>"Jazz serves a cultural function in the music scene. It is a signifier for musical 'adulthood'. To embrace jazz is to don a kind of graduation cap, signifying a broadening of tastes outside 'mere' rock music. This ostentatious display of 'sophistication' is an insult, and I find the graduation cappers transparent and tedious. Certainly there must be interesting music one could call 'jazz'. There must be. I've never heard it, but I grant that it is out there somewhere. Jazz has a non-musical parallel: Christiania, the 'free' zone in Copenhagen. In Christiania, like in jazz, there is no law. People are left to their own inventions to create and act as they see fit. In Jazz, the musicians are allowed to improvise over and beside structural elements that may themselves be extemporaneous. Sounds good, doesn't it? Freedom — sounds good. The reality is much bleaker. Christiania is a squalid, trashy string of alleys with rag-and-bone men selling drugs, tie-dye and wretched food. Granted Total Freedom, and this is what they've chosen to do with it, sell hash and lentil soup? Jazz is similar. The results are so far beneath the conception that there is no English word for the disappointment one feels when forced to confront it. Granted Total Freedom, you've chosen to play II V I and blow a goddamn trill on the saxophone? Only by willfully ignoring its failings can one pretend to appreciate it as an idiom and don the cap."
Whoever wrote this sounds like they got too many compliments about their intellegence as a child
I don't know whhat tf that was supposed to mean, but i DO know sun ra created some of humanity's greatest music
>Steve "The Hack" Albini giving a dissenting opinion on anything
![quote-jazz-is-the-false-liquidation-of-art-instead-of-utopia-becoming-reality-it-disappears-theodor-adorno-65-70-76[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/oGMKWEz.jpg "quote-jazz-is-the-false-liquidation-of-art-instead-of-utopia-becoming-reality-it-disappears-theodor-adorno-65-70-76[1].jpg")
>>61832851
"'Jazz' is classical music for the lazy, the unstructured, and the undisciplined. It is the demotic perversion of a nearby grandeur." - Theodor Adorno
to be quietly honest with you family he isn't wrong
jazz has about the most boring, even offensively tasteless normal formal structure in all of music
>sell hash and lentil soup?
these are actually two really great and still underrated things
>>61832993
>>61833015
>meaningless arguments: the thread
>>61833062
so you just sit there and listen while a bunch of drug addled jerkoffs take turns soloing a tune? but it's all okay because it's fast?
there are plenty of flaws with jazz but you have to be familiar with the genre to know them, which is why people like
>>61833087
>>61833015
have no leg to stand on
>>61833015
>>61833087
You really have no idea what you're talking about.
>>61833119
wow you completely btfo me
>>61833016
Agreed, and rag and bone men selling hash and lentil soup in the city sounds like a great visualization of a jazz album tbqh
>>61832851
Pretty telling and extremely cringeworthy that someone would actually believe that all of the hundreds of millions of people that have enjoyed jazz were doing it to appear sophisticated. What an unbelievably pretentious faggot. You probably have to be a special kind of petty and insecure to make these kinds of baseless assumptions.
>>61833148
Alright. You can literally listen to any songs from the album in the OP and that pretty much instantly throws your generalizations of "normal formal structure" and "fast soloing" completely out the window.
>>61833194
I mean in all honesty I've severely fucking hated the lentil soups I've had but I'm still very impressed by how efficient a food it is. Few things have gotten me so full off so few calories.
Then hash I just mean underrated legally so i think still that technically qualifies.
as for steve his output has been spotty and best and actually pretty fucking lame over the last decade so he could probably stand to incorporate a little jazz.
>>61833225
*so I'm still hopeful for someone to make lentil soup right and would never begrudge anyone for trying
>>61833225
Yeah lentils aren't a delicacy or anything but prepared right they go down easy and are basically super food
Idek who is the Steve that said this, my response was based on the text alone and the text said enough
>>61832945
which Sun Ra would you rec? I've only heard Atlantis (and loved it)
>>61833241
steve albini
last two shellac albums have been average at best
>>61833015
>formal structure
laughed out loud there
jazz fans and musicians don't really care if people appreciate their music.
We don't seek your approval. We listen and create music for ourselves and the people who will listen.
So the whole thread and argument really can go down the shitter for all we care.
That being said, there are so many indicators that OP's author doesn't really understand what he's referring to when he rejects "jazz"
let me remark upon the indicators:
>total freedom, relegating jazz to some sort of willy-nilly train-of-thought music
Jazz can have structure and most often does. Improvised solos are VERY structured most of the time.
I can't believe people who claim to enjoy music can really hate "jazz" as a collective term. It's so clueless and juvenile that I'm actually bewildered. Is this a real fucking thing?
>>61833276
Only with pseudointellectuals who have small dicks
>>61833148
>>61833087
>>61833105
You're a complete fucking moron
If you can't appreciate an improvised jazz solo you really have no business browsing a music board
>>61833324
people who hate jazz must have been intimidated by things which seem "haute" or elitist, they're the kinds of people who think fine art is a scam or that expensive restaurants shouldn't exist
I pity you desu
>>61833360
Me? Bud I'm saying that only pseudointellectuals with little penises dislike jazz
I'm joking anyway there's nothing wrong with disliking something but dismissing it and everyone who likes it is obviously ridiculous and probably a cry for help of some kind, albini is asking someone to save him from drowning in his own bullshit
>>61833396
sorry I jumped the gun.
anyways Jazz can be really accessible
The thing is most retards just jump into '80s Miles Davis because that's what the bigshots told them was GOAT
jazz is as diverse and layered as classical, rock, or anything.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JaoaZGt_cWY
>>61833254
not him but check out lanquidity, sound of joy and sleeping beauty
>>61833276
yeah ok bud you keep going you maverick, you know what you're doing is true art
>black urban genre completely appropriated by academia
>compositional aspect severely lacking
>aura of sophistication and elitism
>instrumentation and harmony stuck in the 50s
>garish notion of individual expression via a solo
It's not like I've no interest in the genre at all but you can't really deny its flaws (there are more) , least of all by citing an artist or two who vaguely avoid them
>>61833527
Drop all that stupid fucking pretense about "cultural appropriation" and "sophistication and elitism" because that's not what jazz is about. At its core jazz is about playing music, and playing what you hear and what you feel over music. That's it. You can bitch all you want about how soloing is a hamfisted form of personal expression but it doesn't make you right.
I have to say I agree with a lot of what Albini says on jazz. It comes from a place of frustration, not disdain. Beyond a few gems, I find the generic tones and styling of the genre to be pretty boring.
I wish I could get into more but it's just not exciting to me. :(
>>61833715
>I wish I could get into more but it's just not exciting to me. :(
Just lose a few iq points and then pretend that jazz is the most "soulful" music.
