Is R&B a dead genre? Does anyone actually make R&B anymore?
These days, R&B = Black Man Singing.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WsPfSXJaelk
This is considered an R&B song these days. Why?
Weeknd
Well, almost all modern (and especially popular music) is R&B now.
nowhere else to go after this tbqhhh
>>61201609
Like who
>>61201618
Tell me who isn't?
>>61201618
>These days, R&B = Black Man Singing.
Wasn't it always mostly that?
>>61201631
Taylor Swift, Bieber, One Direction, Selena Gomez, Ariana Grande, every popular rapper, Sam Smith, etc etc etc
>These days, R&B = Black Man Singing.
nigga are you stupid or something?
just you wait
>>61201662
>Bieber
>Not R&B
what the fuck dude
>>61201684
What can you expect from /mu/?
>>61201662
>Taylor Swift, Bieber, One Direction, Selena Gomez, Ariana Grande
All of them Pop that had roots in Rock that had roots in R&B
>every popular rapper, Sam Smith, etc etc etc
Hip Hop had roots in Disco which had roots in R&B
>>61201698
waiting_skeleton.jpg
But your sentiment is correct. Jai is GOAT.
>>61201712
Maybe Journals kinda sorta was but his new album definitely isn't.
>>61201723
Okay but that doesn't make it R&B.
>tfw I keep going through Amy Winehouses's catalog.
We should have saved her.
>>61201723
>all music had roots in banging rocks together, therefore all music is banging rocks together
we need a /b/ style tripfag cleansing
>>61201810
When does a genre that evolved from another genre start being it's own genre?
>>61201828
when it's a different fucking genre, you fucking idiot
>>61201810
>>61201862
Hey y'all I know the trip's being infuriating but he means no harm.
>>61201876
put your tripcode back on you're not fooling anybody
>>61201862
How do you determine that?
That's like saying "why is the earth flat?", and then answering "the earth is flat because it's flat".
>>61201917
Nah mate I'm just doing this so nerds don't sperg out on him
>>61201951
When you can tell it's a different fucking genre.
I can listen to https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H64QG4UsrGI and tell that it's not a fucking rock song.
>>61201662
sam smith is considered r&b. they play him on my (primarily black) local r&b station. his wiki lists him as pop/r&b
>>61201951
progressive rock and math rock both have roots in rock n roll if you trace them back far enough
you can CLEARLY tell when 2 genres are different
this shouldn't be hard to understand
>>61201966
Is Jazz a genre?
Dixieland sounds nothing like European Free Jazz, yet we still consider it to be a genre.
Also, you are doing the
>why is the earth flat?
>the earth is flat because it's flat
thing again
>>61201981
>/mu/ doesn't listen to dvsn
>>61201987
>Dixieland sounds nothing like European Free Jazz, yet we still consider it to be a genre.
you literally just restated my point
>>61201985
>this shouldn't be hard to understand
You are missing my point
Effectively, prog rock and math rock have their roots in rock and roll, but when does it stop being part of the genre to become it's own?
In the case of math rock, you have Yowie and Battles, yet they are almost opposites, yet most people consider them to be of the same genre.
Am I wrong?
>>61202013
Both are Jazz, right?
In the same way, Hip Hop and Pop are R&B
Either both are wrong, or both are right. Unless you give me a reason it shouldn't be like that.
>>61201567
How is this dead if PND, Rammirdz, Bryson Tiller, Miguel & cia is alive???????????????????????///
>>61202031
European Free Jazz isn't really jazz. It's more in line with the academic Western mode of experimental modern classical and free improvisation, but in forms that resemble jazz bands (trios, quintets, similar musical instruments). The similarities stop with the name. Most EFJ musicians will freely admit this.
>>61202143
Just replace EFJ with Free Jazz then.
Are Free Jazz and Dixieland still part of the same Jazz genre?
>>61202031
>>61202031
maybe you just don't understand the concept of a genre, so let me explain it to you using the wonders of Google
gen·re
ˈZHänrə/
noun
noun: genre; plural noun: genres
a category of artistic composition, as in music or literature, characterized by similarities in form, style, or subject matter.
you can tell 2 different genres apart by the differences "form, style, or subject matter."
saying hip hop and pop are both r&b is just dead fucking wrong, that's like saying dramas and comedies are both romance films, you're taking 2 different genres and saying they're the same
dixieland and european free jazz are different genres
hip hop, pop, r&b are different genres
they each have their own characteristics that (should) make them easy to tell apart
>>61201584
This, pretty much. Everyone is biting The Weeknd, especially Drake/OVO.
>>61202218
I do understand.
>that's like saying dramas and comedies are both romance films, you're taking 2 different genres and saying they're the same
That's now that I'm implying.
>dixieland and european free jazz are different genres
What about Swing and Big Band? Are they both not Jazz?
>they each have their own characteristics that (should) make them easy to tell apart
But when is it different enough to be considered another genre?
>>61202238
>What about Swing and Big Band? Are they both not Jazz?
again, math rock and progressive rock are both rock, but they're different genres
>But when is it different enough to be considered another genre?
what, do you want me to give you a fucking algorithm or something? it's art, it all boils down to interpretation. if you don't think swing and big band are different genres, my idea (and probably the general consensus, honestly) says otherwise
>>61202287
>again, math rock and progressive rock are both rock, but they're different genres
I'm not disagreeing.
Math Rock and Prog Rock are both Rock
Dixieland and Free Jazz are both Jazz
Hip Hop and Pop are both R&B
What exactly invalidates the R&B argument that doesn't the Rock and Jazz one?
>what, do you want me to give you a fucking algorithm or something? it's art, it all boils down to interpretation
I consider my interpretation of Hip Hop and Pop being both R&B in the same way Math Rock and Prog Rock are Rock.
>if you don't think swing and big band are different genres
I do think they are, yet at the same time they are both Jazz. Or are you telling me Swing and Big Band are not Jazz?
>>61202343
I think you're oversimplifying genres
Jazz itself, I wouldn't say, is its own genre, it's a generalization of hundreds of sub-genres
but even with that, if you were to tell me that all of these songs are r&b, I would never agree, though I'll give you SOME leeway about r&b and pop, but hip hop? hell fuckin no
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fh6lGI1bOkw
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UKjj4hk0pV4
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zi_XLOBDo_Y
>>61202471
You are missing the point here.
The question is:
Why can we say this?
>Math Rock and Prog Rock are both Rock
>Dixieland and Free Jazz are both Jazz
But not this?
>Hip Hop and Pop are both R&B
>>61202530
because math rock and prog rock both fall into rock
because dixieland and free jazz both fall into jazz
hip hop doesn't fall into r&b because it's just flat out NOT r&b
why stop at pop and hip hop? let's throw in funk, disco, soul, and blues into the mix
are you gonna tell me they're all the same genre because they have similar roots?
it's like what >>61201810 argued, because if you look far enough one could argue that ALL music have the same roots, doesn't mean they're the same genre
>>61202672
>because math rock and prog rock both fall into rock
>because dixieland and free jazz both fall into jazz
Why?
>are you gonna tell me they're all the same genre because they have similar roots?
I'm telling you to be consistent.
Are you really telling me that Dixieland and Free Jazz fit into the same genre just because they have similar roots?
>>61203013
dixieland is a form of jazz, because it has the characteristics, style, and form that would qualify it as jazz
free jazz is a form of jazz, because it has the characteristics, style, and form that would qualify it as jazz
you're trying to tell me that when Mos Def is rapping, that that has the same characteristics, style, and form that R. Kelly has?
that's the fucking difference
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KI0toLOYFww
>>61203054
>it has the characteristics, style, and form that would qualify it as jazz
Can you name those?
>you're trying to tell me that when Mos Def is rapping, that that has the same characteristics, style, and form that R. Kelly has?
You're trying to tell me that when Coleman is soloing that it has the same characteristics, style, and form that Miles Davis has?
That's the fucking difference.
With a year that had Miguel's Wildheart and pic related R&B is definitely not dead
Just because frank ocean didn't come out with an album this year doesn't mean it's dead baka
Wtf is your definition of R&B op I need an example
>>61203086
alright, since you're a legit retard, let's just use Wikipedia
Hip hop music, also called hip-hop[2][3] or rap music,[3][4][5] is a music genre consisting of a stylized rhythmic music that commonly accompanies rapping, a rhythmic and rhyming speech that is chanted.[3] It developed as part of hip hop culture, a subculture defined by four key stylistic elements: MCing/rapping, DJing/scratching, break dancing, and graffiti writing.[6][7][8] Other elements include sampling (or synthesis), and beatboxing.
Rhythm and blues, often abbreviated as R&B or RnB, is a genre of popular African-American music that originated in the 1940s.[1] The term was originally used by record companies to describe recordings marketed predominantly to urban African Americans, at a time when "urbane, rocking, jazz based music with a heavy, insistent beat" was becoming more popular.[2] In the commercial rhythm and blues music typical of the 1950s through the 1970s, the bands usually consisted of piano, one or two guitars, bass, drums, saxophone, and sometimes background vocalists. R&B lyrical themes often encapsulate the African-American experience of pain and the quest for freedom and joy.[3] Lyrics focus heavily on the themes of triumphs and failures in terms of relationships, freedom, economics, aspirations, and sex.
notice how they're not the same? yeah, that's because they're NOT THE SAME
Trevor Jackson got the talent to run the genre and make some fantastic music but he's already become another generic mainstream pop R&B label product.
Kid's got one of the best voices I've ever heard from a teenager.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vc03Zc7DlbI
>>61203157
What about actually answering my questions instead of coping out and copy-pasting a Wikipedia article?
Yes, I know what you are talking about here, but that's not the point. It's obvious Hip Hop and R&B sound different, that's not what I'm disagreeing about you retard.
Read my post again and answer this.
>it has the characteristics, style, and form that would qualify it as jazz
Can you name those?
You're trying to tell me that when Coleman is soloing that it has the same characteristics, style, and form that Miles Davis has?
If you weren't a retard you would be actually to answer those questions, because it's you who made those exact points a post earlier.
>>61203211
>Hip Hop and R&B sound different
gee it's almost like they're not the same genre
>>61203235
>gee it's almost like they're not the same genre
Yeah, just like Dixieland and Free Jazz. How much of retard do you have to be to classify both as Jazz, am I right?
Now go answer the questions above if you are so smart.
Chris Brown. Drake. PARTYNEXTDOOR. The Weeknd. Justin Bieber. Omarion. Usher. R. Kelly.
R&B ain't dead niggas.
>>61203261
>>61203261
fine, if you're gonna be a little whiny bitch about it
>improvisation
>syncopated rhythms
>polyrythmic
>both use similar instrumentation
>style of performance
>bending of notes
upon other similar characteristics
now you tell me how Wu-Tang Clan and The Isley Brothers are the same genre
>>61201567
Beyonce ruined it desu family. 2000's were filled with hits. Musiq Soulchild, Alicia keys, Maxwell, D'angelo, Anthony Hamilton, Ginuwine, 112, The Isley Brothers. We just dont have prominent men in the top anymore making actual good meaningful music. It's all way too poppy now.
>>61203412
>improvisation
Sure. But it's not the only genre that uses improvisation. Just because something has improvisation doesn't make it jazz.
>syncopated rhythms
In Free Jazz? I wasn't aware of that
>polyrythmic
I guess so.
>both use similar instrumentation
There are solo piano jazz albums and solo saxophone jazz albums, so... Not are those two not the same genre?
>style of performance
Dixieland and Free Jazz are pretty different in that aspect
>bending of notes
What about jazz that features only a piano?
With all the characteristics you mention, we could argue that Gamelan Music is Jazz since it fits all the things you mention (save for bending notes, but again, not all jazz does, so...). Do you think Gamelan Music is Jazz then?
>now you tell me how Wu-Tang Clan and The Isley Brothers are the same genre
Because they have the same roots.
PARTYNEXTDOOR is considered RnBass or some other "future" or "modern" genre.
Subgenres man, subgenres.
>>61203534
>What about jazz that features only a piano?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P_lLPAivsZU
>Because they have the same roots.
roots != genre
back to an earlier post someone made all music comes from banging rocks together, therefore all music is the same genre
>>61203534
read a fucking book about jazz, literally every characteristic I said is gonna be mentioned
>>61203616
>Bending Blues Notes on Piano
Had no idea. Thanks for clearing that up.
Anyways, are you saying that Gamelan Music is Jazz?
>back to an earlier post someone made all music comes from banging rocks together, therefore all music is the same genre
Well, we like to call all music "music", so we are already doing something like that.
But still, not all music is from every genre. Classical Music is not Funk, for example.
>>61203634
Stop being a cop-out, answer the questions, and stop pretending you are being smart.
Or are you telling me that Free Jazz uses syncopation and that Free Jazz vs Dixieland have the same style of performance?
Also
>There are solo piano jazz albums and solo saxophone jazz albums, so... are those two not the same genre?
And is Gamelan Music Jazz?
>>61203697
sure, gamelan music is jazz
since CLEARLY percussion, flutes, xylophones are the same instrumentation as jazz
good job, you got me
"music" isn't a genre either, so that argument is retarded
you should screencap this thread and read it to yourself once your acid trip comes down, because everything you say amazes me that someone could be so fucking stupid
>>61203697
and you wanna talk about being a cop-out?
you still haven't told me any similarities in hip-hop and r&b, all you've basically said is "hurr durr black people make music so it's all the same"
>>61203752
>since CLEARLY percussion, flutes, xylophones are the same instrumentation as jazz
In that case either the solo piano jazz album or the solo saxophone jazz album is not jazz then.
I would suppose that by that logic jazz made with guitars isn't jazz then.
>>61203779
>you still haven't told me any similarities in hip-hop and r&b, all you've basically said is "hurr durr black people make music so it's all the same"
Uhm, no. I only said they have the same roots, so they are all part of the same genre (with that genre having many other sub-genres).
If I were to say that characteristics are what makes something a genre we could argue that gamelan music is jazz.
>>61201567
Why did you post a photo of Chris Rock
>>61203816
once again
roots != genre
no idea why you can't understand that
>characteristics are what makes something a genre
so then the textbook definition of a genre that you for some reason refuse to go by?
>>61203379
>Chris Brown
Hasn't been good since the Rihanna incident aside from a couple gems. Which is a shame because he's really fucking talented.
>Drake
Not R&B. Just because he's a singing black man doesn't make him R&B.
>PARTYNEXTDOOR/Weeknd
They're cool but this experimental shit is annoying, because EVERY R&B artist sounds like this now and it's essentially what's killed the genre.
>Bieber
Journals was R&B but it flopped so he probably won't go back to that ever again. Purpose was pop.
>Omarion
Fucking lel he hasn't been good in years.
>Usher
Fucking lel he hasn't been good in years.
>R Kelly
Fucking lel he hasn't been good in years.
>>61203854
>roots != genre
>no idea why you can't understand that
I understand why you say that, but I disagree, because I think that making genres based on musical roots is more coherent than doing it by characteristics.
>so then the textbook definition of a genre that you for some reason refuse to go by?
You are right. I'm disagreeing with the textbook definition of a genre, but that's because it leads to inconsistencies. Like Gamelan Music being Jazz, despite the two genres being from completely different parts of the world, yet at the same time having the same elements that make jazz jazz.
>>61203966
R&B pretty much fused with pop in the 90s. That's party why you have neo-soul, music that doesn't sound like radio pop.
There are still more traditional acts, but they are basically indie and pretty much only a subsect of black people listen to them.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OGQGqJwxlQI
>>61203966
Are you trying to tell me
Jungle
Hold on we're going home
Hotline Bling
are rap songs
Thundercat is a beast. Bruner will be making quality talent for years to come.
Did you not just hear Currents? Kevin Parker is a bad man.
>>61201567
musical ideas don't die moron.
>>61205482
Yikes.
OVO Sound Radio
