i honestly can't decide if this is a noisy indie rock masterpiece or just a complete cringeworthy accidental one off trainwreck
i have never been this unsure of an album's quality, someone maybe provide some of their own insight and maybe that'll help me in my own decision
Like what you like, quit being a fucking pussy.
it's a 8/10 by scaruffi standards in the 2000s (very rare)
therefore it is a masterpiece
>>63812313
>noisy indie rock
dude, it's called "prog"
First off, why do you need social context to know if you enjoy something?
Second, stop using cringeworthy to describe music, much less serious music that has artistic merit and isn't just meme/trend shit.
Third, I'm not too big of a fan of anything of theirs aside from Deloused, but I'd say they knew exactly what they were doing and what they were going for. The album does a lot of things right and does a pretty decent job of mastering progressive and experimental themes into a pretty accessible sound. That takes more musicianship than almost anything else. The man who can satisfy all bases with music has truly made something magnificent.
My thoughts.
Omars guitar work is nuts at times it gets a little ozomatliish but otherwise its a great fucking album. Bands dont have a budget for projects like this anymore. And whats so great is it seems like it could go hardcore/screamo at any moment and theyre like fuck it lets try rhis out instead.
I think it's a cool album, but is ok if you don't
>>63812367
you fucking retarded pleb, i'm not looking for approval from 4ailchan /mu/tards, i'm looking for some different opinions because i'm not sure i actually like it i don't give a fuck if it's circlejerked over on this board
>>63812450
>social context
i don't, i'm literally just interested in hearing some different opinions on it, i'm not at all invested in board culture nor do i care, i've seen this discussed in passing and nothing more
>>63812450
Agreed. Deloused, is, has been, and always will be their magnum opus. I believe it to be head and shoulders above everything else they've done.
Deloused raised the bar so high, that no subsequent album could have matched the listeners expectations. However, if you listened to Frances the Mute first, I think you'd be able to appreciate it much more.
>>63812769
Deloused is on another level in terms of instrumentals as well as storytelling and lyricism
>>63812313
Its mediocre overproduced yet more-spastic-than-ELP-ever-was prog sang by what sounds like a "bisexual" 17-year-old scene kid.
>>63812822
WHO BROUGHT ME HERE
FORSAKEN DEPRAVED AND WROUGHT WITH FEAR
WHO TURNED IT OFFFFFF
THE LAST THING I REMEMBER NOW
I remember first listening to the album, being prepared to be disappointed with the ending and getting ready to wish the album ended with Interiatic ESP or something. Was very satisfied with I heard.
>>63812887
Yeah.........oh wait you're serious
Fuck you
>>63812313
It's good but messy album
>>63812887
kek
>>63812931
Face it. The Mars Volta doesn't come from the prog tradition and is only designed to appeal to 20-somethings who used to listen to asking alexandria in middle school while *attempting to ride a skateboard in skinny jeans through suburbia. The music is designed to appeal to people who feel that their former listeneing habits of screemo and hardcore are "cringey" and try to rectify that to themselves by listening to more "sophisticated" music.
>>63812715
>ask for opinion
>not looking for 4chan opinion
>on 4chan
>>63813085
Lmao this projection
>>63813218
Actually I wasn't a scene kid or post scene kid, I never skated, nor did I listen to screamo (I didn't listen to music at the time at all) though some of my friends were, that being said, most of their activities, skating and such, were something I never observed. Apparently I typed this all out in order to prove you wrong that I am not in fact projecting, kinda gay now that I think about it, though not as gay as The Mars Volta.
>>63813354
Dude, you should listen to Circle Takes the Square. That's some good fucking screamo.
>>63813354
You know, it's really simple to just not hate things you don't like. I imagine it'd be pretty unpleasant to purposefully make yourself upset by hating something, or even just going through this ordeal if you're just baiting. Is it like an ironic approach, where if you try to make a mockery of negativity so that you don't feel upset when true negativity and anger hit you? What's your catch?
>>63813404
I don't doubt that there is good screamo, its just that most people don't listen to it. Also, admittedly, its not my thing. That being said, Pink Floyd and radiohead aren't my things either, but at least I can tell that they have some semblance of cohesion and taste. For me, TMV combines the scene-sound and production values that I never cared for (opinion), with the lack of an attention span that ELP has (fact). The Mars Volta would be really good at making covers of famous compositions though, which I feel is the strong suite of ELP.
>>63813436
The only thing I "hate" is that TMV gets way more recognition than objectively better modern prog outfits. I don't care for or listen to Tigran Hamyasan, but at least I can tell his work is superior in composition than TMV's. Don't construe my use of the word "composition" as me being pretentious either, I'm simply referring to the way those respective artists write.
>>63813085
Thats retarded. The Mars Volta has so many elements of classic Prog, as well as groups like Led Zeppelin and Santana. The band themselves have cited multiple classic prog bands as well as Jazz artists. It's like the method behind Progressive Rock in the 70s but applied to the Rock music that had been made since Prog died out. This is especially true on the punk side of things. You know your music criticisms are utter shit when they involve not only the audience of the music, but an audience that you seem to have made up in your head.
>>63812313
>noisy indie rock
Wut
>>63812887
why so many inane buzzwords?
>>63814318
Because he's dumb and feels like his opinion is worth a shit beyond him just not liking it.
>>63814206
You're wrong. The only thing "proggy" about The Mars Volta is the length of their songs and their individual musicianship. They rarely if ever progress any sort of theme whatsoever, for fucks sake, at least ELP did that, even if it was surrounded by instrumental and melodic wankery. If TMV switched to a simpler more mainstream writing style (verse-chorus) they'd be much more popular, and better for it (just ask Steve Vai). TMV can write melodies but they sure as hell can't stick them together. On top of that they had to pick a retarded aesthetic.
>>63814318
Maybe because I criticized the band with one whole line of text??? Not that your ironic jab isn't an overused convention in everydat friendly rhetorical conversation, let alone on 4chan.
>>63814410
also, I am convinced the average TMV fan's penis size is under 4 inches erect.
>>63814344
Modern prog is a pretentious joke, get over it loser.
>>63814410
>The only thing "proggy" about The Mars Volta is the length of their sings and their individual musicianship
Oh, so they don't have a large Jazz influence, multi-sectioned songs, and odd time signatures? Because they do and those are pretty huge qualifiers for prog. Just look at Cassandra Gemini for undeniable proof of their prog sensibilities. That song features multiple instances of smooth progressions of a theme. Also, whether the band is a true prog band or not (they are) doesn't matter. They never called themselves prog and all that really matters is whether you like it or not. You dont, thats cool. But I do, why do you care?
>>63814445
7 inches erect and I love them ;)
>>63814493
You seem to really care about image over music. Makes you pretty stupid desu and also makes you really seem like a compensating loser
how do you guys feel about the "mariachi slipknot" meme that gets passed around sometimes?
>>63814318
>uses the word inane
>uses the word buzzword
>complains about other people using buzzwords
lets not get carried away, the singer does sound like a whiney faggot, their production is pretty clean and he did compare them to a band thats usually revered
>>63814610
Inane isnt a buzzword, it's just a word
>>63812313
It's a mess, but it's a beautiful, glorious mess.
>>63812313
the fact it has this strong of a reaction in you is novel and speaks of the album's quality in itself (if not "quality" then some other form of value)
>>63814610
all i was saying was he was using words like bisexual and scene (similarly to the way you say "whiney faggot") in particular just because they have negative connotation in most social situations. I'm not trying to incite anything, but I'm just pointing out the the presumptuous nature of such terms that actually are by no means inherent insults. sorry if i was incorrectly presenting my thoughts (probably like i am right now), but whatever. enjoy what you have to enjoy
>>63814535
Jazz influence? The only thing jazzy about it is the retarded melodies that sound like tryhard improv, even though its supposedly well thought out sequences. "Multisectioned songs" is covered in the "long" part, not that it has anything to do with the prog tradition if each part sounds COMPLETELY DIFFERENT. Odd time signatures? Now that you bring it up, if they didn't spend so much time trying to sound sophisticated, maybe they would actually sound like they know how to write a song. They should have practiced some 4/4 before they moved on to the more complicated time signatures, kek. Profanation by Leonard Bernstein is a good example of progressing a theme through odd timme signatures, using odd time signatures AS your theme does NOT make you a good band. Why do I care if they are prog? Because that is the calling card for many of its fans to legitimize their own tastes. For some reason people think prog means "better." I dont care if they can progress a theme or not, if they can write a good song or good album who cares. Unfortunately, TMV tries very hard and gets very little.
>why do you care?
Its the topic the the thread you dip, bearing in mind, im not OP.
>>63814579
>>63814579
its stupid and only makes sense on the most basic and cosmetic level
>>63814796
Ehh, well I DID say he sounds like a whiney faggot because I mean it. I'm guessing
>>63814318
thinks the singer's voice is a repulsive as i do lol, the vocals aren't terribly accessible, which is a decent complaint in my book.
>>63814629
That same reasoning applies to >>63814318
aswell you twirp.
>>63812313
what the fuck are you talking about
>>63814814
We get it, you don't like prog rock.
>stop liking what i don't like
>>63814814
>the only thing jazzy about it is the retarded melodies that sound like tryhard improv
Are you just saying random things that sound like they make sense? Specifically, the songs Take The Veil Cerpin Taxt and Goliath feature very fusiony playing.
>"multisectioned songs" is covered in the "long" part
So? Does not invalidate my argument
>if each part sounds COMPLETELY DIFFERENT
irrelevant. But, in many cases, if one section in their songs sounds different from another section, it transitioned to get there
>using odd time signatures AS your theme
Thats just retarded, I dont even know what you're trying to get at here.
It seems like you really do not know what youre talking about, but you certainly seem hell bent on trying to seem like you do.
>>63815035
My favorite album is Close to the Edge by Yes, my 2nd favorite album is ITCOTCK, my third favorite is Larks Tongue in Aspic. Clearly you didn't read my post.
>>63813085
Jesus christ the projection. Of course they don't come from the ELP or Genesis tradition - that's the shit side of prog. But listen to King Crimson or VDGG and tell me the Mars Volta isn't right at home in that genre.
Also, criticizing music based on your perception of its audience is retarded.
>this thread
/mu/ is incapable of discussing TMV
>>63812887
>sang by what sounds like a "bisexual" 17-year-old scene kid.
okay but the effeminate-ness and theatricality make up a lot of cedric's appeal
>still being salty towards scene kids
what's the point
>>63814161
>he thinks recognition means the band is bad or good and because one band gets more means it's bad
Lay off the amphetamines, kid. Your paragraphs are literally layered in shit
>>63815065
For one, I'm not saying tmv has never displayed elements of jazz, I'm saying they don't do it very well overall
"mulisectioned songs" doesn't invalidate anything I said either, so whats your point?
Sorry I didn't extrapolate my position sonny boy, but by "each part sounds COMPLETELY DIFFERENT" I meant that they don't have any unifying force that makes their music recognizable or catchy or GOOD (ie repetition, meaningful contrast, cogent variation, etc.)
Odd time signatures sound syncopated naturally, no extra writing or thought required. You can write pretty much anything over 4 bars of a additive meter and it will sound like its from some ridiculous Schoenberg piece or something. Somehting I'll admit that Tigran Hamyasan is guilty of, despite me using him as an example earlier
>>63815112
The Mars Volta is more like ELP than King Crimson, thats what I was saying all along. Also, Genesis has at least 4 albums better than anything TMV has made.
>>63815112
>>63815230
Also, good on you for focusing on only one part of what I've had to say. Clearly my statement was a swipe at scene kids, not a humurous way to say that TMV's music sounds shallow and forced.
>>63815262
>I can't fight an actual argument so I'm going to resort to and ad homnem attack and a generic statement about "paragraphs"
>>63815364
>so whats your point?
that multisectional songs are a big element of prog and that it invalidates your point that The Mars Volta arent prog.
>don't have any unifying force
what they do often in their compositions is go off into sections that sound different from previous sections and then go back to an earlier part of the song to tie it up in a cohesive way (see Cassandra Gemini, Take The Veil Cerpin Taxt, and Cygnus... Vismund Cygnus). Sure they have times when they do sections that dont tie into the previous sections, but there are smooth transitions into those sections. Also, whether they it is to your liking or not, it is still multi sectional song writing and that is still a quality of prog.
As for the odd time signature thing, you didn't really address my earlier confusion. But anyway, how easy it is to write in an odd time signature has no relevance and whether or not you think that their use of odd time signatures is in good taste or not doesn't matter. All im saying is that odd time signatures are an element of prog. We're not debating quality, just whether theyre prog or not.
>>63815393
>The Mars Volta
>In the Van der graaff tradition
I could see MAYBE the KC comparison because of KC's bipolar sound but VDGG is like the complete opposite of marz volta
>>63815466
Criticizing a band for a fanbase you made up in your head is shallow and forced.
>>63815551
"Prog" refers to taking a theme (for example a short melody like the "fate" theme) and progressing it: Changing its speed, modulating it, inverting it melodically or harmonically, etc. Most prog acts (thought not all that are called prog by critics) do this in some form or another. The best examples would probably be 1. Yes, 2. Genesis, 3. KC 4. ELP. That being said, I add ELP begrudgingly (because they wank too much) and Yes hesitantly (because they sometimes abandoned themes altogether). Additionally KC sometimes tried to challenge this format. TMV MAY have multi sectioned songs, but they rarely stick to a theme, or if they do, its practically unrecognizable (Romantic composers were guilty of this as well, namely Wagner).
This wasn't what I was trying to say earlier about odd time signatures but ill say it now: as it pertains to the word progressive? It doens't at all, though it is true that progressive acts used them extensively.
>>63815736
I think we have very different definitions of progressive rock. Im not really in the mood to debate this anymore. Its clear that neither of us are going to be swayed. You dont like The Mars Volta and I do, lets just end it there.
>>63815592
I wasn't criticising the fanbase you retard, I was criticizing the music. Thats what I said in the first place, and thats what I've said ever since. Just because I mentioned that fan base in a negative context doesn't mean that was my argument. As I just said, it actually wasn't. In any case the only part I referred to was his voice, so your argument hasn't gotten any less shallow.
>>63815794
Really? Because all of your initial criticisms involved some correlation you saw between people you dont like and the music of The Mars Volta. Dont even pretend you were making genuine music criticisms because you fucking werent, idiot.
>>63815789
Look kiddo, thats what "progressive" means. Thats it, there is no interpretation of that word, it is the literal musical definition and thats how its typically applied to that 70s scene and its later offshoots. But whatever, I'll just leave now, since you've revealed you have no ability to look at music objectively ;)
>>63815834
People I dont like? I literally said that some of my freidns were scene kids. If you can't recognize the scene-aesthetic in much of TMV's music and you can't recognize that it isn't necessarily fun to listen to then just stop. ONCE again you are COMPLETELY ignoring my other criticism which other people in this thread *who seem to like TMV* are acknowledging that at the very least I stated them. Its like you literally gave up on defending your shit taste XD
ITT:
>YOUR A DUMB FAGGOT!!
>NO YOUR A BIG STUPID IDIOT WITH YOUR IDIOTNESS
>IM SO MUCH SMARTER THAN IM LIKE SUPER SMART
>SHUT UP
>hey do you want to play donkey kong 64 after school my mom ungrounded me
now just add more synonyms and thesaurus.com cross-references.
I like it
>>63815938
My dog has cancer and my teeth are fucking killing me from major dental work I had done, I am not in the mood for this anymore so will no longer be entertaining your stupidity.
