Loudness war
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You are currently reading a thread in /mu/ - Music
You are currently reading a thread in /mu/ - Music
Recently I've heard of this phenomenon called "loudness war". It's about the dynamic range compression in today's music.
What does /mu/ thing about this?
Here is an article about it with a video explaining what it is:
http://www.cnet.com/news/is-dynamic-range-compression-destroying-music/
>>62057623
it needs to be stopped
Everyone and their nan knows what dynamic range compression is. Fuck off to reddit you newfag
>>62057623
>Recently
Are you underage?
>>62057667
He wanted a discussion about it and even linked to something informing those who just lurk about it in case they haven't heard about it, and here you are shitposting and trying to act cool. YOU fuck back off to Reddit, there you can have a username and get upvotes for your stupid, snide comments.
>>62057687
Triggered?
>>62057687
This tbqh senpai
People have no need to be hostile like that
>>62057667
So what do you think about it?
>>62057706
good retort
>>62057623
>>62057687
>>62057712
>>62057718
Don't you have a pop general or hug box to go back to?
>>62057623
It's shit. It makes Tame Impala doubly bad, playing bland psych rock and then amping it to fuck as if it's the best shit ever and you've just got to hear it.
Fuck the cunts who do this.
>>62057732
>le ebin everything must be le rude and angsty on my board
seriously?
>>62057761
This album is very loud. Pisses me off.
distortion is making a comeback
>>62057731
>>62057742
>stop leaving mean comments
>le
He's right, everyone should have heard of dynamic range compression long ago and formed their opinion on it, unless you are a retarded newfag who shouldn't be posting here. Go back to plebbit.
>>62057774
Thanks for confirming you're new.
>>62057774
>calling reddit "plebbit"
>implying /mu/ isn't just as bad for plebs, if not worse
How to spot a neo-/mu/ retard.
>>62057802
Hello newfriend
>>62057667
>>62057706
>>62057732
>>62057774
Listen up fuckheads. You're all massive faggots and shit like this is the reason why you will still be posting shitty feels threads about not having a girlfriend who understands your taste in music from now until either you die or 4chan closes down, whichever is sooner.
If you try and turn music into a walled garden then that's exactly what you're going to get: a walled garden. At some point you were a newfag who didn't know what dynamic range compression was, and somebody told you, because they weren't an autistic fuck who thought they were better than everyone else. Maybe just have a fucking discussion on this board rather than just posting "DUDE PLEBBIT LMAO" every time a newfag comes on here looking to make an interesting thread about the loudness war.
Chug bleach.
I would like to go on record here, and declare that if dynamic compression is so bad- then you need softer headphones or an EQ. Perhaps better choice in music.
That is all, senpai.
>>62057870
>using iOS
reddit 2bh
>>62057623
desu Rick Rubin is to blame.
>>62058041
Owen Morris actually
>>62057876
>i have no idea what i'm talking about, but would like to appear as if i do while justifying my choice in shitty compressed music
Can someone post an example of a song where compression is really obvious? I
some compression is necessary, especially with instruments where dynamic control is more difficult to record, ie every percussion or string instrument. If you hear a record without compression, it will distinctly sound lofi. I for one like that sound, but then again I'm recording into a tascam digital recorder.
>>62058235
>>62058235
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B9dSYgd5Elk
>>62058235
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xUMqqVOlJBs
>>62058235
Listen to californication. The album was butchered by compression.
>>62058259
ma nigguh
>>62058235
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w9s69kXFkAw
>>62058259
This
Seriously, it breaks my heart
>mfw people actually want their eardrums blown out every time there's a snaredrum because the song wasn't properly mixed because it means greater dynamic range
>>62058235
Every time it sounds like your speakers have hair pressed against them, that's clipping distortion.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0nRJFsdUvqA
Iggy Pop's Raw Power mix.
Compare it with that version: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GdKhf5_JYjM
My Beautiful Dark Twisted Fantasy is another famous offender.
>>62058338
>>62058346
>tripfags
>like buttrock
fucking repulsive
>>62057718
Well, it's understandable for some forms of music and can even be a benefit... but from a technical audio standpoint it destroys the sound. Some may want their music to sound destroyed, but for the most part it's loudness for the sake of loudness.
>>62058384
>Master bus compression
>Mix stage
>>62058452
No, it breaks my heart how terribly mixed it is. It's one of the only things I've listened to that physically hurt to sit through
>>62057761
>>62057768
proof that compression doesn't always have to be bad
>>62058384
(You)
Isn't this mostly the case with shitty pop music though?
You guys do realize you can pull songs that clip into audacity and use the automatic volume editor to bring them back down while retaining all the information, right?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wVfUimq2KeI#t=6m21s
Mix is so brickwalled that when the rest of the instruments come in they smash against the compressor and the perceived volume of the entire track dips for a split second, the exact opposite of the effect you want when you have a bunch of instruments come in at the same time.
>>62058560
1. The audio will still be clipped
2. You'll actually be further reducing the dynamic range.
Classical and Jazz is unaffected by this.
I recently analyzed a few 2015 albums and none of them was overly compressed.
Just get good taste in music and you're golden.
It's awful and should be boycotted. Especially brickwalled remasters — making something sound worse is now considered a selling point. Says something about how bad major labels are.
Makes it a pain in the neck to find good quality rips of major label albums too, now you have to avoid transcodes AND shitty remasters.
>>62057876
>>62058384
Don't be ridiculous. Not everything needs an extreme dynamic range, but volume is an important aspect of music, sound clarity too.
And there's no excuse for clipping whatsoever — might as well convert your music to 112 kbps MP3 and claim it's an "artistic choice".
>>62058560
Is this bait? The information that should have been there is deleted, there's no retrieving it. And the clipping distortion is there anyway.
>>62058670
Thank goodness they are, but "good taste in music" doesn't mean limiting yourself to a few genres.
>>62058710
>might as well convert your music to 112 kbps MP3 and claim it's an "artistic choice".
You are joking but...
http://news.slashdot.org/story/09/03/11/153205/young-people-prefer-sizzle-sounds-of-mp3-format
>>62058710
>And there's no excuse for clipping whatsoever
The Kinks confirmed for destroying music.
Oh my god it's 2016 unless you listen to Top40 shit the loudness war no longer exists.
>>62058758
>implying
>>62058758
Well sometimes it happens when they remaster an album.
Is it just me or is the Gorguts album Obscura heavily compressed? That shit blows my eardrums out everytime.
>>62058665
>>62058710
Pic related.
Took Robo Kitty by Excision and made that shit not clip.
The dynamic range is unaffected as it is all still there.
>>62058807
Just analyze it yourself if in doubt
>>62058807
Yeah, but it works.
>>62058817
But that's still heavily clipped. Zoom in on some of the transients m8.
>>62058818
I'll go ahead and say yeah, without looking at the audio waveforms
>>62058821
Fair point, it is supposed to be a surreal, hellish, dissonant and chaotic death metal landscape after all.
>>62058560
>>62058817
>someone used their time to post b8 this bad
>>62058874
No it's not.
Audacity automatically lowers it to the point where the loudest part of the song just barely doesn't clip.
Pic related.
It's the loudest point.
Notice how it hits the ceiling without clipping?
>>62058975
The ignorance is strong... the original audio source is clipped. All you've done is turn the volume down.
What a sad thread.
>>62059005
Not that anon, but what he's done is basically turn the mix down while keeping the ceiling the same.
This DOES prevent clipping but it can sometimes result in watery-sounding audio.
If the source is high enough quality what he's doing could actually work.
Has anybody heard the panopticon remaster? Doesnt sound all that different to me.
>>62059125
I think the mix is a little different, some elements seem to be a little louder
personally I like Reddit and use it along with /mu/
>>62057834
lol copypasta gold
Honestly, you're just wasting your energy. Just get used to it and learn to laugh at everyone, as well as yourself.
>>62057834
actually we're objecting to music being brickwalled
>>62058817
You lose information when songs clip. Changing the volume in an audio editor just makes the clipped audio quieter. It's sort of like taking a really blocky jpg, resizing it to half of it's original size and claiming that you've fixed it.
>>62059157
I use both because of necessity but hate them equally. Both sites are full of edgy redpilled teenagers. /mu/ is slightly more tolerable because threads here don't devolve into everyone trying to make a shitty joke for upvotes.
The "loudness" war happens because "loud" music is more profitable and it's aimed at total retards.It's basically aimed at retards who listen to 128kbps Kanye West mp3s on their Beats and think they've got the most amazing set up in the world. Since these retards can't tell the difference between bad and good audio, they wrongly assume the louder something is, the better it is. It also helps because retards who listen to Kanye West would probably get bored if a 3 minute song wasn't constantly turned to 11.
>>62059157
>>62059362
Reddit's general music subreddit is terrible. It has some smaller music subreddits dedicated to certain genres, which are okay.
Reddit's karma system is both it's strong and weak point simultaneously.
>>62059442
Reddit's karma system is good in theory but it's completely misused. It's supposed to be there to downvote content that doesn't add to a discussion, instead everyone uses it to downvote opinions they don't like. Most subreddits turn into circlejerks since unpopular opinions get censored with downvotes.
Same with 4chan's anonymity and lack of moderation. In theory it could be a good thing, but people abuse it to bait and shitpost.
>>62059442
yeah I wasn't saying I use Reddit for music
ultimately the upvote system has given Reddit bad taste
I fucking hate how every metal album these days have a compressed electronic drum taking up half of the album's audio spectrum.
>>62057769
You don't have to clip to distort
>>62057623
>1991
>music expands in length
>1999
>invention of pauses
>>62059531
Well it does depend on the subgenre a little. It's especially bad in the technical genres, but it doesn't bother me as much in metal.
>>62059208
>"don't share my opinion?? Then go to reddit!"
yes anon totally not brickwalling
see
>>62057870
>>62059362
I agree with you, except I think you should look at /r/letstalkmusic or /r/truemusic to discuss music instead of the default sub. It's terrible and a hugbox, but /mu/ isn't much better in many ways.
Those subs don't attempt to reach for upvotes, because it isn't a big subreddit.
>>62058235
Some infamous albums:
Oasis - (What's the Story) Morning Glory? (considered the 'catalyst' of the loudness war)
Red Hot Chili Peppers - Californication
Green Day - American Idiot
Slipknot - Vol. 3 (The Subliminal Verses)
Linkin Park - The Hunting Party
Metallica - Death Magnetic
Thank God there is MFSL, DCC, Analogue Productions and Audio Fidelity.
It's the musical equivalent to pre-salted french fries.
>>62058342
Is it really that bad? I really love this song/album and never noticed it being bad.
>>62058235
MBDTF
>I know better than the artist!
Do armchair mastering engineers really believe this?
>>62058477
fuck that, i'd listen to the dogshit out of a remastered version of itaots
>>62058235
Anything Rick Rubin has produced in the last decade.
An example anyone should be able to notice is Black Skinhead (and really all of Yeezus)
>>62062903
>Anything Rick Rubin has produced in the last decade.
But he didn't master any of them.
>>62062941
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rick_Rubin#Criticisms_by_artists_and_listeners
He produced all of them. There's a correlation in this case that does, in fact, imply causation. Most of the albums that >>62062152 were produced by Rubin as well.
>>62063047
>He produced all of them.
OK but see >>62062941
>There's a correlation in this case that does, in fact, imply causation
I don't think you understand how the music industry works.
>>62063076
Think of the possibilities here.
1. It just so happened that Rubin got paired with really shitty engineers on all of his recent projects so he's getting heat for it
2. Rubin wanted them mastered that way and so requested it
Just because he's not the official mastering engineer doesn't mean that he couldn't have any influence on the mastering. If he recorded the tracks with an insane amount of clipping, there's no mastering in the world that could fix that.
>>62063127
>1. It just so happened that Rubin got paired with really shitty engineers on all of his recent projects so he's getting heat for it
We are talking about mastering, not production.
>2. Rubin wanted them mastered that way and so requested it
[citation needed]
>If he recorded the tracks with an insane amount of clipping
Most likely he wasn't even present during the sessions. Look it up.
>>62063076
are you for real? Rubin was definitely behind that shit
>>62063158
He didn't master it, so no.
>>62063214
>>>/youtubecomments/
>>62062296
explain these abbreviations plz
>>62057623
Blame Oasis and their producer
>>62062296
Why do MoFi have to tamper with the album artwork? Looks like cheap shit.
Loudness war exists because whoever plays the loudest in a store sells much more.
This is SO old news that the loudness war is already dying and dynamic range is coming back already.
>>62058560
You don't understand the problem, compression lowers the dynamic range meaning the amplitude of the quietest and loudest signals come closer together. You can't undo that just by lowering the amplitude of the whole thing.
For those that don't understand the problem, imagine how underwhelming Thus Spoke Zarathustra would sound if the quietest parts weren't that much quieter than the loudest parts.
>>62062853
>Implying the artists are the ones choosing most of the time
>>62057834
>If you try and turn music into a walled garden then that's exactly what you're going to get: a walled garden.
Great, just as planned.
>>62062902
It would be better that's for sure.
>>62058817
>Took Robo Kitty by Excision
Better idea dont listen fucking Excision unironically
