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You are currently reading a thread in /mu/ - Music
You are currently reading a thread in /mu/ - Music
sup
nm just posting an album arbitrarily acclaimed by journalists while ignoring the amazing music that came out of the exact same movement because i'm a pleb
o wait8 that's you
>>61272274
this nigga mad lmao
>>61272274
i've heard almost every no wave release that's been added to rym and DNA on DNA is one of the best
kill yourself tripfag
I need a 320 download for this OP
>>61272370
if you think that the term no-wave is applied to every album in the late 70s early 80s NYC experimental music scene you're a fucking idiot who needs to do less RYM-whoring and more thinking/reading/researching (yes actual research)
>>61272521
You should drop the tripcode because tripfags circlejerk usually over this shit
>>61272370
not him but dna on dna isnt even in the top 10 no wave albums
good album though
>>61272521
what the fuck are you even on about
>>61273643
well there was a huge movement in the late 70s in New York City where some of the most creative and talented musicians of the past 40 years got together, and of course there were lazy and ignorant journalists who only wrote about the bands who their Sex Pistols-derrived vocabulary could describe. And they called it no-wave.
And because people on here are dumb they latch onto the term and circlejerk on these bands while ignoring all the incredible musicians who were right there actually making history and it really pisses me off because you guys are so close to listening to Zeena Parkins and Eugene Chadbourne and Bill Laswell or Tom Cora or Wayne Horvitz but instead you freak out about the few /mu/-approved bands from the scene that you've heard of. It's pathetic :(
>>61273686
free improvisation and the "downtown music" scene has very little to do with noise/punk rock that has been labeled as part of the "no wave" scene. lumping it all together just because it's from the same place and time and """experimental""" is pure idiocy, and what's worse is that you're mistaking it for the opposite.
zeena parkins, chadbourne, and laswell are all mediocre, by the way. cora is good. i've not heard the solo work of horvitz.
>>61273686
If they were "freaking out" about the other artists you would get tired of them "freaking out" about it as well.
>>61273686
>>61273703
i also want to clarify that genres are descriptive rather than prescriptive, but "no wave" is a phrase used as both a scene and a genre. it's a scene, which of course had overlap with other scenes related to radical music in new york, but it had distinct characteristics that made it separate. there is very little sonically (or ideologically) in common between DNA and Eugene Chadbourne. the fact that members of DNA have collaborated with people associated with free improvisation scenes doesn't change the fact that there were multiple separate threads of musical lineage happening simultaneously. it's fundamentally useful to distinguish things with phrases like "no wave." don't let your elitism get in the way of realizing that.
>>61273703
the arbitrary division between the noise/punk rock of the scene and the "downtown music" is the issue. the entire scene is incestuous as fuck and it's only because of shoddy punk-rock journalism that people like you imagine a divide.
Arto Lindsay was playing with DNA and with the Luries, who were playing with Marc Ribot and Curtis Fowlkes, and with the Golden Palominos with Bill Laswell and Fred Frith
Johnathan Kane was in Swans while playing with Elliott Sharp, Lydia Lunch was playing with Robert Quine who played with Richard Hell and John Zorn, I could go on and on.
It's so arbitrary to cut off the groups whos music sounds more like rock than the others and say it's something different. It's not. If you read for half a second what influenced the "punk bands", you'd realize it's very similar to what was influencing the "free improv" groups, the only difference is what the journalists talked about.
>>61273781
>there is very little sonically (or ideologically) in common between DNA and Eugene Chadbourne
there's very little in common between the Contortions and Swans. There's very little in common between Material and Zorn's Archery. There's very little in common between Shockabilly and the Lounge Lizards.
I can't see what purpose isolating a few groups who had a marginal deal of sonic overlap and rejecting the rest would have other than fashioning a much simpler and easier to relay history (albeit one that does not represent reality slightly as easily)
it's not limited to the fact that they collaborated, it's that we've reduced the obvious examples of musicians bridging the artificial gap as collaborations, as side projects. OMG Arto Lindsay the no-wave guy actually did a project with musicians who only play free jazz? that's so cool because he doesn't play jazz, he plays no-wave!
>>61273752
yeah because i get tired of people "freaking out" about Bob Dylan or M.F. DOOM or Tom Waits or whatever groundbreaking and genius musicians /mu/ happens to like through pure chance
>>61273808
by that logic, you would erase the distinctions between bebop and cool jazz simply because miles davis played with charlie parker and dizzy gillespie.
it's fucking new york and they're radical musicians; they're probably going to collaborate. it's the same reason harsh noise artists and slightly quirky pop/folk artists in japan constantly collaborate. they live close to each other, are interested in collaboration, and have nothing to hold back. a lot of them would collaborate with just about any musician approached them.
however like i said, phrases ("genres," "scenes") are useful to distinguish different threads of musical lineage. otherwise everything is a big fucking mess.
people on /mu/ who want to hear something like DNA might be interested in hearing Sonic Youth's early work--it's noise rock and punk rock that seems to share an ideology. but they're not going to want to hear Polly Bradfield or John Zorn or something even further removed, and the fact that Ikue Mori played with Zorn doesn't change that.
>>61273859
they're labeled "no wave" because they play noise rock or are punk-influenced.
lounge lizards are not "no wave."
it's more than "sonic overlap" when one thing is rock music and the other is free improvisation. lumping it all together is not useful in the slightest bit.
i feel like this is the case of seeing genres overlap and co-develop and taking it as evidence to remove them entirely. music, especially in a city environment, isn't going to be purist at all. genre and scene labels only serve to sort out the mess.
>>61273931
>you would erase the distinctions between bebop and cool jazz
the difference is that a founding ethos between both sides of the 'line' is a rejection of genre, form, precedent etc. I guess I should have mentioned that earlier because that's a huge element to this. Neither the rock side nor the "free improvisation" side has any kind of particular obligation to their own side. Unless you really think that the Golden Paliminos or Shockabilly or Material or the Ambitious Lovers or Bongwater or so on are not rock music, or that they don't have intense musical similarities with the "no-wave" bands and wouldn't be an obvious connection in sound.
>lumping it all together is not useful in the slightest bit
lumping it together only becomes a probem when people use classification as their vehicle to exploration rather than identifying and researching music based on their own sensory reactions. Lumping it all together as the "NYC experimental music scene" would actually be incredibly useful because someone would hear early Sonic Youth and say wow it's really neat how this band uses extended guitar techniques, and I see that they have connections with these other guitarists who do similar things. I wonder what they did to their guitars, and what comprehensive factors led to this interest in playing the electric guitar in new ways. Instead it's "these guys do messy punk and these guys do messy punk, time to see what messy punk I like the best!"
The idea that you're grouping all non-punk music in NYC as free improv is absurd. There was experimental punk and experimental jazz and experimental funk and experimental classical and experimental folk and experimental prog and experimental disco and almost every artist we've mentioned so far has been heavily invested in more than one of those concepts and totally alien to the other ones. The idea that we should lump together any permutation that involves punk music is fucking absurd.
>>61273931
the idea isn't that people go straight from DNA to Zorn. They could listen to DNA and then listen to the Contortions, go "wow, I like that funk!" then listen to the Golden Palominos and then say "hey I like the big weird melting pot" and get into Material, then go "wow some of those solos are really fascinating, i didn't know people could play their instruments that way" and get into Fred Frith's music. But instead they hit a brick wall once the well of "no-wave" runs out and reject everything fucking else.
And yeah, that's bridging on commentary of general human nature, but the term really bothers me because it's a piece of anti-history, it's an idea that actively encourages people to ignore any sort of larger picture.
>>61274049
>Neither the rock side nor the "free improvisation" side has any kind of particular obligation to their own side.
so, you agree with me, then? they obviously don't, but those "sides" do in fact exist. and those sides are labeled for convenience. one trend with many common characteristics is known as "no wave," and while musicians who have worked under that label may or may not have gone on to work under other labels, different lines of genre-expansion/subversion exist. no wave was concerned with rock music, which is the largest reason to distinguish it.
it shouldn't be surprising to you that people who want to listen to rock music find the phrase "no wave" useful.
unfortunately, the fantasy world in which people will dive into non-idiomatic improvised music just because they heard some "extended guitar techniques" in rock music does not exist.
not to put words in your mouth, but someone following your advice mind wind up listening to Derek Baily because they liked Sonic Youth--regardless of their knowledge of improvised music (or free jazz, or jazz, or that entire lineage), which would be totally ridiculous.
there is nothing wrong with looking for punk music with certain characteristics if that's what you want to hear. and that's what people do. i think you're bothered by the fact that people do in fact want to do this, rather than the usefulness of the vehicles they use.
>grouping all non-punk music in NYC as free improv
i'm not doing this. i'm using free improv as an example of downtown music that has almost nothing to do with punk rock.
>>61274072
that would be using the intermingling of artists involved with genres as gateways between their music (and the different genres by extension). that's a perfectly good thing. naming their respective genres or classifying what each thing is most closely related to doesn't make doing that impossible, or even necessarily discourage it.
it's because genre classification is so useful and easy that it also encourages laziness (or ignoring the bigger picture.) but it's useful and easy because it does in fact group the most similar music.
>>61274072
btw, i think i know you irl. sam?
>>61274221
yes my name is sam... who is this???
getting very discouraged from shitposting now
eerie as fuck m8
you literally spooked the shit out of me
hahaha
>>61274271
i fucking knew it, you go to UW right???? LOL
>>61274271
is the reason we don't hang out because you saw me wearing a DNA on DNA t-shirt?
>>61274276
yeah who the fuck is this what the fuck yes i go to the prestigious university of washington and i have curly dark hair and a weird vocal cadence who is this hahahaa this is mad creepy
>>61274299
the bone of her hand....
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VgksSwW5f9o
>>61274293
i've never seen anyone wearing a DNA t-shirt in real life! ever! or any NYC experimental music t-shirt. this is cute this is like OK Cupid!
honestly if i don't get an explanation i might never go to sleep again i'm wracking my brain trying to figure out what's going on
could tripfagging on /mu/ be an inside job?
>>61274299
The fact that someone recognized you based off real-life experience is proof of how autistic you act outside of 4chan. Literally kill yourself Sam.
>>61274299
bruh who do you think? does your what.cd account still work because i just got deactivated for trying to use a torrent client that wasn't whitelisted
>>61274328
Or they know what kinds of things I'm passionate about?
>brb gotta kill myself because someone recognized my interest in experimental music from new york city
>>61274338
well i never knew you were passionate about arguing on 4chan at 2AM
>>61274331
oh ahahaha hey man what's up that's funny no the reason we don't hang is that we did once and i was like wanna get lunch and you never said shit
i downloaded some stuff from what and no one ever downloaded any of my seeded stuff and got really noided and afraid to download other things nd fuck my ratio up more so now I'm just seeding like eight albums all the time begging for someone to download them
luckily i've found just about everything on soulseek ever.
okay i actually didn't consider that it was you, i was like, that one autistic guy from hs music theory cass i've been trying to avoid, who tripfags on /lit/? that guy i met at summer camp in 10th grade? etc.
>>61274354
i'm actually in Texas right now, IT'S 4:30AM hahahah but it's okay because my mom is an alcoholic so I can get really drunk here and she doesn't notice that her booze is gone cause she can't keep track of it!
>>61274371
well, merry christmas. lel
now i know you think i have shit taste in jazz if you actually looked at my rym ratings. sorry i can't help it
>>61274386
i did not look at your ratings because i have a life and am too busy having sex with many beautiful women on a big pile of money. i'd be happy to give you some jazz recommendations but only if you can tell me some sweet eastern-euro happy hardcore comps to pick up
>>61274371
>>61274380
damn....
>>61274404
i pretty much only listen to singles for that. i'm not so far gone that i'd listen to more than a couple happy hardcore tracks in a row
>>61274439
post the funniest image you have on your computer
>>61274463
>>61274488
funnier than mine. i'm going to text you now because this is probably annoying the F8**CK out of people on this board who are just trying to talk about Grimes and Kanye West's album art without us getting in the way
lol this thread is cute
dna is avantgarde as fuck o_O
>>61272521
>>61272274
>>61273686
>>61273808
>>61273859
>>61274049
>>61274072
If you don't think that DNA on DNA is one of the best album to come out of the core No-Wave scene, you're the one in the wrong here.
sup
