>63871260
Put it back on, bud.
>>63871318
i'll agree that both sides were at fault here
but this type of discussion doesn't call for arrogance, if it stays within the bounds of what was originally asked
which it clearly didn't
>>63871323
Sorry but he honestly isn't me.
I'm completely surprised someone complimented me out of nowhere honestly.
>>63871342
That's fair. I'm happy to chalk it up to "well, it's /mu/," cause I've had my share of being goaded into being a dick by the internet, but I understand if you're not
>>63871205
It doesn't matter if it doesn't concern you. You said that the songs are too simple. That's really what your main point is. You also called the lyrics basic. Whatever the lyrics are, Ian Curtis poured his soul into them, in content and delivery. You already admitted you can hardly sit through the album, so I doubt you remember most of them. What people have written about the themes I discussed and outclassed Joy Division? I need examples.
Now if your only real complaint about the music is that it's too simple, then you are ruling out so many great bands that took influence from them, or had music that was equally or less complex.
You must not enjoy NMH, Guided By Voices, Interpol, The Strokes, The Jesus and Mary Chain, or any of the legions of bands that took influence from them. They're kind of like the framework for so many great styles of music to come. Without them I don't think you'd have Swans OR Slint.
>>63871373
i'm just sick of /mu/ being /mu/
i totally understand where you're coming from though. i just think that taking the time to talk to people is helpful sometimes, especially if they're gonna attach an identity to themselves and try to maintain that here
>>63866338
What are you doing listening to this when you could be listening to some Stereolab, Beach Boys, D'Angelo etc. all of which won't end in you commiting sudoku
>>63871384
It seems there's been a misunderstanding. My issue is not that they're too simple, if not I'd hate Swans too (Which, no matter how different you say they are, are also very simplistic). Rather, I just find it's not interesting. It doesn't have anything to keep me interested.
Fair enough, Curtis thought they were of a high enough quality to be put on tape. I respect that.
And yes, I actually can't really remember any of the songs other than Disorder, She's Lost Control and sometimes the awful moaning at the last track.
I can't think of any now, and I'm not in the mood to go digging. Why not we just ignore that point?
Huh, ironic, I actually love NMH a lot because of how emotionally raw and powerful it is. Jeff portrays a lot of energy and beauty through his surreal lyricism and incredibly powerful voice (both metaphorically and literally).
And like I said, I find it strange how I love bands which were influenced by Joy Division but hate Joy Division themselves.
>>63871481
Honestly I've thought this from your first response, and this post kind of validates it; I think you just don't like the vocals. It's kind of an NMH type deal, took me a while to get into, but you can't deny the raw emotion he puts into it. Hey, maybe they're just not your cup of tea, but I'm telling you -as someone who likes a few of the same bands you do- that they've changed my life.
>>63871577
That could be it, but at the same time I also find that if the vocalist was different I don't think my opinion would change. I rarely if ever actually really focus on the vocals, I usually look a lot at the instruments, and coming to think of it I may have missed something
Maybe I should give it another listen later. Maybe.
Honestly I got NMH on first listen. No clue how.
>>63871630
Was it ITAOTS? I could see the other albums or demos being accessible on first listen, but because of it's meme status back in 2010 it was the only one I knew existed. Again, I think the riffs and general feel of the album is interesting/creative, but that's just me. I usually look at the instruments before anything too. I guess I just like the sound of their instruments. Like you said, you can space out to drone music, so what's wrong with what they're playing, especially if you like the production?
>>63871712
Yeah, I managed to get into ITAOTS on first try. There was just something so infectious about the compositions and melodies, and the range of emotions was so massive and impressive.
I'm not quite sure now you mention it, which is why I should probably give Unknown Pleasures another chance after this.
now that something of a common ground had been reached between you two, i'd be pretty happy if this thread just died before some idiot comes in and sets it all ablaze again
i'm more than prepared for disappointment though
>>63868888
u dont deserve those quads
>>63871793
>>63871806
wew lad
get ready
>>63871806
>>63871826
i'm ready
>>63871746
Well, this ended a lot better than I thought it would. Thanks for toning it down there at the end and turning it into productive discussion. You don't have to like the album, just have an open mind. If it weren't for me likening it to a certain part of my life, I don't think I would've loved the album as much as I do now. So don't force it. I have nothing against you, proge mon. You seem like a decent guy now that the instigators are gone.
>>63871877
Yeah, the people just firing off insults really annoyed me and I got pretty aggressive back there.
Thanks for having a good conversation with me my good anon
>>63869639
>It lacks any energy, it feels sterile
thats kinda the point. the band wasnt shooting for enthusiastic and upbeat at all. if you have major depression and make music, thats obviously going to translate to your music. you really have to be in a certain mental state to really appreciate and relate to JD.
like, if i had friends, wasnt addicted to various drugs, and could easily leave my bed, Closer would be far from my favorite album (i know this threads about UP but this discussion turned more into a general jd one)
>>63871910
Fair enough, like I said I'm going to relisten to UP later so hopefully I might find something more redeeming about it
>>63867646
it's GUIDE.
god you're high.
>>63872504
thanks for reviving an already meaningless thread to reply to someone who, in all likelihood, won't even read your post
>>63867838
>good music is based on technical skill!
>>63872522
>i didn't read the full thread and I'm a retard
>>63872522
what >>63872551 he said
all the arguments have been played out and resolved, one way or another
fling your shit somewhere else
>>63868895
your a idiot
>>63866338
It could be just your subconsciousness man, sry. You think a lot about homosexuallity, right?
>>63872612
your a gay
>>63870632
>swans and slint make pop music
Faggot
>>63872659
>implying they don't
Ok
>>63872663
dude i hate to rehash this thread but just look up pop music on google or something it's an objective term. you'll see that slint and swans do not make pop music
>>63867646
nice bait
>>63866338
let's fuck then
Alright, I relistened to this thing
It's more like a 5/10 than the original 2/10 I gave it honestly. I think the initial backlash I had was from how insane the hype around the album was. But it's not awful.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1_ZHvpOd378
this is better
>>63867646
Also he mean guide not guy
have /mu/'s trips actually gotten worse? I don't remember them ever being this bad before.
>>63875629
It comes and go's. Right now we are definitely in a down cycle.
>>63873821
Spiderland is adolescent teenage angst bullshit.
>>63873821
You have to understand the context. When it was released in '79 noone had heard anything like that before. Atmospheric punk was a very new thing. Factory records was a new exciting label. You're listening to it with 30 years of it's influence behind it. It sounds dated, bleak and minimal. Personally I think it's a great album that ushered in a whole new decade of music. To write it off in 2016 is to ignore music history.
>>63875728
i think people are beginning to misconstrue "i don't like this" as "this is bad"
and by "beginning to" i mean they always fucking do, and i won't understand it for as long as i continue to post here
i don't see why you should factor influence into your scores unless you claim to have a way to quantify influence
>>63873821
How about you join a debating society, proge?
>>63867696
/mu/ itself is a tumor, desu senpai.
>>63867944
>>63867838
>I was that "metal" nerd guy at high school who was jealous of emos because they actually got laid and call them faggots anyway because my whole facade was to act like a tough, eventually after listening disturbed, slipknot and similar shit in MTV you moved to power metal, black metal and more "obscure" stuff until you heard Tool and unironically started to believe they were "Le cream de la cream" because the prog is so technical meme, now you are pretentious smug faggot which "friends" can't support and constantly shitpost with a trip in an Indonesian folk music electronic bulletin
What a sad life
>>63875683
>>63875728
>>63875769
>>63875832
>>63877370
>>63877681
STOP BUMPING THIS CANCER YOU FUCKING SHITS
On another note I listened to Closer, and holy fuck it's everything I wanted UP to be. That's an 8/10 from me.
Pack up the thread guys, I like Joy Division now
>>63877738
Kill yourself in an ineffective way so you suffer a lot before you die
>>63877780
Now That's What I Call Edgy!
I though it was pretty much assumed he killed himself cause he was gay.
I hate it when people say "it was good for it's time"
Well it isn't "it's time" is it you fucking tool.
>>63867672
No it doesn't.
But the sucking cock you do does.
>>63878478
I think you meant "But the cock sucking you do does"
>>63866338
>80's music
>surprised at homoerotic content
Joy Division is good. Of course not everyone is a fan. No homo
>>63878496
Yeah that does make it clearer.
Thanks!
>>63867023
You fucking leave Debbie alone. She's a nice lady.
>>63867689
Ayyyyyy
>>63866338
>listening to faggy hipster bands
>surprised by faggy lyrics
>>63867838
>*kick snare kick snare*
you're twisting the truth here
Ian Curtis was a closet homosexual.
>>63871260
You couldn't even attempt to disguise your writing style?
simply embarrassing
