Listening to 'Body and Soul' - Thelonious Monk
Some weird kinda noise in the background sounds kinda like people talking intermittently, very subdued.
Anyone know what this is? inb4 live recording, it's not, thanks.
its Jazz m8 probably just the players chatting
>>61366870
That makes sense.
I'm not positive about "Body and Soul" but I do know that Monk and his bros would just get real fucked up in a loft somewhere and record for hours. Any noises in the background are probably coming from friends just hanging out and being high.
>>61366903
This is recorded in a studio, so this almost definitely untrue. Also the fact that none of those recordings ever showed up makes that sound like bullshit. They probably jammed and rehearsed for hours, but not recorded.
The sound is probably the players communicating or simply muttering/groaning etc. to themselves as they play.
>>61366887
yeah idk how experienced with Jazz you are but people often just cut the shit while others are playing
Keith Jarrett is memelord supreme with this (during his own solos)
>>61367020
Not very desu, is he worth checking out?
>>61366985
Well it's not bullshit since I've heard the recordings. It was in an art museum though, so I'm not sure if it was part of some private collection or whatever. Also, things being recorded in studios doesn't mean their silly friends won't be standing around talking and fucking around.
>>61367214
keith jarrett is arguably the best pianist since Bill Evans
>>61367214
There are many much more interesting pianists out there. Personally I find his groaning like an epileptic during his solos unlistenable.
>>61367290
It's annoying for sure, but it's not some random groaning. He's pretty much always singing the lines he's playing as he plays them, it's just that he sings like a muppet getting ass raped.
>>61367283
This is nice stuff, thnx for recommendation
>>61367290
like who?
>>61367382
check out Koln Concert and Changeless too
>>61367279
>being recorded in studios doesn't mean their silly friends won't be standing around talking and fucking around.
It pretty much does, these are professional musicians working, not rappers messing around. And even if those recordings exist in a museum somewhere, they wouldn't be candidates for a major label release, and Monk's first on Columbia.
>>61367342
In a way I find that worse because it makes it harder to block out.
>>61367404
Will do senpai
>>61367430
are you going to name the better pianists?
>>61367518
Is it a competition? If you like Monk you could listen to Bud Powell, Mal Waldron, Elmo Hope
I hate people who say "x isn't that good" but then cant name who's better.
>>61367554
See >>61367552
I don't know what you're so bothered about.
>>61367552
what makes them better than Jarrett?
>>61367593
I just don't know how you can call as multifaceted an artist and creative an improviser as Jarrett "meh"
>>61367643
I said more interesting, jazz isn't fucking tennis or something.
>>61367659
He might be a skilled player, but I've never heard anything by him that I found more than passable compared to the others I mentioned. I'll never understand why he has so many dickriding fanboys.
>>61367430
>these are professional musicians working
I don't think that means what you think it means
>>61367715
In Columbia Studios in 1962, do you think there were 50 people partying and sniffing coke off the mixing desk?
The musicians would show up, rehearse, record and leave.
>>61367430
>these are professional musicians working
when you listen to "the shape of jazz to come", or dolphy's stuff, you can hear people shouting out when someone does something impressive
>>61367749
Those are invariably the musicians themselves, not random negroes let in so they could have a party.
>>61367693
>I'll never understand why he has so many dickriding fanboys.
maybe because he consistently makes 30 minute improvisations that are as organized and intelligent as much shorter solis, and his excellence in all disciplines and styles
>>61367715
No - but I don't think it's completely far-fetched to imagine that the musicians and a couple friends or even the engineer(s) and producer(s) could be hanging out in the studio because they're buddies. Musicians, and especially some jazz musicians, aren't exactly the most straight-edged people out there.
>>61367770
I thought you were implying that the musicians themselves wouldn't chatter, we got our signal crossed. Yeah, it would only be the musicians, I agree
>>61367782
It's possible, but it doesn't make sense they would let anyone in extraneous to the session, and audio engineers and producers would know better than to shout stuff out.
Obviously the musicians weren't straight-edged, but this is a time where musicians still needed cabaret cards to perform, and could (and often did) have them revoked because of drugs. They would know better than to bring that stuff into the studio with them.
>>61367772
I guess he has quite a following with academics and jazz purists.
>>61367792
>Yeah, it would only be the musicians, I agree
Right, I didn't realise that's what you meant. Still, the whole drugs-and-party-in-the-studio thing was unheard of in 1962.
>>61367214
>Is he worth checking out?
Köln Concert is fucking god-tier.
>>61367843
yeah people with good taste and an education like him
still haven't explained what makes your pianists better
>>61366844
this is notable on which songs? throughout the whole album?
>>61367892
Academia and regressive thinkers like Jarrett and Wynton Marsalis are what killed jazz, essentially.
I don't need to explain why they're better because a) I said more interesting, not better, and b) music isn't some autistic skill competition.
>>61366844
Now that you mention it, I do kind of hear a little bit of studio noise on the album
I agree that it's most likely the players communicating during the songs; you hear this a bit on some Mingus, and of course, Jarret albums
I honestly really enjoy a little bit of player talk in the background, especially because I feel that it enhances the intensity and the passion they're putting into the performance. That's probably bullshit but that's just how I feel
>>61367915
Wynton I get but no fucking way did Jarrett kill Jazz
i mean seriously this guy is the king of unsubstantiated shitty jazz opinions
>>61367214
Jarrett is a bit of an asshole and I hate his groaning that sounds like you left some porn running on another tab, but his music is certainly worth checking out, especially from the 70s
>>61368092
Who? Jarrett?
>>61367969
He helped turn an expressive form of music into a shrewd, intellectualised 'art form'.
>>61368244
>Who? Jarrett?
You.
That's not what wynton did and if you're going to claim that Jarrett is not expressive and free in his playing then you might as well stop listening to Jazz.
>>61368390
Of course that's what Wynton did, he popularised the emulation of dead styles, had outspoken views about electronic instruments, and jazz as an academic form. His "improvising" sounds rote and devoid of creativity.
Even if you think Jarrett's music is more expressive, he's a self-styled diva prodigy who treats jazz like a shrewd intellectual pursuit for the elite.
I'm ok with disliking this stuff with actual reasoning but I'm just getting bullshit
>>61368652
Saying "your views are wrong" multiple times isn't an argument.
>>61368649
>His "improvising" sounds rote and devoid of creativity
so unlike Jarrett?
Jarrett dissed electronic instruments "you just have fun with them" but never said modern is shit, go back to Ellington
You're making a reckless unreasoned opinion
>>61368708
I wasn't saying the same thing about both musicians. You said Wynton didn't contribute to the decline of jazz, I explained why he did.
What the two have in common is a predilection for pretentiousness, shrewdness and academia.
>>61368801
Then your justification for Jarrett is weakly made. You might as well claim Ellington and Davis killed Jazz too if any artfulness is bad.
Like just read the writeup on the inside of Bitches Brew and tell me Davis didn't take it seriously
>>61368934
>>61369083
You could actually make an argument for Davis' later work killing jazz, because it inspired the separatism and regression that Marsalis championed, but Ellington was instrumental in its creation and popularisation so that's moot.
>>61369234
...but what about Keith???!!!
>>61369464
"I am, and have been, carrying on an anti-electric-music crusade of which this is an exhibit for the prosecution. Electricity goes through all of us and is not to be relegated to wires." He has largely eschewed electric or electronic instruments since his time with Miles Davis.
>>61370060
who gives a shit modern jazz isn't just electronic instruments i already said that he didn't like them you idiot
Dissing electronic instruments != go back to Ellington
>>61370122
You asked why that was relevant to Keith and I showed you.
>>61370165
Through his "crusade" he's just reinforcing the pretentious and regressiveness that have prevented major developments in the music over the last decades.
>>61370474
>Through his "crusade" he's just reinforcing the pretentious and regressiveness that have prevented major developments in the music over the last decades.
electronic instruments are not major developments.
>>61370623
But the general "new is bad" mentality that goes along with that prevents major developments.
>>61370719
he still didn't kill jazz
>>61370719
like youre ridiculously hyperbolizing his beliefs
>>61370957
>>61370993
Obviously not, I'm saying he's part of a mentality that contribute to the decline of jazz. You're just hyperbolising my argument.
>>61366844
The chatter is really obvious when listening with headphones.
It wasn't the first take of Body and Soul recorded in those sessions (as take 1 appears as a CD bonus track), and the first doesn't have as clear background chatter so maybe at that point they thought that the first take would be the one and everyone was more relaxed.
Anyone have an old vinyl release? Could be something that's only audible on a modern remaster.
>>61371256
Nowhere did I say "Keith Jarrett killed jazz".
I said his kind of thinking/attitude is what killed jazz, hence the other example.
>>61371363
I still think your conflating him with Wynton Marsalis is really stupid.
