Is techno the best subgenre of electronic music?
>>60611018
>subgenre
>>60611018
well memed faggot
Is kreatrock the best subgenre of string music?
>>60611018
>subgenres
>techno in general
>>60611018
Electronic is not a genre.
Now, saying Detroit techno is the best subgenre of techno, that would be objectively true.
IDM > ambient > techno imo
It depends what sort of techno you're talking about.
Anyway Acid House >>>>>>
>>60611074
Nah, funk is
>>60611127
IDM is not an actual thing
>>60611025
>>60611062
>>60611077
>>60611107
>bleepfags will never, EVER stop getting butthurt about this
lolno, its hip hop
>>60611018
>subgenre
The best genre of electronic music is """ IDM""" followed by jungle/drum and bass which is tied with techno
The worst genre of electronic music is easily generic pop """ EDM"""
>>60611181
Its easy b8
They're right though, you have to be some kind of moronic imbecile from reddit to really think electronic is a genre
>>60611217
people have been calling electronic music a genre decades before reddit became a thing
What's so intelligent about IDM?
>>60611181
>rockists will never, EVER stop trying to call subgenres of string music different genres
(it would be nice to have a good general thread on non-/bleep/ electronic shit desu)
>>60611212
>IDM
techno
>jungle/drum and bass
breaks
>techno
techno
>generic pop EDM
pop
>>60611161
nice meme
>>60611258
Then start threads about actual genres, not huge wide reaching umbrellas like electronic, or string, or brass.
Electronica is just a subgenre of rock as much as punk or metal are. Via the proxy of modern R&B.
R&B simply set the stage for rock'n'roll to emerge. What was missing (the great drawback of rhythm'n'blues) was true creativity. Rhythm'n'blues (whether vocal or instrumental) was anchored to well-defined structures, that performers challenged only marginally. There were no significant attempts to create free-form structures, to integrate idioms of other cultures, to enlarge the orchestration to new instruments, to radically alter any of the fundamental dogmas of black-music performance. That was indeed the revolution of rock music, which will progressively introduce the traditional European values of innovation and progress into the archaic values of African personal expression.
Indeed, the majority of EDM is a reversion to the stagnation of 40s R&B and 70s Disco. In 30 years time it will seem just as embarrassing and non-artistic as these. Is there contemporary patrician electronic music? In a word, absolutely. But it's represented by avant-garde electroacoustic improvisation and experimental developments using progeria like Supercollider, not by some hack in a warehouse blasting an endless I-I-V-I progression over a disco sample.
Punk 9/10 album: Husker Du - Zen Arcade
Metal 9/10 album: Type O Negative - Deep, Slow, Hard
Hip hop and Electronica 9/10 album: [ERROR NOT FOUND]
Electronica is just a subgenre, anything else is a microgenre and of no relevance to educated music enthusiasts.
Best is jungle and early/middle stage dubstep
>>60611254
Nothing. I mean listen to first-wave "IDM"
It's LITERALLY techno
>>60611254
Nothing makes music innately 'intelligent,' so nothing. IDM was just a marketing term made by 90s journos that describes the post-dance-music experimentalism of British electronic music at the time.
No electronic genre will ever surpass hip hop
Not even Stockhausen
>>60611263
You're mostly right that early IDM doesn't sound much different than techno. IDM became its own distinctive sound in the mid and late 90s though.
>>60611254
It's called that way to counter dumb hardcore music (breakbeat hardcore, gabber, etc.)
>>60611296
The second summer of love starting in '88 was the most important era in modern European music culture as it took the American based house and techno and fused it with European attitudes, prowess and compositional excellence to forefront the run of the music that followed on through the rave era, the 90s progression of techno, house, and of course breakbeat hardcore, jungle and all the genres and fusions that followed
Dance music of the 1990s largely rejected the simple, jovial, hedonistic approach to body movement that had ruled since James Brown invented funk music in the 1960s. Disco, techno and house had simply imported new technologies (both for rhythm and arrangements) into the paradigm of funk. The 1990s continued that process, one of the most important ideas to come out of Britain was jungle or drum & bass, a syncopated, polyrhythmic and frantic variant of house, a fusion of hip-hop and techno that relied on extremely fast drum-machines, epileptic breakbeats and huge bass lines.
Few genres of popular music underwent so many changes and reached such ambitious heights as jungle did. Within a few years, jungle musicians were already composing abstract and ambient pieces, integrating breakbeats with pop vocals, adopting jazz improvisation Thanks to ever more intricate beats and to free structures borrowed from jazz, jungle music rapidly became the foundation for a new kind of avantgarde music, pursued by the most austere of the genre's visionaries
It both cemented the death of and proved without doubt that outside of America, the dark ages of rock were dead and merely a passing fad and the progression of funk, soul and rhythm and blues, and via proxy, the music of Jamaica and the influence of hip hop on dance music and indeed hip hop itself showed that electronic music was the natural progression and the rock of the 60s and 70s was a waste of time and a step backwards in music progression.
>>60611359
>Within a few years, jungle musicians were already composing abstract and ambient pieces, integrating breakbeats with pop vocals, adopting jazz improvisation Thanks to ever more intricate beats and to free structures borrowed from jazz, jungle music rapidly became the foundation for a new kind of avantgarde music, pursued by the most austere of the genre's visionaries
This weirdy-beardy has done a few genuinely startling tracks, and is generally quite amusing. What galls is the sheer arrogance and temerity of Squarepusher and other similar "drill and bass" dilettantes --they actually believe they are improving on jungle!!! All that Squarepusher has brought to drum & bass is some Jaco Pastorius bass-frills, a dys-funk-tional rhythmic convolution, and a quirked-out daftness that recalls nobody so much as Primus. On a purely technical level, nothing that Squarepusher does with breakbeats surpasses engineer-poets like Hype, Aphrodite, Dillinja, 4 Hero or Danny Breaks, to mention only the most obvious leaders-in-the-field. It is only Squarepusher/Plug etc's distance from the scene that allows them to convolute the breakbeats beyond any use-value to DJ or dancer; the wilful incongruity of the samples is all well and good, but if junglists use the same old gangsta/cyberpunk soundbites and apocalyptic textures, it's because they're trying to create and sustain a vibe, a feeling-full and meaningful mood that crystallises a certain kind of worldview and life-stance. By comparison, drill and bass is vibe-less non-sense. The drill and bass/"fungle" concept seems to exist to make a certain sort of "margin-walker" feel okay about not really having engaged with jungle as a subculture. And of course, as with most soi disant progressive iniatives, drill and bass is utterly parasitic on its populist counterpart--do you really think the idea of chopping up breakbeats would have independently occurred to the weirdy-beardy technoids in a million years?
>>60611296
>>60611359
How do you explain nu-jazz made in the medium of DAWs? Do you think experimenting with jazz using synthesized instruments is regressive to music?
I prefer acid and detroit techno over IDM. Am I a weirdo?
>>60611427
>>60611359
When drill & bass first reared its head, I was admittedly quite enamored--I really liked the first two Plug EP's and Aphex Twin's "Hangable Auto Bulb" efforts, and was generally enthused by the notion that these artists were freer because they didn't belong to the drum & bass community, didn't have to service DJ's and dancefloor. But Squarepusher was a turning point. Partly because so much of his stuff sounds irritatingly daft to my ears (that said, there were three tracks on Hard Normal Daddy that sounded engagingly strange), but mainly because of the attitude of his supporters--the sheer arrogance of these folks who just assume that Tom Jenkinson's programming is so much more radical than "formula-ridden" junglists. This assumption, I strongly suspect, stems from the fact that they've never actually heard mad-sounding mash-ups like DJ Hype's remix of Remarc's "RIP" or Dillinja's "Warrior". These records are "avant-garde" and fucked-up but still manage to make you dance--to me, a much greater achievement than just freaking out all over the shop. In a lot of Squarepusher-related discourse, the underlying assumption is that if something has no funktional aspect, it's somehow more radical; that this makes it food-for-thought rather than mere dance fodder. Which would seem to replicate the old Cartesian mind/body split, a la prog rock, no?
>>60611427
Techno producers will never produce artistic music because all they care about is making music danceable or chill, they just don't have the musicianship and compositional ability required to do so. Vid related - this is what you should be doing with the latest technology, using it as an extension of your musical virtuosity. Using "loops" in an intelligent way, conscious of Reich and the avant garde minimalists, conscious of the krautrock roots of electronica. Being able to time loops perfectly in real time. Using post-experimental sample fukery instead of shitty "atmospheric" reverbed kicks with boring "melodies". Combining the endless digital tracker tones with the dynamic timbres of the funk sample to increase the extent that the same rhythmic or even harmonic tones can play off of each other.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jEHhH8k1yhs
Is there contemporary patrician Techno music? In a word, absolutely. But it's represented by avantgarde post-progressive composers taking influence from both old funk and new breakbeat movements and using progeria like Renoise, the successor to Scream Tracker, not by some hack in a warehouse blasting an endless I-I-I-I progression over a TB303.
Technotards are some of the most solipsistic in the world because they don't seem to realize that even the most "cutting-edge DJs" they can think of are 20-30 years behind the curve of _actual_ electronic music development.
Honestly to hear the way some of you get indignant when I bring this up. You don't realize that you're listening to the most populist, retrogressive, kindergarten exponent of the "style" you pretend to champion, and the worst part is the irony is completely lost on you. Jungle, neurofunk/DnB and juke composers are paving the way in electronic music. Instead you champion the niche retard movement which is equivalent to classical *muzak*, smooth jazz, and heavy metal as a genre/movement.
>>60611461
>>60611427
>>60611359
>>60611468
Another turning point was going to various freestyle/"eclectro"/illbient type clubs in London and New York, where I was struck by the absence of "vibe" compared with more "blinkered", tunnel-vision clubs that cater to very specific tastes (jump up jungle, 'aving it house, gabba, and so forth). Partly the vibe-less thing is down to the absence of drug energy, partly the absence of class-based energy/antagonism. But I also think it stems from the very rhetoric of border-crossing, style-hopping, "united mutations"--which tends to attract a rather uncommitted consumer: the proverbial chin-scratcher/head-nodder/trainspotter. Having been that sort of margin-walker myself for so long, I've kind of gone to the opposite extreme: the belief that the apparent "samey"-ness of jump up jungle or gabba or hard house actually produces something very strong and undeniable: a consistent mood, a highly charged affective atmosphere that truly pulsates with "meaning" (for want of a better word).
>>60611441
Why would you even ask these things on board who thinks electronic is an actual genre and the only nu jazz anyone can name is Amon Tobin anyway.
>>60611302
The thing is "IDM" hardly made sense as a grouping method anyway. After the Warp Artificial Intelligence series ended in 1994 (in which all the "IDM" artists felt pretty linked and related sound-wise), they all kind of split off and did their own thing and all sounded pretty wildly different to each other after the fact. Even the big 4/"list goes on..." core only share a few similarities.
Honestly IDM only ever started sounding super homogenous and connected in the early 2000s/second-wave when you got a bunch of mediocre artists trying to rip the OG 90s ones, and it became super saturated. But by that time the IDM as a "movement" had become irrelevant, really.
>>60611445
Not at all.
>>60611494
>>60611461
>>60611427
>>60611359
>>60611468
Where you fall in terms of allegiances depends a lot on how much you value the concept of "being an individual". Squarepusher's stance depends on maintaining a disdainful distance from the jungle scene while parasitically pirating and caricaturing its ideas (I've read Jenkinson actually talk of his relationship with jungle as similar to the difference between "those who lead and those who follow"--ARSEHOLE!!!). This attitude is reflected in many Pusher-fans reluctance to get involved in club culture, seemingly based on the rather adolescent notion that being an individual means refusing to lose yourself in the crowd. Where you fall in terms of allegiance also depends on what you are fundamentally looking for pop music. If you just want weird noises to play on your stereo at home on your lonesome ownsome, then the margin-walkers artists are the ones you'll go for. But if your fix is that whole subculture-matrix where music is part of "a way of life" (e.g. jungle with the MCing and the pirate radio and the crowd rituals etc.), then ostensibly more formulaic scenes and sounds just seem "stronger".
>>60611293
They die pretty much immediately (within 10-15 posts) with all the same entry-level music in it. Just look up any drum and bass thread on rebeccablacktech, they always just have Squarepusher (who is breakcore, not dnb btw) and Goldie and maybe two other artists. It's a shame but honestly /mu/ is just too rock-oriented for such threads to get enough attention.
>>60611263
Jungle/drum and bass has differentiated itself enough from breaks to be considered separate desu (even though it's a breakbeat-based genre.)
Also on IDM see what >>60611342 said, especially considering that drill n bass/idm-breakcore became a thing in the latter half of the decade.
>>60611524
>>60611494
>>60611461
>>60611427
>>60611359
>>60611468
My ultimate beef with the Squarepusher-type drill & bassologists is that they've decontextualised the music, stripped away all the aspects that give it resonance and affect and subcultural meaning. They've responded to jungle's complexity rather than the feelings it induces and the struggles it embodies. In true prog-rock fashion, they've taken that complexity (the breakbeat science) and turned into a baroque form of virtuosity. It's a typical white bohoprogressivist syndrome, from freeform jazz to prog rock to avant-funk---turning a popular dance music into an unpopular head music. And so those super-accelerated, pitch-shifted, scratchy-rustly-scrapy breakbeats that Squarepusher over-uses work as a trebly timbre element that you listen to, rather than funktional, kinaesthetic beats that work your body. But the real give-away about Squarepusher is what he does with the bass (possibly even more crucial to jungle than breakbeats), i.e. replace the low-end seismology with noodly Jaco Pastorius slap-bass. How anybody who'd ever viscerally experienced jungle sub-bass in its true context (at massive volume through a huge low-end intensive sound-system) could prefer Squarepusher's frilly filigrees of bass-twiddle to the "real thing".... Well, it beats me.
>>60611528
>it's a breakbeat-based genre
Thats the point, its not an electronic genre, its a breakbeat genre, the top of the chain, nothing higher, no more rungs on the ladder.
Techno is a genre, breaks are a genre.
>>60611018
Berlin School.
>>60611445
>Am I a weirdo?
Yes you are. First wave IDM (that is IDM up until ~1994) is pretty much UK's take in Detroit Techno.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_A0XZdq64wM
I think its cute how pardners still see this imaginary ''genre'' of ''electronic music'' and its EDM vs IDM and put hip hop separately. I don't think I could ever go to Amerifat, the stupidity is amazing.
>>60611677
I think it's cute how it's autumn 2015 and you're still going on about pesky pardners and muh idm and electronic music aren't genres of music.
>>60611512
I dunno, I feel like even though the big artists of IDM adopted different genre influences after the early 90s they still sounded fairly similar due to just how tied to the Warp sound the style was. You have a lot of people who are heavily influenced by Aphex at the time (Squarepusher, Luke Vibert, mu-Ziq, all the Rephlex artists) who take up a large part of the scene, and then you have a smaller set influenced by Autechre who are creating the stereotypical 'IDM sound' with releases like Tri Repetae and the EPs released around it. So even though the big artists may have diverged in style through the second half of the decade I feel that they managed to have a similar base 'sound' to them which could be said to constitute what makes 'IDM.'
>>60611677
I think you just kind of learn the nuances of what people mean on here when they say "electronic" - as narrow as it is. Usually people do mean dance/club music + "IDM" - they're generally not asking for industrial or musique concrete or hip-hop.
That being said it's very ignorant to leave hip-hop out of the discussion, especially the hip hop in the 80s. It was intrinsically related to dance music; form the early djing and turntabalism to the housier style hip-hop to electro hip-hop to the 808 becoming prominent in the Miami scene. You can hardly divorce the two.
>>60611573
Except breakbeat is by definition an electronic genre due to the fact that it's sampled, so by that logic you may as well just condense all electronic music into a general genre. Also, I feel that from a base compositional standpoint dnb uses the breakbeat in a much different manner than the genre of breakbeat (eg you would never hear a stripped down 2-step pattern in a breaks track but that style of drums was often used in late 90s dnb.)
Who had the biggest influence on electronic music overall?
Americans
Brits
Germans
Italians
Someone else
>>60611901
Germans -> Americans -> rest of Europe -> Britbongistan
>>60611901
Well for techno I'd say Africa
>>60611868
Yet techno alone is fucking huge, why the fuck would you lump it all together.
>>60611894
So string music is a genre then (from Vivaldi to NMH, Napalm Death to Dylan) because they use stringed instruments?
Lets never have a thread for funk, rock, punk, indie, metal, shoegaze or anything like that ever again. Lets just have ONE string music thread for ALL of it.
What a great board it would be.
No wait, thats retarded.
>>60611901
Americans started all the dance genres and hip hop but the others took and developed the dance stuff after America abandoned it. So ultimately though America did very little in the development in the genres it has to be considered the most influential just do to the fact that it created all of them.
Don't know jack shit about musique concréte and similar experimental stuff so I wouldn't know what country affected that the most.
>>60611950
>(from Vivaldi to NMH, Napalm Death to Dylan)
>from 1600 music to 1900 music
string music encompasses a wider time scale and contains more variety than electronic music which justifies it's separation
nice going shooting yourself in the foot with this argument
>jeff mills played live in my country a week ago and i missed it because no friends into techno to go with
i want to die
>>60611950
>Yet techno alone is fucking huge, why the fuck would you lump it all together.
Yes, I'm aware, but the majority of people on /mu/ don't seem to realise this. I just don't let it bother me anymore - I mean, I've been on here (too long) ad there are always people like you or w/e trying to tell people the difference, but it never sticks. So I just save this sort of discussion for /bleep/, because it's futile on the rest of the board.
>>60611950
No, my point was that the logical conclusion of your argument would be to classify genres solely by instrument/compositional device, which is fucking retarded.
>>60611976
Even in it's heyday, dance in America was really only influential in NYC, Detroit, Miami, and San Francisco
https://www.google.co.nz/search?q="electronic+music"
>About 23,900,000 results (0.35 seconds)
https://www.google.co.nz/search?q="string+music"
>About 378,000 results (0.24 seconds)
Case closed.
>>60612117
Yeah, but that doesn't negate the fact that America created the genres in the first place. America wasn't at all important in the development of the genres past that but it's still by definition the most influential in their development by creating them.
>>60611018
J U N G L E
U
N
G
L
E
>>60612017
you missed it cause you're a pathetic little bitch. nobody's sympathizing with you here just go alone
>>60612223
Sorry, wasn't trying to negate your original point, as I agree with you. It's just odd when people still try to say America has some sort of hold on dance music, especially since it was always in a very contained area.
Though we can't ignore that EBM was very influential to techno and that started in Europe.
>>60612393
fuck you
