![Retrato_de_Handel[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/rv7tbnz.jpg "Retrato_de_Handel[1].jpg")
It was never resolved, what's the best recording of the Messiah? What're you all up to this fine easter?
>inb4 how do I into classical?
https://mega.co.nz/#F!mMYGhBgY!Ee_a6DJvLJRGej-9GBqi0A
https://mega.co.nz/#F!lIh3GRpY!piUs-QdhZACFt2hGtX39Rw
https://mega.co.nz/#F!Y8pXlJ7L!RzSeyGemu6QdvYzlfKs67w
https://mega.co.nz/#F!kMpkFSzL!diCUavpSn9B-pr-MfKnKdA
https://mega.nz/#F!ekBFiCLD!spgz8Ij5G0SRH2JjXpnjLg
https://mega.co.nz/#F!4EVlnJrB!PRjPFC0vB2UT1vrBHAlHlw
https://mega.co.nz/#F!ygImCRjS!1C9L77tCcZGQRF6UVXa-dA
https://mega.co.nz/#F!il5yBShJ!WPT0v8GwCAFdOaTYOLDA1g
https://mega.co.nz/#F!DdJWUBBK!BeGdGaiAqdLy9SBZjCHjCw
http://crudblud.sjm.so/
Can someone rec something for a newbie
Speaking of mass, what are some good recordings of masses and divine liturgies?
Most of what I've got are shitty compilations with only fractions taken out of context. I'm thinking of geeking out on liturgical music. I know Tchaikovsky and Bach are good, what others are there?
I am looking for more music like Camille Saint-Saëns Symphonie No 3, I really like how it seems to tell a story, and the finale is just amazing. Does this type of music have a name, or can you recommend something similar?
Thanks in advance!
Is it wrong if you've never listened to any of the entry-level artists any genre wise but are listening to newer stuff and something people would consider either "more complex" or "avant-garde"?
For example, I never listened to Mozart, Brahms, Tchaikovsky, Mahler, the list goes on... but I listen to Morton Feldman, Karlheinz Stockhausen, Horatiu Radulescu, Igor Stravinsky, etc.
Am I missing out? Or is it good to skip all the entry-level things because they're outdated and simple compared to newer artists?
I need cello music. The more melancholic and wailing, the better.
>>63617356
Strauss's alpensymphonie
>>63617369
enjoy jews shitting in your ear holes
>>63617718
http://youtu.be/acKCGhtKlaI
>>63617718
Rachmaninoff Vocalise.
>>63617369
Wrong? No. But weird? Yes. It seems extremely pretentious. There are certainly admirable qualities to avant-garde music, but it seems strange to listen to them without any of their predecessors. A lot of their stuff is more a though/theory exercise than anything you're meant to listen to.
But then again, so was the well tempered klavier.
Are these downloads mostly flac?
>>63617369
I bet you like /mu/core and think you're so special.
>>63619208
Yes
I've gathered a small mass of classical CDs by visiting the local thrift; I got some great shit from there and it's all cheap since it's not RnB or Classic Rock, so I get a great deal for a good price. It's also helped me try out composers I'd have probably never heard before because I'd just grab any composition or composer I'd never heard before.
It's fun.
>>63617369
Learn to appreciate more traditional forms and it will refine your taste of avant garde. Debussy's Jeux should be a good starting point.
>>63619260
more heavily melodic composers like faure?
>>63619495
ravel, brahms.
>>63619495
>>63619592
GOAT imo ---> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2tB2SLLnPZg
What are the most beautiful symphonies you've ever heard? I'm in the mood to listen to something mindblowing, heart-wrenching, perfect, so give me your best shot.
>>63619711
Mozart Jupiter symphony?
>>63619756
Heard it, already love it.
>>63619711
Brahms 3
Prokofiev 7
Shostakovich 5
Mahler 4 or 6
Beethoven 7 or 9
Dvorak 9
Mozart Jupiter.
Berlioz's fantastique
All of them are fantastic. But there are so many more.
Reminder that even a robot knows that german music is sub-par.
>>63620754
Tfw only robots would like french and russian music
Today I listened to some Piano Concertos by Thaikovsky, does anyone have some download links? From any of them (there arent any on the mega links)
Also, where do I start with Italian composers? Romanticism or Renaissence
>>63621170
https://archive.org/
All right you fucks we post masterrace´
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QA0LP6_ODAQ
>>63621628
You first
>>63617369
https://rbt.asia/mu/?task=search&ghost=&search_text=For+example%2C+I+never+listened+to+Mozart%2C+Brahms%2C+Tchaikovsky%2C+Mahler%2C+the+list+goes+on
Stale b8
is petrushka good easter music bros
>>63617369
I'm the same way, but
>Or is it good to skip all the entry-level things because they're outdated and simple compared to newer artists?
Noooooooooo. That's wrong.
>>63617718
Ligeti - Sonata for Solo Cello - 1st movement
Faure - Elegie
>>63619711
Rautavaara - 8
Erkin - 1
Such an intimidating amount of music, can someone provide a more compact collection of fantastic pieces?
>>63623042
The 100 Most Essential Pieces of Classical Music is a decent starter point. It basically has famous specific movements. Then you can branch out and google what you like from it.
>>63617369
Bach is the epitome, the apex of Western art music.
>>63617718
Disregard Rachman. Pay attention to Enescu and Ligeti. Kodaly's Op 8 is also one to look for (preferably played by Koranyi or Starker, or maybe Ormezowski, they're the only ones who I feel like could approximate what Kodaly was going for).
Also Shostakovich's cello concertos are p good
>>63617718
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TnD61eIWD6c
>>63617356
Schumann's Fourth and Mahler's Second also follow the "major to minor" narrative.
>>63623199
>Bach
>implying his output or technique can ever unrival the eternally underrated one
>>63623199
baroque a shit desu
>>63624002
>>63624171
Baroque is inferior on the whole, but Bach had a lot of Romantic ideas in him tbqhwyf. You can't listen to his fugues or the Passions and tell me that shit isn't goat
I'm not looking to start a war or offend people, but can someone explain why the following claim is untrue?
>Classical music was limited in the type of sounds it could produce because it could only make use of the instruments available to it at the time, and computers had not been invented
I remember there was one guy in these threads who used to adamantly deny that classical music (in any era) was ever limited in any way by the instruments available to it, but I literally do not remember his counterargument.
>>63615770
hey guys. I've never gotten into classical, but I'm thinking about going to see Bach Collegium Japan perform Mass in B Minor next week. Would you guys recommend them?
>>63624711
Yes. They perform that piece the best. You should go. : )
>>63620754
Tbh senpai Bizet looks fine as fuck in that picture and borodin is top tier Slav qt
>>63624711
Do it. They're great.
>>63620754
>implying the qtest composer isn't German
>>63620754
Its over Germany is finished
>>63624342
but you are right anon
>>63624342
Classical music ranges from von Bingen to Stockhausen.
Elgar.
>>63624823
>you will never transform from a dashing young man into a qt adorable as fuck old man
Just like his French counterpart Faure
>>63624860
Sure, but let's say for the sake of argument I'm not including modern music in the set of music that is "limited by toolset".
Wouldn't it be true that modern music inherently has more potential than any era before it? I mean, we can debate whether it has been realized or not yet, but it seems hard to deny that composers in the past had unsolvable limits.
>>63624917
no because it's not the instruments which are the important part and quite frankly even if it was then nobody is doing anything new at all with their instruments today that they weren't doing before electricity.
>>63624948
Really? Wouldn't the invention of the drumkit alone be an example of something that completely sets even contemporary genres such as rock apart from any era before it?
>>63624983
you think drums didn't exist before some chuckle-fuck stuck a few together?
>>63624917
I suppose that depends what you mean.
Maybe we can use computers now but we don't have castrati anymore. I don't want to end up delving into timbre memery because those discussions are always awful.
>>63615859
Read the op
>>63625033
Drums, of course.
The drumkit? Clearly not.
>>63625036
But isn't the fact that computers can replicate any and all timbres one of the main reasons that this era has such promise compared to the ones before it?
>>63624342
instruments can do literally anything though. the only limit is your imagination. Acoustic instruments can create far more varied sounds than electronic instruments.
Computers just make composing really easy, back in the days you had to write something that sounded good, without hearing computer playback, so arguably if took much more skill.
>>63624917
it has more potential, but the only ones using that potential are modern composers.
popular music never does anything interesting, regardless of period. Trained composers actually know what they're doing, and regardless of instruments will make something interesting, and perhaps even timeless.
Could you rec me any chamber music without strings (piano etc. included)?
19th century-ish stuff especially welcome.
>>63625652
>instruments can do literally anything though. the only limit is your imagination.
Well that's a complete exaggeration.
Even if you wanna argue that a computer can't reproduce an acoustic instrument well enough, it more than compensates with the sheer variety of sounds it can make.
Heck, even an electric guitar has some ridiculous potential with the various effects you can run it through.
>>63617046
peste noire has a grainy recording of a french mass at the end of one of their songs.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uLSUQYzqXZ0
>>63617046
New Chart!
can anyone recommend me any solo piano. im really into Nachreich, richard anthony jay, rob costlow, philip wesley. idc if any of these guys are memes or pleb or whatever, would love some more stuff like this.
>>63628211
Your autism is impressive. Well done.
>>63628321
It's amazing what you can do by chaining together imagemagick commands.
>>63627260
you'd be surprised at the variety a trained composer can get out of acoustic instruments.
As for effects: who needs them?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_aY6TxC1ojA
No electronics involved, and yet it sounds like a synth with delay and reverb.
Besides, composers have been using electronics in combination with acoustic instruments since the 60s and 70s. Its nothing new or unusual.
This is a piece for cello and electronics from the 70s:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rW2b4ByT8dM
Its the combination of a real instrument and electronics that makes for the most variety, instead of arguing that one or the other has "the most variety" its when you combine them both that you get something interesting. Something computer producers tend to miss out on. There's something very unique about a real performer playing a real instrument in a real acoustic space.
Computers can't replicate the variety and subtleties of a real performer playing an instrument.
Look at this, I bet you never though a cello could make any of these sounds:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y7Gzrake8nI
>>63617046
PALESTRINA
A
L
E
S
T
R
I
N
A
Also Victoria, Taverner, Faryfax, Tallis, Lassus, Gesualdo.
>>63628211
"Start with the Belgians"
t. isis
>tfw you realise the tenor in Ockeghem's Mi-mi mass sings a single continuous melody for the entire movement of 58 bars
>>63624889
>implying Ravel isn't the french top qt, manly composer
>>63624342
Technically true if you're disregarding contemporary / post-modern classical music, but the range of effects and timbre you get with instruments is immense.
Technically speaking an electronic musician may have "access" to a wider breadth of sounds, but they -like classical music- only utilize a conventional set that fits their music. Overall I would say that composers use more variety on average depending on the period and genre of music.
But then I think the main draw is structure/form rather than orchestration.
>>63632470
Orchestration is part of structure and form.
Best recordings of Mozart's solo piano music?
>>63633124
Staier & Richter.
>>63633124
Edwin Fischer, Mieczyslaw Horszowski, Friedrich Gulda, Clara Haskil, Andreas Staier, Artur Schnabel, Lili Kraus, Kristian Bezuidenhout.
>>63633107
form is the same as structure. both describe how a piece is constructed musically
Orchestration is separate. It describes how the music is set to the instruments. Take composers like Ravel. They write a piece at the piano, thats where they use form/structure. And then they take the piece through orchestration and make it into a piece for orchestra.
Its unusual to have orchestration as part of form. "this low C on a bassoon doubled with a high C in the oboe, with shimmering strings in the background and ppp triangle tremolo" isn't really an examination of form in music.
The only one I can think of that really uses orchestration as an integral part of form is Wagner.
>>63633188
That's a terribly naive view. Even when writing at the piano, a skilled composer will inevitably a) plan and conceive textures beyond what is possible on the piano b) design pitch/rhythmic material that fits certain instruments.
Orchestration greatly influences which lines are perceived as structural, Schenkerian analysis - arguably the most sophisticated way of analyzing tonal form - inevitably has to take orchestration into account as an inextricable aspect of form. Consider, for example, Schenker's inclusion of instrumentation in his Eroica graphs.
Finally, the role of the tutti and ritornello are absolutely central to how the 18th century conceived form (just read Koch), and like I stated before, the demands of tutti vs. solo instrumentation inevitably have to influence the pitch and rhythmic choices a composer makes.
>>63633188
>The only one I can think of that really uses orchestration as an integral part of form is Wagner.
How?
>>63633258
solo vs tutti isn't really an aspect of orchestration, its an aspect of dynamics. everyone plays together, its very loud, now the solo line plays their solo. of course its structural but you can have all that without touching orchestration. pitch and rhythm aren't really formal elements. I'm talking about large scale things like sonata form. you dont usually include orchestration information, nor pitch not rhythm in a diagram of your sonata form layout. You include keys, section labels, thats about it.
Orchestration is more a way of accentuating your form, rather than an integral element of the musics construction.
>exposition of Mozart's C major string quintet: 151 bars
>exposition of Beethoven's Eroica symphony: 149 bars
>>63633528
>solo vs tutti isn't really an aspect of orchestration, its an aspect of dynamics.
Actually, yes it is.
>pitch and rhythm aren't really formal elements. I'm talking about large scale things like sonata form. you dont usually include orchestration information, nor pitch not rhythm in a diagram of your sonata form layout. You include keys, section labels, thats about it.
You do realize that "section labels" are large-scale rhythm and "keys" are pitch relations, yes? And yes, tutti - with their particular textures, i.e. unisono melody against a sustained harmony, do project keys and rhythm in particular ways that are absolutely relevant to how one perceives the form of a piece. Many leading theorists (Cook, Webster, Hepokoski, Darcy) thus DO include instrumentation.
>Orchestration is more a way of accentuating your form, rather than an integral element of the musics construction.
Of course it is an integral element of the music's construction. Stop thinking of all music as solo piano music (which is still influenced by instrumentation all the time!).
Sang in a performance of the Easter Oratorio in the Thomaskirche on Sunday. Incredible experience.
Also chatted with Emma Kirkby for a few hours about how great the Franco-Flemish school was, so that was cool.
>>63633184
Hey SDF. Still living it up in burgerland?
>>63633771
Nah, got back from Princeton on Thursday.
Gonna be a tough decision. :(
>>63633790
Well, best of luck to ya.
What've you been listening to recently?
>>63633807
Right now I'm listening to Bezuidenhout in K331's first movement.
>>63633820
How're are you liking it? Been memeing Mozart's sonatas on here a bit recently.
>>63624342
The symphony orchestra; strings, woodwinds, brass and percussion can replicate any sound to some degree. Everything you would find in a synthesizer (i.e. wavecycles, """LFO""", portamento, etc.) is found in there in some form.
>>63628211
>>63628756
Thanks. Makes me wish I was Catholic!
>>63634192
Why the fuck would you wish for that?
>>63634275
Granted, modern-day Churches rarely if ever put on something like this, and most modern Catholics are too uncultured and lukewarm to actually appreciate it.
>>63634373
I still don't get what religion has to do with any of this.
>>63634442
I'm exploring the hypothesis that you can know a tree by the fruit it bears.
Certain trees grow music, certain trees grow bombs.
Does this even approach Der Ring des Nibelungen? It certainly feels almost as daunting (with all three movies, I mean)
Going to my first concert in a few months, what should I be wearing?
>>63635312
The only thing the two have in common in some story elements, really.
>>63635917
The median between what you feel comfortable in physically and what you feel comfortable being seen in.
>>63634646
>Certain trees grow music, certain trees grow bombs.
There's a thing called IRA, fyi.
>>63635917
clothes
>>63636593
>There's a thing called IRA, fyi.
I'm not sure nationalist insurgency is a mainly Catholic past-time, but sure. Spanish and Lebanese Falangists come to mind, as do the Croatioan Ustaše. But these kinds of movements come and go, regardless of the religion, so I'm not sure about their significance.
>>63635917
hunting camouflage suit
>>63635917
A condom.
>>63635917
Black suit with a white shirt and vest underneath. A big double-breasted overcoat with a scarf.
>>63635917
It's customary to wear your finest animal skins
>tfw Wagner had a neckbeard
>>63636922
It's not like individualist terrorism is a transhistorical constant in societies where Islam predominates. It seems positively benign compared to what Catholic and Protestant-dominated societies did throughout the 20th century.
>>63637479
>tfw Wagner got more pussy than I'll ever get
>>63637703
Antisemitism is pretty much fear of the modern superman.
>>63635917
Wear whatever you want.
Don't contribute to the culture of snobbery surrounding classical music, you're under absolutely no obligation to wear a suit or dress shirt.
As long as you're hygienic and wearing fresh clothes you're fine by me. Whatever you'd wear to any other concert imo.
>>63633584
Ochestration and Form are two different disciplines.
While orchestration can be a footnote to the study of form at high level (Its still not an integral part like themes, keys, subjects, expositions, etc.), form is not a part of the study of orchestration.
Orchestration concerns itself with the capabilities of instruments, selections of timbre, chord spacing and doublings, and the qualities of instruments at different registers. Surely you should know that.
They dont teach you how to write sonata form in an orchestration book, the same way they dont teach you the range and qualities of an oboe in a book on form.
>>63620754
who's the guy left to Tchaikovsky?
>>63619711
The second movement of Tchaikovsky's 1st Symphony is literally the most beautiful art music I've ever heard.
>>63641268
thank you for your contribution
>>63639512
orchestration is definitely an integral part of form. as SDF stated earlier >>63633258, solo vs. tutti is an important formal distinction as well as an orchestrational one. certain themes are inexplicably tied to the instruments that play them. the timbral and tonal capabilities of an instrument are a part of its theme. if one theme is played on an A clarinet and another theme is played on B flat clarinet by the same player, that is both an orchestrational and formal thematic decision. for example, the first theme could be in A major and more suitable to the A clarinet's range and expression while the second theme is a contrasting key more suitable for the B flat clarinet. this is where the two disciplines overlap and are inextricably linked with each other.
>>63619350
Yeah Amoeba has used classical vinyl for an average of 1 dollar. now I have too much lel
ok guys name someone shittier than vivaldi
>>63641831
Rachmaninoff
Schnittke
Stockhausen
