Can anyone else's music in the last decade compare to Joanna's excellence?
>>61534917
Actually better. And a nicer voice.
>>61534946
idiot
>>61534973
Fuck off Joanna fanboy.
>>61534946
glad joanna hasn't resorted to meme outfits, significantly altering her appearance, and pretentious on-stage antics to maintain relevance
>>61535025
>meme outfits, significantly altering her appearance, and pretentious on-stage antics to maintain relevance
Tell that to David Bowie too. When you plebs learn to separate the image from the actual music?
>>61535058
I've separated them. Annie is shit while Bowie is great, that's why Bowie can get away with it
>>61535386
>Annie is shit
According to who? You decided that?
>>61534946
lol
>>61536561
You know it's true
>>61535891
According to her songwriting, which is generally poor after her first album.
>>61536737
Idiotic argument. And her songwriting quality was judged by who? You?
You can't bring the general consensus argument because it's overwhelmingly in her favor. You're fighting against the stream dude.
>>61536818
>Idiotic argument.
Why?
>And her songwriting quality was judged by who [sic]? You?
Yes, me.
>You can't bring the general consensus argument because it's overwhelmingly in her favor.
It's a good thing I didn't do that, then.
Stop the pointless arguing and post rare Joannas
>>61536959
http://www.last.fm/music/Joanna+Newsom/+images/6ab95b6cfbe44eaab3a5c2888a31b49f
go nuts
>>61535891
>running straight to the subjectivity argument
next you will talk about the meme pop awards she has won
>>61536881
>>And her songwriting quality was judged by who [sic]? You?
>Yes, me.
lfmao. Tell me one reason why should I give a damn about your opinion?
>>61537270
Judging music is subjective. But opinions could be relevant or irrelevant. What opinion is more relevant: the general consensus or yours?
>next you will talk about the meme pop awards she has won
No.
>>61537386
>Judging music is subjective
>mfw
Sufjan is a better, though Joanna is the better lyricist.
>>61537386
>argumentum ad populum
Fuck off.
>>61535058
>When you plebs learn to separate the image from the actual music?
plebs dont, thats why hacks like bowie and annie are popular
>>61537310
Why should I care about yours?
go ahead, continue, this is entertaining...
>>61537659
>masking his incompetence between some latin words
Fuck off. Give me some real arguments not that crap.
>>61537702
Answer to my question first.
>>61537240
Thanks man
>>61534946
Yeah and at least she doesn't use a memeharp
>>61538055
I assume you're the anon who posted >>61534946
In that case, you posted your opinion before I posted mine. The onus is on you to explain why I should care about your opinion.
>>61535025
she def does not have a meme voice or play a meme instrument ;)
Would it seem gay for a man, perhaps myself for instance, to learn the harp?
There is an unfair conflation between harps and angels that colors perceptions - however the greatest angels were masculine of course.
Perhaps the harp is the most apocalyptic and male instrument of all?
>>61538308
just do what you want and commit to it. if you're good at it no one will care if it's gay or not.
>>61535025
Not an anniefag but is her wood sprite persona really all that different?
>>61538205
I asked you something. Would you mind replying? You said that her songwriting quality was judged by you (and you said that it's poor). Why should I care about your opinion, an anon from an image board?
It's hilarious to see people like you stating opinions (her songwriting is poor) as facts. St. Vincent isn't a bad musician just because you want that.
>>61538243
The guitar is the biggest meme instrument of all time
>it's a St Vincent fag who spams metacritic and can barely speak English thread
>>61538352
joanna may as well play the ukulele
>>61538346
>I asked you something. Would you mind replying?
I would, because the burden of proof is on you to first explain why Clark is a better musician than Newsom.
>Why should I care about your opinion, an anon from an image board?
*An imageboard specifically for sharing and discussing opinions on music
Why would you come here if you don't care about anyone else's opinion?
>It's hilarious to see people like you stating opinions (her songwriting is poor) as facts.
It's hilarious to see people like you constructing moronic strawman arguments and thinking you're intelligent because of it. I never claimed my opinion was a fact.
>>61534946
lmao
>>61538386
>it's an asshole that spam every St. Vincent thread with drivel
Go fuck yourself
>tfw like St. Vincent but absolutely abhor Anniefags shitting up every thread
>>61537840
I would powerfuck her feminist face so hard
>>61538964
Arguing = shitting up every thread?
>>61539097
yes
>>61539106
LOL. It's a music board. Of course there will be arguments. Do you expect to agree with every opinion?
>>61539184
>LOL.
reddit is that way --->
>>61539097
If by "arguing" you mean proclaiming their precious Vinnie to be better than virtually any other musician under the sun, then resorting to argumentum ad populum and using the "subjectivity" clause as a way to escape backing up their claims, then yes, that does equate to shitting up every thread.
>>61539245
What's wrong with reddit?
>>61539264
wew lad
>>61539248
>proclaiming their precious Vinnie to be better than virtually any other musician under the sun
Where did I say that? Fyi I don't consider her the best musician under the sun. Better than Newsom? Yes.
>>61539184
>This artist is very good
>WELL GUESS WHAT ST VINCENT IS BETTER AND SHE ALSO HAS A NICER FACE YOU IDIOT
>I disagree
>WHO ARE YOU? YOUR OPINION IS NOTHING. NOTHING. ST VINCENT IS THE GREATEST ARTIST OF THE 21st CENTURY AND GREATEST FEMALE ARTIST EVER.
not much of a debate is it
>>61539317
>Better than Newsom? Yes.
No.
>>61539317
It's hyperbole.
>Better than Newsom? Yes.
Why?
>>61539383
>Why?
plebs are gonna pleb
>>61539319
waifuwars are so stupid. there are some pretty bored people on here who would waste their time just making statements like that just because they know fans and/or waifufags can't control their "autism" and rush to defend their "queen" even if they have to samefag to get it started. I think the tactic is lazy and old.
>>61539319
The question was:
>Can anyone else's music in the last decade compare to Joanna's excellence?
And my answer was:
>Actually better. And a nicer voice.
I'm not allowed to think that she's better than Newsom? It's my own opinion. And speaking of their voices, it's pretty clear that Newsom's voice is much more divisive than St. Vincent's voice.
>ST VINCENT IS THE GREATEST ARTIST OF THE 21st CENTURY AND GREATEST FEMALE ARTIST EVER.
You said that, not me.
>>61539383
>Better than Newsom? Yes.
>Why?
Better: voice, songwriting, melodies, lyrics, live shows, playing. Also more experimental and diverse.
You can't do that much with folk music and harps.
>>61539496
>Fuck off Joanna fanboy.
>When you plebs learn to separate the image from the actual music?
>According to who?
>judged by who? You?
>You can't bring the general consensus argument because it's overwhelmingly in her favor.You're fighting against the stream dude.
>Judging music is subjective.
>What opinion is more relevant: the general consensus or yours?
>Give me some real arguments not that crap.
>I asked you something. Would you mind replying?
>Why should I care about your opinion, an anon from an image board?
>It's hilarious to see people like you stating opinions as facts.
>Go fuck yourself
great arguments, not petulant at all, I bet people IRL love talking to you
>>61539600
>taking sentences out of context
"Well" played
>>61539569
>voice
If you're a poptimist
>songwriting
>melodies
too different to compare desu senpai
>lyrics
>live shows
>playing
I'd have to say you're pretty much objectively wrong on these counts
>>61539626
I did you a favor, they're way more embarrassing in context
>>61539633
>If you're a poptimist
Not really. You can enjoy listening to her voice even if you're not a poptimist. Her music is generally indie rock with some pop influences, not pure pop.
>I'd have to say you're pretty much objectively wrong on these counts
It's hard to compare them so everyone will be biased. But I suggest you to watch a St. Vincent live show: much more exciting than a boring Newsom show.
>>61534917
Kanye West
LCD Soundsystems
Arcade Fire
MF DOOM (and his discography under various names)
Suffy stevens
Agalloch
Sleater-Kinney
Beach House
The Microphones
Porcupine Tree
CunninLynguists
Animal Collective
Vektor
The Roots
I'm not saying these artists have better discographies than based Joanna, but I think it's comparable
>>61539658
They're not. They make sense in the context. If you don't agree with them, your problem.
>>61539734
>You can enjoy listening to her voice even if you're not a poptimist.
That's not what I meant, I mean I value the qualities of Joanna's voice more than Annie's.
>much more exciting than a boring Newsom show
I've seen plenty of footage of both and Newsom's shows are better than listening to her albums, and listening to her albums is better than anything Annie's ever done.
>>61539766
You are such a fucking baby, please tell me this is le most epik troll of 2016
>>61539843
>That's not what I meant, I mean I value the qualities of Joanna's voice more than Annie's.
>I've seen plenty of footage of both and Newsom's shows are better than listening to her albums, and listening to her albums is better than anything Annie's ever done.
Subjectivity. Enough said.
>>61539905
Yeah, enough said. You can fuck off back to your St. Vincent subreddit now
>>61539905
No, man, you're the retard that likes a thing more that the other. Shame on you, btw, Joanna's voice is shit.
>>61539956
epic post my man
um random guy passing by, Joanna is objectively better than saint vinny, but not because vinny is bad, but because Joanna is just THAT much better
>>61539974
hella fuckin epics post my friend, every single one of them. Has Joanna inducted you into her band of knights?
>>61540062
basically this
>>61539956
You're actually a retard and an asshole. Shame on you.
>>61540095
This isn't Reddit, my friend. You can stop talking like a faggot.
>>61540062
>Joanna is objectively better than saint vinny
Nice joke
>>61538984
Who?
"Joanna the best female musician" is a meme? That throwback music has nothing special and her voice is like Lisa Simpson.
>>61539569
>voice
Annie's voice grates on me heavily. She sings with a pleasant timbre but imbues her vocal delivery with some kind of faux-sensuality or melodrama that sounds extremely contrived. She sounds like Marilyn Monroe singing "Happy Birthday Mr. President" in almost every song.
>songwriting
Name a single St Vincent song that's as well-written as "No Provenance".
>melodies
Name a single St Vincent song with a melody as good as the vocal melody in "You and Me, Bess"
>lyrics
Post a stanza by St Vincent that is on par with this
>And so, with the courage of a clown, or a cur, or a kite jerking tight at its tether
>In her dun-brown gown of fur and her jerkin of swansdown and leather
>Bear would sway on her hind legs, the organ would grind dregs of song, for the pleasure
>Of the children who'd shriek, throwing coins at her feet then recoiling in terror
>live shows
I've never seen either of them live so I can't comment on this, but the quality of their live shows doesn't impact the quality of their recorded material.
>playing
They play different instruments so it would be extremely difficult to compare them, but again, this doesn't affect their songwriting.
>more experimental
I don't think you know what that means, but again, there's nothing inherently good about experimentation.
>diverse
This is a pretty vague term. Can you elaborate?
>You can't do that much with folk music and harps
Joanna's music isn't really folk, and her instrumental palette is far more expansive than Annie's.
>>61540304
Couldn't fit this in my previous post.
>Marry Me personnel
Annie Clark – vocals, guitars, bass guitar, piano, organ, Moog, synthesizers, melodica, xylophone, vibraphone, dulcimer, drum programming, triangle, percussion
Nathan Blaz – cello
Al Carson – sound design on "Landmines"
Merrilee Challiss – choir
Daniel Farris – choir, synthesizer, percussion
Mike Garson – grand piano
Jessica Grant – choir
Daniel Hart – violin
Heather Macintosh – cello
Rick Nelson – violin, viola, cello, upright bass
Lester Nuby – vibraphone
Andrea Paschal – choir
Mark Pirro – bass guitar on "Now, Now"
Aynsley Powell – drum programming on "Landmines"
Lauren Ross – flute, clarinet, bassoon, trumpet, French horn
Louis Schadwron – French horn
Brian Teasley – drums, percussion
>Have One On Me personnel
Joanna Newsom – harp, piano, vocals
Alex Camphouse – horn
Dan Cantrell – piano, hammond organ, pump organ, harpsichord, accordion
Patrick Cress – bass clarinet
Ryan Francesconi – Bulgarian tambura, kaval, acoustic guitar, electric guitar, electric bass, banjo, mandolin, soprano recorder
Sascha Groschang – cello
Djeina Haruta – viola
Shawn Jones – bassoon
Shira Kammen – vielle, rebec
Dan Koretzky – timpani
Katie Kresek – violin
Judith Linsenberg – alto, tenor and bass recorder
Kane Mathis – kora
Greg Moore – backing vocals
Thom Moore – backing vocals
Neal Morgan – drum set, percussion, timpani, backing vocals
David Morris – viola da Gamba
Yeolim Nam – violin
Eric Oberthaler – trumpet, cornet
Philip Payton – violin
Laura Reynolds – oboe
Andrew Roitstein – double bass
Phaedon Sinis – flute, tarhu, kemence
Lily Storm – backing vocals
Andrew Strain – trombone
>>61538117
>>61538243
>>61538352
>meme instrument
I think mu is beyond saving
>>61538389
>thinking newsom plays harp for it's image and not sonic qualities
>>61540304
I don't have time to reply to every point, so I'm going to cherry-pick 3 points:
>Annie's voice grates on me heavily. She sings with a pleasant timbre but imbues her vocal delivery with some kind of faux-sensuality or melodrama that sounds extremely contrived. She sounds like Marilyn Monroe singing "Happy Birthday Mr. President" in almost every song.
Too bad her voice has this effect on you. But that's a weird criticism coming from a Newsom fan.
>Name a single St Vincent song with a melody as good as the vocal melody in "You and Me, Bess"
"You and Me, Bess" is such a boring song. I don't know if you manage to stay asleep while listening to it.
I have tons of examples and it's hard to pick just one. I'd say "Cruel" has an amazing melody, very catchy and memorable (pay attention to that little guitar solo): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4sQkx8giymc
Also "Actor Out of Work" is basically flawless: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AZW9NYX6JZA
Same for "Marrow": https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-9prpAv6kvo
A perfect balance between noise and sweetness.
>Name a single St Vincent song that's as well-written as "No Provenance".
Again, hard to choose. Let's say "Your Lips Are Red": https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=whxF0KhBR84
Diverse, eclectic and a gorgeous ending.
>>61540490
You can see how many instruments Annie can play. A real talent.
>>61540304
>And so, with the courage of a clown, or a cur, or a kite jerking tight at its tether
>In her dun-brown gown of fur and her jerkin of swansdown and leather
>Bear would sway on her hind legs, the organ would grind dregs of song, for the pleasure
>Of the children who'd shriek, throwing coins at her feet then recoiling in terror
These lyrics seem almost random. They sound like they were lifted from a very old adventure book or something. Not my cup of tea.
>>61534946
>So-so pop music is better than Joanna Newsom
>>61540878
>They sound like they were lifted from a very old adventure book or something
i'm a different anon, but I like this quality. It adds to the fantasy feeling that this album has and I really love that.
>>61540939
>dismissing st. annie's music as just "so-so pop"
"gg"
>>61534917
Can You Link me a good Track from her Senpai ?
>>61540939
>newsom is not pop
ebin
>>61541523
Joanna Newsom is more pop than St. Vincent. That soft / mellow music is ambient compared to some noisy parts of St. Vincent' songs. It's no wonder Annie collaborated with Swans.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fX7WEzJuUiE
>>61534917
Can anyone else's ass in the last decade compare to Joanna's excellence?
>>61540737
>But that's a weird criticism coming from a Newsom fan.
Why? Joanna's voice doesn't sound like this at all.
>"You and Me, Bess" is such a boring song.
How can you call a song with such dense chromaticism "boring"? What about it bores you, exactly?
>I'd say "Cruel" has an amazing melody
The intro/chorus/bridge melody is nice, but the melody in the verses is pretty forgettable. Diatonic, simple stepwise motion, accented notes are all chord tones until the chord change to the IV. The guitar solo is almost exactly the same as the intro melody btw.
>Also "Actor Out of Work" is basically flawless
This is alright. Pretty repetitive, though and still nowhere near "You and Me, Bess".
>Same for "Marrow"
Also completely diatonic. Again, it's alright but I don't see what's so interesting about it.
>"Your Lips Are Red"
This is one of my favourite St. Vincent songs, but it's basically a weak TVU/Faust imitation that's redeemed by the presence of Mike Garson and, to a lesser extent, Daniel Hart. It's not really fair to compare this to "No Provenance" since they have such drastically different styles of writing. Can you pick something else?
>>61540878
>These lyrics seem almost random.
I gather your brain isn't very good at pattern recognition. Either way, I'd easily sacrifice clarity of thought for aesthetic beauty.
>>61541523
>conflating popular music and pop music
The majority of Newsom's output is not pop.
>>61541625
You don't seem to know what pop music actually is. Protip: being "noisy" or "accessible" has nothing to do with it.
Also, if that was supposed to be an example of one of St. Vincents "noisy" songs, you need to listen to more music. That was literally just a boring punk song with a lot of distortion. The arrangements in "Kingfisher" are more difficult than that.
>>61541806
>popular music is different to pop music
help
>>61541861
Popular music = music for commercial consumption, as opposed to traditional or art music
Pop music = music that follows pop song formats codified by American composers in the mid-1900s
Glad to. :^)
>>61541656
>How can you call a song with such dense chromaticism "boring"? What about it bores you, exactly?
It's so boring. Nothing really exciting happens and it just exists. No energy. And that "lalalala" singing is just lazy songwriting.
Sorry, but just can't see the appeal of Newsom's music. It's just so uneventful and almost puts me to sleep (I like ambient music, by the way).
>The intro/chorus/bridge melody is nice, but the melody in the verses is pretty forgettable. Diatonic, simple stepwise motion, accented notes are all chord tones until the chord change to the IV. The guitar solo is almost exactly the same as the intro melody btw.
You're overanalyze everything and miss the main point: music should be enjoyable. Probably you're a music critic.
The melody on the verses is very memorable. Especially this part "Bodies, can't you see what everybody wants from you?" is beautifully sang.
Check two more songs:
>Just the Same But Brand New
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B1LHX5chlH0
>The Strangers
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7uTAk58YJXI
The first one is an interesting tune that starts slow and it evolves in a very nice way. The second one is a highlight of her discography.
>>61541806
>Krokodil
>boring song
Seriously?
This one is boring too? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SIL6dN1GR8Y
wow i was hoping to get some singer/songwriter recs in this thread but it's just 2 waifufags slapfighting
nice job
>>61541806
Speaking of Kingfisher: what's so difficult about it except her annoying voice? It's just an overlong pretentious old-sounding song. Nothing sticks to mind.
I can't believe people take seriously this childish music. They talk nonstop about arrangements like only arrangements make a great song.
>>61542096
>6 pics in the whole thread
>waifufags
Are you a troll or a retard?
>>61542063
>Seriously?
Yes seriously. It's literally on par with fucking Blink-182.
>This one is boring too?
This one is alright but I don't think I would ever choose to listen to it. It sounds like a parody of Swans, and I don't especially like Swans.
>>61542242
You just don't get these songs
>>61542096
Try Jenny Hval, Julia Holter, the list goes on...
>>61542192
>Speaking of Kingfisher: what's so difficult about it except her annoying voice?
If you actually listen to the arrangement at around 2:23 it sounds pretty unusual, the way each instrument is just playing a clipped, syncopated stab or short phrase one after another in succession, there's also two or three layers of contrapuntal melody, and different instruments poking in and out over each other so the overall musical texture changes a number of times in quite a short timespan. I imagine it would be pretty hard for a non-musician to get their head around. Certainly more difficult than "Krokodil", at any rate.
>overlong
>pretentious
>old-sounding
>childish
Using as many buzzwords as you can thing of won't magically make you right, anon.
>Nothing sticks to mind.
How about the vocal melody in the penultimate stanza? The chord progression seems to be in D mixolydian while the melody uses E dorian and it creates some really nice interactions between the melody and the chord tones. I'm not sure it counts as actual polytonality but it's a really great effect.
>They talk nonstop about arrangements like only arrangements make a great song.
>ctrl-f 'arrangements'
>3 results
>2 of them are you
Hmm...
The best thing about Newsom's music is her songwriting, not the arrangements.
>>61542374
lol
If this thread has taught me one thing, it's that most St. Vincent fans are obnoxious, incorrigible morons with the musical knowledge and vocabulary of a 15-year-old, and they aren't really worth discussing music with on any level.
I'm going to bed, this is boring.
>>61542661
Go to bed, you're boring and snob.
The sad thing is that this isn't even the most pretentious waifu thread so far this year
>>61539744
You seem to have left out El-P
>>61540185
Anita Sarkeesian
