The Epic
Images are sometimes not shown due to bandwidth/network limitations. Refreshing the page usually helps.
You are currently reading a thread in /mu/ - Music
You are currently reading a thread in /mu/ - Music
question from a non-black person: why is it that African-Americans lost their mind over To Pimp a Butterfly by Kendrick "shit don't change until you wash yo ass" Lamar but largely ignored The Epic by Kamasi Washington?
The Epic is clearly a superior album (my AoTY for 2015 and quite possibly AoTD), and imho is a much more solid and positive expression of the awesomeness of blackness than the Pimped Butterfly.
Why are people clinging to Kendrick's patronizing cliches (which imho further denigrates "blackness" and advances negative stereotypes) instead of embracing The Epic?
I don't get it. It's probably because I'm not black. Whatever.
It's on my jazz list
it's too epic
it's mediocre, too long, and doesn't do anything new
>>62545651
you are an idiot.
>>62545531
It's probably because a lot of people are scared away from The Epic by jazz
for some reason people think jazz is boring elevator music
>>62545651
Perhaps you should try actually listening to the album instead of just skimming the bad reviews and barfing it up here.
Dunno about the epic, but TPAB was really mediocre imo. I just couldn't bring myself to like it
>>62545703
no u
>>62545531
What were some of your other favorite jazz releases of 2015? What were some you didn't like?
>>62545531
>expression of the awesomeness of blackness than the Pimped Butterfly.
The Epic isn't really a heavy expression of blackness beyond being jazz.
The Epic isn't anything new, it sounds like 70's jazz recorded with modern technology. There are people who've developed this style ad played it better, long before The Epic came out.
Kamasi also isn't the strongest player and having his album be 3 hours long only make that issue more prominent. His reuses a lot of licks very often and ends his solos very similarly.
If Kamasi made an album that was actually breaking new ground and he played a bit better there might be something to talk about here.
>>62546242
lol, pleb
>>62545651
my review for tlop
>>62545841
This.
OP. What were your 5 favorite and 5 least favorite jazz releases from last year?
>>62545703
>>62545745
It actually isn't very good and the only people who think that is it good obviously haven't listened to any other modern jazz
>>62545841
>what were some other favorite jazz of 2015?
Maria Schneider Jazz Orchestra - The Thompson Fields
Rudresh Mahanthappa - Bird Calls
Cyrus Chestnut - A Million Colors in you Mind
Ron Carter - My Personal Songbook
>what were some you didn't like
too many to mention, and I really subscribe to the "nobody cares what you don't like" approach to criticism.
>inb4 --- buh buh but you sad bad shit about Saint Lamar!
Only for comparison to the Epic, the contrast between those two distinctly "black" albums was, to my ear, striking. It was more of a "why would the african american masses choose to identify with this instead of that".
>>62545531
1. Outside of the black lives matter message, Kendrick's album wasn't all that received by the hood communities.
2. Kamasi Washington and Kendrick have very different fanbases as far as the black population goes.
I'm still trying to figure out why no one talks about Black Messiah anymore.
>>62546491
I care though
>>62545531
black people lost their minds over tpab because it's rap. white people lost their minds over the epic because white guilt
/thread
both albums are just okay
>>62545703
If this isn't bait and you actually think The Epic does anything new, YOU are the idiot and know nothing about jazz.
I don't really buy the "The Epic isn't really anything new" argument, unless you're ready to come into the room with "oh here's some actually new shit". Furthermore, kendrick isn't doing anything new either. It's the Emporer's 'new' Clothes.
>>62546609
>brofist.jpg
dem Palladino bass lines.
>>62546846
It's fine if what you're doing isn't actually completely new, as long as it's executed well and with creativity. The Epic was unfortunately not executed well or with much creativity.
>>62546846
>unless you're ready to come into the room with "oh here's some actually new shit"
Danm, the /epic/ general has already moved into phase 3!
This is where we tell you to listen to Birdcalls.
I think the premise of this question is misguided. Whether or not The Epic is groundbreaking (it isn't, but that is not an attack on its quality), jazz demands too much from the contemporary ADHD listener to be the object of mass cult the way hip hop is. It's like asking why white people prefer Taylor Swift over classical.
nigs are normies
>>62547101
Fair enough, good answer.
>>62547015
>Birdcalls
meh. it's been done.
>>62546973
>>62546804
>you know nothing about jazz
(rolls eyes) is this where we have to get into a tailfeather
>>62545651
>still listens to music just because it "does something new"
none of it does, you're delusional and sound like a kid
>>62547173
whoops, submitted too quickly. What I was rhetorically asking was:
Is this where we have to get into a tailfeathers-and-pissing contest about who knows more about jazz, who has the deeper record collection that they've actually listened to, who's actually toured as a jazz musician and backing up whom and all that shit?
The "if you don't agree with my opinion then you know nothing" argument is so... so... overdone.
>>62547185
This. Furthermore, to complain about how a jazz record isn't "new" is to fail to understand the core conceptual underpinning of jazz.
>3 fucking hours long
How am I supposed to listen to this shit
>>62547249
>overdone
too much irony. my head is going to explode.
>>62545531
no black people actually care about TPAB. The ones that do are mostly reverse uncle tom mizzou protesters.
Why are there so many racebait threads today
>>62546440
Yup.
>>62547376
OP here, I solemnly promise this is not racebait, I really was mystified at the apparent disparity in reception among the black community between those two albums.
>>62547367
Only Asian people like TPAB.
>>62545531
Legitimate question: why do people praise this album so much? I've listened to it and think it's pretty good but there were so many other jazz releases in 2015 that were much more interesting to me.
I'd love to hear anyone's justification for why The Epic would be better than albums like Chris Lightcap's Epicenter, Rudresh Mahantahappa's Bircalls or Steve Coleman's Synovial Joints to name a few. Because I don't see any reason.
>>62547173
The approach to contrafact and abstracted use of musical quotation based on Bird's tunes he does in the context of his really Indian style of playing makes for a pretty unique record though.
>>62546491
>too many to mention, and I really subscribe to the "nobody cares what you don't like" approach to criticism
I care. Some must have stuck out to you.
because one if fucking hip hop and the other is jazz.
now think for yourself.
>>62545531
>why is a hip-hop album by a well known and well loved artist more popular than a 3 hour long debut jazz album
Hmmm...
I wonder...
>>62545531
marketing?
>>62545531
its like asking why normies dont like "good music". albums from artists like Kendrick sell, while artists who are far less main stream, yet "better", like Kamasi go almost unknown to most consumers.
nice b8 i replied
>>62545531
cause dumb monkyes like dumb ghetto monkeys singing about licking monkey pussy and playing victim even tho they know they are inferior
1. Kamasi's playing isn't very good. He resorts to the same tropes and cliches in every solo and simply doesn't know how to structure and build a complex solo.
2. The rest of the main players, while mostly better than Kamasi, aren't especially great at building interesting solos either. At least from what we hear in this album. Kamasi's solos are typically 2-3 times longer than any other solos so we don't really get a chance to hear what most of the other players would do with that amount of space.
3. The album has no focus. It feels like three different albums jammed together. Half the tracks have a cinematic, cheesy "spiritual post-bop" feel. Then some feel like a separate album of smooth jazz flavored hip hop. There's no continuity.
4. Clair de Lune
5. Part of being a good artist is recognizing your strengths and weaknesses and being able to edit yourself. Now there's nothing inherently wrong with a 3 hour album, but when the album is this inconsistent, unfocused, and held together by mediocre improvisation, it really makes it a chore to stomach three hours worth. If he had cut this down to a ~1 hour album it would have been not bad. Maybe even promising since there is potential for Kamasi to improve his soloing.
>>62547481
>I'd love to hear anyone's justification for why The Epic would be better than albums like Chris Lightcap's Epicenter, Rudresh Mahantahappa's Bircalls or Steve Coleman's Synovial Joints to name a few. Because I don't see any reason.
Because nobody who is praising The Epic has heard any of these except maybe Bird Calls. Even then, they probably only heard Bird Calls because somebody posted it in a thread similar to this one and they listened to it while wanting to dislike it because "that's what the jazz elitists like"
Just wondering, what is it you guys don't like about TPAB? It was my AOTY
>>62547953
Yeah that's what I'm thinking as well. Oh well, I hope The Epic will be a gateway to actual good jazz for a lot of people. I guess it's good that jazz is getting some attention.
>>62548111
Contrarians dislike it because other people like it, anyone who takes it seriously knows it's a good album. My AOTY as well.
>>62545651
same applies to TPAB
>>62547825
>4. Clair de Lune
kek'd hard
Because it's a three hour long jazz album and not a rap album by a popular artist. It's fucking obvious stop being an idiot
