Thoughts on Frank Zappa /mu/
>musical genius
or
>some goober who made early comedy rock
dude needs to lift
ITT: non-musicians insisting that their opinions are valid
he attracted some of the worlds most talented musicians to get on his train, not possible as goob
>>63213820
He was at least a great artist in his early years, and then had a really weak career from the mid 70s onward. He somehow managed to make cheesy music and be really self important.
He was pretty interesting to watch during all of the PRMC stuff.
But like, listen to the Mothers first three records and also Hot Rats and you're probably good.
>>63213848
In that post: a guy with badly cut long hair and a funny nose who sounds like Mandark from Dexters Laboratory
Tell us about the black page, fucklips
some of his later compositional stuff have actually got a lot of acclaim too, ive never listened but a lot of people i respect have spoken highly of it
he was an extremely talented musician, but he had some questionable taste--not only in comedy, but musically too
>>63213944
This, but I also find he was a bit too full of himself from time to time.
>>63213904
get a load of this pleb. i think you should check out the grand wazoo and overnite sensation
obviously incredibly influential in that basically all modern (good) progressive rock comes directly from him
he put out like 7 masterpieces in the span of four years too
it's pretty clear that most complaints about him come from his cheesy late 70s and 80s shlock but his 60s material is where it's at
>>63213834
tbqh, all the shit with the mothers and with the record companies would've gone much smoother if Frank was buff
>>63213820
a poor mans weird Al
>>63213904
Get a load of this pleb: I think you should check out Apostrophe or Zoot Allures.
>>63214001
dont forget Uncle Meat and Weasels!
>>63214059
>being so hopelessly wrong
>>63214001
I haven't heard The Grand Wazoo. Overnite Sensation is pretty good. That's where I started. I bought it thinking it was Apostrophe, which is also pretty good.
>>63213820
>early comedy rock
?
>>63214104
track 2 on the grand wazoo is pacha.jpg
>>63214097
>>63214079
I think Zoot Allures is Zappa not trying very hard. Apostrophe is good, but has kind of a weak second half.
Weasels is about half great. I remember downloading Uncle Meat but can't remember anything about it?
>>63213904
Overnite Sensation and Apostrophe are two solid albums. Sleep Dirt and Studio Tan.
It's his 80s work that got weird when he discovered the Synclavier. But even then some songs like Night School off Jazz from Hell is a solid track.
>>63214059
Yup. Your trip says it all.
>>63213904
But '69-'71 Mothers is the best
>>63214206
>>63214172
Jesus fucking christ you guys
How about we just agree to tell this guy to stay away from Joes Garage
OBJECTIVE ZAPPA POWER RANKINGS
Hot Rats > We're Only in It For The Money > Grand Wazoo > Weasels Ripped My Flesh > Studio Tan > Waka Jawaka > Absolutely Free > Freak Out > The Man From Utopia > Sleep Dirt > Yellow Shark > Uncle Meat > Zappa In NY > Joe's Garage > 200 Motels > Sheik Yourbouti > Roxy & Elsewhere > Apostrophe > Overnight Sensation > Orchestral Favorites > Dance Me This > Just Another Band From LA > Burnt Weenie Sandwich > Make a Jazz Noise Here > The Best Band You Never Heard in Your Life > Ship Arriving Too Late to Save a Drowning Witch > Filmore East June 1971 > Shut Up n Play Yer Guitar > Lumpy Gravy > Meets The Mothers of Prevention > Broadway The Hard Way > Tinsel Town Rebellion > Bongo Fury > Chunga's Revenge > Civilization Phase III > Them or Us > Jazz From Hell > You Are What You is > Guitar > One Size Fits All > Zoot Allures > Cruising With Ruben and The Jets > Thing-Fish
>>63214297
Some of that album is amazing.
That's just the highlight of Frank, is that every few albums he's channeling a different sound.
That disco sound on Ship Arriving Too Late to Save a Drowning Witch is kind of rad.
>>63214297
But Joes Garage is fantastic. I think all of his music evolutions are good, to be frank.
>>63214317
terrible terrible terrible terrible terrible terrible terrible taste senpai holy shit
>We're Only In It For the Money better than Weasels, Absolutely Free, Burnt Weenie
jesus fucking christ
>>63214317
>Uncle Meat not first
>Lumpy Gravy that low
>thinking that Hot Rats is his best fusion album over Waka / Jawaka
You fucked up
>>63214379
>>We're Only In It For the Money better than Weasels, Absolutely Free, Burnt Weenie
Correct,
>>63214390
>>Uncle Meat not first
>>Lumpy Gravy that low
>>thinking that Hot Rats is his best fusion album over Waka / Jawaka
Correct.
Any other CLT opinions you want to parrot?
>>63214317
Are you fucking kidding me with Absolutely Free being anything but first or second
>>63214317
>Thing-Fish dead last.
Fuck you, it's brilliant, and hilarious.
>>63214167
>Weasels is about half great.
u shud listen to it twice as many times as you already have. WRMF is one that rly grew on me over time but it is kinda weird at first due to the layout of the tracks and the variety of the music but in time u will understand and love it
>I remember downloading Uncle Meat but can't remember anything about it?
interesting I recall the same thing happening to me at first.. same thing just listen more
>>63214317
ayo hol up
>>63214457
Absolutely Meh
>>63214462
>>>/pol/
>>63214431
What the hell is clt?
I dont think I like /mu/ they are mean about everything I like. Its only music!
>>63214502
Nice try ya Lil stinkbug
>>63214317
This is the kind of guy that never gets tired of Peaches En Regalia
>>63214487
>le /pol/ meme
I bet you take Zappa seriously, you pleb.
>>63214317
nice terrible taste
I guess I didn't know how many Zappa cockriders were on here. They must hang out in the gear threads.
Uncle Meat, Civ Phaze III, and Grand Wazoo are his best.
>>63213848
b-but that's every thread on /mu/
>>63214488
Spotted the new guy
>>63214488
Cock Lips Technica
Frank Zappa never put out a bad album.
>>63215579
I agree with this, but I know why people think of him as cheese rock. A lot of people I know who are really into more niche genres like to write him off as being off as too wanky or taking himself seriously, but I think he somehow managed to find a perfect middle ground between taking himself too serious and not taking himself seriously at all. And I don't think it's comedy rock, I think his whole point is that comedy has a place in music.
Anyways, no one will ever agree on what Zappa's best stuff is. I love Weasles and Joe's Garage and Sheik a lot.
I like most of his stuff a lot, but I'm not really a fan of him as a person. His jokes could be funny, sometimes just like, whatever. I can ignore his bad jokes and his bad music easily though, since most of this material is cool.
>>63214553
who would get tired of Peaches En Regalia? That song rules.
>>63214582
But I never said what I liked.
>>63214576
>Zappa is not serious music
You might be in the wrong thread
>>>/kpop/
>>63214025
>obviously incredibly influential
Understatement of the year. Frank Zappa:
>Introduced Jimi Hendrix to the wah pedal backstage at a Mothers of Invention show
>Paul McCartney said Sgt. Peppers was the Beatles' attempt to remake Freak Out!
>A direct musical influence on musicians as diverse as Phish, Throbbing Gristle, John Zorn, and Merzbow
Behind Stravinsky and Cage he probably did more to influence music than any other single musician in the 20th century.
>>63217775
>>Paul McCartney said Sgt. Peppers was the Beatles' attempt to remake Freak Out!
You mean Pet Sounds.
>>63214317
Joe's Garage is underrated as fuck and I will defend it to my last breath, I hope something really unpleasant happens to you and it takes a long time for you and your loved ones to recover.
>>63218655
>>63218655
>I hope something really unpleasant happens to you and it takes a long time for you and your loved ones to recover.
People who are psychedelically ill will often defend garbage till their dying breath.
>>63218718
>psychedelically ill
>>63217817
No, McCartney said Sgt. Peppers was The Beatles trying to make their own Freak Out!
>>63219604
[citation needed]
>>63214104
the grand wazoo is pretty much a jazz rock orchestra playing mostly instrumentals. its better than hot rats imo
>>63214317
i hate how you losers always think cruising with ruben and the jets is one of his worst albums.
>>63219825
>I hate how people think bad music is bad!
Nice.
>>63219854
>not being able to appreciate good do-wop
>>63219900
>good
>do-wop
Pick one.
>>63214317
But Civ Phaze III is by far his best album
>>63219963
More like Civilization Phase Zzz
>>63219635
not that anon but googled it:
>According to David Fricke, the album was a major influence on The Beatles' Sgt. Pepper's Lonely Hearts Club Band.[31] Paul McCartney regarded Sgt. Pepper's Lonely Hearts Club Band as The Beatles' Freak Out!
Is right on the wikipedia page, sourced and everything.
>>63219635
cite dis deeick
>>63219635
It's literally on his wikipedia page.
> Paul McCartney regarded Sgt. Pepper's Lonely Hearts Club Band as the Beatles' Freak Out!,[247]
McCartney was quoted in a book from 1994.
>>63220038
>>63220030
Not a quote from McCartney.
Try again?
>>63219952
lol pleb, just get off /mu/
>>63220064
It's a quote from his book my man
>>63214097
>>63214177
>taking the bait
>fronting on Weird Al
>>63214317
>forgetting Does Humor Belong In Music?
>>63220109
(not true btw)
>>63220145
>>forgetting Does Humor Belong In Music?
It doesn't really count.
>>63220148
Funny, because I'm looking at the book preview on Amazon and that exact quote is on page 282, clear as day.
>>63220277
[citation needed]
>>63220017
nice meme but its probably just 2good4u
>>63220442
How so?
he's the best
he's a sexy man
>>63220478
Its definitely his most mature, has easily his most extravagant arrangements, is his life's work to the point he died, has an atmosphere that feels completely unique, and is a million miles further ahead of any synclavier albums in production quality.
I really just like how it sounds and the songs themselves too.
Amnerkia is the best modern song.
>>63220541
>Its definitely his most mature
How so?
>has easily his most extravagant arrangements
How so?
>is his life's work to the point he died
Except for the three other works he had created
>has an atmosphere that feels completely unique,
Except for the several other synclaver albums
>and is a million miles further ahead of any synclavier albums in production quality
How so?
>I really just like
Not relevant
>>63213904
>But like, listen to the Mothers first three records and also Hot Rats and you're probably good
You're not if you like progressive music. Every single Mothers of Invention album is good (imo their last 3 albums are actually the best), and most of his 70s output is strong. I know what you mean - from the 70s onward the cheesy comedy/parody stuff begins to take over and lead to a more accessible sound - but even late 70s albums like Sleep Dirt, Studio Tan, etc. have their fair share of progressive/experimental interest.
>>63214206
This
>>63214317
>Uncle Meat not #1
>Burnt Weenie Sandwich well below Apostrophe and Joe's Garage
>One Size Fits All 4th from last
God status just for his version stairway to heaven cover
>>63220863
you know what i mean
>>63220847
>>Uncle Meat not #1
Oh does excessive filler earn something a #1 spot?
>>Burnt Weenie Sandwich well below Apostrophe and Joe's Garage
A lack of legitimate compositions tend to do that
>One Size Fits All 4th from last
More like One Size Shits All if you know what I mean.
>>63220084
>Thinks he has the right to denote plebs when defending Ruben & the Jets
It's a decent album, but nowhere near as patrician as any of the other original Mothers of Invention albums
>>63220587
Its his most mature because it holds its theme throughout
>has his most extravagant arrangements
Just listen to it. It puts his orchestral works to shame
>except for the other tree
Civ Phaze III was being made for decades with an attempt to be his magnum opus, its incomparable
>several other synclavier
link pls. Never have I heard a synclavier album sound anywhere near this
>Million Miles further ahead
It really is, He used the largest soundbank of its time to make it, dwarfing the other ones anyone has ever used. Giving it many different arrangements. It feels real at times, which is something that has evaded synclavier albums since the start of the movement.
>>63219900
>Reuben and the Jets
>good doo-wop
more like the only doo-wop you've heard
>>63220302
how mad are you right now?
Roxy by Proxy is criminally underrated. If you're a fan of Roxy & Elsewhere, you owe it to yourself to check it out.
>>63220302
MacDonald, Iain (1994). Revolution in the Head: The Beatles' Records and the Sixties, p. 171.
>>63220907
>Its his most mature because it holds its theme throughout
Many of his albums do, so this point is not relevant
>Just listen to it
Not a valid retort. Answer the question.
>Civ Phaze III was being made for decades
Oh he had a synclaver in the 70s?
>Never have I heard a synclavier album sound anywhere near this
How many have you heard? name at least 35.
>>63220946
Not a citation. Try again.
>>63220959
I gave that a listen. Pretty good.
>tfw you'll never be at a Zappa live show when he was at his best
he was the greatest composer of the 20th century
>>63220973
>70s
Over a decade of pure working on it I should have said. But it was conceived and partially written back in the 60s.
>name at least 35.
This has to be bait. Probably a little bit less than that. But I've listened to a lot.
>>63221059
>Over a decade
Nice backpedaling
>Probably a little bit less than that
Name them. I'll let you get by with 33.
I COULDA SWORE HER HAIR WAS MADE OF RAAAAYOOOOOOOON
>>63220887
>Not realizing the rightful place of the trvest Zappa album
Uncle Meat most accurately captures the essence of the original Mothers of Invention (the best band he ever had) circa 67-70 (the best era of said band)
>A lack of legitimate compositions tend to do that
Legitimate shlegitimate, it all comes down to the organization of sounds (definition of music), and it's far more adventurous and interesting than those albums plen. That's right, I called you plen. You're not even worthy of correct spelling.
to me he had a lot of talent but i dont like it. but he is really talented
>>63221141
>ncle Meat most accurately captures the essence of the original Mothers of Invention
How?
>organization of sounds
Chart it out and demonstrate it's superior
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JpIFkZsaovU
This is his best song. People say Zappa's music isn't emotional, but I disagree, this once. Something about this song in particular resonates with me.
Actually, while I'm at i,t, Zappa had plenty of "emotional" songs.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vq4C9D57q_g
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qmu1ZF6HleE
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A4c8xLZXUVg
Maybe it's a parody of a certain type of cheesiness. The motherfucker was good at (faking) melodrama is what I'm saying.
>>63221192
He's parroting Scaruffi, don't listen to him.
>>63221028
Let's not go nuts, the 20th century had some monster composers. Frank would probably be the first to deny that title.
>>63221192
It is the most varied and comprehensive culmination of every style they ever performed, both live and in the studio. That, along with all the spoken bits, offer the clearest insight into his band at their peak. Aside from the composition and arrangements and instrumental performances being next level, it really appeals to the history buff in me because it is almost like the perfect historical document of the band at that time - given all the raw and uncut details that it leaves intact. That is the most explanation I'm gonna give without a good hour to formulate my thoughts, any more and I'd just be repeating myself so you can stop your attempts to rustle my jimmies now.
>>63221424
No I'm asking your actual opinions, not the parroting of Scruffy.
Try again.
I think he was a great artist, but he seemed to think he was the only one, and if you didn't always like it, you just didn't understand it. I can see why many people didn't like that. Some of his music was excellent, and some of it is just whatever. That tends to happen when you release over sixty albums and write enough for forty more. Sometimes his lousy sense of humor almost spoils some of his best work, but it's usually not too bad.
Basically, he was amazing, but he wasn't perfect.
Frank Zappa is usually regarded as one of the most difficult and unusual artists in all of rock. That assessment is certainly true – the artist boasts a host of records that take many listens to become accustomed to. Zappa's works are certainly atmospheric, but they are also convoluted, bizarre, pretentious, and totally unrewarding. Indeed, he certainly can be seen as an ambitious failure. It’s probable that he was just being willfully perverse. Nevertheless, Zappa's records sound to modern ears to be rather silly mistakes from an artist whose ambitions got the better of him.
>>63221529
>he certainly can be seen as an ambitious failure
How so?
Has anyone else here read The Real Frank Zappa Book? If so, what did you think of it?
Bottom line: You really have to enter Zappa's world with the understanding that you're entering HIS world. As far as he was concerned, he was NOT a part of the music world that already existed. He created a new place for himself - where disgusting sexual innuendo could rest comfortably alongside mindbogglingly difficult melodic changes; where triple-albums full of nothing but guitar solos are as prevalent as impossible-to-follow electronic compositions; where lousy bootleg recordings are reclaimed and issued as official product; and most importantly, where he could do and say whatever he wanted, no matter how stupid, sexist, tedious, noisy, corny or, on occasion, genius. Sometimes his vision failed him, but much more often it helped bring incredible new music into the world. You just have to be willing to open your mind to a new kind of musical outlook and approach - one that envelopes rigid song construction, completely loose improvisation, assdumb jokes and stone-faced instrumental composition, sometimes all at the same exact moment. If you are unable or unwilling to reconcile your traditional ideas about what constitutes "good music" and an "easily-navigable catalog," you probably won't much be able to get into his vibe, man!
I've always loved the dude. Reading his autobiography rn, makes me like him even more.
>>63221662
Reading it right now actually. So far it's a pretty fun read
>>63214317
You just looked up Zappa's discography and started randomly listing them?
>>63214488
Wow. Somebody doesn't know what clt is. I find that refreshing. Is this that nu /mu/ I've been hearing about.
>>63213820
Zappa was one of the few legitimate visionaries in rock music. At its core, his material was brilliant satire, because instead of just using parody lyrics, he actually mocked musical convention through his experimental composition.
between my old and new last.fm accounts I have nearly 10k Zappa scrobbles
I've watched pretty much all his interviews and documentaries about him and read several Zappa books
ama
>>63214317
It would literally take me all night to pick apart how wrong this all is, but...
>Man From Utopia that high
>Roxy that low
>Dance Me This even listed
>Studio Tan is better than Absolutely Free
Nevermind. I'm done. There's no way you've heard all these albums.
>>63214317
good lord how much time do you have on your hands
>>63221662
its pretty good read it a couple times
>>63213820
why cant he be both?
>>63221742
you should go back to tumblr or reddit with all that shit you are spewing about some of his stuff being sexist. so what? he got more ass even into his forties than you will your whole life and your kids
seriously though go back to your safe space faggot
also where can you find an intro and ending as great as this
>tfw you will never be in london in 1968 tripping on acid while watching this shit on national tv
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ToQWHNFZ2RE
zappa really is god tier though
>>63222497
thats a pretty good assessment actually
