/classical/
Images are sometimes not shown due to bandwidth/network limitations. Refreshing the page usually helps.
You are currently reading a thread in /mu/ - Music
You are currently reading a thread in /mu/ - Music
>at classical concert
>Beethoven 5
>orchestra playin awful
>conductor tempos too fast
>piece ends
>loud "Bravo!"
>immediate standing ovation
>Tfw can't be ignorant and happy
>>60237553
You've got to applaud the effort at least.
Just don't stand up.
>>60231221
To tell the truth I'd prefer this thread be the current classical thread rather than the other one. Though the other one with its controversial OP will probably last longer.
>>60237773
I don't care about that shit thread
>>60237715
I applauded and stood up because I knew people in the audience and didn't want to become a pariah.
That being said how can a person allow themselves to fuck up Beethoven 5? It's embarrassing. Honestly embarrassing.
>>60237773
wha? not even classical thread. It was meme or trolling
relevant to the topic:
what are some (NON KLEIBER) recordings of Beethoven 5 that you love? any that challenged you?
>>60237936
No, but it was operating as the current classical thread.
I did also link this thread there so people come here instead. Just felt I needed to link both ways
>>60237773
Reposting here since that thread is shit.
My cello teacher told me there's a standard progression of cello repertoire that student cellists typically go through in order of difficulty (and that my insistence on working on the Davidoff 2nd Cello Concerto instead was skipping ahead way too early). Well, I've long since given up on the Davidoff, at least for now. Is there any such list online?
>>60238022
scherchen's, stokowski's, furtwangler's wartime and '47 recordings (both), schuricht, mengelberg, leibowitz, markveitch, cantelli, etc. etc.
there are so many good ones
>>60237553
he was probably just trying to be as HIP as possible anon since the premiere of Beethoven's 5th was played horribly :^)
>>60238373
I mean IDK he was pretty HIP in his total lack of expression
there were so many times I thought "really we're going to have the woodwinds playing MF here? ok then..."
>>60238022
>challenging
cobra
>>60238510
cobra is by far the funniest meme to come out of /mu/
>>60238022
tennstedt & cantelli are my 2 favorites. harnoncourt 2006 real close, but tbf i dont like the symphony
Do you guys like Schumann's Symphonic Etudes?
What does /classical/ think of Boccherini's Cello Concerto in Bb Major?
>>60237553
>too fast
>Beethoven
>>60238834
hell yeah though I've only heard based Pogorelich
>>60238834
yes
>>60238969
The Andante was played at like 96 for a lot of it
>>60238867
specifically Grutzmacher's arrangement of it.
What composers would Mozart have preferred? What about Schubert? What about Palestrina?
What's everyone's favorite recording(s) of their favorite Bruckner symphony?
Honorable mentions Kubelík & van Beinum.
>>60241103
>Bruckner
>not 2
>not Karajan
why bother?
How does /classical/ feel about this melody so far?
>>60241148
>Karajan's Bruckner
Fuck off Ame.
>>60241160
do you know what a secondary dominant is?
>>60241182
there is no better conductor of german music though
>>60241211
>there is no better conductor of german music though
Blatantly false.
>>60241248
Furtwangler is okay but Karajan is better also recording quality is a factor whether you like it or not
Beethoven meant for the fifth to be fast.
Like incredibly, uncomfortably, and insanely fast.
>>60240507
Mozart preferred Handel and Haydn IIRC
and of course sacred renaissance composers
>>60241211
Are you going to suggest that I resolve the half cadence at the end with a V7/iv instead of a i? I'm actually planning on doing that.
>>60241103
Furtwankler and Symphony 7 or 9 probably
modern day recording probably Pretre and Symphony 7 in a live recording
>>60239048
that disc also has a goat chopin preludes. prime arrau was very based
>>60241649
not sure if you're still around but I messed around with your thing. I liked it but I thought the lh was too low and there were some other things
>>60242327
except obviously the sequence in the alto should just go until the end though
>>60242327
>Someone else has given their take on my melody
This is the best input I could have asked for! Currently putting it into Noteworthy to hear it. Thanks.
>the lh was too low
Did you maybe misread it and not see the treble clef in the left hand?
>some other things
By all means elaborate.
>>60242489
wow yup I totally missed that my bad. it's gonna sound way different now haha
>By all means elaborate.
I wasn't a huge fan of all those seconds, and as you can see I added some inner voices
>>60242525
I'm actually kind of interested to hear how the way you misread it sounds now.
Anonymous 11/07/15(Sat)17:01:37 No.60234114▶>>60235421
Fuck me. I came over to see my old man and he was playing Philip Glass the whole time. Now its 3 days later and I have the most tortuous earworm wear generic Glass passages just keeping playing strung end to end. Someone cure me!
>>60242525
Honestly, I wasn't incredibly thrilled with how it sounded, at least on Noteworthy (which is admittedly terrible at interpretation). As a whole it sounded kind of clattered and unfocused. A lot of the trouble could come from how the same instrument is playing all the parts, though. When I listen to how the left hand sounds it just sounds like a constant and oddly-jumpy series of eighth notes, but I imagine the tenor part would sound great if it were played by something else, say, a bassoon. Same with the alto (well, not on the bassoon though).
Also I hadn't even considered using that sixteenth-note anticipation for the countermelody. I'm definitely going to steal that (well, for later in the piece).
24/7 live channel stream of the classic arts:
http://www.classicartsshowcase.org/watch-classic-arts-showcase/
>>60241160
What's with the anchors? Is that really the best they could come up with to represent something being anchored in the layout?
>>60237553
>Fucking up Beethoven 5
what shitty orchestra is this?
What are you listening to on this Remembrance Sunday /classical/?
What're some good recordings of Pictures at an Exhibition?
I have Calcium's waifu, Firkušný, and Richter's Sofia recital.
>>60243897
Yep.
I use Noteworthy because I've practically grown up with it and it's more malleable than most composition programs (the time signature has no actual function in the program, you simply place the measure lines at your leisure), but in all honesty it's terrible.
>>60245025
Is she Armenian?
>>60243897
While you're here, since I still have no idea what I'm doing with this, how would you analyze this melody? Specifically the cadence in the middle. The 3rd measure harmony is a ii° chord (or a vii°/III chord) and the 4th is a III. Is that a half cadence? Would I simply describe it as "the melody temporarily modulates to the relative major and does an IAC there"?
>>60245165
do you really have to analyze it? its perfectly fine to have a random cadence in a related key. Just write what sounds good and let musicologists worry about whats actually going on. Sibelius is worth checking out if you want decent notation software
I just finished a chromatic fantasy and fugue and if I spent too much time analyzing it I wouldn't have written half the things I did. As long as you dont have blatant parallel 5ths and try to keep good voice leading, you should be all good.
>>60238208
http://www.cello.org/libraries/references/syllabus.html
maybe work on kol nidre or some shit before davidoff. seems really hard actually. gotta work on that thumb position.
>>60245025
horowitz. he takes liberties with the score, adds some extra notes and stuff. but it's still pretty good.
What are some examples of composers being ahead of their time/inventing something? It doesn't matter what period they're from.
>>60246183
Gesualdo - chromaticism
Beethoven - romanticism
Webern - sparse serialism
Varese - sonorism
Ferneyhough - complexity (ahead of his time in the 70s)
>>60245025
I like Janis's.
rotting
>>60248925
i'm watching anime
What are some good books on how to appreciate the Sonata form?
>>60250824
Bumping and seconding
Anybody else here hate bruckner? His symphonies are the symphony version of Avengers 2: Age of Ultron.
>Mozart wrote Don Giovanni's overture in a few nights
Just found this out. Holy shit.
>Beethoven 5
>orchestra playin awful
Because the symphony itself is awful.
>>60250824
lol you don't. sonata is stale as shit desu
>>60253309
Sonata is the perfect form in music.
>>60253286
>Because the symphony itself is awful.
You sure are edgy.
A few questions from a dilettante:
Are 'The Essential Canon of Classical Music' by Dubal, and, 'What to Listen for in Music' by Copland, worth reading for someone who wishes to get into Classical music as a hobby?
How to /classical/ find new composers?
And for the final question--a slightly autistic one at that--how does /classical/ 'explore' a composer? Do you have any method? Or do you just pick a random composition and listen to it?
Thank you.
>>60253733
woops; 'does /classical find'*
>>60253309
>sonata is stale as shit
How could such massive plebbotry find its way onto /classical/?
Wait, don't answer that question
Is there any good youtube reviewer of classical music?
>>60243897
>what shitty orchestra is this?
a University one, but it was a bunch of Doctoral students so they should know better.
What are your top 3 Beethoven symphonies?
Mine are 3, 6 and 7.
>>60255230
probably 3 and 6 but I wouldn't mind adding 8.
>>60255230
Massive pleb here, so I have to go with 5. 3 a close second.
>>60255230
3, 8, 6.
>>60237553
Beethoven's 5th can't be fast enough for my taste
I wanna get more into classical but I don't know which pieces and which performances of which pieces I should get and search for. Also archive is mostly dead on everything now.
>>60256350
mah nigga
>5 too fast
So we can all agree that 3, 6 and 8 are Beethoven's best symphonies.
>>60241211
>>60241148
Karajan's recording of Bruckner 8 is one of the most disastrous pieces of shit I've ever heard
>>60258492
his live american one isn't too bad
most karajan beethoven is best heard pre 80s and far away from the studio
>>60258544
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uvpXqAjnBFI
>>60258492
>>60258544
>bruckner
ugh, nevermind
i read that as Beethoven. yeah, i don't even like Karajan in Bruckner even when live, honestly.
though i still do occasionally listen to his 1944 recording of the 8th just to hear that great early stereo german engineering:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hFgn3Nr9WUI
please /classical/ recommend me some hauting shit
>>60245393
You're right, and it's true, if I spent half the time I spend overthinking my music on just writing, I'd be as prolific as Mozart by now. Well, not Mozart, but Mendelssohn, maybe.
On this particular question, though, I'm still really curious (because I've asked it multiple times and everyone avoids the question). Is there any particular term for a cadence in one key in a period, sentence or whatever that's in that key's relative minor/major? I mean I hear it too often (mostly in impressionist music and the like) for there not to be a term.
>>60250824
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wcjlm9Q29ec&index=10&list=PL9LXrs9vCXK56qtyK4qcqwHrbf0em_81r
Any good new albums (from 2015)?
>>60259334
does she do porn?
>>60245025
Sofia recital is LITERALLY all you need
>>60246183
Liszt - Everything
>>60250824
Rosen desu. Reading him at the moment and it's captivating.
>>60255230
8, 3, 9
>>60259441
She's in Vienna atm I think
rip
>>60237553
>go to see performance of Beethoven's 3rd
>every several seconds, the orchestra stops playing and the conductor turns around and explains to us what the themes are and how they're supposed to make you feel
>late beethoven fags
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VRYP3pA-PyU
>>60259309
wolfgang rihm - et lux
yuja wang - ravel
stephen hough - grieg lyric pieces
harrison birtwistle - angel fighter
>>60245127
No, Georgian. -dze is a Georgian suffix in surnames.
>>60246183
>Franz Liszt
Liszt wrote something that some people consider the first atonal piece.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zx_Wolki0dc
Liszt also wrote many pieces with "impressionistic" harmonies. Some include:
Mephisto Waltzes
Nuages Gris
Dante Sonata
>Charles Valentin Alkan
Alkan, born in the same time period as Liszt, used tone clusters. Examples of pieces that used them include:
Etude op. 35 #7
Esquisses - Les Diablotins
>Harry Partch
Invented many instruments, including the Quadrangularis Reversum, the Diamond Marimba, the Chromelodeon, the Eucal Blossom, and the Zymo-Xyl.
Also composed music using a scale with 43 tones in each octave, invented the 11-limit tonality diamond, and created the terms Otonality, Utonality, and Tonality Flux.
>La Monte Young
Credited for creating modern Minimalism.
>Brian Ferneyhough
Credited for creating New Complexity.
>Arnold Schoenberg
Credited for creating Serialism and the modern 12-tone technique with the atonal matrix.
>Bela Bartok
Credited for creating Ethnomusicology.
>Claude Debussy
Credited for creating musical Impressionism.
>>60261210
What the hell? You could sue.
Are you sure that wasn't, say, something they explicitly told you before you bought it, that you just didn't pay attention to? I'm surprised no one complained.
>>60262075
Well I specifcally knew it was something our city's orchestra made as part of a "classical music for dummies" thing that a family member dragged me to because he knew I liked classical music. Although it did say they were providing "explanations" about the piece or something, I didn't know that meant completely stopping the music every several seconds.
>>60262155
Ah. I see. Well, that's pretty bad, but nothing you can do.
They could have used the stage subtitles thing they use for librettos. Or perhaps present all the main themes before it, Peter and the Wolf style. I suppose neither of those would have been as effective, though.
If it was a classical music for dummies thing, how did your family member think of it?
>>60259466
i happen to think that richter's sofia is the GOAT but his other recordings, plus moiseiwitsch, yudina, kapell have their moments
Currently listening to Tartini's Concertos, recommend me some violin composers with the same quality.
Guys how do you remember all the key signatures?
Does anyone like Mahler here?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Les39aIKbzE
>tfw no Furtwangler Mahler
>>60264190
there is though
>>60259069
I dont think there's really a term for it beyond "modulation" one of the best ways to convince the listener you're in a new key is to have a cadence in that key. Especially in the relative major or minor, its very common, almost cliched. I use it a bit, sometimes just like to go (minor key) i (relative major) V7 - I (minor key again) V7 [repeat] as a warm up on the accordion.
I'm also a sucker for adding in a major cadence in the relative major after finishing on a big minor chord (a la the end of toto's "africa" chorus)
>>60241160
not writing with grand staff
>>60245393
>do you really have to analyze it? its perfectly fine to have a random cadence in a related key. Just write what sounds good and let musicologists worry about whats actually going on.
this is why your music is so shitty poly
>>60263593
In a variety of ways.
Start with C Major, with no sharps or flats. If you want G Major, the 'next' key, you raise the 4th scale degree. The new tonic is the 5th scale degree, G, so the 4th scale degree, F, needs to be raised to F# to become the leading tone of this scale.
Now if you want the 'next' key in this list of scales with sharps in the key signature, you raise the 4th scale degree of this key, from C to C#, so that it can lead into the new tonic, D.
Each time you increase the number of sharps by one, you jump up a perfect fifth (from C to G, to D, to A, to E, to B, to F#, to C#, to etc.). So these keys are linked by what is called a "Circle of Fifths".
Go back to C Major. Try going through this process backwards. Instead of turning the 4th scale degree into the new leading tone by raising it, turn the current leading tone into the new 4th scale degree by lowering it. The leading tone of C Major is B, so lower it to Bb and the new key is F Major.
Repeat this process and you have the keys with flats in order: C, F, Bb, Eb, Ab, Db, Gb, Cb etc. Each time it goes up a perfect fourth, so it's called the Circle of Fourths. Personally, though, I simply think of it as going backwards on the Circle of Fifths, because that's essentially what it is. So arrange the keys in that way, jump up a perfect fifth every time, and you get: Cb, Gb, Db, Ab, Eb, Bb, F, C, G, D, A, E, B, F#, C#.
In fact, you could keep going, but it's all just enharmonic equivalents after that. Actually, some of those are already enharmonic: Cb and B are the same, Gb and F#, and Db and C#.
So that's why the key of Gb/F# is the worst of all keys, worse than C# and Cb. Because while Cb can be simplified from seven flats to five sharps (B), and C# can be simplified similarly (to Db), with F#/Gb you have to have those six sharps.
>>60262463
>how did your family member think of it?
He started talking about how amazing and detailed it was, but then later showed no intereest in exploring classical music at all.
>>60261347
>>Brian Ferneyhough
>Credited for creating New Complexity.
Aka credited for creating a lump of dog shit
>>60264647
oh damn big post, thanks.
I kinda knew some patterns like fcgdaeb and beadgcf, but thats the order of the sharps on the staff, not the beginning order of the keys. The minor keys are something new im learning in class and it looks like a whole new set of patterns to learn
seriously, i am so done with people giving standing ovations for fucking everything, it's god damn insulting to the performers
>>60258896
Messiaen - O Sacrum Convivium
Messiaen in general
>>60264821
I hate recordings where you have to hear one minute of applauses. I FUCKING HATE IT.
>>60264890
>3 minutes of applause
>>60264441
The grand staff is for when you intend for both staves to be performed by the same performer. Really, I have no concrete plans for this melody, and when I first came up with (the first four measures of) the melody I imagined it sung (thus the cantabile). The other part is the left hand part I've been using as a sort of dual purpose placeholder harmony and metronome while working on the melody. I still don't know if I'll even use it in the end (though to be honest I've actually rather liked how it's turned out so far) so I thought a grand staff would be too presumptuous at this point.
>>60264782
Well, really, the minor keys are easy to remember, if you know the major keys already. Any given (natural) minor key has the same key signature as the major key starting on the minor key's third scale degree (for example: The key of A minor is A, B, C, D, E, F, G, A. It has no sharps or flats, and so it has the same key signature as C Major).
If you know the order of major keys I gave earlier:
Cb, Gb, Db, Ab, Eb, Bb, F, C, G, D, A, E, B, F#, C#
The minor keys are simply those all lowered a minor third:
Ab, Eb, Bb, F, C, G, D, A, E, B, F#, C#, G#, D#, A#
These are called relative minor keys.
Now I assume the new sets of patterns you mention are not with the natural minor keys but with the harmonic and melodic minor keys. I'm going to give you simple and detailed explanation of these.
Short (you've probably heard this in class already):
A harmonic minor key is the same as the natural minor key, except you raise the 7th scale degree so that it becomes a leading tone.
A melodic minor key is also a natural minor key slightly modified. In the melodic minor key the 6th and 7th scale degrees are raised, but only going up the scale. On the way down they're lowered back.
>>60265547
Detailed:
Both of these types of minor keys are essentially just chromaticisms on the natural minor key (though some music theorists may fiercely disagree).
This is massively oversimplifying it, but the most powerful way you can make the listener aware of what key you are in is with the leading tone. It's called the leading tone because, in context, it has a powerful urge to resolve, to go up a half step to the tonic. This leading tone occurs naturally as the seventh scale degree in a major key (in C Major, it's B, for example), but the problem is that in a natural minor key it doesn't (in A natural minor, G is the seventh scale degree, and it doesn't feel nearly as drawn to A as G# would). So composers raise the seventh scale degree.
The harmonic minor scale is just a raised seventh because it's used as the basis for chords. The way the melodic minor scale is structured, "6 and 7 raised going up and lowered going down", is massive oversimplification. As its name implies, the melodic minor scale is what most minor melodies stick to, and the structure most are taught is simply an attempt to represent the fact that the 6th and 7th are sometimes raised depending on the situation.
Often those situations involve going up (resolving the raised 7th to the tonic) and going down (resolving the lowered 6th to the 5th scale degree), which is why people are taught that scale structure. But there are reasons you'd want to do the opposite, which is why this structure doesn't hold up very well.
Say you're in A minor and the melody is currently on E. If you head up with a lowered 6th and 7th, "E F G A", it almost sounds like the E was a leading tone that resolved to F, and the current implied tonal center is F. By going "E F# G# A" you would have firmly established A minor as your key, but you've instead avoided it. If, after going "E F G A", you went back down, "A G# F# E", you reestablish the G# leading tone, and A minor is reestablished.
>>60265547
>relative minor keys
oh i know this, relative major would be up 4 halfsteps/major third right?
i got harmonic n melodic down
>>60266279
I feel like im reading my teacher's lecture with the harmonic, but wasn't clear on melodic thnx
>>60261347
>>La Monte Young
>
>Credited for creating modern Minimalism.
>
>>Brian Ferneyhough
>
>Credited for creating New Complexity.
>
>>Arnold Schoenberg
>
>Credited for creating Serialism and the modern 12-tone technique with the atonal matrix.
>
>>Bela Bartok
>
>Credited for creating Ethnomusicology.
>
>>Claude Debussy
>
>Credited for creating musical Impressionism.
How many of these credits are actually deserved?
>>60268033
none. And creating something doesn't make you ahead of your time. creating something ahead of your time does.
>>60267621
You're welcome.
Also bump.
best mahler 5 recording?
>>60269629
pls
>>60269600
Walter
>>60269600
Would you guys explain Xenakis Pleiades to me?? Some video, or article about stochastic music? Thank you very much
>>60237881
Lol autism
>>60269600
Walter, Abbado, Karajan, it's shit tier Mahler though.
>>60271713
guessing you listened to the Kuniko meme classical album huh?
>>60271761
>guessing you listened to the Kuniko meme classical album huh?
Yes, but dont "get" it in full i think :) I thought i lose something, and may learn some theory to appreciate
>>60271844
read the liner notes, they are a good start. maybe read some interviews with xenakis too
http://www.kuniko-kato.net/en/project/ix-iannis-xenakis/
So how newbie friendly is /classical/? I was thinking of getting into art music and would like to ask some questions before I dive in so to speak
>>60272279
Of course you can ask anything you want here.
>>60272279
Dunno desu. I've never really had a proper conversation here, it's sort of difficult if you can't get into the jargon or the theory.
But if you ask recommendations based on what you have liked before, you'll get good replies. This is also a nice place to check whether some recording is good or not.
>>60272297
How is listening to and appreciating art music different from folk and pop music and can I do so without knowing music theory?
Should I start by listening to the biggest composers or is there a specific period I should go into?
Is it possible to browse RYM for classical or should I just give up on that? If it's possible, how do I do it?
How do you tag recordings of classical music in your library? (pertaining to performer, composer etc)
Also I would really like some recommendations for minimalist composers that aren't Steve Reich or Philip Glass
>>60272366
>Should I start by listening to the biggest composers or is there a specific period I should go into?
IMO this is tiresome and will fail like "start with the greeks" on /lit/.
Personally, I think it's easiest to start from somewhere you like. Like there's probably some composer you're into, so then listen to his contemporaries, or his teachers, pupils, whatever.
Or you might like a certain instrument. Find some concertos, do some digging. You don't have to do things in any order or follow any timeline. I remember getting into classical through Ravel, by chance, just really liked his string quartet and that made me want to search more.
>Also I would really like some recommendations for minimalist composers that aren't Steve Reich or Philip Glass
Wim Mertens
>>60272366
>How is listening to and appreciating art music different from folk and pop music and can I do so without knowing music theory?
You can completely appreciate the artistic and musical value of art music without knowing music theory. And basic music theory isn't that hard to understand really. You just need some good books or someone who can explain it to you.
>Should I start by listening to the biggest composers or is there a specific period I should go into?
In my opinion, getting into the biggest composers first is a good idea. That's how I got into classical. I don't really think going chronologically or listening to a specific period would be good for a beginner. And like the other anon already said, you can get good recommendations here based on what you've heard and liked before.
>Is it possible to browse RYM for classical or should I just give up on that? If it's possible, how do I do it?
It's tricky to browse RYM for classical. But, you can either browse by performer/conductor or by selecting the specific composition from a composer and trying different recordings based on the ratings or something similar.
>How do you tag recordings of classical music in your library? (pertaining to performer, composer etc)
Artist: <composer>
Track title: <composition name> <opus number> <movement name>
Album title: <composer's name> <the name of the piece or pieces on the album>
Album artist: <Performer>
>Also I would really like some recommendations for minimalist composers that aren't Steve Reich or Philip Glass
La Monte Young, Terry Riley, Arvo Pärt, Louis Andriessen, John Adams, Gavin Bryars.
>>60272601
Thanks a lot! This is exactly the response I was looking for.
>>60272647
>>60272442
Forgot to respond to you, thank you for helping.
>>60272647
Enjoy the amazing music.
Can you guys give me some symphony recommendations? I've already listened to Beethoven, Mozart, Mahler, Brahms and Tchaikovsky.
What are significant textural pieces before Chopin's op 32/1 (1837)?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tIZPrHl-kek
>>60274011
sibelius 2
berlioz fantastique
I'm going to listen to Bach's Goldberg Variations and Scriabin's 5th Sonata live in 2 hours.
>>60237553
In my experience it's usually played too slowly.
I'm gay. What's the best classical music for me?
>>60274861
Schubert
>>60274165
Oh that's right, Chopin invented textural music.
Have a good day now.
>>60274861
Harry Partch
>>60274861
Tchaikovsky
>>60274011
What did you like most?
More Classical: Haydn's London Symphonies
Romantic: Try Mendelssohn, Bruckner, Strauss, and Franck
>>60274861
Anything German.
>>60275116
Beethoven's symphonies are my favorite. Especially 3, 6 and 8.
>>60263871
most overrated movement imo
>>60276008
whats the most underrated mahler movement
>>60276113
Probably No. 3/VI.
>>60275269
pff, how can you not like the 7th symphony?
>>60276272
my nigga
>>60276286
Because the 8th is so much better and so much more radical than the 7th.
>>60276286
Also, he didn't imply he didn't like the 7th, just that he preferred 3, 6 and 8.
>>60275269
mah nigga
>>60276272
I've missed you bb
>>60276481
I'm still not ready to remorselessly being a useless piece of shit on 4chan yet, maybe come Christmas
>>60276513
*to go back to
>all the fedoras ITT
>>60276513
Yeah, I heard school was keeping you busy.
>>60261269
>5th
>late
Nigger do you even op. 135?
>>60253255
>We will never hear the actual Requiem Mass (KV 626) as Mozart intended
>Instead we got a dying alcoholic's half finished last work
Why live, it's still fucking amazing as it currently exists
Guitarist pleb here and somewhat beginner to the world of classical
What's the general consensus on Wagner? (And Tristan und Isolde specifically)
This dude goes hours at a time without fucking resolving and its very interesting how he manages to sustain tension and dissonance for so long with shit like the Tristan chord (Which by the way I don't understand how is any different from a m7b5 chord)
>>60264190
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tKpjJCvWxRg
>>60276748
Please don't talk about things you understand, regurgitated mush like
>This dude goes hours at a time without fucking resolving and its very interesting how he manages to sustain tension and dissonance for so long with shit like the Tristan chord
is cringe-worthy. I'll abstain from embarrassing you by asking you to explain these points in greater detail by referring to the concrete music.
>Which by the way I don't understand how is any different from a m7b5 chord
That's because the "Tristan chord" is not an isolated vertical entity (which, in terms of harmonic function, is always ambiguous) but rather several successive vertical entities that are irrevocably ambiguous, because depending on which pitches you consider accidental linear suspensions the harmonic function of the chord (i.e. its harmonic meaning, that is both its relation to its immediate resolution as well as to the overall tonic of A minor) changes. It's less of a chord than a harmonic motif, whose tonal ambiguity Wagner exploits to employ it in a variety of tonal contexts essentially untransposed (A minor in the prelude, C major at the beginning of Act III, B major in the final cadence - absurdly distant keys), prefigures atonal composition with sets or rows, where it is no longer the reference to a hierarchically superior tonic that ultimately determines the harmonic function, but rather the immanent qualities of the material employed, its sensual qualities, if you will. This, in return, is only viable because the Tristan chord/motif does not clearly express a single tonic. Instead, its affective content, its association with the drama becomes a major determinant of its musical meaning, as opposed to its harmonic function in a larger whole - tonality. In sum, it's what Wagner does with that ambiguous half-cadence that marks the radical break from tradition, together with the fact that the acts of Tristan do not end in the same tonic that they start in, not its harmonic ambiguity per se.
>>60277167
omg there's more to music than being complex omg you don't even really like music
>>60274011
>>60277306
>those interpretations
>>60277398
oh hey, have you heard klemp's vox Bruckner 4 with the Wiener Symphoniker?
it was posted on SS not too long ago and it's even faster than his already fast live recording in Cologne.
>>60277167
So are /classical/ tripfags the ultimate form of snobbery or what?
>>60277167
>A minor in the prelude
>C major at the beginning of Act III
>Absurdly different keys
>Saying that guy doesn't know what the fuck he's talking about
>>60274861
Britten
>>60277484
Ultimate forms of bad taste sometimes, as in Poly's case.
>>60277511
In relation to B major they are extremely remote (five sharps, one sharp short of the point of furthest remove), hence your quotation is factitious. Furthermore, even though C major and A minor are relative keys they are indeed absurdly different if you consider what this is all about, namely the transposition of the Tristan chord/motif. The fact that they have different tonic pitches makes the fact that this chord complex appears at the same pitch level unusual, the parallel major (i.e. A minor/A major) would be a lot less "remote" in that regard.
>>60277471
Downloading it as we speak, if I remember correctly that one uses an edition of the symphony I don't really like, because Klemperer had no access to the Nazi-sponsored critical (because many of the editors of and influences on earlier editions were Jewish) editions of that symphony in exile.
>>60277398
What's wrong with Schonwandt?
>>60277484
How is pointing out the fact that he's parroting opinions on Wagner while lacking the faculty to asses their validity (which he himself admitted) snobbish?
>>60277698
does it? i assumed it was the lowe edition, but i must confess that my knowledge of the differences in editions when it comes to the 4th aren't as good as, say, the differences between editions in the 8th and 9th.
anyway, it is still a really great listen in my opinion. an absolute rollercoster in speed.
>>60277757
sdf, you ugly son of a bitch, how've you been?!
Dude, I've been dying for you to show back up so I could ask:
you got a link to that Brahms Organ music, family? or a new link?
>>60277757
Because there's a way to get people who are obviously new to the things but eager to learn interested and being an autist isn't one of them
The fact alone that he knows what m7b5 chord is makes him more inclined to classical than 80% of the Death Grip memers on this board
>be jazz musician
>go to symphony for trumpet paginini variations / beethoven 7 / wagner prelude to die that was shit and tasteless and laughable
>wow the trumpet has great dynamics and execution but he sounds choked and afraid and quiet
>certainly not jazz
>how hard can playing something this grossly rehearsed be?
>solid 1/3 of the strings ever so slightly off time
>drives me absolutely insane the entire time
>old men and women not being aggressive enough, lack confidence
>they probably dismiss jazz
>welcome to the central valley
i love classical but srs the community, and an exceedingly large portion of the music, is stale and tired
>>60277707
It's not terrible, but hardly a first choice for the piece. Lush, string-heavy balances à la Karajan. Soft accents and exceedingly lax articulation of the motoric rhythms central to the work. Blomstedt has more drive, more precise, direct accents and all things considered doesn't smooth out the modernist edge the work has: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eT3zm6o2mB0
>>60277837
That's why I included a thorough explanation of what the Tristan chord is, in terms that he might understand.
>>60277927
So because you saw a shit performance and made a bunch of far reaching assumptions about people you don't know, everyone in the classical community is stale and tired?
You're a moron.
>>60277927
Cue the interview where Karajan says he must've been black in an earlier life and how he likes going to jazz concerts because there he can be certain that people will stick to a metronomic beat for an entire piece.
>>60277988
>>60278062
tfw celibidache will always be too slow for dubs
>>60278114
He's not slow enough. Cobra always gets dubs.
>>60278114
Here he comes
>>60278219
much too slow
>>60278241
>>60278241
>>60278270
even from the grave the Italimeme does it again
God dammit guys
>>60278284
>>60278292
What do conductors do exactly?
>>60278345
getting the timing just right for dubs
>>60278345
>>60278373
witness
>>60278345
Act as a catalyst for a unified interpretation of the score, lead and structure rehearsals, hear the sound of the orchestra from a point of listening none of the musicians has and modify it accordingly, provide a beat and signal cues, which is particularly necessary if large forces are used. Those are the basics.
Can he do it?
>>60278555
Based Rosbaud
hello rabidch btw
>>60278572
hello
>>60277784
Yay! It actually uses a version I like, the 1936 Haas one (Klemperer later used the Nowak edition). It's the Schalk version with it's cheesy doublings that I detest.
Karajan, ever the tasteless Bruckner conductor, still stuck to those when everyone else had already learned their lesson: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-9DoLPZfm5g#t=1m40s
>SDF is back
<3
Anyways, who's everyone's favorite not-Haydn Mozart contemporary?
>inb4 J.C. Bach
>>60278894
How to kill a thread 101
>>60278555
re-listened to his mahler 9th again for the first time in a very long time, and i forgot how much i liked it.
he has some very interesting rubato going on in some spots that i don't quite hear with anyone else.
>>60278639
neat
oh btw, i saw your own take on his missa solemnis, i thought you did a good job.
>>60279726
Once I've remastered the Beethoven #5 and #6 I'll upload the whole set.
Whats the static-y piece playing in the back of this video?
https://youtu.be/KN-EOf3Uk8I?t=30s
Its most likely a russian composer. I thought it was the finale of rach 3 for a while but I listened to the end closely and I don't think it is
>>60280017
tchaikovsky piano concerto 1
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P1nMPA7AfJ0#t=32m0s
>>60278894
I quite like Dittersdorf, even if he is pretty shit.
Probably Boccherini overall though.
>>60280104
Damn thats why it was so familiar. That should of been my first guess
>>60278894
soler
>>60240507
Mozart liked Pleyel a lot, judging from an excerpt of a letter he sent to his dad
>>60279819
what program do you use to remaster stuff
DUN DUN DUN DUN
>>60281588
i think he said he used har-bal, which is what i used to use as well
izotope is better
Stupid question: is each Contrapunctus a variation of the previous one?
>>60282917
Of course I'm talking about Bach here.
please rec some good underrated Chopin and Janáček.
>>60278292
you can't stop it, anon
Why is everyone ITT so bad at dubs?
>>60283355
damn leibowitz
>>60283355
fucking jewish dub magic
>>60237881
if you're sitting near the front, yeah i can understand the forced standing up, but if you're in the back, it's easier.
i think in general most orchestras don't usually spend a lot of time rehearsing orchestral works all together very often, most orchestras only get a few full rehearsals in before the actual performance. it's mostly up to the individual as well as the section leaders (if there are any) to at least make sure there are sectionals rehearsing outside of the actual rehearsals.
and that's for professional orchestras, don't get me started on music conservatories or university orchestras.
>>60283355
we'll see about that
>>60242327
>>60242424
OH GOD
this is so poorly written what the fuck learn how to make things neat jesus
>>60278639
M8 what do you think of that recent finding whereupon a vast number of purportedly atonal pieces (including some Schenberg works) were found to actually be in A minor?
>>60274861
Mozart
>>60274643
Fuq, how was the Scriabin, anon?
>>60268033
All of them. What did you ever create?
>>60274011
Ulvi Cemal Erkin - Symphony #1
>>60274861
Griffes
>>60286662
Many of those composers were part of a group of people doing similar things. none of them really invented the style themselves. Ethonumicology was a thing before bartok was around, and Kodaly probably got him into it anyway. Penderecki was doing complexity before Ferneyhough, Bach was doing 12 tone before Schoenberg (now THAT's being ahead of your time), Arguably Reich and Glass did more for inventing and defining minimalism than Young, Debussy was part of a group of guys like Satie and Ravel who were all going in the direction of the quiet sections in late Strauss and Mahler.
>>60286662
I walked Bob Dylan on stage.
>most active classical thread in weeks
>due to dub checking
Eh, I'll take it.
Anyone have any recommendations on stuff like The Rite of Spring by Stravinsky
I just listened to it and found it completely moving.
>>60288084
Petrushka, Firebird
Bartok -
Miraculous Mandarin
Quartet No. 4
Xenakis-
Jonchaies
>>60288290
tk u Senpai
is there a dress code for watching a classical performance or can i just wear anything?
I just got done listening to Berlioz' Symphonie Fantastique for the first time in years and the final movement blew me away with how dark sounding it was.
Is there any other classical compositions that have that sense of grim foreboding and doom?
Preferably a whole composition, instead of just a single movement of a piece.
>>60289400
But the example you cited was just one movement. I mean the movement before it is fairly grim, but I'd hardly call the third movement grim.
>>60289400
Ligeti Requiem. Schnittke concerto for piano and strings. Shostakovich 7
>>60288290
wow i gotta listen to more xenakis
>>60289576
There's 5 movements in it. The 5th movement is the dark part. I just listened to it, so I'm pretty sure.
>>60289596
Thanks buddy. I'm ready for some doom classical.
guys I want to listen to something earth-shattering tonight. reply with those pieces that have changed you as a human being.
>>60289866
Depends. How pleb are you?
