Is this actually a good album or is it all like "Nah fuck this shit it's not a real Sabbath record."
Its among the best in their discography desu.
>>63429999
Quads confirm
little of both honestly.
It really is good
It's great. Mob Rules is also good.
>>63429982
It's an amazing album, although it really sounds nothing like classic Sabbath.
It's more like the best thing Dio ever did, and Dio did some good stuff
"We had some of the material that would become H&H down by the spring of '79, but Ozzy just couldn't seem to wrap his head around it."
-- Tony Iommi
Sabbath were basically finished by the disco era and had about gotten everything they could out of Ozzy. Iommi and Butler wanted to update their sound for NWOBM and compose more epic songs like H&H title track, but Ozzy just wasn't the guy for that and they needed a more powerful vocalist.
>>63429982
it's not genre-inventing, but it's good
ozzy era is pretty bad imo
Dio and Tony Martin era is GOAT
It's fun, like everything else Dio's involved in
>>63430558
that's just pure contrarianism
>>63429982
BS started to turn radio friendly after Vol.4, so the ladder
>>63429982
Dio Sabbath is a better band than Ozzy Sabbath. But Ozzy Sabbath had more good songs than Dio Sabbath.
>>63430580
its my fucking opinion
ozzy is a shitty singer with terrible range
go listen to headless cross and tell me who is better
>>63430159
Nah, Long Live Rock 'n' Roll is a better album than H&H
Blackmore > Iommi
>>63430558
Headless Cross and Tyr are really good. Tony Martin's a sensational singer who never really gets his dues, sadly.
>>63430641
But OG Sabbath is so good because of the fucking HEAVINESS of Iommi and the jazzy but tight rhythm section
>>63430656
its really a shame. he had a little bit of dio in his voice. plebs who think s/t to sabotage are the only albums they've made really rustle my jimmies
Born Again is the worst of the worst.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jBi7XvJKlMo
This isn't Sabbath, it's generic shitty hair metal.
Dio era > Ozzy era
>>63430728
tell me this isn't heavy
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QgsN0mKi8gg
>>63429982
It's great but it's much more like a Dio record than a Sabbath record
>>63430815
I'm not saying it's not heavy, I meant that Ozzy's voice is not the main attraction of original Sabbath
>>63430766
He always sounded like Dio crossed with Coverdale to my ears.
Have you heard any of the bootlegs from the Cozy Powell's Hammer tour in 93? It's really cool hearing Martin tackle Sabbath, Rainbow and Whitesnake songs in the same gig. He later went on record saying that they were the most vocally exhausting shows he ever did.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=evnRT_mSHaQ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9bz5c2CabBo
>>63430784
>goes after for Sabbath for apparently sounding like hair metal
>picks Born Again over Seventh Star
m8, Gillan's in crazy good form on that whole album and it was nice to actually have Sabbath taking themselves seriously. Shame the tour completely shredded his voice.
Plus the production's terrible on that album, but it has some of Iommi's absolute best riffs.
>>63430641
>Oz is a shitty singer
>>63430921
Not have Sabbath taking themselves seriously, rather.
The title track is quite haunting and far more powerful than anything from the Ozzy era.
>>63430875
im just fucking with you. The old stuff is classic, and I'm not really hating on ozzy but it gets kinda old. I saw them like a month ago and ozzy actually sang really well.
>>63430921
Havn't heard those, but thanks for posting I'll check them out
>>63430921
>m8, Gillan's in crazy good form on that whole album and it was nice to actually have Sabbath taking themselves seriously. Shame the tour completely shredded his voice.
Considering that he had to also perform the back catalog which included songs designed around Ozzy and Dio's vocal ranges, not a shock.
>>63430991
>im just fucking with you. The old stuff is classic, and I'm not really hating on ozzy but it gets kinda old. I saw them like a month ago and ozzy actually sang really well.
Since they're going to be retiring from touring, glad you saw them while you still could. Iommi is the big weakness by now since he's had cancer and his hands are pretty chewed up from over 45 years of playing.
>>63430997
Oh nah, but I mean he actually went on that tour while he was recovering from a vocal cord tear. His doctor told him to take a year off and not sing at all for fear of damaging his voice permanently, so what does he do? Disbands Gillan, but then gets bored not long after, joins Sabbath, puts on maybe one of the most OTT performances of his career and then tours on the fucking album. His voice never recovered from that, it's why he got so much more nasally after Born Again.
>>63431047
Nah man, Ozzy's the weak link these days.
Iommi's planning on re-issuing the IRS-era albums (Which have been out of print for years), and then he's going to record some new music with Tony Martin.
>>63430611
How to say nothing with extra words, the post.
>>63430815
The verses sound like Soundgarden. The rest of the instrumentals sound like material Queensryche threw away.
>>63431047
He did get hand surgery though, in fact from the same doctor who treated Eddie Van Halen. As I understand, his cancer is the main reason he doesn't have the stamina for touring anymore. Also he has back issues which makes it hard for him to stand while playing.
>>63430997
Ozzy-era songs aren't any challenge to sing though because his voice is so limited. Heck, I can sing Iron Man and War Pigs almost perfectly. Dio's stuff is beyond my abilities.
>>63429982
Still haven't even listened to this album, how different is it from classic sabbath?
>>63431318
Some of the Ozzy stuff can he challenging for singers with generally quite high voices. Ray Gillen and Rob Halford, who were both capable of doing great on the Dio stuff, were often left floundering with the original stuff. That's partly why Tony Martin was such a great acquisition on Iommi's part, he could do the Ozzy stuff AND the Dio stuff completely comfortably.
Gillan completely tore up the Ozzy-era catalogue though, it's the Dio-era and his throat injury that gave him trouble.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0IWVOVrUjUQ
>>63431400
I have a relatively mid-range voice and I'm weak at high registers. I crack up and sound sputtery if I try that shit.
>>63431098
I think most people have completely forgotten the IRS era even exists.
Metallica songs I also don't have a problem with. Hetfield's voice is easy for me to do.
Bill Ward didn't think it was anyway. He quit halfway through the 1980 tour due to alcohol trouble and complaining about the direction Dio was taking the band.
>>63431807
That stuff was pretty popular in Europe and Japan (And still is), but Martin-era Sabbath was always largely irrelevant in the States. That said, they were actually on their way to getting back on their feet in the States with the Iommi/Martin/Powell/Murray/Nicholls line-up, but then Iommi wanted the quick money and tore up any progress that line-up was making to run back to Dio for Dehumanizer. Which as we know, lasted for all of ten minutes when Iommi started grovelling at $haron's feet with that Costa Mesa thing.
I love Iommi, but as soon as he takes his guitar off, his spine goes with it.
>>63431269
That interview Iommi and EVH gave a few years ago was pretty funny.
Tony: After you've been in the business as long as we have, you learn to put up with all the crap. Like any time you want to play something from your new CD, the audience gets up to use the bathroom.
Eddie: I remember how when the third Van Halen album came out, they complained it didn't sound like the first two. But then if it sounded like the first two, they'd just complain we were stagnating and not developing as a band.
Tony: So you can't win no matter what you do.
>>63432162
>That stuff was pretty popular in Europe and Japan (And still is), but Martin-era Sabbath was always largely irrelevant in the States
We're talking late 80s-early 90s when thrash metal ruled and anything associated with the 70s was passe. Slow, corny, bluesy, and old-fashioned compared to Slayer and Venom.
Dio era Sabbath is just as good as the Ozzy stuff imo.
>>63432379
Plus despite attempting to with Feels Good to Me, there's no way in hell they were good looking enough to reinvent themselves for mainstream success like Whitesnake or Alice Cooper managed to do.
>>63432503
The MTV era was pretty hard on artists who weren't blessed with movie star looks.
Or as Dio said, "The event of music videos was hard on us, especially us older guys who came up in the pre-video era. We were forced to do something we completely opposed in order to compete. It became more of a Bon Jovi world and less of a Led Zeppelin world."
>>63432503
Hey, if Aerosmith could come back and reinvent themselves for MTV with a frontman that looks like a post-op transvestite...
"I'm pretty thankful for MTV. In the pre-video days, I would have had to tour my ass off for years to get noticed."
-- Dave Coverdale
It's too bad Bill Ward couldn't be bothered to come back for Thirteen.
Dio fucking sucks.
>>63432817
It's funny how Dio's line-ups started getting gradually younger and better looking as the '80s went on.
Honestly, I think that had Sabbath managed to hold on to Ray Gillen and Eric Singer, Iommi's could've had crossover success. Instead we got middle-aged Brits in Tony Martin and Cozy Powell, who were superior musicians, but didn't have half the market appeal.
>>63432860
Fair point, though obviously Aerosmith were the exception rather than the norm (And a testament to Desmond Child's songwriting).
>>63433600
Dio was already in his 40s at that time so having some dudes in their 20s helped balance him out a bit also this could be why Judas Priest hired Scott Travis rather than one of their 70s peers.
>>63433681
Of course, likewise with a late 30s Coverdale phasing out his peers like Neil Murray and Aynsley Dunbar in favor of younger guys like Rudy Sarzo and Adrian Vandenberg.
I could also cite the old jazz musicians like Art Blakey who kept an entourage of young guys around them at all times to stay "with it".
Yah Aerosmith were an exception especially since they were fixed lineup and didn't have youth on their side. They did have good songwriters working with them but also the fact that they'd almost completely disappeared from the radar in the early 80s meant that people weren't burned out on them.
>>63433864
>>63433738
>>63433681
>>63433600
Well, yeah but the young dudes probably also kept them more abreast of current music developments. Judas Priest didn't seriously try to modernize their sound until ST joined.
Reminds me of the failure of the Rolling Stones to say relevant during the Reagan years. The Stones were not that old yet in the 80s (they didn't hit 50 until Clinton was president) but they never seriously bothered working with dudes in their 20s and so increasingly looked like Grandpa Simpson as the decade wore on.
Neil Young sure figured that one out by hooking up with Pearl Jam.
>>63429982
1.- Masters of Reality
2.- Paranoid
3.- Black Sabbath
4.- Heaven and Hell
5.- Sabbath Bloody Sabbath
6.- Sabotage
7.- 4
The rest doesn't matter.
>>63434433
Remember when Metallica headlined Glastonbury '14? This was after the Stones hosted in 2013 and apparently Mick Jagger said "I think they'd be a good act for the show. I saw them performing recently and was impressed."
Considering that Jagger had before 2013 never apparently seen or heard of what had been one of the biggest bands on the planet in the early 90s, it makes one wonder just how many decades it's been since he last kept up with current music.
>>63433560
Get off of /mu/, $haron.
>>63430949
>far more powerful than anything from the Ozzy era.
Nah, there are tons of Ozzy era songs that are superior.
You'd wonder with all the established rock veterans hiring younger help, it's a little strange that Van Halen would go the opposite route with the older Sammy Hagar who, while a very good vocalist, was boring af live and wasn't really going to make 12 year old girls wet themselves.
>>63435899
With Love Walks In and When It's Love etc., they wanted the parents of the girls who were listening to Bon Jovi.
Hagar Van Halen was just the Foo Fighters of the late 80s-early 90s. Watered down shit listened to by corporate execs while doing aerobics.
>>63436923
I mean, Top Of The World sounds like it belongs in a car commercial.
>>63429982
i tend to appreciate it in a "it's a fantastic dio album that just happens to be under the black sabbath label"
it should be considered in a light completely separate from their main discography (dehumanizer and mob rules, as well)
r u going?
>>63437406
>>63431047
They haven't ruled out the possibility of still doing one-off gigs at a festival sometime, but they say they're done as a touring and recording act. Ozzy had said (paraphrasing) "I'm almost 70. There's no point to keep going on and getting steadily worse and worse for another fucking sack full of cash."
Too bad nobody ever told the Rolling Stones that.
>>63437555
Ozzy didn't say though that he was retiring from his solo career which has a revolving lineup of younger musicians. Sabbath are old and fixed lineup.
>>63437406
>>63437555
>>63431047
speaking of the end tour, what do you guys think about the bill ward issue? i can't tell if he's actually physically unfit to make it or not
>>63437646
No and as someone else said, Iommi still has plans to record stuff with Tony Martin.
>>63437675
Bill Ward couldn't even play on Thirteen in a nice comfy studio setting, let alone handle the rigors of touring. He lost his ability to play at least 20 years ago. Especially because the classic Sabbath songs are very percussion-heavy and he doesn't have it in him anymore to perform them.
Great album, listen to it OP, you won't be disappointed.
>>63435899
Sammy has aged a fuckton better than DLR though and the more grown-up songs he did with Van Halen are still doable while a 60 year old Roth singing about boning his hot high school teacher doesn't really work.
>>63437840
To be fair in that regard, a lot of Hagar's stuff sounds pretty fucking cringe-y coming from an overweight man pushing 70.
That said, unlike a lot of his contemporaries, Hagar's voice has aged quite well.
Children of the Sea has to be one of the worst songs in Sabbath's entire catalog.
>>63430784
>that video
The 1980s aka the decade that taste forgot.
>>63437840
The Devil You Know was a little interesting because the lyrics are darker than Dio's usual standards. The album does have a bit of a grimdark "We're getting old and we can see the end approaching." feel to it.
>>63438153
And they were even better going into the '90s.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3xyQBxy5glE
Iommi spinning during the guitar solo always cracks me up.
>>63430784
That's not hair metal, this is hair metal.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d2XdmyBtCRQ
>>63438734
Strip clubs are so outdated now in the age of Internet camwhores.
>>63438734
As I said...
The 1980s aka the decade that taste forgot.
I will say though that Motley Crue's videos were a lot more professionally produced. >>63430784 looks like it was shot with a home video camera.
Dio still fucking sucks.
>>63433681
RHCP...eh, even they replace Frusciante with a guy who was born when Anthony and Flea were in high school.
>>63435899
>>63435977
Hagar is still peddling shitty dadrock CDs with his Chickenfoot project which is a bunch of Metallica contemporaries and him playing retro-80s style jams.
>>63439391
Chickenfoot don't really even do much anymore; Hagar's current band is him, Mike Anthony (Who else?), Jason Bonham and the guitarist from Sound Barrier.
>>63430949
I do like the sparse, "live" production on it.
Dio era Sabbath is worth one's while imho.
>>63430784
It doesn't sound like hair metal so much as a really, really obvious and poorly disguised Iron Maiden impersonation. Come on, if you can't hear Ian trying to sound like Bruce Dickinson in there. Even the chord progressions in Trashed are almost the same as The Number Of The Beast.
>>63438734
>actually go in strip club
>it's nothing but white trash single moms with tats and surgical scars
You lied to me, Nikki Sixx.
>>63429999
any faggot that ends their sentence with "desu" automatically voids their opinion...specially when talking about Sabbath
>>63440313
Oh, there's IRL strip clubs that look like the ones in the video, but they're all the clubs in Los Angeles that celebrities hang out in while you the average fag has to visit trash holes that smell like pee and the strippers are totally gross white trash and niggresses.
>>63438734
Damn, you never see white artists do this anymore. Only rappers still do the "girls who have legs and know how to use them" bit.
>>63435977
>With Love Walks In and When It's Love etc., they wanted the parents of the girls who were listening to Bon Jovi.
I'm a little skeptical that Van Hagar were necessarily targeting 40 year old housewives because they still had edgy album titles like F.U.C.K. and OU812 was a popular bathroom wall slogan back then, something 80s teenagers would have probably been familiar with.
>>63434433
The Stones were still trying to stay up to date at least through Undercover. After that, they broke up for a few years and did solo gigs that went nowhere, then when they reunited in 88, Jagger just decided he was going to milk the nostalgia train for the rest of his life.
>>63440352
hello newfriend, welcome to /mu/'s word filter
>>63440553
Well, my cousin said he remembered the Stones' 88 tour and he was all like "Wow, these guys are like 46. Holy shit they're ancient." which is slightly funny since now the average age of big-name rock stars is about 48.
>>63440640
That's what happens when nobody born after the 70s plays rock-and-roll.
Trashed is the token commercial track from Born Again. The rest of the album is MUCH less commercial.
>>63440965
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eDzLk9SshYM
Hell yeah, this is heavy af even over 30 years later.
Ozzy called BA the best record they made without him.
>>63441127
a riff so good guns and roses ripped it off and made a huge hit out of it
>>63441204
Also Lars Ulrich said it was one of Sabbath's top 5 best records. Quite a few compliments from some of metal's giants considering like the other poster said, 90% of people only know about 1970-73 Sabbath.
Most of the Seventh Star demos Iommi recorded with Jeff Fenholt before he went off to become a televangelist are pretty forgettable, but there's some gold there. Just like Blackmore, Iommi had a great knack for finding really good singers.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hBJXVdR1lpU
>>63441204
This was also the last album that Bill Ward played on. The drumming isn't as impressive as their early 70s stuff though, but I guess the louder groove metal sound on Born Again doesn't really work with the jazzy drumming Ward did in 70-73.
>>63441322
I wouldn't call Ozzy a "great" singer, although it may more be that Ozzy is the genius at finding good guitarists (Iommi, Rhoads, Wylde, Buckethead, etc).
>>63441350
Well, post-Ozzy, who did Iommi work with? You had established names like RJD, Ian Gillan, Jeff Fenholt, Glenn Hughes and Rob Halford, as well as pretty much discovering and taking a chance on Ray Gillen and Tony Martin. Sure, there's been a few dodgy ones along the way like David Donato and Ron Keel, but that's a pretty sensational track record in regards to finding good vocalists to work with, I'd say.
>>63441350
>Buckethead
>good guitarist
Ah ha ha ha ha. Get out.
>>63441350
They were just a bunch of 20 year old kids when they started Sabbath in 1969. Probably as Iommi got older and more experienced as a musician, he developed a better sense of what makes a good vocalist.
>>63430784
yeah this is why i've never listened to any post-ozzy sabbath.
you can keep it
>>63440352
no baka senpai desu
That is my favorite Sabbath record.
>>63441781
Surprised how much the old gits can still light it up.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tN3kQ9E2WP8
>>63430784
It's a very very cheesy vid and half of it is just clips of the band performing live.
>>63442468
>cheesy
You haven't seen anything yet.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nLtJo30OGeM
The bass player wasn't even a member of the band, but they didn't have anyone at that stage and couldn't find anyone to to fill in on the day of the shoot. Iommi and Nicholls had to literally stand in the streets and ask the first dude who had a suitable look if he wanted to be in it.
>>63442468
Like the other guy said, the Motley Crue Girls, Girls, Girls video is a slick, professional product compared to Trashed, but MC by 1987 were rock stars with plenty of money to get high quality music videos produced.
Also a lot of older bands from the 70s never quite mastered the video format (that Dio complained about) while MC except Mick Mars were young guys who came up in the same decade as MTV.
>>63442616
Eh, I like the Sabbath vid better anyway because I'm a neckbeardy guy and metal is more up my alley than some jock jam like GGG.
Dio Sabbath > Ozzy Sabbath
