Prove your good taste.
http://strawpoll.me/5973957
Anyone want to discuss them?
Beatles win. Easy. The Mothers album is good, but sometimes I feel like they're forcing it a little.
>>60299175
To clarify, the proof is picking Sgt. Peppers, right?
>>60299573
Hmmmmm how would you think that?
Cruising is the only good zappa album
>>60299613
What an odd opinion.
>>60299608
"Hmmmmm", maybe it has something to do with the fact that Sgt. Pepper's is actually a cohesive album unifying multiple overtly different musical styles with unmatched pop songwriting, delivering one of the most complete and intelligent artistic statements in popular music at that point in time.
WOIIFTM is an uneven rambling mess made by a man who was too cynical and unintelligent to understand what was going on in Sgt. Peppers and instead opted to dwell on the hippie lyrics and aesthetic of the record, and the flower power movement in general.
>>60299753
It seems that your main argument seems to look at Sgt Pepper in comparison to other pop music, and not objectively.
It's really quite a bland album when you compare it to albums from the same time. Even Revolver was more avantgarde than it.
>>60299831
Not pop music. Popular music. Popular music is more blanket; it includes music of all styles that happened to be popular at that time. But yes, pop music as well.
>avantgarde
Wow, a Zappa fan dropped the avant garde buzzword as the entire basis of his argument. What a shocker.
>>60299875
>Wow, a Zappa fan dropped the avant garde buzzword as the entire basis of his argument. What a shocker.
>>60299753
You're either delusional or ignorant if you think that Zappa couldn't understand what was going on musically, thematically, culturally, etc. on Sgt Pepper.
He rejected what it stood for but Zappa was light years ahead of the Beatles as a songwriter.
He often wasted his talents trying to be funny and was too involved in rejecting the norm to just write sincere and well made music but he was certainly capable of it and when he actually put his mind to writing good music, he proved himself to be one of rocks greatest composers.
You can call him a lot of things but unintelligent isn't one of them and implying that The Beatles music was beyond his understanding is just plain wrong.
>>60300036
Did Zappa ever write anything "sincere"?
![Frank_Zappa_-_Uncle_Meat[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/TVyY3mc.jpg "Frank_Zappa_-_Uncle_Meat[1].jpg")
We're Only In It For The Money is one of the worst Mothers albums
pic related, something actually worth listening to
>>60300081
That's not even a rock album though, it's not comparable.
>>60299925
I like imagining you trying to argue with some kid in your intro to psychology class about why Zappa is more of a genius than John Lennon ever was and all you can do is mumble about how complex and avant garde music is over and over until the poor kid gets bored and just starts ignoring you. It's an especially entertaining image because you can't just throw up a pepe reaction image when you run out of things to say.
>>60300036
>Zappa was light years ahead of the Beatles as a songwriter.
Zappa was ahead of the Beatles as a composer, and even then, only for his rhythmic complexity. The Beatles' harmonic structures utter decimate anything Zappa ever put to paper, and his wanna be 20th century composer trash is laughable.
>You can call him a lot of things but unintelligent isn't one of them and implying that The Beatles music was beyond his understanding is just plain wrong.
I'm sure he looked back on this record at some point and realized how short sighted he was when he picked this album, of all the wannabe hippie bullshit of the late 60s, to poke fun at. But at the time he certainly didn't understand that he was taking the piss out of a better album than he had ever written at that time.
>>60300113
>and his wanna be 20th century composer trash is laughable.
Pierre Boulez disagrees with you.
Do you know more about 20th century music than Pierre Boulez?
>>60300113
>he was taking the piss out of a better album than he had ever written at that time.
Lumpy Gravy and Freak Out! were both before Sgt. Pepper though.
>>60300127
Tons of music scholars adore the Beatles. Your point is irrelevant.
>>60300127
As far as I know he just did a one off where he conducted some pieces by Zappa in the mid 80s. Did he do a noteworthy about of dickriding at some other point that I missed?
Points for namedropping someone other than Zubin Mehta though.
>>60300151
And neither were better than Sgt. Pepper in any capacity.
>>60300207
That has nothing to do with my point.
You said:
> his wanna be 20th century composer trash is laughable.
Meanwhile:
>Finally, he sent some scores to Mr. Boulez, who took them and him seriously. Mr. Boulez commissioned a piece through his new-music center in Paris, and agreed to record a disk of Mr. Zappa's chamber music with his Ensemble InterContemporain - which is the new Angel disk.
>>60300249
>Did he do a noteworthy about of dickriding at some other point that I missed?
Zappa was a big exception in the realm of popular music. I am always open and curios on strong personalities. When Zappa came to me and asked me to play something of his, I said: 'Of course, that interests me'. When I decided a program with his works, I have also chosen pieces of Charles Yves and Elliot Carter. I did that consciously to show the audiences, that I not only wanted to blend a little bit of pop into serious music. I wanted to confront this division of music, which Zappa himself considered very serious, with a prestigious and more intellectual composer like Elliot Carter and Charles Yves, an exception in the american world of music.
>>60300297
That first person isn't even me.
>>60300127
>Do you know more about 20th century music than Pierre Boulez?
Evidently you don't considering all you can do is throw around a bit of trivia and a quote.
>>60300411
>Evidently you don't
Who the fuck would claim to know more than Pierre Boulez?
Do you even understand who he is?
>>60300442
This is weak now. If you're going to defend someone, use your own words. I could pick one of many great works on music by one of many great people and use that, but it'd be weak and unoriginal. Someone educated sharing your opinion doesn't make it right you know.
>>60300442
Argumentum ad verecundiam.
Bye.
>>60300482
>Someone educated sharing your opinion doesn't make it right you know
And you disagreeing with me doesn't make YOU right.
I'm just saying there's a strong case for Zappa.
>>60300520
hahahahaha see above
>>60299175
Zappa bores me to tears.
>>60300520
>Argumentum ad Verecundiam (argument from authority) fallacy: an appeal to the testimony of an authority outside the authority's special field of expertise.
Music is not outside the expertise of Boulez: it is his exact field of study.
>>60299175
Zappa is babbies first look-at-me-and-my-weird-music-ma core
>>60300527
Pic related.
>>60300553
Where the fuck did you get that ass backwards definition? It means literally the opposite.
>>60300598
Your two arguments are
1. backpedalling
2. fallacy-calling
you're hilariously pretentious.
That being said:
http://philosophy.lander.edu/logic/authority.html
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mgqM6xeZHNM
my good taste told me that the beatles are better than zappa.
scaruffi is a cancer
>>60300665
Scaruffi barely likes Zappa aside from one or two albums.
>>60300069
A lot of his jazz stuff certainly was and he was really at the forefront of fusion music in the late 60s/early 70s.
Of course the type of person he was, most albums would have some attempts at humour and chances are, if there were lyrics, he was attacking someone but even then the tracks could be very well composed.
>>60300113
Have you done harmonic analysis of pieces from both artists to arrive at this conclusion? I haven't ever actually sat down and looked to see what was going on musically in the chord progressions of a Zappa song.
Looking at Brown Shoes don't Make it off Absolutely Free which came out the same year, just by ear, there's unusual modes, key changes that in sections happen once a bar while still having vaguely flowing melody, atonal sections, some pretty unusual vocal harmonies, a mixture of harmonic references to various styles, etc.
The piece is pretty damn complex structurally because there are so many sections but what's actually going on in those sections is pretty interesting.
Plz though, pick a celebrated piece like Peaches en Regalia or something it's harmonic structure.
>>60299175
>35 percent of this thread is fucking retarded
>>60300633
I love when people think it's pretentious to point out obvious holes in someone's poorly constructed argument.
Also look up "argument from authority" basically anywhere else and you'll find the exact opposite of that 90s website you just linked. And is that a fucking youtube video as a source?
>>60300774
>I love when people think it's pretentious to point out obvious holes in someone's poorly constructed argument.
How old are you? Respond honestly.
what if i don't listen to either album
>>60300815
>How old are you? Respond honestly.
22. Why does that matter? Is there an age restriction to dismissing someone's distinctly shitty argument when you observe that it follows a fallacious train of thought?
>>60300825
Then you have shit taste
>>60300833
>Why does that matter?
Because you're behaving like someone who doesn't have a life or responsibilities.
>>60300825
>Xus doesn't listen to Zappa
sigh I thought you had GOOD taste...
>>60300898
>Because you're behaving like someone who doesn't have a life or responsibilities.
That's sad to hear.
>sigh I thought you had GOOD taste...
>thinking xus has good taste
>>60300890
do not :(
>>60300898
zappa bores the shit out of me bro
>>60300930
Yeah you do how could you not like Frank Zappa or The Beatles? Post your lastfm
>>60300979
only if you promise to be my best friend
>>60299532
Cause beatles are never forcing, right?
>>60301015
Promise bby <3
>>60299175
Voted for Sgt.Pepper because that's what Zappa would do.
Fuck your shenenigans
>>60299175
We're Only In It For the Money all the way man.
Also, I think we need a new version of it.
Maybe something like We're Only in it for the Maymays and make it a parody of memerap?
>>60301050
yay
http://www.last.fm/user/q-g
>>60299175
What if I like both?
>>60301101
Never mind, bad taste
>their weakest album
>>60299831
How is it objectively bland?
>>60301244
wow you promised a55h0l3
...................../´¯¯/)
...................,/¯.../
.................../..../
.............../´¯/'..'/´¯¯`·¸
.........../'/.../..../....../¨¯\
..........('(....´...´... ¯~/'..')
...........\..............'...../
............\....\.........._.·´
.............\..............(
..............\..............\
ITT: idiots who think Zappa was specifically attacking Sgt Pepper
Really embarrassing.
>>60301388
This.
He was attacking the "hippie" culture, which he saw as a marketing ploy that only sucks life from the freak subculture.
>>60301433
Explain. I'm interested.
>>60301995
Did you listen to the album?
>>60301995
pretty much this:
>>60302046
Also you can read wikipedia on it:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/We%27re_Only_in_It_for_the_Money
On the track Who Needs the Peace Corps, he's most direct about his feeling about the hippie culture and what it's doing to the actual freaks.
Do people actually like the Beatles? Can someone explain why?
>>60302561
Yes. They write catchy, memorable songs. Sometimes they're structured in surprisingly complex ways. Sometimes there's a bit of studio experimentation.
>>60300675
>Scaruffi barely likes Zappa aside from one or two albums.
Freak Out , 8/10
Absolutely Free , 8/10
We're Only In It For The Money , 8/10
Uncle Meat , 9/10
Weasels Ripped My Flesh , 8/10
Jean-Luc Ponty: King Kong , 8/10
Burnt Weeny Sandwich , 8/10
>>60300825
why are you even here? fuck off idiot
>>60299613
I didn't know people like you existed
I like the Man From Utopia because it has an original vibe, but I couldn't imagine making that or Cruising my favorite
okok
