Find a flaw with Scaruffi's top 20 jazz albums list.
>>61210260
https://factorysunburst.wordpress.com/2015/02/03/scaruffi-on-jazz/
>>61210299
/thread
>Mingus
>Coltrane
>Ayler
>Sun Ra
>Taylor
>Coleman
>Don Cherry
>Carla Bley
>Anthony Braxton
>Art Ensemble of Chicago
>Eric Dolphy
>Lennie Tristano
>Thelonious Monk
>Charlie Haden
>Tim Berne
*holds up spork*
>4.Sun Ra-Atlantis
lol that's when I stopped taking this list seriously
>>61210299
#rekt
in all honesty though most of scaruffi's opinions on objectively popular and influential musicians (beatles, elvis etc...) can easily be torn apart like this
>No Louis Armstrong
what a pleb
>>61210260
actually quite a bit in that he clearly favors radical 60s stuff/stuff directly tangential to radical 60s jazz over the stuff that he would find regressive or "safe" even if that "safe" stuff is played by some of the best players of all time. I doubt he listens to many of these albums often because more than a few of them are real hard on the ears. I find it interesting that his top rock album is pretty well balanced between stuff on the mainstream (Springsteen, Doors, Dylan, Van Morrison) whereas this is pretty much all skewed to the free side (apart from Kind of Blue and Brilliant Corners)
I don't think he really understands jazz and is listening to it as some kind of sonic art rather than musical improvisation
>>61210299
>This is going into crazy-land, now. It seems as if Scaruffi doesn’t realise that jazz musicians improvise — or if he does, he doesn’t consider it a very important fact about their music, when it’s only the whole point of jazz. Without improvisation, jazz is unthinkable, but Scaruffi appears to have little understanding of what improvisation even is, let alone how it forms the lifeblood of jazz. Without improvisation, there is no jazz.
Stopped reading there. This guy is just as much of an idiot as Scaruffi. Not to say that improvisation can't be good, but to say it's "the whole POINT oj jazz" fucking asinine. A shame because up until that point he was wrecking Scaruffi.
>>61210447
>find a flaw
>replies with "actually quite a bit"
uh
>>61210474
sorry i'm at my parent's house over break and my mom's an alcoholic so the place is loaded with booze so i've been drunk for like three days straight so excuse me for dumb stuff and treat me like i am a transexual woman of color who can do no wrong
A Love Supreme should be #1
>>61210331
Pleb. I bet you find Trout Mask Replica inaccessible also.
>>61210524
>pleb for not liking Sun Ra
hahahahahahahahahhahahahah get some taste in jazz boiiiii
>>61210572
Atlantis is good
>Find a flaw with Scaruffi's
done
![R-2462298-1285419537.png[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/8A81Oiz.jpg "R-2462298-1285419537.png[1].jpg")
>>61210584
'no'
>>61210524
I bet you can't even explain to me what makes it good, let alone the 4th greatest jazz album of all time, without resorting to calling me silly names.
>>61210524
to be honest it sounds like you only like it because you're afraid you'll be called a pleb otherwise
>>61210328
lol
>>61213025
thank you for replying to my post
>>61210470
lol what's your background in Jazz?
>Scaruffi uses technical terminology the way my seven-year-old daughter uses big words she doesn’t really understand; she throws them in there with more hope than certainty, because she wants to sound more grown-up. In her, it’s cute and I love it. In a grown man pretending to have things to say about music, I find it embarrassing.
thank God someone else is saying it
>>61213536
Doesn't he write them in Itallian and have someone else translate? I'm sure that effects how it comes across.
>>61213349
Something simply being an integral part of something doesn't mean that it's a good thing. If you're listening to some music does it matter how it was made? A lot of black metal is lo-fi but it's still fair to have problems with that. I can't see why jazz can be alright when it's happening right there next to you, but for home listening why not just listen to classical?
>>61213909
>Something simply being an integral part of something doesn't mean that it's a good thing. If you're listening to some music does it matter how it was made? A lot of black metal is lo-fi but it's still fair to have problems with that. I can't see why jazz can be alright when it's happening right there next to you, but for home listening why not just listen to classical?
hm nothing about your background in Jazz (or any music really)
>>61213973
so you're saying there's more to music than just the music itself? nothing matters aside from the final product. isn't music subjective in the end?
>Bitches Brew instead of On the Corner
Pleb as fuck desu
>>61214002
just asking if you have any actual credentials in the genre to back up your statements or if you're just mindlessly memeing to backup "muh idol"
>>61210260
he overrated that piece of garbage coltrane album like every critic
>>61214022
i don't even read Scaruffi. and isn't the point in being anonymous that our arguments are judged on themselves and not who wrote them?
>>61210260
>no Alice Coltrane
>Bitches Brew better than On the Corner or Live/Evil
>no Sanders
>no Orgy in Rhythm
pleb as fuck
>>61214111
just reply "yes" or "no"
do you have experience in professional jazz performing and/or study?
>>61210299
blah blah opinions on opinions
>>61214182
yes.
do you?
>>61214217
I have studied Jazz but not professionally, more as an enthusiast. I'm a classical musician.
If you're sincerely a Jazz professional (dicey since you continually avoided my questioning) then I'll leave you be.
>>61210260
>find a flaw
>implying there's only one thing wrong with that list
>>61214293
i'm not even the original guy you asked though. if i may though. why did you want to know if i or that anon did have any experience in professional jazz performing and/or study? I don't understand
>>61210500
>ugh wow SJWs just bring race and gender into everything they are the worst
>pc gone too far
>>61214002
/mu/ has a lot of trouble with jazz (and much of classical) for the exact reason that what you're saying does not apply to anything but pop music and no one who is informed would ever agree with you.
the technical and personally musical aspects of jazz (post-bebop of course) are OVERWHELMINGLY more important than the final auditory product. That's why bebop was a revolution in music-making.
>>61214016
those two albums sound nothing alike
>acclaimed davis album instead of other random davis album that i happen to enjoy
grow the fuck up
>>61214063
it's not garbage, just overrated to the moon and back, especially considering how fucking good Coltrane's earlier stuff is desu.
>>61214155
>complaining about lack of Alice Coltrane
>complaining about lack of Pharaoh Sanders
you actually have terrible taste in jazz music
>>61214360
i think it's different considering that this place is on high MGS alert for SJW and i wouldn't ever bring that up irl but this is clearly not a thread ripe with meaningful discussion so i can say funny things like nigg*
>>61214356
>if i may though. why did you want to know if i or that anon did have any experience in professional jazz performing and/or study?
Here's his original post: >>61210470
He's positing that HE knows better than the writer of the post, which implies he should have background or studied knowledge of Jazz. If this is not the case, he's pretentious at best and childish at worst.
>>61214757
i think that getting too worked up about people's credentials on this horrible shitty wreck of an imageboard is kind of a waste desu
>>61214853
I only make sure in Jazz and Classical discussions.
People see them as a ticket to patrician-town without trying.
>>61214717
>the technical and personally musical aspects of jazz (post-bebop of course) are OVERWHELMINGLY more important than the final auditory product
I'm sorry I really don't understand. why does this matter when it comes to reviewing an album or listening to it at home?
>>61214926
well because that's the foundation of the music and it makes more sense for me personally to understand the intent, structure, conventions, history, developments, personalities, and overall individual intricacies of an art form rather than lumping all works of art together by medium alone and "enjoying" them that way. it's why you read a poem very differently than investigative journalism, because while they are both based in text, they require a drastically different set of skills to appreciate
>>61214717
>b-but its the technicality and improvisation and influence that really matters, not the actual music!
jazz fans are quite something
>>61210260
WRONG MINGUS ALBUM AT #1
>>61215043
hard for you to wrap your brain around music that can't be understood through a pop vocabulary, i see.
Where the fuck is Kamasi? Where the fuck is The Epic? TPAB? FlyLo? Fuck this shitty list and fuck whoever loves it. Headbutt em.
>>61214717
>b-but its the technicality and improvisation and influence that really matters, not the actual music!
>you need to be qualified in music theory to understand p-pleb!
jazz fans are quite something
>>61215063
what is pop music?
>>61210260
Don't give a shit about jazz lists.
P.good flaw
>>61215099
i never said you had to be qualified in anything, just good at paying attention and wrapping your head around artistic abstractions
>>61215142
in this case, music in which the purely auditory final product is all that matters. there are tons of definitions depending on the discussion, but that's the relevant one here.
>>61210299
>You can tell as much from his list of the essential classical compositions: it’s so predictable, it could be a playlist for Classic FM.
eh, i mostly agree with him on everything else, but i don't have a problem with this. i'm actually surprised that scaruffi didn't go all edgy and subversive like he does everything else and stuck with standardized choices. safe and predictable? sure, but there's good reason that these compositions the oft listed and acclaimed pieces. sometimes i laugh at the people on /mu/ who try to list off the most obscure, ""patrician"" compositions possible, even though classical is a whole different ballgame than popular music.
>listening to Jazz
How does it feel to be the living embodiment of white guilt
>>61215440
many of the best jazz musicians of all time are and have been white
>>61210328
Bad.
It's actually a solid list
