Hip Hop
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You are currently reading a thread in /mu/ - Music
You are currently reading a thread in /mu/ - Music
Jay=Nas>Tupac/Biggie
Jay's the GOAT rapper
tupac wrote the book of rap
eminem made it longer
kanye threw it into the trash!
>>63078837
smart guy
>>63078837
what the fuck does it mean to divide tupac by biggie
>>63078837
Jay wasn't even better than Big L, and yet people put Jay in front of Biggie and Pac and totally omit L. Explain this shit.
>>63078837
He's the worst person. Have you heard him speak? He a shy muhfucka.
>>63078837
people who don't put Jay Z as one of the GOATs don't understand the art of it. having quotables and charisma is always more important than being a lyrical spiritual miracle
that said, Biggie is my #1
>>63078913
you dumb
>>63078913
I can stomach someone arguing Biggie being as good or better than Jay Z even if I disagree, but you Big L warriors have to be the fucking worst.
Never mind the fact that his first album was repetitive poorly written songs that after like the first five literally turned into the same thing with damn near the same chorus each time.
I still don't think tupac is even that good, and not even close to a GOAT
>>63079029
it's all about the pac b-sides man; I used to feel the same way
>>63079026
you're main point is right but you went too far
>>63078965
The thing is Jay is a pinnacle lyricist, he doesn't go lyrical spiritual miracle but his multi-syllable rhyming, flow, and wordplay are all top tier.
>>63078981
Why sir?
Also don't know why I grouped Biggie with Tupac when I also think Biggie is better than him.
>>63079026
people prop up L just because he's dead. it's stupid.
still, he's a top 20, maaaaaybe top 10 and undisputed #1 for punchline rap
>>63079062
Seriously go listen to lifestyle and tell me that the last group of songs on the album aren't literally the same thing again and again but shifted a little, it's ridiculous, especially the choruses.
>>63079062
*your
>>63079064
yeah that's what I meant about Jay, he constantly lays out rhymes that stick in your head.
Jay Z is a perfect example of the old guard in hip hop. his type of skills have gone out of style in favor of people who will spaz on mics saying absurd nonsense really fast
yall sleeping on puff daddy he's still the best
>>63078965
Jay-Z has a terrible discography. He's released 12 solo albums, the only ones which could be considered "great" are reasonable doubt, blueprint, and the black album. Reasonable doubt was great because of Jay, the blueprint was great because of Kanye, and the black album was great because of the production as well. He hasn't made a great album in over a decade, and he has a bunch of albums that were complete shit. That has to count for something.
Biggie only released one album during his lifetime and it is one of the greatest hip-hop albums of all time. Big L's Lifestylez Ov Da Poor & Dangerous doesn't have a single bad track on it, and he too only released one album while he was alive. Pac released a few albums, and he had a few classics and none that were trash, unlike Jay. The fact that Jay has so many trash albums has to count for something, especially when you consider his last few albums which were especially bad.
>>63079026
Literally all l I said was that L was better than Jay. I didn't say that L was top 5 or even top 10. Personally neither Jay or L would be in my top 10, but I can honestly say that L was the better rapper. His technical ability was better, his songs that were topical were better than Jays topical songs, L had better punchlines, and he was the better freestyler.
>>63079050
I still stand by the opinion that biggie and tupac are only hailed as greats not only because they died young but because they were murdered.
>>63079163
>rapper
>albums
FOH
>>63079163
American Gangster exists too
Jay Z doesn't get as much respect as other rappers because he's not as over the top or crazy as other famous rappers. Jay Z is the quiet fire, the blue flame.
>>63079184
even in their time they were hailed as the best to ever do it.
>>63079191
If you don't take into account discography, cultural impact, etc. when considering who the greatest rappers of all time are then you are a pleb. If we were talking about the greatest guitarists of all time would simply how skilled they are, or their technical ability, be the only important factors? If that's the case then I suppose every metal guitarist is better than B.B. King. The songs you make are important. The albums you make are important. You contribution to the respective genre is important.
>>63079220
American Gangster is good, but it's not great.
>>63079318
I understand your argument but Jay Z is definitely a god mc.
Just for the hell of it, listen to "Show and Prove" by Big Daddy Kane. Or Graveyard which I'm sure you know by Big L. Or I love the dough. Or all of the blueprint.
Even on a song or two on WTT he was spitting so fucking hard man
>>63079318
you can rap well over shoddy beats
>>63079163
Let's go through his terrible discography, keeping in mind that Jay being my favorite rapper makes me incredibly biased because i'm going to enjoy stuff that other people may dislike:
>Reasonable Doubt
No need to go through any of this, we already know what it is, I doubt even you'd deny it's quality
>In My Lifetime Vol 1
2 bad songs (Sunshine which I enjoy and I Know What Girls Like)
1 meh song (The City Is Mine)
2 okay songs (Real Niggaz and Face Off)
10 great/amazing songs showing top tier rapping ability.
At least imo.
>Vol 2
Admittedly this is a very pop shiny suit rap album, one that I enjoy a lot being that I'm a big Jay Z fan but even without that being the fact I don't see how it could be considered a bad album, especially when it has songs like:
>Hand It Down
>Hard Knock Life
>If I Die
>Nigga What
>Reservoir Dogs
>It's Like that
To compliment the very good more pop rap songs on the album.
And then there's Vol 3. a controversial album that I think could really use a re-listen from most people, I'd agree that there's some trash on the album, particularly these songs:
It's Hot
S Carter
Pop 4 Roc
and Do It Again
But regardless of that? It has bar for bar some of the best rhyming in Jay Z's career.
I mean how can you deny the quality of:
Things That U Do (even if you hate Mariah's singing on it)
The three amazing Hova songs and the bonus track.
Dope Man (underrated)
Snoopy Track (bouncer)
Watch Me
Big Pimpin (one of the best singles of all time)
There's Been A Murder (criminally underrated)
Come And Get Me (same as above)
So Ghetto (same as above)
And NYMP?
If we're measuring pure rapping ability on those songs, even if you don't like the more "musical" aspect of those you can't deny that they're technically proficient
>Cont.....
>>63079246
He doesn't get the respect because he's successful and isn't a stereotypical weed head intellectual rapper.
Also because he was Biggies guy and because Big died people will always consider his success illegitimate and hate on him for not being "real" when he was actually "realer" and less of a pussy for lack of a better word than Biggie if we're going to go by the facts, never mind the fact that he was one of Bigs two favorite rappers, the only non bad boy/his crew rapper he shouted out (shouted him out next to his mom and daughter in his last interview), wanted to do a collab album with him, and thought he would be the next big thing.
Among other things like the myths of all the people he's left behind or snaked.
>>63079581
you get it
>>63079498
The Dynasty Album is essentially a collab album given a Jay Z title at the last second, but nevertheless he doesn't spit a single weak bar on the entire album and it has arguably the greatest rap intro of all time.
>The Blueprint
Not going to go into this as well, but we all know it's a classic
>The Blueprint 2
I'll agree that this is not a good album though that it could have been one if Jay had cut it down a lot
>The Black Album
Not much to go into with this, but once again it brings Jay Z's classic counter up to three even if you don't enjoy it
>Kingdom Come
Another bad album
>American Gangster
Not a classic though I don't believe that's for lack of skill, I'd definitely put it up against any of Jay's albums as it's my 2nd favorite and it has some of the most technical rhyming skill in his entire career and the songwriting style was pretty original on a lot of them
>Blueprint 2
Okay album, has some dope rhymes on it, particularly the last verse of Empire State Of Mind
>WTT
Dope album, and Hov was spitting on it, highlights for him imo are:
His verse on Gotta Have It and No Church, his verse on Who Gon Stop Me, and Murder to Excellence, and Welcome To The Jungle
>MCHG
Another eh album, not going to say much about this other than I wouldn't bother defending it.
And this brings up Hov's counter to three undeniable classic, six dope albums with classic songs, and three bad/eh albums.
Not a poor discography by any means especially with his longevity.
>>63078857
they're all overrated garbage honestly
>>63079163
Give me a Big L song you think represents his superior skill and i'll match you a Jay Z song.
Also if you don't think AG is great i'd recommend a new listen.
>>63078857
go back to youtube comments
>>63079581
this. Jay did leave those fuckers in the dust though (Dame) not that they didn't have it coming.
>>63079184
Tupac is nowhere near as good of a rapper as Biggie, Jay, or Nas.
>>63080071
ehhh he's not as good, nowhere near is a bit much
>>63080061
People always ignore the money Dame was spending, the people he was firing on Jay's watch, him appointing Cam when Jay went on vacation (though Jay and Cam don't have beef), the money Jay was owed, and the other funny shit Dame was doing when talking about the whole situation.
They also ignore the fact that Jay and Bey went to testify for Beans when talking about him and all the other things he helped him with, when taking about that.
They act like he was supposed to baby sit a grown man who keeps going to jail (and they've met up now).
And with Jaz they ignore the fact that Jay put him as the last feature on RD, gave him a feature on Jigga What, and gave him a deal for the Roc that he really didn't deserve just because he was Jay's mentor.
Never mind the fact that Jaz refused the deal because he wanted more, never mind the fact that Jaz joined a cult and that Jaz flew him out and got him an apartment with Dame then proceeded to give to said cult, nevermind the fact that Jaz went to Nas, nevermind the fact that Jaz goes around spewing illuminati crap about Jay.
Fault is a two way street with these things.
>>63078867
it means big shot pac
>>63080514
Puffy killed Pacaroni.
>>63079937
>taking the bait
>>63080690
big killed a bowl of macaroni
and then like six more
>>63078837
I vote scarface as the goat
>>63080863
He's certainly a candidate.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5D7BA84oneg
Y'all muthafuckas need some Gang Starr.
He has no classics.
>>63082191
>99 Problems
>>63079184
Ready to Die is still one the great hip-hop albums, Biggie's death didn't change that
>>63079246
Jay doesn't get as much respect because for all the good shit he done, he made lot of garbage. Not even half his albums are worth listening
At his absolute best Jay was up there with the best of them. The original Dead Presidents is one of the most iconic hip hop songs ever, his bars are incredible. There are plenty of other classics on Reasonable Doubt too. I find myself rating rappers based on the peaks they reached rather than their overall discography. For instance, Mobb Deep have one undisputed classic album, one great album and the rest are pretty forgettable. But still that's enough for me to call Prodigy one of the best of all time.
>>63078837
Jay is jus high mid tier rapper desu senpai
Jay has the vocals for rap but he hasn't written any lyrics since the 90s and half of albums are shit
Nas>Tupac=Biggie>Em>Kendrick=Ye>Andre 3000>Jay
>>63083704
Bullshit.
He's made three albums not worth listening to, that leaves 9 behind, 1 of which people ignore routinely for absolutely absurd reason (AG), and three classics.
Anyone holding bad albums over him when he's been rapping for over 20 years is completely fucking petty.
Go read posts from his haters, it all boils down to his image and the circumstances around him.
>Huuuur renegade
>Huuuuur Big L freestyle
>Huuuuur Biggie rhymes
>Huuuuur real hip hop
>Huuuuur back when jay z was good
>Huuuuuur bitches and hoes
>Huuuuuur Tupac and Biggie were REAL and Jay Z is only successful because he SNAKED everybody and they're dead
>Cockafella Records
>He's Illuminati
etc etc etc
>>63083788
Jay Z has more peaks than just RD
>>63083987
Tupc is not a better rapper than Jay Z period, maybe you like his songs more or connect with his lyrics more, but if we're measuring multi-syllable rhymes, flows, metaphors/entendres, and punchliens among other techniques there's no denying that Jay Z comes out on top.
Jay Z also does that better than Nas and Em who are much more focused on the rhymin aspect (which Jay is also excellent at) rather than the Jay Z/Pusha T/Lupe like wordplay.
And no Kendrick isn't a better rapper than Jay Z (interestingly enough Kendrick has called Jay Z is the GOAT and said RD is better than Illmatic), Kendrick doesn't match him on anything other than multi-syllable rhymes.
Andre?
Get out of here, great rapper, not as technically skilled of a rapper as a Jay or Em or Nas.
Ye? Tied with Jay as my favorite hip hop artist but nowhere NEAR him or anyone else on this list as a rapper.
Em, he's a robot, but his musical sense is inferior to anyone on this list nor do I believe his non purely rhyming wordplay is as clever as Jay Z's.
And what does Jay not writing down his lyrics have to do with anything? He barely did it on RD, the last song he did it for was Can I Live.
Also only 3 of his albums could be considered shit and they still all have examples of his skill.
